Micro 648: Mystery Box Mafia - 't is gedaan!

[RyanK]

It's ok House. If you still remember from which game you learned it, and the game is over, can you post a link? If you can't, it's all right.

[Sméagol]

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Day 2 #03

NJAC [

1

]:

GuiltyLion

House [

1

]:

RyanK

gigabyteTroubadour [

1

]:

Expedience

RyanK [

1

]:

House

Expedience [

1

]:

Not_Mafia

Abstaining [2]:

gigabyteTroubadour /

NJAC

There are 7 active players.
Absolute majority is

4

.
Majority has

not

been reached.

Previous vote count
Next vote count

Spoiler: Current playerlist

[1]

NJAC

[2]

House

[3] Maruchan † -

town

- vanilla - killed night 1

[4]

gigabyteTroubadour

[5] Flames682 † -

town

- hashtag doctor - lynched day 1

[6]

RyanK

[7]

Expedience

[8]

Not_Mafia

[9]

GuiltyLion

Spoiler: Days & nights

Day 1

Night 1

Day 2

Deadline is

22-10-2016 00:00:00 CEST

((expired on 2016-10-22 00:00:00)).

[Not_Mafia]

I am hated

[Sméagol]

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Site seems to be having problems (?), editing posts and replying to PMs is problematic at the moment.

Also, I'd be much obliged if people put their votes on new lines. I tend to miss them when they're on the right side of my screen.

[House]

It's ok House. If you still remember from which game you learned it, and the game is over, can you post a link? If you can't, it's all right.

If you are trying to discern the alignment of Player A, and Player B gets in the way and hinders your efforts... are you likely to consider Player B scum?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also, are you town reading Guilty only because of his claim, or is it because of something else?

Clear, sheepable thought processes are things I townread and I think Guilty's posting fits that pretty well.

I also felt like his activity during twilight was far more likely to come from town, town has much more reason to squeeze in as much thought process and scumhunting in a day and Maru's lolhammer took away a lot of our time. Sure, pro-town =/= town, but I don't even think I would have done anything besides ask Flames if he was really town.

Counter-question, how has your read on Guilty been developing?

The only thing that's bothering me (about all of my reads) is that I come up with a scumteam of NJAC/Not_Mafia and that doesn't really make much sense to me, which is why I'm waiting for Guilty to give some input on that since it's been a while since he's posted anything. I'm pretty sure I'm wrong on one of my townreads but I haven't really had the time to decide which one it is. Ryan and Guilty are stronger, so it's a toss-up between Expedience and House.

Also House, why are you still voting Ryan? I think he's pretty clearly town, even if his play is a bit unconventional.

[House]

Also House, why are you still voting Ryan? I think he's pretty clearly town, even if his play is a bit unconventional.

Haven't found a new home for it. I don't think he's likely to be speedlynched because of one vote.

[House]

Been pretty busy on other things, gonna refresh myself and figure out what's going on here.

[House]

So I was also a neapolitan in addition to being ascetic, which is why I didn't trade the role.

I investigated RyanK and the action failed. I cannot be roleblocked, so I believe he is also ascetic, and he did not claim it.

VOTE: RyanK

Why did you decide to investigate him?

I'm not saying he's definitely scum, he could just be cagey, but he's definitely giving the most scummy pings so far relative to the other posts, especially given a town!Flames

I've played with Not_Mafia a lot. I have experience with him myself. The idea that he'd react in a significant way to a lone RVS vote is a joke.

NJAC presented a good question, made me revisit Guilty's ISO where i found this.

Guilty, why didn't you investigate NJAC if you were suspicious of him?

I don't investigate scumreads, I presume that they will be lynched without me needing night actions. In regular setups, it's also very awkward if you get a town result on a scumread as a cop to do a complete about-face on them the next day without giving away that you're investigative. So generally I investigate null reads, and in this game I picked RyanK as he had one post, was on a mislynch wagon, and I figured if I got a VT result then I could play it slow and see who tried to push him and why

This bugs me.

You seem to have zero interest in a player's alignment after you decide they are lynch-worthy, but there is also value in stopping mislynches because it narrows the PoE pool while also preventing a possible mislynch which allows you to build a team of confirmed town to take to end game or until you do get your guilty because scum don't kill likely mislynch candidates.

Undermining a lynch wagon on an inno without outing results is doable, and that feels like a scummy copout. Hell, even if you out the results, you can simply change out the role!

On top of that, ascetic is a really poor modifier for town because it prevents any sort of protective role from targeting you and leaves you open to the night kill, yet you are clinging onto it as a prize.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[House]

I think Maruchan is town even for that hammer, he's trying to get in useful thoughts before threadlock

actually I retract that, on closer inspection his posts afterwards aren't that useful

I don't understand why you wouldn't have investigated here if you were conflicted.

His hammer didn't make him an autolynch.

[House]

I was kinda hoping Not_Mafia would post because he normally recklessly approaches the Day1 hammer and I thought L-1'ing a scummy slot early would be a good way of reading him.

Why didn't you target NM, for that matter? He was obviously a concern of yours.

[GuiltyLion]

House isn't claiming at L-1 with intent, either.

If you people want to derp lynch me, you can learn about my role from the mod because I'm dead anyway so I refuse to reward town after being so stupid.

Wow this is a bad post. House is trying to soft a power role but not actually claim it, to deflect votes off of him without having to commit to a claim ahead of time. The attempt at AtE is pretty visibly fake as well. You get rope

VOTE: House

[House]

There's a reason I'm not claiming it that will become apparent if the time comes that it's actually a relevant role to have.

[House]

Nice BEETLEJUICE OMGUS btw.

[GuiltyLion]

GuiltyLion, if you are the kind of player who cares this early in the gamestate, who's NJAC's partner? Because right now with my reads his partner (Not_Mafia) makes zero sense, but that tends to happen when you use PoE to find partners.

I'm having second thoughts on scum!NJAC at the moment, and I would quite like for him to powerlynch House with us today. If he avoids the House wagon after his distancing vote then I'd say NJAC-House team would be my pick, mostly because I'm townreading everyone else (especially RyanK and Expedience)

[House]

I can tell you right now that NJAC is a VT, which is why I've been eyeballing you for a while.

[House]

So I was also a neapolitan in addition to being ascetic, which is why I didn't trade the role.

Why does getting "Vanilla/Not Vanilla" results as well as being untargetable

for anything except kills

make it a desirable role?

You're a sitting duck for the night kill, and your results don't serve any realistic purpose in a role madness game.

[House]

Get your ass in here and tell us why you value ascetic so much.

[GuiltyLion]

This bugs me.

You seem to have zero interest in a player's alignment after you decide they are lynch-worthy, but there is also value in stopping mislynches because it narrows the PoE pool while also preventing a possible mislynch which allows you to build a team of confirmed town to take to end game or until you do get your guilty because scum don't kill likely mislynch candidates.

Undermining a lynch wagon on an inno without outing results is doable, and that feels like a scummy copout. Hell, even if you out the results, you can simply change out the role!

On top of that, ascetic is a really poor modifier for town because it prevents any sort of protective role from targeting you and leaves you open to the night kill, yet you are clinging onto it as a prize.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

This is a scum vote, here's why:

"You seem to have zero interest in a player's alignment after I decide they are lynchworthy" - there is no post where I ever said this, House is putting words into my mouth. For example, I flipped my read on RyanK once he responded to my push on him at the start of D2. House doesn't see this because House's goal is to paint me as scum.

Further, House embellishes/misreps when he says I "cling onto [being ascetic] as a prize". I claimed it D1 because I planned to use my investigate N1, and therefore wanted to make sure no one wasted night actions on me.

I have since changed my role, I am no longer ascetic

House pulls the idea that I would have kept my role later out of nowhere. I never once said I planned to keep the role deeper into the game, but House's goal is to paint me as scum, not to see my alignment.

Finally, House has been constantly asking me meaningless questions today. "Why didn't you investigate [x]? Shouldn't you have investigated [x] instead?". If I am scum, I can claim to have investigated whoever I want, and invent reasons for why I investigated them appropriately. There's no way to "catch" me as scum by pursuing this line of questioning, rather, House's goal is to spread some idea that I am "scummy" for not investigating who he thinks a town player would have investigated. It should be clear that this is not a genuine town thought process, the goal is to invent reasons to vote me.

His other question is "why did you keep this role", which is a slightly better question, but still fruitless. Again, if I'm scum and I'm lying about my role, I can say whatever I want. If I really am ascetic, it is pro-town to claim ascetic regardless of my alignment. Like we've said already, the only scum!motivation for not claiming ascetic would be if I want to gambit on wasting a town night action by baiting one. I kept the role because it had an investigative ability in addition to the modifier and I thought it would be worth using on N1 instead of immediately trading.

[GuiltyLion]

I can tell you right now that NJAC is a VT, which is why I've been eyeballing you for a while.

I don't believe this "result" at all, it's pretty obvious you're flailing now. You opened the day with this post:

For all intents and purposes, my vote is on NJAC.

Why would you say that if you got a VT-result on NJAC?

[House]

I can see Ryan being a relatively new player not knowing to claim ascetic day 1. Doesn't make me want to townread him, of course, but I don't see this as a cop guilty.

Why are you conjecturing instead of letting Ryank explain?

i got jumpy, still trying to learn when to shut up

ryan is kind of an oddity to me right now and i wanted him to answer my question before we started lynching him. i wanted to make it clear that i don't think guilty has a guilty on him and the way the vote was placed made it seem like one, so piling on votes because of an interesting result might not be the smartest move.

It's not like he was going to be speedlynched in less than a day.

Let shit play out.

*cough*

[House]

You were pushing NJAC for loopy shit, so I wanted to give you a tasty wagon to see if you'd latch on and continue your assault.

There was no way he was getting lynched, though.

[House]

I can tell you right now that NJAC is a VT, which is why I've been eyeballing you for a while.

I don't believe this "result" at all, it's pretty obvious you're flailing now. You opened the day with this post:

For all intents and purposes, my vote is on NJAC.

Why would you say that if you got a VT-result on NJAC?

People overuse the shit out of flailing, lol.

I hate to break it to you champ, but it doesn't have the desired effect when you're lying.

[GuiltyLion]

We're supposed to have deduced that you actually have a cop-innocent on him from that post? Nope, not buying it. You're only clearing him now because:

a) You think it might save you
b) When you flip scum, it creates WIFOM over whether NJAC is your partner or legitimately a VT

Further, there are other reasons why only claiming your result now that you had serious attention and vote pressure is not how a town cop plays.

First off, it poisons any trust in your alignment to claim results so late in the day without an obvious crumb. Your claim has the scum!motivation I've already outlined above, and if you were a real town cop you would have done a much better job setting yourself up not to be lynched, by having a solid result claim from the beginning of the day.

Second, If someone else (such as Not_Mafia, since he is claiming hated) was turbolynched at some point today before you outed this VT-result, then you would have left no trace in your ISO that you had a hard-innocent on NJAC, and if you flipped as a cop later then we'd be left wondering what you did on N1 - given this setup, we'd probably conclude that you traded and only received an investigative role on D2.

[House]

Further, House embellishes/misreps when he says I "cling onto [being ascetic] as a prize". I claimed it D1 because I planned to use my investigate N1, and therefore wanted to make sure no one wasted night actions on me.

You also painted a massive target on your back.

Claiming PGO would have made a lot more sense and had the same effect of keeping town PR's away.

But you don't have to worry about the nk, do you?