Mini Normal 1825 - Game Over

[House]

I'm not super happy with an rb wagon either, but if this boils down to a 1v1 between rb and BBT, rb will have to go.

Gonna read up on Dier today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Math/Dier are my lynch choices.

Either of those would be fantastic.

[House]

Math/Dier are my lynch choices.

Either of those would be fantastic.

Why Math? Because golden?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah mainly and because of his meta case on me.

[House]

Yeah mainly and because of his meta case on me.

Idk man, I think that's just bad meta but not necessarily scum action.

Math isn't coming across as scum to me, more like a puppy with a piece of petrified wood they think is a bone.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't think Math has done anything town like since his replace in.

He put a poor meta case on me (I know town can make bad cases) but that is seriously bad and felt pre-meditated.

I also don't get the Expedience scum reads.

[House]

@House

(one mentioned example, expressing suspicion of Naomi-Tan in 88 for mentioning Daytalk, works well as an illustration of what I mean--I would expect a Mafia player to actually check how Naomi-Tan knew this information before making the vote).

Why would a newbie mafia ask town how they knew the information when they already know that town can't know it except by the op since that player is not scum?

Experienced scum might be more likely to ask, in order to cover their own ass, but newbscum are more prone to tripping up on their own knowledge.

That's my point precisely! I am saying that RyanK asking Naomi-Tan how she knew about the number of Mafia players makes RyanK unlikely to be Mafia, because if RyanK were Mafia he would first go looking to answer that question himself.

Number of mafia players? That interaction was in regards to daytalk if I read it correctly. Where was the discussion about the number of mafia?

[House]

I don't think Math has done anything town like since his replace in.

Their*

I'll take another look at Math, but I think I'd prefer a Dier lynch at this point.

[House]

Math... If you think I'm town, you need to trust me and vote elsewhere.

If you think I'm scum, then vote me.

BBT is not the lynch today.

[House]

Math/Dier are my lynch choices.

Either of those would be fantastic.

BBT, what about a Dier wagon today, and if you still scum read Math tomorrow, I'll trust your read.

VOTE: Dierfire

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Dier

[MathBlade]

It's either town-cass with scum BBT or scum-cass with scum-BBT. Either way, you're the best lynch because I don't see a way that you're town here.

In both scenarios, BBT is assumed scum, but you say Cass is the best lynch?

What is this?

*looks at RB's posts*

*looks at lack of response*

*repeats*

*glares hard*

That was my fault, Math. I misread the context. He was interacting with BBT.

How is RB not responding to a post directed at him YOUR fault?

VOTE: House

[House]

It's either town-cass with scum BBT or scum-cass with scum-BBT. Either way, you're the best lynch because I don't see a way that you're town here.

In both scenarios, BBT is assumed scum, but you say Cass is the best lynch?

What is this?

*looks at RB's posts*

*looks at lack of response*

*repeats*

*glares hard*

That was my fault, Math. I misread the context. He was interacting with BBT.

How is RB not responding to a post directed at him YOUR fault?

VOTE: House

It's not. The question is my fault because rb is interacting with BBT and I misunderstood it as him scumreading Cass.

My question was out of context.

[House]

It's either town-cass with scum BBT or scum-cass with scum-BBT. Either way, you're the best lynch because I don't see a way that you're town here.

In both scenarios, BBT is assumed scum, but you say Cass is the best lynch?

What is this?

I said BBT was best lynch.

My mistake. Thanks!

See? He responded before you echoed my question.

[MathBlade]

I don't care if you asked him if the sky was green in Spanish and then translated into binary.

The point is RB should have responded and didn't.

You apologizing for the lack of response is suspect.

[MathBlade]

Oh I just missed it VOTE: Unvote

[Saru]

The short version is that in 659 (and onward), rb makes a visible attempt to read over things again, and adjusts reads in a manner that I found to be consistent with taking a fresh look to sort alignments.

Fair enough.

You'd also asked whether it bothered me to see votes accumulating on golden009 (now MathBlade). It didn't! I've previously encountered this line of thought, but in general I feel good when other players want to vote the same player that I do.

Except you seem to missing where I said that you had voted golden for re-hashed reasoning from D1(which ok, that's fine), but if that's the case, why wouldn't you give the slot time to respond to the accusations you had made against it on D1? Do you really think that your vote was going to be the difference between a replacement answering your questions or not?

The defining feature of Saru's game, for me, is his persistent suspicion of me. The initial vote for me in 189 on the basis that my early vote was weaker than my votes in previous games was fairly thoughtless. We argued for a long time before I was able to communicate what was going on.

No, it wasn't "fairly thoughtless." You hadn't explained your position very well at that point, and multiple people were questioning your reasoning. We had come out of that argument with a more clear picture of why you voted the way you did in the early stages of a game, but it still doesn't mean that the vote itself didn't look contrived and forced.

I thought that we were finally on the same page in 1158, but by 1465In 1568 Saru is inordinately suspicious of my 1557--although some of this is attributable to the usual misunderstandings, the accusation that my read on rb is a result of rb reading me as Town during their recent argument (having spent a good portion of the game focused on my entrance and the read on rb as Town within), reads to me like an attempt to fake suspicion.

What? No. This is a terrible mis-rep of what I was saying. Actually, it's not AT ALL what I said. Quote for me where I said that I thought you were town reading rb because he was town reading you. I didn't. Don't put words in my mouth. Your town read of rb seemed to come from D1 only, and the fact that you love it when people go back and re-evaluate their reads, it didn't match up to me that you'd leave a strong town read as it were from just early D1 reasoning. Now that you made it clear that, that wasn't your only reasoning(after I prompted you about it), it makes more sense.

When rb mentions Saru (1514 says that Saru is either Town or lurking Mafia), Saru calls this a contradiction. This is also a fairly bad line of reasoning, for reasons that have been elaborated already (rb had other reasons to read me as Town, my activity was appreciably higher than Saru's even when taking into account the fact that Saru makes larger single posts while I make multiple shorter posts, rb didn't say that Saru was lurking Mafia), but seems to have cleared up since.

IT IS a contradiction because your activity was NOT much more higher than mine. "Appreciable?" LMFAO! You came in once a day and gave reads and answers to questions like you always do. I came in and gave reads and answers to questions from multiple days at one time, which is why I had walls going. There's no real difference there, except that I had to spread myself out more due to RL as I stated previously. The funny part is, you haven't even been responding to people in real-time. I had done this with rb. This makes it so easy for coasting scum such as yourself to come up with what you're going to say next to someone who might be scum reading you.

And even if you can make the argument that your post count was higher than mine, you'd be missing the whole point of my argument with rb which was that it wasn't about raw post count, but of the content within those posts that rb seemed to take issue with initially. According to him, I was coming in and giving thoughtful posts and then just bowing out. I contended that you've done the same exact thing, but apparently that point went out the window for....reasons?? Yeah...no. That argument has still not been "cleared up," as I still take issue with that contradiction. I just decided to leave it behind because I see rb as town right now, and getting into wall wars with town is what I did in Mini 1800, and that didn't end well for me.

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

1. Mathblade is likely town here. One thing I noticed from Mini 1800, was that it seemed like an inherent part of Math's scum game to be using people to their advantage. Basically, talking to or questioning people in a way to get them to do their bidding for them. I don't see that from Math here at all. They seem so much more genuine about things in general, and it doesn't seem like they're trying to mislead people.
2. This is just rb being rb. As for BBT, I don't get why he doesn't want to explain things. I understand that he's done this before as town, but I'm not entirely sure what his reasoning is here. He needs to start explaining. I walk away from that argument as still rb town and BBT null scum.
3. Expedience is town. Your argument against him makes 0 sense to me. Yes, his choice to vote you right off the bat(with false reasoning) looks bad, but not scummy. The reason it isn't scummy is because after I pointed out that what he was saying about you wasn't true, he reconsidered and voted elsewhere. That wasn't a "scum-claim" as you called it. There's nothing wrong with people changing their minds. Town can do it, and so can scum.

I want to discuss things more with MathBlade, but I suspect that I will end up reading her as Town for reasons that I will discuss afterward.

How about you discuss them right now? Since when did town!Dierfire hide reasoning like this? This pings me hard.

You "treat it as a towntell"... and yet... I'm your top scum read... who you are not currently voting, or pushing at all... yeah. Instead, you've been on whatever the biggest wagon of the day was, in every single vote count... yeaaahhhhh.

Believe me, I am dying to drink this Kool-Aid; it sounds like the tastiest I've ever had.

Unfortunately for you, I'm not about that life. #staywoke

If Expedience has you as a top scum read, but isn't voting you because he was/is voting golden, isn't that the point of his compromise? Like, Expedience has said that he's compromising, and you seem to think he's lying, but then you say "oh you're not voting me but instead you're voting the biggest wagon!" Yeah, because he's compromising. Duh.

Dierfire needs to be lynched. This is not his town game. His read of me is full of assumptions and mis-reps. town!Dierfire also doesn't hide reasoning. He admitted himself that he makes it clear how and why he feels something about someone, but then says he'll give his reasons for town!Math at a later point.

The Ryan slot has also had zero attention on it since the end of D1, and Ryan did nothing to progress the game at all, at any point. Not lynching him because "lol newb" is terrible reasoning. His posts look like forced playing up of the VI card, and guess what, it's been working on some people. Remember when Ryan said his play from D1 wouldn't continue into D2? Guess what, it did. And no one bothered to question it.

House's entry into the game is solid, but @House: why do you think Dierfire is scum? You didn't really say.

[House]

House's entry into the game is solid, but @House: why do you think Dierfire is scum? You didn't really say.

I'll get into this more tonight, but a lot of it is because my top townread wants him or Math lynched, and I'm not seeing Math scum whereas I'm not all that enthused about my ISO on Dier.

[rb]

I don't care if you asked him if the sky was green in Spanish and then translated into binary.

The point is RB should have responded and didn't.

You apologizing for the lack of response is suspect.

Huh, what'd I miss?

[rb]

I'm not lynching BBT.

End of story.

Those of you screaming for his head need to remember that there is more than one reason for anti-town play besides drawing a scum role pm.

So what's the town motivation for BBT's play then?

[rb]

Because I think you need to understand that you're being really obvious right now because you're pretty much admitting that BBT is being really anti-town and therefore you think he's town?

You're not applying any pressure for him to shape up, despite agreeing he's being anti-town?

You've quoted multiple posts of mine and even said they were strong townie posts, while admitting BBT is being anti-town, but if it 'comes down to it' you think it's me who should be lynched?

House and BBT are scum.

[rb]

Also I have no idea who House replaced, I missed it.

[rb]

Oh ROFL it's gameplays slot.

Can we just kill BBT + House now? Thanks.

[House]

12+72-(13*92)+19-60 = BBT town

[rb]

I'll do either one first.

Chuck stop being a dickface and DO SOMETHING