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Post Post #1875 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:47 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 1874, Harkonnen97 wrote:that doesn't necessarily mean that they are doing it right now, does it?
How would you know?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1876 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:48 pm

Post by Harkonnen97 »

why are you asking me a question that is impossible to answer?
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Post Post #1877 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:53 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

You are acting like my belief that Basic is scum and possibly defending someone is such a silly thing to think when you also wouldn't know if she is or not.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1878 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:57 pm

Post by JasonWazza »

In post 1860, Almost Chara wrote:Mate, I love how you're ignoring discussions and just selectively responding to certain stuff.

Reminder:
In post 1677, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1559, JasonWazza wrote:And personally with the knowledge i have of the show, i feel an SK existing to be fairly unlikely
Hey, Jason: Read the above quote, mate. Doesn't that imply you thought Synik was "likely" lying? In miy mind SK unlikely = FBI Agent unlikely = Synik likely lying = Synik likely Scum. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Any comments on this?

~A50
Why would i answer that when i already have?

Me calling the wagon dismantling bad doesn't in any way mean that i actually think Synik is scum, because i thought he was town enough before, my point is the wagon dismantling after the claim was bad because all of you had to of thought he was scum.


Really not sure why i have to spell that one out for you fuckwits, but you know.
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Post Post #1879 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:01 pm

Post by Harkonnen97 »

In post 1877, Nero Cain wrote:You are acting like my belief that Basic is scum and possibly defending someone is such a silly thing to think when you also wouldn't know if she is or not.
yes. this is exactly what i think. (not being sarcastic)
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Post Post #1880 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:01 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

but you don't know that
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1881 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:02 pm

Post by Harkonnen97 »

wait no. i misread basic and synik.

your scumread on basic himself isn't that bad. your confbias on synik and co (as in the general group, not just Basic) is what is bad
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Post Post #1882 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:04 pm

Post by Harkonnen97 »

"people who defend synik are either scum defending their scumbuddy, or scum defending a townie"
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Post Post #1883 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:05 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

like she didn't even have a town read on Creature and there were
TWO
players spouting a meta scumread on Creature. So it was pretty wonky that she was hard defending that over like nothing.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1884 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:05 pm

Post by Harkonnen97 »

yeah, i agree it was wonky. but does weird=scum?
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Post Post #1885 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:07 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

not always but some of the times. I mean its a role madness so we cn let night actions sort her.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1886 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:08 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1870, iraonavp wrote:Okay, I understand what you mean.
In post 1860, Almost Chara wrote:Mate, I love how you're ignoring discussions and just selectively responding to certain stuff.

Reminder:
In post 1677, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1559, JasonWazza wrote:And personally with the knowledge i have of the show, i feel an SK existing to be fairly unlikely
Hey, Jason: Read the above quote, mate. Doesn't that imply you thought Synik was "likely" lying? In miy mind SK unlikely = FBI Agent unlikely = Synik likely lying = Synik likely Scum. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Any comments on this?

~A50
He already said that.

There is no contradictions in JasonWazza's stance, he thinks that there is no serial killer and that we shouldn't let it auto-resolve.
But my post above was in response to this:
In post 1668, JasonWazza wrote:Hey wisdom, mind pointing me to the spot where i called synik scum?

What i was saying was the way the Wagon fell over a shitty claim seems like a scum wagon,
i never actually said that i personally think that Synik is scum.


Those are 2 different arguments.
How does saying there is no SK "not" saying the FBI Agent claim is fake; i.e. Synik is scum?? THAT was my point (and still is).
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Post Post #1887 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:09 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

Almost are you ever going to post your read list?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1888 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:15 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1878, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 1860, Almost Chara wrote:Mate, I love how you're ignoring discussions and just selectively responding to certain stuff.

Reminder:
In post 1677, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1559, JasonWazza wrote:And personally with the knowledge i have of the show, i feel an SK existing to be fairly unlikely
Hey, Jason: Read the above quote, mate. Doesn't that imply you thought Synik was "likely" lying? In miy mind SK unlikely = FBI Agent unlikely = Synik likely lying = Synik likely Scum. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Any comments on this?

~A50
Why would i answer that when i already have?

Me calling the wagon dismantling bad doesn't in any way mean that i actually think Synik is scum, because i thought he was town enough before, my point is the wagon dismantling after the claim was bad because all of you had to of thought he was scum.


Really not sure why i have to spell that one out for you fuckwits, but you know.
and I will repeat: You say that "based on your knowledge of the flavour" (which I hardly know anything about) you think it's highly unlikely there is an SK (yet, with my own VERY limited knowledge that only came from reading a few posts on fan pages) I believe there should be.

But that's not the point. The point is you town read Synik, who claimed FBI Agent, yet you don't believe there to be a Serial Killer in the first place. <<< EXPLAIN THIS SHIT. WHY WOULD THERE BE AN FBI AGENT W/O THERE BEING AN SK?
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Post Post #1889 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:22 pm

Post by JasonWazza »

Because it's Role madness, just because there is an FBI Agent doesn't confirm an SK.
As a result, games with FBI Agent are somewhat evenly split between those that have Serial Killers and those that don't. Unless there is evidence of an SK potentially being in the setup, FBI Agent is essentially a Named Townie.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=FBI_Agent

And you know what, it's not even like it was hard to know that this could be the case.
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Post Post #1890 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:23 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1887, Nero Cain wrote:Almost are you ever going to post your read list?
Nobody ever asked me to, and besides it's still developing with all the new stuff.

But -since you asked- here's an older version (the last one I had on file. Everything else would be found in the hydra PT)

Spoiler: To Nero, with love :P
7. Creature!! Synik
is FBI-agent (by claim) and it coincides with my setup spec of there being an SK. He's un CC'd which makes him semi-confirmed. Other than that, I have absolutely nothing to pint out in his ISO, and I do agree that Creature is a lurksack as both alignments but more so as Scum, so there's that.
11. Wisdom
is town based on posts from around page 12 onwards. Had some scummy vibes from him before that though.
4. Harkonnen97
had him pegged as town by virtue of #108, unless it was an actual slip and he+SC are scum. Also #503 had that same trolling impression on me. This read would be flipped 180 though if SC flips scum.
20. Vecna
was the towniest poster in early game. He's forcefully putting himself in the spotlight for both investigatives to check him and/or scum to shoot him. That read was a bit shaken around pages 49-50 where he was asked (by Nero) about Basic but responded as if it was Synik's wagon. It could still be an innocent confusion moment, but his early posts had me expecting him to be more alert.
2. Sondam (MariaR/Gerryoat)
are probably town for the way they expressed suspicion about SC's early posts. (As not to be misunderstood: THE WAY, not that they merely suspected SC). HOWEVER; their defence of lurkers in general, and Creature in particular is concerning. I may sympathise with their cause if it was just one or two lurkers, but the more lurkers in the game the less control town has on wagons bc scum lurkers will pop up at the right time to vote and/or make noise, while the town lurkers will have no udea what's going on and may still vote on recommendation of others. LURKERS ARE DEAD WEIGHT TO TOWN regardless.
13. SirCakez
is probably town because his posts at the start of the game gave me scum vibes. Scum!Cakes had fooled me 4/4 times before, and the ONLY time I actually did vote him to the lynch he flipped town. However, I've started to worry about some of his “revelations” of late, like in post #1111 where he stated he thought there's at least one scum on Synik wagon, but possibly more. I mean, it was a 9-man wagon, and Synik being the “target” that's 45% of the vote-base. Of course it's likely to have “at least one” scum on iut regardless of Synik's alignment. The question is whether Synik is Town or Scum, but even then one cannot tell for sure if scum are pushing the wagon or mostly staying off it. I'd say if Synik is Scum there's a higher probability his teammates joined the wagon later for town cred, but if he's Town then I cannot decide whether the wagon is scum driven or if scum saw the town doing them a favour and decided to keep away so as not to be on the receiving end of the backlash.
16. Nero Cain
is probably town. I'm a bit worried though he hasn't fake dayvigged anyone yet. However, I have played with him 4 times before (he was town in all 4) and he sounds like the Nero I know (a bit less irritated though, but that maybe bc none of you got on his nerves like some of the previous player lists did.. and that includes me) :P Oh! OK. IAI is starting to piss him off. GOOD JOB! :lol:
18. Gamma Emerald
Looks like a new player learning through experimenting. Leaning Town based on me not expecting him to actually purposefully play it that way (just my own line of thoughts though).
14. Narna!
is another slight town read. He's opinionated, loud and willing to engage. I'd still need a bit more of this stuff to get a stronger read though. He's often wrong (IMHO) but he will push what he believes in regardless. I like THIS Narna ;)
However, I don't like him insisting on getting Synik's flavour after having leant more about the flavour myself. It seems that in order to kill someone you need to know their character name as well as their player name (in flavour this is “thinking of the face while writing down the name in the Death Notebook). I'm not quite sure if this is just normal or if it was scum-driven.
15. I Am Innocent
maybe town for #1061. I can feel the frustration of losing to Sscum!lurkers. Been there myself. I don't get his argument in #1490 though.
10. Kraska77!
was null, which is another weird impression all in and by itself, as I usually scum read her style of playing. Still feel like something is off there, and posts like #1489 & # 1494 were terribad. Hmmmn. On the bright side, nice avi. :P
1. Not_Mafia!
&
19. Ooba!! SnarkySnowman
are two slots I'm not touching with a barge pole. I simply can't tell their scum!lurking from their town!lurking, so -unless they do something extraordinary- I'm leaving them to NC.
21. Mewtaph
I was giving a pass based on his join date. Nothing too conclusive in his posts to earn him a solid read either way, so he was basically at null early game, but he's starting to act anti-town and a bit hostile in an unpleasant way. “You're not doing the effort to read me, so I'm not talking to you” just isn't the way to duck queries my friend. How about being sarcastic in an “Almost-style” :P
8. BROseidon!
is a slight scum lean. Deliberately falling behind is not good, but explicitly announcing it makes me second guess myself. I haven't seen much “content” from him since, although he's been actively posting!!
12. Iraonavp
is another scum lean. At first I was going to add him to my “can't read” list, although -addmitedly- he's no lurker. His #672 though is about as weird as it gets. “Maybe” THAT explains some of his weird reads. I don't remember him giving any reads as scum though, so -once again- I'm not too sure if I'm reading him correctly.
6. Comparing Realities!! Basic 
Finally, a read on that slot. Not a great (as in confident) one but a read none-the-less. And it's another weak scum read based on post #850 and beyond. Their join date doesn't mean much to me because we have already been introduced. Um, I should add <redadacted> but I can't, so y'all are going to have to settle for that for now. (To clarify; I disagree with their stance on voting lurkers, and even more on mixing “voting” with “lynching”. In other words I'm with Nero here, and especially when the player's meta (Creature) is to lurk as scum. Of course, the newcomer could very much change the read and prove Creature was actually over-saturated with games or something, but you can't tell that from an established scum play style, and there's nothing wrong in apllying a little pressure on a newcomer to see how they react. Also the push on Nero is not justified IMHO. The <redacted> is what prevents this from being an explicit scum read. Also between him and hid predecessor they only have a total of 25 posts combined. Oh, my! It seems I have much more to say about Basic than most others!!
5. JasonWazza!
Nothing remarkable in his ISO, but #1559 is like he's claiming SK outright. He doesn't care if the claim is legit as it “can only find one person”!! OK, but if he's TOWN, why would we lynch him still? Why not let the SK take care of him while we try to catch and lynch SCUM instead?? I'm astonished though that the idea gained support from multiple players. I don't really know what to make of them supporters.

I'm fairly undecided about
3. Randomidget!
, &
9. Ankamius
. Still need more from them.

Finally:
17. ActionDan!! Almost Chara (Hydra of Not Chara and Almost 50)
are town by virtue of Kuroi saying so. I wouldn't usually take Kuroi's word on face value, but somehow I'm getting strong town vibes from him in this game I wouldn't expect him to tell us a lie or pass his own thoughts on us as mod-confirmed. :P
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Post Post #1891 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:25 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1889, JasonWazza wrote:Because it's Role madness, just because there is an FBI Agent doesn't confirm an SK.
As a result, games with FBI Agent are somewhat evenly split between those that have Serial Killers and those that don't. Unless there is evidence of an SK potentially being in the setup, FBI Agent is essentially a Named Townie.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=FBI_Agent

And you know what, it's not even like it was hard to know that this could be the case.
It was for me! I guess this explains your stance much better. You could've said so from the start though. :oops:

~A50
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Post Post #1892 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:27 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

@Nero:

Obviously the read on JW in that spoiler is now meaningless. Just a side remark for you.

~A50
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Post Post #1893 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:28 pm

Post by JasonWazza »

How the fuck am i meant to know that, of all the things i need to explain, FBI Agent not confirming a fucking SK exists is one of them.
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Post Post #1894 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:43 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1893, JasonWazza wrote:How the fuck am i meant to know that, of all the things i need to explain, FBI Agent not confirming a fucking SK exists is one of them.
OK, OK. My bad. Carry on, please. It's a good thing I never switched our votes from where NC (the wiser head apparently) had placed it, as THAT was my main (and probably ONLY) reason I had scum read you.

~A50
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Post Post #1895 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:00 pm

Post by iraonavp »

I'm confused. Where does JasonWazza read Synik as town-aligned?
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Post Post #1896 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:19 pm

Post by Vecna »

In post 1830, Narna wrote:Vecna goes from using his Bro vote to fence sit on the Synik issue, to following Bro onto the Snarky wagon which he didn't comment on early in the game.

Vecna is scummy.

VOTE: Vecna
I did not fence sit, I gave very detailled reasoning and talked about it for 4-6 posts why I did not WANT to hammer him (synik). Fence sitting implies im sitting and looking on from afar, which is not what happened. Also, if you consider what I did bad, then why are you doing the exact same thing now by voting me to "fence sit" the jason and snarky wagon?

And I did not follow anyone onto the snarky wagon, I made up my mind that that is the vote I wanted at that time all by myself, as I have properly explained in my posts. Ive asked him questions regarding his very dubious intent to hammer which still remain unanswered.

Try again with the reasoning, this time try to make some sense and do it without so obviously distorting what happened. Ofcourse im not surprised you and Gamma are the ones to be voting me after my last reads of people, getting too hot in the kitchen eh?
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Post Post #1897 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:26 pm

Post by Vecna »

In post 1864, Nero Cain wrote:What if Synik is the SK and fake claimed FBI agent? I guess it would help explain why Basic and others were hard defending that.
This is actually a pretty good observation and a possibility we should take serious. It would also explain why his wagon took off so quickly since the few mafia on it thought they were lynching town.

Did not think of this before, bonuspoints for Nero cain (even though scum could make the same observation ofcourse).
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Post Post #1898 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:54 pm

Post by Mewtaph »

Jason, can you explain how you found me scummy enough that I was your only non-RVS vote until now? Because I was essentially a vanity wagon for the majority of this game, I am currently trying to qualify how town!Jason thought that his vote would be better spent on me instead of using it to exercise pressure and other motives like testing for reactions.
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Post Post #1899 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:02 pm

Post by JasonWazza »

I think your scum, i mean there isn't much i can add to that one.
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