STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Titus]

Mathblade and Farside are treating me exactly like SirCakez who flipped scum and the wagon developed similarly to SirCakez.

While I recognize it as slightly different, there

are

some rather striking similarities.

VERY striking similarities.

Mathblade's wagon has a near-perfect mirror to the SirCakez wagon development. Mathblade is treating Titus similarly.
farside among others is treating Mathblade similarly to how SirCakez was treated, though this is where I diverge from Titus in that I think this happens to not be alignment-indicative.

Otherwise, though, I still think it's a valid point.

Mathblade will not flip town.

I agree with this 100%.

I support your scumhunting and partially disagree on Farside.

[mastin2]

Guys math isn't scum
Their posts don't look like self preservation, if that's what they were trying to do they wouldn't have made the pushes they made

Mathblade's been alternating votes, continuously, between Shiro and DGB, the two largest counterwagons to them.

That isn't an effort at self-preservation...

...

How

?

Fixed.

[mastin2]

That's okay Mastin. As I told Yume when Titus didn't believe us: the best we can do is tell you what we figured out so people aren't doing dumb things out of ignorance.

Dude.
Yume literally has

mod confirmation that I am town

.
You trusted Yume enough to tell Yume.

You can get Yume to tell

a player literally fucking confirmed town

what you've got.

[Reasonably Rational]

That's okay Mastin. As I told Yume when Titus didn't believe us: the best we can do is tell you what we figured out so people aren't doing dumb things out of ignorance.

We don't need you to buy it. We just need you to be informed at this time.

And stop bickering over stupid shit that is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the setup.

Fyi though, there is basically no chance that we're wrong. If we're wrong, I will NEVER delve into the realm of setup speculation again. *shrug*

And yes, I already knew those things about KC and yourself. I'm even quite sure I know which corrupted gem you are!

Anyways, I'm looking forward to being proven right!

-Cerb

Don't stop setup speccing permanently if wrong. I love having a non scum motivated setup spec partner. I am not doing anything tonight, so no worries there.

For what it's worth, I think you're doing the right thing for what you believe. I think you're missing a fundamental fact Or facts that I deduced through what happened to me and partial flavor knowledge.

#supportanddisagree

Just a bit of rhetoric to express how certain I am. I don't think I could play without setup speccing. It sorta happens incidentally for me.

And..I have absolute flavor knowledge. Like super thorough, down to fan theories and such.

I assure you, there is certainly an elegance flavor wise to all of this, and when you see it everything will make perfect sense.

Oh, also I finally went back and looked at 464. The post mathblade says is where cooldog hinted at his asceticism. Can someone else go look at it and tell me if I'm just being stupid, or is there absolutely no hint of an ascetic claim in that post?

-Cerb

@mastin: the only piece of information that we have that is certain to sway you is not ours to share, but Yumes. Up to her. She already knows.

[Titus]

How much did you read the thread CoolDog? Mastin just said she wasn't allying with anyone, ever and you even said she was one of the only ones to post content. RR is already allied with OWK for D1.

if someone wants to make a table or some shit of all the allies cool, but that person isn't me, so I glazed over all of that shit.

I'm not sure about Mastin's Miller-like claim though. The way my Role PM's worded, I'm pretty sure that

I'm

the Miller.

On the subject of Alliances, who's unattached? I don't want to be all alone.

me, and I'm down.

You're getting all sadz, so maybe you aren't Scum.

I'll lean you towards Null.

I read the above exchange as slight tvt.

So quick question: should I bother reading the last 18 pages? Is there any real content or is it just fucking around, pregame bullshit?

ehhh. look at grapes chart and read like the last 5.

FUCK okay. I don't know how much I'll have to contribute but I will do my best to slog through it.

P.S. alliance anyone???

down

This post?

[Titus]

I don't see any hint of ascetic there.

[mastin2]

Yeah there's absolutely nothing ascetic-like in that post.
Unless you count facepalming to Klingoncelt's miller CC as a soft, which...is a stretch upon stretching.

[Reasonably Rational]

Double scum ascetic, neither of whom claimed publicly before the end of D1?

Yeah, no.

It's not just the setup spec, it's the play.

But the setup stuff is valid too.

-Cerb

Incorrect 464 RR it was hinted but not outright claimed

Yep Titus. Had to go find the post by Mathblade where they mention it, to be sure I didn't have the number wrong.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

This is disappointing. Honestly , lot of the stuff you guys are scumreading g them for feels SUPER circumstantial. The more math posts, the less inclined I am to feel they're scum...but then this happens and it confuses the shit out of me. On the one hand, why respond to a question from ME with a verifiable lie? They've played with me before. They knew at some point I would check. It doesn't follow.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Likex that's WHY I went and looked for the post, to confirm I had missed an ascetic claim, and then set about dropping the number of items on your lost, Titus, from 20 to 5 or so.

Not even gonna bother anymore, and they're not friggin around to explain themselves to us. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

:

Spoiler: Unrelated to the game, for Mastin

My role in SF had to find and arrange for the death of 8 or 9 different slots or so, while uninformed. Town had to arrange for the deaths of 6 specific slots, while uninformed. The SK had to do what sks always do(which is why it's the hardest win con around). Scum had to kill at least 2 specific slots, and any 10 additional ones, whIle informed and coordinated.

If I were to rank difficulty of win conditions in that game it would go this way, from easiest to hardest:

1) Scum(with the caveat that proper mechanical play could have secured a very early victory)
2) Town
3) Me
4) SK.

So, please don't disparage my success that game by calling my role some sort of overpowered SK. It was almost certainly the best rhetorical play I've ever engaged in, from the moment I claimed 3p until the game ended, and in spite of that I STILL would have lost if not for both town and scum missing at least one instant win.

-Cerb

[Titus]

This is disappointing. Honestly , lot of the stuff you guys are scumreading g them for feels SUPER circumstantial. The more math posts, the less inclined I am to feel they're scum...but then this happens and it confuses the shit out of me. On the one hand, why respond to a question from ME with a verifiable lie? They've played with me before. They knew at some point I would check. It doesn't follow.

-Cerb

Most lies are not done out of convienence with Math. They are forced. A town player says CoolDog never claimed ascetic, particularly one about to be mislynched. They blame CoolDog. A scum player tries to create a narrative to explain things.
A town player scumhunt their wagon. A scumplayer tries to discredit the wagon.

It's more of the only move; not a smart one.

[farside22]

Hopefully Math isn't just a policy.

Policy to end the day faster.

[Titus]

Farside, suppose Math is scum and I am town what are your reads?

[Reasonably Rational]

Narrative Evidence for Mathblade slot as scum
1) The only vote Cooldog places is for McMenno, as a counterwagon to RR and NC. He never gives an opinion on RR or NC.
2) CoolDog says NC will be clear after Mastina flips, but has zero issue with Mastina voting NC.
3) Discredits my Cakey read but doesn't call me scummy or elaborate.
4) He calls Not Chara a lurker in his defense of them.
5) His interactions regarding KTS's innocent child are just awkward.
6) Cooldog had prod dodges delaying content promised repeatedly.
7) His ISO has virtually no interaction with Cakey.
8) He's never pushed as a lurker when the push was to lynch a lurker.
9) Loopdan has the same broken promises.
10) Mathblade has only taken stances that are ridiculous, designed not to give information after they flip.
11) They're making manipulative personal appeals to me, while at the same time discrediting me.
12) The CoolDog didn't claim ascetic early on but Math did.
13) Lars doesn't make sense as an ability cloner (he's a human bully who doesn't really do anything). [Caveat: I'm still in Season 1]
14) When pressured for plausible reads, they give none.
15) Math has jumped to every single counterwagon that existed to her slot, and claimed to scumread them all.
16) The constant doubtcasting of Mastina is terrible.
17) The stretch to try and argue I townread them.
18) Math views Shiro's ISO the exact opposite of Farside, but neither question each other.
19) Math buddying TFL.

Okay, so I unspoiled this so everyone can see this in its entirety. This. So much this. Every point here, literally every point here, is valid and perfectly summarizes my feelings on Mathblade.

That's what I was saying was good. Cerb said something about knocking that down to 5 points so I'm going to ping him, but

intent to vote

from our slot.

I do want to point out that I still think the DGB/KC interaction has a scum in it and it seems like KC is the/a bubbler or associated with them, which makes it hard to put KC in the scum column, which leaves DGB. I just want to note that the counterwagons to Math could include scum intentionally voting one of their own. Something's off about the wagon situation, and that's the closest I can come to expressing it.

This is disappointing. Honestly , lot of the stuff you guys are scumreading g them for feels SUPER circumstantial. The more math posts, the less inclined I am to feel they're scum...but then this happens and it confuses the shit out of me. On the one hand, why respond to a question from ME with a verifiable lie? They've played with me before. They knew at some point I would check. It doesn't follow.

-Cerb

Most lies are not done out of convienence with Math. They are forced. A town player says CoolDog never claimed ascetic, particularly one about to be mislynched. They blame CoolDog. A scum player tries to create a narrative to explain things.
A town player scumhunt their wagon. A scumplayer tries to discredit the wagon.

It's more of the only move; not a smart one.

You know Math well. Why would Math give the Amished tell in the first place, and do so by claiming a post contained something it didn't? Wouldn't it make more sense to just say "Look at the prior players. They were bad. I'm not. I'm claiming neg utility" and go that route? Why a confirmable lie? That is, I think, Cerb's primary sticking point.

~Drixx

[Titus]

That statement gets a lynch vote from from me Drixx. CoolDog is skilled enough to know to claim that. I think it's said here negative utility needed to claim. Their goal is to avoid a lynch.

KC is not the bubbler.

[Reasonably Rational]

That statement gets a lynch vote from from me Drixx.

CoolDog is skilled enough to know to claim that.

I think it's said here negative utility needed to claim.

Their goal is to avoid a lynch.

KC is not the bubbler.

The underlined and bolded are the core of the case. A lot of your points could be argued to be subjective, but there's no dodging those two. Add the lie onto that, and it's GG. I was concerned that maybe past interactions or other influences might be coloring your judgment, but the core points really aren't that kind of thing. Checking vote count to make sure I don't hammer before alliances are finalized, but consider us voting for all intents and purposes.

I think we should ally with A50, btw. Either he's honest and wouldn't be adding any points to the count or if he's not honest he wouldn't add any points, so in terms of possible upside and for getting the most out of our alliances, that seems like the right move. We need Random to show back up so he can confirm a pairing. Are you still keeping a list of who is with whom?

~Drixx

[kraskaesque]

Guys math isn't scum
Their posts don't look like self preservation, if that's what they were trying to do they wouldn't have made the pushes they made

Mathblade's been alternating votes, continuously, between Shiro and DGB, the two largest counterwagons to them.

That isn't an effort at self-preservation...

...

How

?

Fixed.

That is completely subdued by their bickering with Titus which was like digging their own grave
I think math frustration is real and I believe them

[kraskaesque]

That statement gets a lynch vote from from me Drixx. CoolDog is skilled enough to know to claim that. I think it's said here negative utility needed to claim. Their goal is to avoid a lynch.

KC is not the bubbler.

replacements into slots being wagoned making belated ascetic claims is scummy as shit
How did that help math avoid a lynch? It helped like on more votes

[kraskaesque]

Helped pile* on

[Titus]

That statement gets a lynch vote from from me Drixx. CoolDog is skilled enough to know to claim that. I think it's said here negative utility needed to claim. Their goal is to avoid a lynch.

KC is not the bubbler.

replacements into slots being wagoned making belated ascetic claims is scummy as shit
How did that help math avoid a lynch? It helped like on more votes

You are not voting math. They did something scummy as shit (your words) Then they lied and claimed ascetic was already claimed. This should be open and shut.

[Titus]

That statement gets a lynch vote from from me Drixx.

CoolDog is skilled enough to know to claim that.

I think it's said here negative utility needed to claim.

Their goal is to avoid a lynch.

KC is not the bubbler.

The underlined and bolded are the core of the case. A lot of your points could be argued to be subjective, but there's no dodging those two. Add the lie onto that, and it's GG. I was concerned that maybe past interactions or other influences might be coloring your judgment, but the core points really aren't that kind of thing. Checking vote count to make sure I don't hammer before alliances are finalized, but consider us voting for all intents and purposes.

I think we should ally with A50, btw. Either he's honest and wouldn't be adding any points to the count or if he's not honest he wouldn't add any points, so in terms of possible upside and for getting the most out of our alliances, that seems like the right move. We need Random to show back up so he can confirm a pairing. Are you still keeping a list of who is with whom?

~Drixx

I'll put Shiro with Random and draft the list.

[kraskaesque]

Meh i knew you were going to retort with "Well it's working on you"
(I don't think lycan will like what im doing either anyway but)
I'm pretty sure this one will flip town

[Titus]

Actual alliances found
Titus/yume
Fuzzy/grapes
Almost/rr
Creature/Snarky
McMenno/Mastina
Kraska/NC
Shiro/Random

Recommended
Klingoncelt/KTS
Dgb/Farside
TheWayItEnds/Skybird
X/ShadowStep
Firebringer???
Someone is left out BC Mastina is allying.

[Not Chara]

sorry for my absence today. it was D&D night.
hasn't Firebringer been stripped of his ability to ally? or did i misread?