Mini 499: Just Your typical Mafia Game GAME OVER!!!!!!!!

[somestrangeflea]

Sorry guys. I seem to be falling out of some of my games recently. This isn't the only game of mine to suffer. I won't reference specific games, but if you browse around you'll find them easily enough...

Cicero, I don't think it's fair that you agree with me that Jester's death is a null tell, before telling Skruffs that its not a town tell, and then maintaining that is is a scum tell.

Pwayne, your 858 isn't an analysis. You've summarized my posts and added some top notch sarcasm, but this:

(INTERUPTION:WHo is thesp anyway?)

seems to be the only thing you've actually added...

Thesp wrote an essay about the severe brokenness of the Nurse role, which I attempted to apply here.

Such as in the case I initially made against you which interested parties can read by using the drop down menu and reading my posts on the subject starting at my 19, 21 and particularly 23. Incidentally clicking the tiny white square in the upper left of any post will open the whole thread so you can see things in context.

I see. I think we're going to have to agree that we are at an impasse with regards to that situation. I saw AlyG's vote as having scummy logic behind it, you disagree and find me scummy for bandwagonning and OMGUSing. [/argument]

Who do you like in the Pwayne vs. Skruffs argument and why? What do you think of Skruffs overall? What do you think of White? Who do you think are scum in this game - and why?

For your first Q, please link me to what you're referring to. I assume you can remember where it is...

For your other 3, I'll reread the thread soon and answer. I hope...

@SSF- What I see right off the bat is intentional lurking and a flippant attitude towards it. Several "joking" OMGUSs also. These are basic scumtells but you seem to do them deliberately. Why?

Lurking - there's a huge difference between intending to do something and

wanting

to do something. I intend to go to work tomorrow, but I don't want to...
I felt I've made it clear that, at the time in question (around pages 6-10, IIRC), the lurking was intentional due to the nature of the conversation at the time. I wanted to post, but felt it would be unproductive and distracting from the topic at hand.
OMGUS - Different reasons for different votes. Find me specific votes you're interested in please!

It is worth mentioning that while doing his PBPA, flea is responsible for 3 of our 35 pages. Nearly 10% and more than his share of the 12 people would require. But compared to me (5) pages and Cicero (7), SSF is lurking.

I don't think it's fair to pick out 2 specific people to compare me to. Compared to the game as a whole, I'm fairly active, you said so yourself. Why is it that I'm scummy simply because I haven't been keeping up with you and cicero?

I agree with cicero that mod-kills and deadlines are needed soon. I realise that I'm being anti-town, but I am always more pro-game than pro-alignment.

TS's entry to the game was... different, to say the least. Advocating your own lynch can never be a good thing...

Mod Edit

Vote Count

HackerHuck- 2 (Toaster Strudel, shaka!!)

pwayne66- 1 (Skruffs)
Toaster Strudel- 1 (cicero)
White- 1 (HackerHuck)


Not Voting- 4 (ChocolateAttack, pwayne66, somestrangeflea, theopor_COD)

5 to lynch

[pwayne66]

Pwayne, your 858 isn't an analysis.

You are right. HH already pointed this out. To which I responded with 871. That is analysis.

[quote="SSF"I don't think it's fair to pick out 2 specific people to compare me to. Compared to the game as a whole, I'm fairly active, you said so yourself. Why is it that I'm scummy simply because I haven't been keeping up with you and cicero?[/quote]

You must have misunderstood. I used Cicero and myself, two of the heaviest posters, to justifiy why we might think that you are lurking. I point out, however that you have contributed more than your share so that that perception (that you are lurking) might not be that acurate.


There seems to be several people concerned with your lurking and your OMGUSing (at the very least, cicero, HH and I). Your best defense is to say: "Find me specific votes you're interested in please!" I'm curious about them all.

[cicero]

I dont care as much about people's number of posts as I do the content of their posts. Flea, you can up your post count but except for the AlyG attack and some counter-attacks on me, I don't see a lot of content, suspicions, whatever. You are consistently not engaged. You appear to be avoiding making enemies for purpose of maximum survivability.

[DrippingGoofball]

You appear to be avoiding making enemies for purpose of maximum survivability.

This is not always a strategy used by scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

You appear to be avoiding making enemies for purpose of maximum survivability.

This is not always a strategy used by scum.

Sorry ^^^

Mixed up my two logins again. The above post was mine.

[cicero]

Why do you play with two accounts?

[Toaster Strudel]

Why do you play with two accounts?

To try out different playstyles and strategies without being overly metagamed.

[Skruffs]

Cicero:
Doesn't want to lynch "TOwnspeople" - Gorgon was a townsperson. (Nickname, not role)
Goes ahead to vote "townperson". Drops thoughts that "Obvious fruit" (read: easy lynch) is town when obvious lynch is replaced by more experienced player - and then begins to want to lynch that player for actions that he previously stated was coming from town player.

Maintains vote on Day 1 lynch while 'pleading' with them to give a 'good' reason for him to unvote. Player claims role due to Cicero's taunting.

Clears Gorgon day one: Day two, avoids discussion even though he is one of the main points after beign slapped for craplogic re: me, and goes back to a wagon that seemed strong day one. Doesn't take alignments of dead players into account, ignores speculation.

I don't die, which would have led back to Cicero. Instead, someone Cicero stated was

Cicero's explanation for his chumminess with you:
"The other thing to address is the "chumminess" with Pwayne. Truth is there really is none. We were in Newbie 436 together. Fought a lot. Largely over my noobie play. Then in our very next game ended up together. Both of us have a social and strategic interest in avoiding starting off being antagonistic even if play ultimately puts us there. So some burying the hatchet went on. We aren't suspecting each other right now because I dont think Pwayne has shown any scum tells and

my play in this game he finds consistant with last game where I ended up townie.

"

Town should be more worried about FINDING SCUM, not 'appearing town'. That's maybe my own personal opinion, but it will be on SCUM'S mind to 'fit in' - just look at Gorgon's play.

THere's more. Lots more. ANd most of it has been said. Instead of acknowledgin it, you''re demanding it be said again. Which, again, jsut goes to show that you have no intentions of looking at cicero. And that's scummy.


As for not including SSF, I thought there were only nine players. I posted everyone that I could think of, and I guess SSF wasn't one of them. That's what I get for having a cell phone in a very bad reception area.

I don't know what to think of ssf - what is the case on him again?

[cicero]

As for not including SSF, I thought there were only nine players. I posted everyone that I could think of, and I guess SSF wasn't one of them. That's what I get for having a cell phone in a very bad reception area.

I don't know what to think of ssf - what is the case on him again?

How on earth can you have an opinion on Cicero WITHOUT thinking about Somestrangeflea? Preposterous.

[shaka!!]

This game has gone on so long I can't even remember if I've been under any scrutiny at all. Any one care to remind me?

[shaka!!]

Also, I'm pretty sure we all know how to hunt scum. But what if we get the scum tonight and we are left with the vig and the sk? Do we hunt them the same way as scum or are their signature tells for those classes and such?

That thought just popped into my head.

[pwayne66]

THere's more. Lots more. ANd most of it has been said. Instead of acknowledgin it, you''re demanding it be said again. Which, again, jsut goes to show that you have no intentions of looking at cicero. And that's scummy.

All right. I suppose that the first reason that I have not considered your arguements against cicero is this: A good deal of it seems to be new to this post, at the very least, I can't find a mention of it in the last month. The majority of your posts have been directed at the connection between me, cicero and Gorgon.

Doesn't want to lynch "TOwnspeople" - Gorgon was a townsperson. (Nickname, not role)
Goes ahead to vote "townperson". Drops thoughts that "Obvious fruit" (read: easy lynch) is town when obvious lynch is replaced by more experienced player - and then begins to want to lynch that player for actions that he previously stated was coming from town player.

I agree that this is odd. It's not new to me, as this seems to be an extension of Cicero's philosophy in our previous game... where him and I fought, among other things, about his insistance that scumtells are not a good means to find scum. This position just struck me as him refining his position. I'm not defending him and I don't necassarily agree 100% with him, but I don't see it as evidence of a mafia conspiracy. Incidently, I haven't ignored this as being your case. I went back and the last mention I saw of this was three weeks ago. I don't see how not responding to a comment made 3 weeks ago is scummy.

Maintains vote on Day 1 lynch while 'pleading' with them to give a 'good' reason for him to unvote. Player claims role due to Cicero's taunting.

I'll have to look back to see what you are refering to here as far as a needing a good reason to unvote. I will have to review the roleclaim as well. I don't recall feeling that Cicero was to blame, but I might be wrong.

Clears Gorgon day one: Day two, avoids discussion even though he is one of the main points after beign slapped for craplogic re: me, and goes back to a wagon that seemed strong day one. Doesn't take alignments of dead players into account, ignores speculation.

Again, I need to review this. I know he cleared Gorgon, but I can't remember him avoiding discusion. I assume that you meant the fleawagon. A wagon that Cicero practically built and maintains. I don't see that as a strike against him. The rest, I need to check on as well.

I don't die, which would have led back to Cicero. Instead, someone Cicero stated was

I have addressed this one. I have said this issue seems to be a strike against cicero either way. If you die it leads back to cicero. If you don't die, it leads back to cicero. This isn't evidence this a booby trap in disguise.

Cicero's explanation for his chumminess with you:
"The other thing to address is the "chumminess" with Pwayne. Truth is there really is none. We were in Newbie 436 together. Fought a lot. Largely over my noobie play. Then in our very next game ended up together. Both of us have a social and strategic interest in avoiding starting off being antagonistic even if play ultimately puts us there. So some burying the hatchet went on. We aren't suspecting each other right now because I dont think Pwayne has shown any scum tells and my play in this game he finds consistant with last game where I ended up townie. "

Town should be more worried about FINDING SCUM, not 'appearing town'. That's maybe my own personal opinion, but it will be on SCUM'S mind to 'fit in' - just look at Gorgon's play.

I'm not sure where you get "even if play ultimately puts us there." this nugget. I'm quite sure that the exact opposite was stated.

THere's more. Lots more. ANd most of it has been said. Instead of acknowledgin it, you''re demanding it be said again. Which, again, jsut goes to show that you have no intentions of looking at cicero. And that's scummy.

When I go back and do the reread of the Cicero accusations, I'm going to note when you last stated them (it seems to be nearly a month ago) and note who else responded to them. I think this will clarify everything. Had you reiterated your case when I asked you to, rather than calling me scum for not going back a month ago to weed through your feelings of Cicero, I doubt we would be having this quibble.

[cicero]

Skruffs: I find it quite hypocritical - and disingenuous - of you to on one hand repeatedly attack Pwayne for being unwilling to look at me, while on the other hand you are doing exactly the same thing by pointedly refusing to look at Somestrangeflea. Anytime you're ready to cut the crap, you let me know.

Mod - request replacement or modkill of Theopor. Also request firm deadline. I have no interest in spending the rest of my life in Mini 499

[Skruffs]

Cicero, pwayne attacked me right after I started my case against you. He gives me the run around for weeks and then writes off the case he pretends not to have even noticed by saying, first, 'I'll need to review before commenting" then dismissing the entire case by saying 'most of these things are from WEEKS ago!'

Also interesting, it's hypocritical for me to ignore your discussion of ssf when you've been ignoring the discussion of yourself. Why am I going to pay attention to an argument brought up by someone who initiated it by saying there was nothingelse to go on? More importantly, why am I going to give weight to an argument that detracts from my own line of questioning, considering that the person who started it has been on my top list of scum all day and is the person that my line of questioning is focused on?



The only way I can see you both as being town is if you are masons, and that is unlikely, at best.

[ChocolateAttack]

Pwayne: what are you trying to accompolish? You seem to be ignoring the case I have made and using the 'gorgon, pwayne, and cicero never directly talked to each other' part of it. What's odd to suggest about that? How do you normally act as scum towards scumbuddies?

Cicero- you don't want shaka to ask for a replacement, but you (half-jokingly) want him modkilled? Why would you suggest eliminating 4 people at once, potentially putting town in an unwinnable situation: 2 mafia and 1 sk w/ no power roles?
Fos. Also - who else would you say is "def town" like gorgon was? If you're not going to posit who think is scum and instead just death death death, at least say who you think isn't scum.


Ts: the remaining scum? Do you mean other than yourself? Also, nice to play with you again


Mod- I would say no modkills please.


My scumlist: pwayne, cicero, hacker huck

Less scummy:
Choc.att., ts, shaka

Not on the scumdar:
Theopor, skruffs

My feeling is that it is likely a 3 person scumgroup.
I don't see how a vig would affect it's size

No offense but this post suck, your scumdar is crappy. You list the people as scum and less scum but you have no reasons to adress why you think they scum or not.
Why do you listed yourself on the "not on the scumdar" list. That is really scummy and stupid.
Theo is not on your scumdar? Hey! did you hack into the forum and change your join day to 2 years ago so you can look pro?

[Skruffs]

Cicero, stop begging to have the mod do your dirty work for you.
What would be beneficial about having theo modkilled? Do you particularly think he is scummy? If not, why the eagerness to have him (and the others) eliminated?

Do you really think mini499 is going to take 'the rest of your life' to finish? If so, why? Do you have a terminal illness? Were you not aware that minigames take longer than a month or two to complete? Do you have some sort of forum-based add? Are you tryng to subtly goad a quick lynch on ssf? Has a large centipede climbed into and begun performing a traditional polka tambernade along the inner lining of your upper colon? Are you exploiting the knowledge that the mod will modkill players to push for more deaths that you can't be held responsible for? Is it a distraction from the ssf attack that you apparently have forgotten the reasoning behind?


Please tell me. I'm really very curious.

[Skruffs]

Chocolate attack:
I'm sorry that my scum list is not up to par to your standards. Maybe you should post one the way you think it should be done; I don't remember seeing from you.


And actually you are close, I joined in 2005 but didn't play until late 2006. I've never claimed to be good, but in every game, players (usually scum, I think) drag that out and show it off. That, and the 'skruffs is acting strangely, even for skruffs', which I also get a lot (and, so far, entirely as town... I only go unnoticed as scum, for trooth)

I'm not claiming those as metas on me, just something I've noticed about games I am in.

[pwayne66]

... also don't like something cicero did around page 10, but it has slipped my mind. Dadmn, oh, now i remember

asking how many mafia re in a mini fos fos fos. First of all, there's no set number - and asking that strikes me as an attempt to look like an innocent newb who has no idea...

Okay.

Cicero- would you just like to have a mass claim? You seem to be rolehunting more than scumhunting.

My biggest beef against Cicero is the contradictions he seems to do, obliviously, at almost every turn. Here's a couple of them, but I am sure, if I looked harder, I could find more.

Skruffs lists a contradiction (it seems odd) that cicero has with SSF:


SSS-"I find it quite poor that you've actually stopped looking for any other suspects, and further evidence against me, and have simply begun "parking" your vote on me when you have nothing else to do."

Cicero-"This could SO TOTALLY be an important and relevant (if easily rebuttable) criticism if it had come from someone who had deigned to do any scumhunting at all."

Skruffs thinks that this is contradictory because: "This is contradictory by it's very nature. I would consider that statement by SSF to have some relevance - and so would you, apparently - but you are discarding it because you don't think SSF is scum hunting. But if you think it's relevant, then you do think he's scum hunting. So why did you disregard it? "

...okay? I might be capable of seeing that cicero didn't address this issue ...so ask him again. If you think that cicero is just parking his vote on SSF ask him about it. You never mentioned it again.


You go on to make two more example neither of which you follow up on, nor mention again and both seemed to be using over extended logic.

How do you know what would make the game balanced or not? You used that as a reason, you used the 'backup backup backup doc' idea, and you seem to be insinuating that it's skitzer's fault he's being lynched while at the same time being supportive without giving him and options to redeem himself. If he turns up town, I will be going after you tomorrow.

I don't really understand what is being said here...

Mafia could have killed me (that's what skitzer said Cicero-scum would do) and put a target on cicero for it. Course, that might also be too obvious. Also, if cicero IS mafia, that would be bad for him to do. Not liking Cicero's backtracking re: gorgon.

I never got around to asking, why does it matter what skitzer said cicero would do if he were scum? What backtracking are you talking about.


So now that you have revamped your case, lets look:

Doesn't want to lynch "TOwnspeople" - Gorgon was a townsperson. (Nickname, not role)
Goes ahead to vote "townperson". Drops thoughts that "Obvious fruit" (read: easy lynch) is town when obvious lynch is replaced by more experienced player - and then begins to want to lynch that player for actions that he previously stated was coming from town player.

Stated. Addressed. Ignored for three weeks. I am scummy for ignoring this weak assed arguement... and so is everybody else...hell Skruffs, by your definition everybody is scummy but you. Interesting...

Maintains vote on Day 1 lynch while 'pleading' with them to give a 'good' reason for him to unvote. Player claims role due to Cicero's taunting.

Skruffs never brought this up until now. Now I am scummy for failing to read his mind.

Clears Gorgon day one: Day two, avoids discussion even though he is one of the main points after beign slapped for craplogic re: me, and goes back to a wagon that seemed strong day one. Doesn't take alignments of dead players into account, ignores speculation.

Never did find this except the clearing of Gorgon... of course skruffs has no interest in backing his case up...

You have tried to lynch cicero for every stupid thing that you can find, none of which amounts to jack. The only thing you have ever followed up on is his chumminess with me and Gorgon and his not lynching town thing.

You have snarled and tortured everybody that has disagreed with you, or asked you to clarify your position.

You have never expressed any interest in me until I voted for you. Now I am the cornerstone of your case. That is OMGUS at its best.

You have insisted that I have ignored your case where in reality, you have never said half the things that you say you have said.

You have said that I am scum because I don't agree with your case. I see nobody agreeing with your case. Yet you don't accuse them of being scum.

Vote: Skruffs

You are being distracting. You have used crap logic to justify your vote on me. You are OMGUSing me. You are inconsistant with applying your scumtells. You were suspicious Gorgon but voted for everybody but him. You voted to lynch a claimed power role after you said that we shouldn't. You are the scummiest player in the game right now.

[cicero]

Skruffs: Your focus on me is as tiresome to me as I'm sure my focus on flea is to him. And you clearly aren't convincing anyone else in here but here's what you can do:

Option one: In one post - outline a list of numbered questions for me. I will answer them directly.

Option two: In the alternative, summarise your case against me with accusations and PbP analysis in order to convince the town and give me something to answer.

Option three: If you think that's bullshit feel free to direct me to the post numbers of some crucial posts that contain salient posts that you think I've ignored and I'll respond to those.

If, however, you have decided I'm scum and none of my answers will be believed by you I'd rather not waste my energy. So I'd like a commitment from you that you'll read any answers I give. Because so far anything I have to say gets dismissed.

Basically, if your case against me had any traction I might get more worked up about it but so far you aren't convincing anyone and I'm not going to climb through the mess of posts you made

in order to organise your case against me for you

.

Mod: This concerns you

As for questions about the modkilling: Theo was a lurker the whole game. Is it entirely possible that sitting in that empty seat is either the serial killer or Gorgon's sole mafia partner. In fact it is entirely possible that the partnership was Skruffs, Gorgon, Theopor. While that seat is empty, in my view, the game is already broken. So I either want someone sitting in that chair that I can analyse or I want to take my chances with getting it out of the game. If it comes up town, that's unfortunate but hardly unworkable. We have one dead scum already and I could then eliminate Theo as a suspect. If he comes up scum then yay for town, we have a happy Cicero. Either way I'll live.

As for the deadline: this game needs one because it's going around in circles. It isn't really moving forward. Personally, I think all games should have deadlines. Meta me in mafia discussion and you'll see. But this one clearly needs it.

I'm also concerned about the opposite problem happening. This game will go on forever and someone will end up lynched randomly due to sheer exhaustion.

No centipedes were harmed in the making of this opinion.

[Skruffs]

Oh, pwayne, you poor thing.
I will have a much longer response for you and cicero's almost identical treatment of me a bit later, but first, I want to note that:

Your first vote was because I thought gorgon was suspicious (distancing)
And your second seems to be because
A) I think cicero is scummy even though nobody else agrees with me (probably because most of the players who would agree with me have already been killed)
And
B) I think "everyone is scummy" - which is curious that you think being sceptical of everyone is scummy, considering you only seem to be suspicious of one person at a time, but write off other people day 1.
And
C) you ignore or discredit everything I say to the extent of talking with others, while calling me 'distracting', though I am not so distracting as to keep you from arguing cicero's case for him? You have (I think) been consistently mischaracterizing me ever since I voted you, saying that I am full of crap logic, etc. It doesn't offend me that you think my logic is full of crap, I think it's interesting how invested you are in attacking me for doing my version of scum hunting, where almost all of the posts you have done have been reactionary.


Cicero - what makes you think that theopor is tied to either me or gorgon? It's interesting that you never even suggested that he was scum until I asked you why you were so hard up to get so many people killed as quickly as possible. And yet even though you are suggesting he's scum with me and gorgon, you haven't tried to tie ssf to gorgon, whereas I have done at least some attempt (even if you think it's crappy) to see who gorgon was tied to, distancing from, etc.


Pwayne, your playstyle is beginning to erode. How you played yesterday vs today is different, definitely. You seem more stressed out today.

[cicero]

Skruffs, you really need to learn to read for comprehension. I'm not making a case that Theopor is probably tied to you and Gorgon. I'm raising it as a theoretical possibility.

I honestly don't know if you are deliberately mischaracterising me to try to make your case stick or if this is all just really that hard for you?

[ChocolateAttack]

Chocolate attack:
I'm sorry that my scum list is not up to par to your standards. Maybe you should post one the way you think it should be done; I don't remember seeing from you.


And actually you are close, I joined in 2005 but didn't play until late 2006. I've never claimed to be good, but in every game, players (usually scum, I think) drag that out and show it off. That, and the 'skruffs is acting strangely, even for skruffs', which I also get a lot (and, so far, entirely as town... I only go unnoticed as scum, for trooth)

I'm not claiming those as metas on me, just something I've noticed about games I am in.

Well, if you want to call that a scum list then i have nothing to say. I did have a scumdar but that was in the early game. The reason i don't like your scumdar is it content-less. And why do you refer yourself as a third person in the scumdar by listing your name down. That is distracting.

Theo is scummy because he lurked and his scumdar on Gorgon. As i went back to reread his posts. He posted his scumdar with a fos and not fos content on Gorgon and never talk about him again until Gorgon got kill. After Gorgon mafia role got revealed then he came up with an analysis on HOW SCUMMY GORGON WAS.

One thing i still haven't figure it out yet is between you and Theo, who is the scum?

I would prefer Theo replacement but if no one replace him then a mod kill would be ok too. This game has been a really long game for just 2 days.

[cicero]

Cicero's Quick and Dirty Summary of Mini 499 on Page 38

Skruffs: Cicero is scum!
All: Meh.
Pwayne: Meh. Cicero doesn't look all that scummy to me.
Skruffs: Well then... you're scum!!!
ChocolateAttack: Skruffs you're a newb. and an idiot.


Shaka: Not really sure what's going on in here, but can we lynch Hackerhuck (who used to be Kakeng, who used to be Battlemage and who I think made a case against Cicero that made no sense long long ago?)
All: Nah, we're not feeling it.
Cicero: Kakeng called himself town in the discussion thread and Battlemage is just nuts.
All: Meh.
Shaka: I knew I shoulda put my boot up your ass! (sorry Shaks. Had to add that in).


Cicero: Let's lynch somestrangeflea!
Huck: Flea is scummy but I'd rather lynch strudel who used to be white.
Pwayne: Meh... I could go with a Flea lynch but I don't really do the whole "voting thing in this game".
Flea: This game isn't worth my time or attention.


Huck: Let's lynch White!
All: ehhhh?.... who's the old dude in the beard?


Toaster Strudel: Let's lynch eenie meenie miney mo! bleblableblableeee. I like pie!
Cicero: What the fuck?


ChocolateAttack: My english not good. I post more later. Sorreeey! <3 <3
All: Looks townie to us.


Theopor_D: beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
Cicero: Call Time of Death at 2:30pm
Skruffs: SCUM!!!


Oh - and from the vault:

White: Cicero! Flea! Don't make me pull this car over!
Cicero: You wan't a fuckin' piece of me?
White: Yeah, I want a fuckin' piece of you!
Cicero: C'mon!!

Later, White would mysteriously disappear. Never to be heard from again.

FOS Cicero

Am I missing anything?

[pwayne66]

And your second seems to be because

And my game is eroding?

You are being distracting. You have used crap logic to justify your vote on me. You are OMGUSing me. You are inconsistant with applying your scumtells. You were suspicious Gorgon but voted for everybody but him. You voted to lynch a claimed power role after you said that we shouldn't. You are the scummiest player in the game right now.

I, unlike you have expressed exactly why I am voting you. I, unlike you have discredited every claim you have leveled. You, unlike me, have no reason to speculate, reiterate, paraphrase or otherwise guess at my intentions.

[Skruffs]

Yes I do, Pwayne. I'm town, and I want to kill scum.
So that means I have every reason to speculate, reiterate, paraphrase, guess or otherwise
RUMINATE
about every single player in this game and what I think of them. SOrry if that puts a wrench in your plans.


Cicero - you only raised the possibility of it after I asked why you kept trying to get him modkilled. WHy would you raise it as a possibility at all if you weren't even really considering it? saying someone should be modkilled, they should be modkilled, they should be modkilled, adn then when asked why you bluster out a "Well... he might be SCUM... with GORGON! And this guy who's on my back. Yeah."
Sorry, if you had just said "He should be modkilled because the role is empty", maybe I wouldn't think you were just looking for death, but when you then start saying he's likely scum AFTER you ask for him to be modkilled, you are basically tellnig me that you are, in fact, just trying to get him modkilled. AS well as the other three players you want killed. Oh wait, you were only half serious when you asked the mod to kill those players.

Chocolate Attack - I respect that you think my scumlist is crummy, but you still haven't posted one that you think is worth looking at. Please do so.
Also, and this is more interesting, why do you keep saying there is only one scum left?


Pwayne - if you think you have expressed yourself better than me, than I am sorry that you have been reduced to a completely defensive stature. You seem to think I either have no case, or it's outdated, or it's crap logic, or basically all that stuff. That's fine. I am posting a case, and you are building your case off of the flaws of other people's cases. Very passive aggressive, a good way to try and make people nervous about going out there.
When people look back on your playstyle, after they are gone, who will they see you linked to? They'll see you taking grand steps to defend and protect Cicero, and trying to ground out wagons against him - sometimes to the point of insulting ht people who bring up the points. Why are you so absolutely sure that Cicero shouldn't be under suspicion today?



You and Cicero have also both stated being in another game together as part of the reason why you are so chummy.
Were you in another game with Gorgon?


You were in another game with Flea, but you're not nearly as chummy with him. Why? You were scum in that game, he was a regular townie, but you nightkilled him. Aren't you eager to bury the hatchet with him, too?

I mean Cicero was lynched day one in the game you two were in. Why this impulsive need to be nice to each other?

I would mention Kakeng but that is an ongoing game, so I am afraid I can't.

Were you in a game with Gorgon? If not, then why didn't you put any attention on him?

Cicero, me and you were in a game together, but you didn't seem overly eager to 'bury teh hatchet' with me.

I just don't buy that as an excuse to avoid considering each other mafia, at all. And sayign that someone has to prove someone is scum before you will start considering them scum, Pwayne, that's not pro-town at all.



Okay, that aside, let's look at what happened in here. I'll start with Pwayne and also take into account cicero and Gorgon's reactions to things.

Side note : It will have to wait one day.









Looking at who you put attention on, you seemed to subtly goad people into voting CLA, though you didn't yourself.

It is unfortunate that CLA has become suspect #1. I don't think he is a big fan of posting. Could be a long day 1 if we have to wait for responces. Oh and

lynch -2

on CLA.

And the back up role, same story. It's a very likely safe claim - but you don't vote him yourself, though you subtly push it.

Instead, you vote BM.

For attacking Cicero in a way you don't agree with.