STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Creature: obviously A50, myself, farside, and kraska. One scum flip in this group=3 conftown, unless there are 7+scum.

-Cerb

Scratch my previous post just saw this one.

1. Why did you "keep it a secret"?
2. Why do you think we are lynching in this group for PoE when I already read Almost and kraska as Town for other reasons and have already said I don't think farside makes any sense as scum or a Leftover that can join scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Farside scum requiring "the other two" to cover for her is more accurate. We agree that one had to cover for Sky leaving three, and farside should be one of them 3

Agreed.

Have anything to say about your SirCakez readlist and Farside as I pointed out?

[Reasonably Rational]

@Creature: obviously A50, myself, farside, and kraska. One scum flip in this group=3 conftown, unless there are 7+scum.

-Cerb

Scratch my previous post just saw this one.

1. Why did you "keep it a secret"?
2. Why do you think we are lynching in this group for PoE when I already read Almost and kraska as Town for other reasons and have already said I don't think farside makes any sense as scum or a Leftover that can join scum?

I won't be answering 1. Regarding 2, why the fuck should I care what your opinions are again? Your reasons are shit, and worthless imo,.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also ir wasn't a secret. :p you're all just really fucking lazy.

-Cerb

[MagnaofIllusion]

I won't be answering 1. Regarding 2, why the fuck should I care what your opinions are again? Your reasons are shit, and worthless imo,.

-Cerb

@Almost

- see this is exactly why our discussion on why you are reading RR as Town falls flat for me. Because everything I see in the thread is not "Trying to solve the game" it's trying to strong-arm the game with questionable logic and posts like this.

[Almost50]

Farside scum requiring "the other two" to cover for her is more accurate. We agree that one had to cover for Sky leaving three, and farside should be one of them 3

Agreed.

Have anything to say about your SirCakez readlist and Farside as I pointed out?

Nope. I concede that it's an either/or. Only if farside started the game as scum would that SC read list analysis make any sense.

[Reasonably Rational]

I won't be answering 1. Regarding 2, why the fuck should I care what your opinions are again? Your reasons are shit, and worthless imo,.

-Cerb

@Almost

- see this is exactly why our discussion on why you are reading RR as Town falls flat for me. Because everything I see in the thread is not "Trying to solve the game" it's trying to strong-arm the game with questionable logic and posts like this.

What exactly is questionable here? No point you've raised with regards to individuals in that pool excludes them from consideration as suspects imo, and you somehow think that because you suggested we lynch in another pool, one which will likely require 2 scum flips to conftown the remainder of the pool, town should just meekly agree with your plan?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

^^ I mean, I could have answered you in a "nice" way, but I'm rather over being nice to you, particularly when you insist on attacking Drixx and myself personally for no reason. You don't even know us. You constantly throw snide comments into every post you make that references us.

What, exactly, is your problem with us, because it's clearly not based on actual game play here.

-Cerb

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nope. I concede that it's an either/or. Only if farside started the game as scum would that SC read list analysis make any sense.

Then, to quote the Princess Bride, we are an an impasse.

I don't think there is any way Varsoon gave a role that started the game as scum the ability to stack that many votes given the other strong Events we have seen from scum combined with Skybird having a Double Vote and DGB effectively controlling two votes. Thus I don't think there is any way you can reasonably conclude that farside is group scum from the start of the game.

[Almost50]

@Almost - see this is exactly why our discussion on why you are reading RR as Town falls flat for me. Because everything I see in the thread is not "Trying to solve the game" it's trying to strong-arm the game with questionable logic and posts like this.

LOL.. they're trying to solve the game "behind the curtains" (i.e. in PTs), just like Titus, Mastina and even you guys are. You see, each and everyone of these names (Titus.Mastina/RR/CGs) knew things others didn't and opted to keep them secrets and/or share them only with certain individuals.

Let me elaborate: Just assume -for the sake of argument- that this game was NOT flavoured, and you kept flips from being publicly announced without providing an explanation. Now, how do you think I would feel about the CGs (erm, which won't be even called that since there'd be no flavour)? I sure would have suspected you all for that and screamed that it was extremely anti-town, precisely because I'm TOWN .. and I'm being kept in the dark.

The thing is I do take flavour into account, and yet I'm not an expert in modding (thus not assuming too many trickery flavourwise.. just the obvious), so I have always assumed the CGs are TOWN and thus whatever they were doing that I didn't like must've had a good reason behind it that I'm just not entitled to know about just yet.

The same thing with -say- Mastina and Titus in early game when they kept saying X was town for (reasons) and never told us what these reasons were at the time, and I was frustrated but had to wait another phase or two in hopes something will be revealed or explained. I knew they're both town but I also know town can be wrong (and God knows I'm a master in that field).

Suffice it to say I fully understand the RR slot reasoning behind this behaviour (although I certainly do NOT agree with their conclusion and tend to believe the Gems are Town and have a logical reason behind my belief that is -also- very much tied to the flavour).

Also, I don't think relying totally on meta reads and/or disregarding anti-town behaviour for whatever reasons is healthy for the game play. If you're town and you act extremely and repeatedly in a way that is deemed detrimental to town you should get lynched, and if the town loses you get all the blame too.

[Reasonably Rational]

(Other than our refusal to ignore the myriad reasons to not just blindly trust the gems, that is).

-Cerb

Pedit: magna, Titus claimed your entire role to shiro and myself. We've seen 3 gem flips. Weve seen a bunch of town power.

How can you possibly discount ANY degree of power on the part of the scum team?

[Almost50]

Nope. I concede that it's an either/or. Only if farside started the game as scum would that SC read list analysis make any sense.

Then, to quote the Princess Bride, we are an an impasse.

I don't think there is any way Varsoon gave a role that started the game as scum the ability to stack that many votes given the other strong Events we have seen from scum combined with Skybird having a Double Vote and DGB effectively controlling two votes. Thus I don't think there is any way you can reasonably conclude that farside is group scum from the start of the game.

Except she could not have stacked her votes early in the game since she first needed to gain the points for it. If I didn't pick her for Joy Ride -for instance- she would not have gained the points from destroying it. If Nobody targeted her at night she would not gain points from that either. She probably got lucky with me picking her for an event that resulted in an alliance on E1 (and as far as I can remember it was the ONLY event that resulted in an "alliance") that allowed her to gain points so early into the game and build on it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What exactly is questionable here? No point you've raised with regards to individuals in that pool excludes them from consideration as suspects imo, and you somehow think that because you suggested we lynch in another pool, one which will likely require 2 scum flips to conftown the remainder of the pool, town should just meekly agree with your plan?

-Cerb

I'm lynching where the odds of finding scum are much greater. Frankly the only slot in that pool that makes any sense as Mafia is you. And I don't suspect I'll get enough support for that today. I'm absolutely not lynching Farside on your "reasons" which are by no means the smoking gun you seem to think they are given everything I've said on why her role, which has proven to have the ability to stack votes, makes no sense as starting scum or Leftover able to join with Mafia who already have 2 proven vote manipulating roles. So it certainly makes sense from my perspective to lynch in the pool where scum are definitely going to be found.

You can feel free to disagree but that doesn't mean I'm effectively a moron to do so.

Also I don't know what you are blathering on about "attacking" you. You were the one that opened the door stating your hydra was going to be the most successful slot at utilizing logic to solve the game. Calling you out when you have a stunning lack of logic to your posts is me finding scum intent given your claim.

[farside22]

It's not even fluff though.

Why would i include rr as town?

She said that.

No I didnt.

You claim you can become a third party. Kevin doesn't make sense for the third party that is in existance.

I have nothing to do with the gems.
I've said that multiple times as well.

And RR lies one more time and I will vote him till he is dead.

What did I lie about this time? You saying at day start that you didn't think TWIE was likely scum?

-Cerb

Your using that as fear mongering considering that at least 4 times I've stated his comments make no sense reading the OP.
But sure you can ignore that if you want to make things sound scummy to everyone about me.

I know you've said stuff since then, sure. I'm simply repeating your positions in the past.

And how is it fear mongering? I'll freely agree to fear mongering with regards to you quickhammering anyone you please, because it already happened once and im fucking sick of people in games wirh known multivotinf mechanics dumping vote all over the place in the day phase, but pointng out your previous "least likely among all my suspects" position regarding TWIE isn't fear mongering at all.

@Creature: obviously A50, myself, farside, and kraska. One scum flip in this group=3 conftown, unless there are 7+scum.

-Cerb

Says the player who demanded on day 3 I should pile as much as I can on a player for votes, then bitched when it happened.
These double standards really are awful.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Except she could not have stacked her votes early in the game since she first needed to gain the points for it. If I didn't pick her for Joy Ride -for instance- she would not have gained the points from destroying it. If Nobody targeted her at night she would not gain points from that either. She probably got lucky with me picking her for an event that resulted in an alliance on E1 (and as far as I can remember it was the ONLY event that resulted in an "alliance") that allowed her to gain points so early into the game and build on it.

This is not a reason why her role makes any sense as a scum role or as a role able to be join with scum. Now I'm leaning heavily on my judgement in regards to the Mod but Varsoon got absolutely killed postgame in Bloodborne Mafia for letting scum have too much voting power. I don't care if it would take farside a while longer to accumulate points if things didn't go as they did - I just can't see Varsoon giving scum a DoubleVoter, a Traitor who is effectively a Double Voter and access to the vote power Farside has. You have to keep in mind that the set-up isn't build with the current game-state in mind. Varsoon has to balance it so that if things go better for scum than they have that Town isn't decimated.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I don't reasonably think I am.

[Reasonably Rational]

It's not even fluff though.

Why would i include rr as town?

She said that.

No I didnt.

You claim you can become a third party. Kevin doesn't make sense for the third party that is in existance.

I have nothing to do with the gems.
I've said that multiple times as well.

And RR lies one more time and I will vote him till he is dead.

What did I lie about this time? You saying at day start that you didn't think TWIE was likely scum?

-Cerb

Your using that as fear mongering considering that at least 4 times I've stated his comments make no sense reading the OP.
But sure you can ignore that if you want to make things sound scummy to everyone about me.

I know you've said stuff since then, sure. I'm simply repeating your positions in the past.

And how is it fear mongering? I'll freely agree to fear mongering with regards to you quickhammering anyone you please, because it already happened once and im fucking sick of people in games wirh known multivotinf mechanics dumping vote all over the place in the day phase, but pointng out your previous "least likely among all my suspects" position regarding TWIE isn't fear mongering at all.

@Creature: obviously A50, myself, farside, and kraska. One scum flip in this group=3 conftown, unless there are 7+scum.

-Cerb

Says the player who demanded on day 3 I should pile as much as I can on a player for votes, then bitched when it happened.
These double standards really are awful.

No farside.

I suggested the town declare intent to vote someone, and then when the threshold was reached, you hammer them. I wanted town in complete control, along with a full voting history, while simultaneously forcing you to expend your points so as to minimize the threat you could be in the late game and thus make you play towards your claimed town win condition, rather than your third party one.

I did not want you to unilaterally decide to lynch people once they they reached 1/2 lynch -1.

@Magna: you haven't actually outlined any such flaws though? All you do is take umbrage when we suggest the gems shouldn't be blindly trusted, and then fail to understand the positions we're taking, such as trying to argue that keeping a dead conftown communicating with the game, comments filtered by you, was more important than KEEPING SCUM FROM KILLING ANOTHER.

...

Then you proceed to suggest that we lynch in a pool which, yes has approximately a 40% chance of containing scum, compared to the 25% of my proposed pool...but my pool(AND suggested lynch) establish conftown with a single scum flip, and restores to us the ability to discuss and play normally without being on the verge of a hammer constantly.

For example, assuming scum kill someone tonight, if ANY alliance chooses to both vote the same slot, farside can hammer them immediately. I'm not going to just sit around and let us keep playing in an environment like that. Hell, if she was conftown, I would strongly consider lynching her on principle(which would be a policy lynch at that point). With all the evidence showing she's likely scum? Easy choice.

-Cerb

Pedit: stop comparing this to bloodborne. The situation is WILDLY different. Nahdia's role could hammer BY ITSELF, WITH NOBODY ELSE VOTING. Farside will always require at least 2 other votes being placed, or one other individual with a double vote and expends a resource when she votes, and has NO control over gaining that resource. One of the double voting slots thst could have assisted ber, DGB, could not coordinate with her without disabling her powers, or of course happening to link up with another scum slot, thus it would take at least 3 slots coordinating for a quick hammer to occur a la Bloodborne.

It's a FAR weaker role than Nahdias.

[farside22]

The thing I find funny is certain players are calling me scum but believe my claim about points.
Or how my vote works.
Someone can tell me how that makes sense.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

We also have our own condition. At least one Cyrstal Gem and Townie must be alive at end game. I guess it is because Crystal Gems are a different 'faction' to Earth ppl, despite wanting the same goal.

This makes sense as a wincon..I can see Vasoon doing this

VOTE: TWIE

Bah whatever, that's taking too long

I love how farside (my #1 suspect), Creature (my #2 suspect) and Fuzzy (my #3 suspect) are all voting TWIE (my #4 suspect). Yeah.. totally comfortable NOT joining that wagon.

I am not voting TWIE I am voting Far at the moment .........

[Reasonably Rational]

The thing I find funny is certain players are calling me scum but believe my claim about points.
Or how my vote works.
Someone can tell me how that makes sense.

Because the details dont matter.Yes, the vote thing might function differently (perhaps it's limited shots, or perhaps the maximum number of votes is higher),but we DO know that you were able to provide 5/8 votes for a lynch yesterday, so we have to assume that, going forward, you'll be able to provide AT LEAST 1/2 lynch rounded down plus one votes towards any lynch until we hit lylo.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh and there's also no reason to assume you're lying when everything you've claimed that is testable has been tested and proven correct/corroborated by someone else. Making up stuff about your role just puts you at risk of getting caught by a slot with powers like what Creature has claimed.

-Cerb

[farside22]

Oh and there's also no reason to assume you're lying when everything you've claimed that is testable has been tested and proven correct/corroborated by someone else. Making up stuff about your role just puts you at risk of getting caught by a slot with powers like what Creature has claimed.

-Cerb

Who's been caught lying.

Who you have on your scum list.


This is a joke right?
Because I can't see any town worth there salt believing players they are scum reading, one who has been caught lying.

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh and there's also no reason to assume you're lying when everything you've claimed that is testable has been tested and proven correct/corroborated by someone else. Making up stuff about your role just puts you at risk of getting caught by a slot with powers like what Creature has claimed.

-Cerb

Who's been caught lying.

Who you have on your scum list.


This is a joke right?
Because I can't see any town worth there salt believing players they are scum reading, one who has been caught lying.

...

Farside, please tell me you aren't this obtuse.

Note I said a slot with powers LIKE what he claimed. As in, any sort of role investigating slot. Neither expressing belief or disbelief in his claim, but instead saying WHY I have no problem accepting thst your role functions as you expressed while still believing you're scum.

-Cerb

[farside22]

That's some sweet double talk.

[Almost50]

The thing I find funny is certain players are calling me scum but believe my claim about points.
Or how my vote works.
Someone can tell me how that makes sense.

I'll bite. You see, I do believe you have a point system that works towards "something". What I don't believe is there to be a town role that can opt to switch to an alternate 3P win-con and pull out of the game. I would've been more inclined to believe you if you said you were 3P and had the option to join town (or even join EITHER town or scum).

As for how the votes work, I'm not even sure I do believe you. You said up to half the lynch threshold INCLUDING your original vote, but SS was lynched with 3 votes + 5 of yours, so that's half the threshold NOT COUNTING your original vote, and that's for starters.

i would have also bought your claim if you hadn't been acting anti-town since the word go. There was absolutely no reason for you to destroy a town event just to gain points towards whatever your win-con is. You could've done it much more subtly and no one would've noticed or got suspicious, but from that point on you kept getting scummier and scummier.

Your arguing with Titus seems like someone who just wants to argue for the sake of arguing, and is one of the worst 1-on-1 duels I've ever seen, and I would've wanted to vote you off just to STOP that insanity.

However, Titus got killed and -theoretically speaking- all should've calmed down, but -instead- you found another target to shitpost about and get the same nonsense going in RR. If I was in your shoes and I was town still I would've probably kept my mouth shut just to let the people enjoy the game, but you're not only acting anti-town, but also anti-game-spirit. That's anti-social.. anti-sportsmanship.. anti-ANYTHING that makes the game of Mafia a fun game to begin with.

So, you see.. it's absolutely nothing personal (although it is now!), but you can never convince me that you and I have been on the same side all along or that you have been playing for the same win-con that I have been, which is to eliminate all threats to Earth.

[farside22]

The thing I find funny is certain players are calling me scum but believe my claim about points.
Or how my vote works.
Someone can tell me how that makes sense.

I'll bite. You see, I do believe you have a point system that works towards "something". What I don't believe is there to be a town role that can opt to switch to an alternate 3P win-con and pull out of the game. I would've been more inclined to believe you if you said you were 3P and had the option to join town (or even join EITHER town or scum).

As for how the votes work, I'm not even sure I do believe you. You said up to half the lynch threshold INCLUDING your original vote, but SS was lynched with 3 votes + 5 of yours, so that's half the threshold NOT COUNTING your original vote, and that's for starters.

i would have also bought your claim if you hadn't been acting anti-town since the word go. There was absolutely no reason for you to destroy a town event just to gain points towards whatever your win-con is. You could've done it much more subtly and no one would've noticed or got suspicious, but from that point on you kept getting scummier and scummier.

Your arguing with Titus seems like someone who just wants to argue for the sake of arguing, and is one of the worst 1-on-1 duels I've ever seen, and I would've wanted to vote you off just to STOP that insanity.

However, Titus got killed and -theoretically speaking- all should've calmed down, but -instead- you found another target to shitpost about and get the same nonsense going in RR. If I was in your shoes and I was town still I would've probably kept my mouth shut just to let the people enjoy the game, but you're not only acting anti-town, but also anti-game-spirit. That's anti-social.. anti-sportsmanship.. anti-ANYTHING that makes the game of Mafia a fun game to begin with.

So, you see.. it's absolutely nothing personal (although it is now!), but you can never convince me that you and I have been on the same side all along or that you have been playing for the same win-con that I have been, which is to eliminate all threats to Earth.

My vote + up to half the lynch threshold.
Dude that was 4 points I got for doing that. That's a heck of a lot considering the rest of the time I maybe get 1 or 2 points during the night or none.
You can call it anti town but that is what going for a selfish single win con is.
You have a better way to get to it, let me know.

So you think I should let scum slide?
I should let rr continue the Titus tunnel that made the game unbearable and he can be scummy as shit and I should let that be?
Wtf kind of town attitude is that?

I'd say with your reads this game your doing a fab job helping scum.
Thanks for sharing.