Open 657: JK9++ (Game over)


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Post Post #200 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:46 am

Post by Klingoncelt »

In post 195, Fountain of Dreams wrote:
In post 183, Klingoncelt wrote:
Alban
, if you're very familiar with Spade's play then you had no reason to ISO him here. My original scumread stands. You two share the Scum PT.

VOTE: AlbanVOTE:
Well what a bad vote
No, Alban made a big deal out of visiting players' profile pages to study them and their play.

But Alban already knows Spade's play, from offsite, further, Spade has virtually nothing to read here, this is his first game.

I still hold that Alban knew Spade had no avi from the Scum PT. I'll be voteparked here.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
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Post Post #201 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Post by Fountain of Dreams »

Kling prob townslipped

Just vig her tonight and move on
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Post Post #202 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:53 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 201, Fountain of Dreams wrote:Kling prob townslipped

Just vig her tonight and move on
????????????????
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Post Post #203 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:57 am

Post by Fountain of Dreams »

The vigilante (if there is one) should use their power on Klingoncelt tonight, because she's a massive distraction to town and won't do anything that needs to be done.
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Post Post #204 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:57 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 203, Fountain of Dreams wrote:The vigilante (if there is one) should use their power on Klingoncelt tonight, because she's a massive distraction to town and won't do anything that needs to be done.
But you said they probably townslipped
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Post Post #205 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:58 am

Post by Creature »

I don't agree with policy lynches/vigs.
Sigh
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Post Post #206 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:01 am

Post by Klingoncelt »

In post 203, Fountain of Dreams wrote:The vigilante (if there is one) should use their power on Klingoncelt tonight, because she's a massive distraction to town and won't do anything that needs to be done.
Massive distraction?

I don' think Town is massively distracted.

They certainly don't seem massively distracted.

Maybe you're just bent because I named the Scumteam and you're on it.

Yeah, maybe that's it.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
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Post Post #207 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:02 am

Post by Klingoncelt »

Semi V/LA until Wednesday.
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Post Post #208 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:13 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

Hi, Kop. Nice to play with you again. Thank you for that catch-up post. I've written up my thoughts on it in bold gold text (aliteration totally intended).

Spoiler: Vivisection of Kop's catch up
In post 178, Kop wrote:
Page one


3 votes pretty much straight away. Not a great deal to comment on those 3 votes since it's RVS, but it's worth something noting down for future use because even though it's RVS, sometimes scum find good enough reasons to have a slight distance of team mates by voting in such ways, as it's easy to do.
Really? I've never paid attention to RVS votes after an RVS ended.


And scum tend to try forge partnerships with town, possible creating pockets for town to slide into. Look at the whole partnership that has come from the whole RVS, creating misunderstandings, then boiled from there, to now on page four possible buddying from FOD and MDS.
Two things.
1) Buddying isn't a scumtell, especially this early and this minor.
2) I wasn't buddying Fountain. I assume you refer to their "let's lynch him?" That's pretty one-sided buddying. Where did *I* buddy anyone?


Not a good scum tell I know or may not even make sense in the manner I'm explaining it, but It's something I'm going to keep a good eye on, I think town reads early game are thrown around far too easily, and it can be easy for scum to forge that since they know who town are. So for the first few pages, FoS on MDS and Fountain of dreams.
Fountain's one head is Transcend, who as far as I can tell always dispenses reads like church flyers. IME this is not alignment indicative of him.
As for me, I'm usually extremely transparent with my thoughts and reads, even if they are weak. If you haven't seen it already, you will soon.


Fountain, I may have missed the post of you explaining your vote on spade then a full U turn to go back onto Gamma, what was that all about?
I think this was already discussed earlier and they said it was to create a wagon. I'd let them answer instead of me, but they aren't exactly known for answering questions.



Page two


FOD, what makes you think Charloux is town? What gives you that impression that he is town from the misunderstanding posts he made early on? How would you class a tunnel town motivated?
I, too, would like to know, but like I said above...


I disagree with your creature point of him being too careful. During RVS posts and votes come in fairly quick if everyone is on, and putting a wagon at L-1 when random votes are flying all over, it's easy for someone to jump in put a vote on someone (who may have gone onto L-1 as he is typing that vote out, and he could easily hammer if he fails to read the preview box. I don't see any scum motivation in that for you to vote for him, based on that.

FOD, in post 28 you were unsure of MDS and needed to investigate more. You didn't investigate up until you voted for him in post #42, after the little back and forth with Creature who you were voting for him, what made you turn around?
*cough* I'm female. :roll:


Lane, regardless if those 2 quotes show concern or not, she wanted to find out what reasons/motivations for them voting after her, yeah it's RVS, but there has to be a reason and whether it's RVS/serious/previous encounters etc. She will only find that by asking questions, I couldn't care less if it shows concern or not. Or am I reading it all wrong. If so, I apoligise.
I was slightly curious why they chose to sheep me over Spade's wagon, but mostly I was just trying to create discussion and get out of RVS. It was a random question.



Page three


Didn't see much worth commenting on.


Page four


Nothing catching either, apart from that buddying as stated earlier in page one. That makes me nervous.


Page five


MDS Post #116 RVS is a good tool to use, in my honest opinion. It sometimes can be used a indicator to things, get to know how people handle things etc etc, I've seen scum try set the tone early on the game and try maintain the same mentality than joining into it. Setting the tone, creating patterns, making pockets, creating avenues and just allowing the town to be sucked in, is something scum would like to do, rather than joining on town, makes more suspicion jumping on. . (However that is obviously dependant on how experienced that scum team are.) It can't all be used as 100% concrete facts.
Thanks, all that tells me is that RVS is useful to scum. And I'm not scum, soooo... Can I continue hating it now? :cop:



Page six


Lane post #131 for some strange little reason, I see town frustration. Mainly gut feeling.
Erhm, I can plausibly see both town!lane and mafia!lane getting frustrated at that.


Charloux post #141, how going from one scum read to another thing being brought up, how does that make it fake? It could be possibly he sees something bigger than you right now (albeit brought up by kingoncelt), doesn't make his read on you, fake.
Reminder: you can use [pøst]#141[/post] tags to make it a hyperlink. I had to dig through the pages to find those two posts. Just something to keep in mind in future, thanks. ;) (sorry about the umlaut, idk how to parse BB code here)
Also, I already asked him that same question.


"Btw i'm 90% certain that this is Lane's town game. He seems to like being unpleasant as town when pushing hard. Or am i wrong?"

Your 90 % sure, but what is with the question on the end? What answer you aiming for here?
I think that's a bit far-fetched but points for the effort.


That's where am pretty much up too, the last two pages will have to come tomorrow.
All right.

tl;dr
I don't agree with some things and I think Kop's reads are a bit too preliminary but atm I don't think he's scum.



Hi bangthemafia! I hope you'll enjoy the game and your time on the site. :]

Spoiler: Vivisection of bangthemafia's catch up
In post 180, bangthemafia wrote:Caught up finally!

The whole Charl - Mini interaction was interesting. When it was happening, it initially looked like townies nudging for scumtells, then I thought atleast 1 of them is a scum but as it went on for a bit too long- I started to get a feeling that both are townies. No reason why a scum would pick fight so early and come in limelight unless they are too experts.
But then again, it was Charl who started and not Mini.
So can see a scum-Mini getting defensive. But I am townreading both as of now. I also liked Mini's reads in general and her proactive scumhunting.
I don't get the part in green. Do you think I'm an expert and Charl isn't? Because I can totally assure you I am not. :mrgreen:


@Lane- His interrogation of Mini also looked legitimate. Mild town vibes.
@Mini- can you elaborate your Lane vote. I didnt understand the reason.
I thought he said "I wasn't scumhunting" and I voted before I realised he was being sarcastic. It was a misunderstanding.


@Alban- I dont think a scum will make such a silly scumslip as to ask the partner to put an avatar. So Alban, Tiger Moth, SAJ, Spade- null reads as of now. Kop hasnt posted a single post.
I don't think so either. I know alban, he's way smarter than that.


@FoD has a weird playstyle. Dont know whether that happens to Hydras due to 2 heads! His too early clearance to some people, frequent vote shifting, in #92 his open buddying with Mini against Lane, earlier RVSing people to L-3 etc all is too text book scummy to be true. Paradox, but that makes me slot him as a reckless townie rather than a scum. But I have to watch him closely.
Um. That's... a pretty terrible read honestly. There's no such thing as too scummy to be true. And I don't think he was being textbook scummy. Or a reckless townie for that matter. I don't think any of those things you pointed out as "scummy" are alignment indicative this early in the game, especially for someone like Fountain.


FoS-
@Kling- Mildly scummy to me for basically suspecting people and for reasons that are either trivial (Alban for that avatar thing) or not agreeable to me (Mini) or too obviously scummy to be true (FoD). But he could be a paranoid townie as well.
Klingoncent is female. Also I don't think she's evil, but yeah her reads are rubbish.


@Gamma- You are actually voting someone for asking someone to get an avatar? Are you serious?? Also, what scumslip you see in your #101? Please elaborate.
I think he already elaborated.


@Creature- Not much content, posted just one liners (#19,20 etc), instead arguing about trivial things like why you lied (#22). His "not wanting to bring RVS wagon to L-1" also sounded weird & suspicious.
Why is it suspicious? He thought Gamma was at L-2 and explained why he won't vote him. End of story.


Need to observe more from many others.

tl;dr
Very bad reads, but this being bang's first forum mafia game I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he's deliberately bamboozling the town into a mislynch.
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Post Post #209 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:00 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

In post 183, Klingoncelt wrote:
Alban
, if you're very familiar with Spade's play then you had no reason to ISO him here. My original scumread stands. You two share the Scum PT.
He literally saw his friend, clicked his profile out of curiosity, and told him in the game thread to put a display picture. This is a really silly reason to FoS alban. Like, even if they did share the scum PT and alban wanted to tell him to put an avatar, he'd have done it IN THE BLOODY SCUM PT. Because alban isn't an idiot.

Like, even if he *is* scum, he's not scum for that thing in particular.

In post 187, Klingoncelt wrote:In recent games I was in the fake/forced thing came from one of my correct Scumreads.

So. The Scumteam is:
Alban
MiniDeathStar
Spade_Ace
Fountain of Dreams
I take it this isn't the first time someone has called your reads forced? Can't possibly imagine why. /s
How confident you are, 1 being "hunch" and 10 being "literally modconfirmed", that the scumteam is in those 4 and they all just happened to be so obvious that you found them on page 1?

In post 194, Klingoncelt wrote:Because reasons.

I can't say too much at this point in time, but what I saw is becoming site meta.
Meta is super unreliable. Like for example, I've only been on the site for a month and I haven't finished a single game yet. I've literally no idea what the site meta is so how could I have taken part in it?

In post 198, Klingoncelt wrote:Okay, the Mafia are 3 of those 4.

If there's a Serial Killer he/she might be outside that group.
Again, you can't be positive you've found 3 scum on page 1, based on the reasons you gave + "site meta". Assuming you're actually town, chances are you'll be tunneling the wrong people all game while the mafia rofl at you, or you'll have found some scum by pure luck like I feel you've done before.

Either way, I think your reads are total rubbish and I'll likely ignore any future read you happen to conjure in case your rock solid confidence wavers.
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Post Post #210 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:49 pm

Post by Secret Agent Jin »

I typed out a long post and my delete key got stuck deleted it all. Anyways, this is what i saved from it.

I think you are a bit of a scumread MDS. You spoilered the other two people that you picked apart but left your post on Klingon wide open and i think that was on purpose. I believe she might have hit close to the truth with her scumlist and you wanted it seen that you were defending yourself to distance yourself from the others. Your whole post quoting Klingon reads as you panicking to me. As far as you being here a month and not finishing a game, i only have one other game to base my experience with you on and we both know how that went, i wont say anymore on that. I will give it to you that you argue your points well but i am waiting for the other shoe to drop with your playstyle. I believe you are deliberately picking Klingon apart for reasons other than you really believe she is scum. Call it scum deflecting blame on a town.

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Post Post #211 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:50 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Bwuh?
That's a really odd thing to note.
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Post Post #212 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:52 pm

Post by Secret Agent Jin »

How confident you are, 1 being "hunch" and 10 being "literally modconfirmed", that the scumteam is in those 4 and they all just happened to be so obvious that you found them on page 1?
Also, this part of your post on Klingon looks like you are trying to pull information out of her as to her role/alignment so you can judge how much threat she poses to
your
the scumteam.
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Post Post #213 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:12 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

Hello Secret Agent Jin. Nice to meet you again!

I spoilered the two posts because they were long af and I just thought I'd respond inline instead of quoting piece by piece. Klingon just happened to be spread over several short posts and that's why I made a separate post for her.

Now about that. How is defending myself "distancing" from others? In case you hadn't noticed I defend a lot of people, including alban who is on that same scumlist of Klingon's. Her biggest FoS actually. Does that look like distancing to you?

And the other thing, I don't really think Klingon is scum. She blatantly shoves her FoSes in everyone's face, insists on her flimsy, vague reasoning, and expresses super confidence ("the 3 scum are there", "my vote is parked", etc). She can't possibly expect anyone to sheep those votes right now. Doesn't strike me as a scum move; scum would prefer to persuade townies into a mislynch from behind the curtains.

That's why I think she's town, but I think her reads are very bad (as in poorly reasoned) and sticking with them is just very poor play. Even if she's actually found scum (because other than me I can't guarantee that the rest on her list aren't scum), that would be sheer luck. So I'm trying to dissuade her from chasing wild geese and get her to open her mind to the possibility she could be wrong. I am definitely not "deflecting blame" and I don't know where you got that from. My read on her from was preliminary.
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Post Post #214 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:14 pm

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Ok... I can't... Are we really going to believe SAJ that he had this super long post but his delete key cut stuck so he's just there frantically trying to get it to stop deleting his post while watching his whole post be deleted and got it to stop at that part???

@saj, Pretending that actually happened, what was the first part of your big post? Summarize it
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Post Post #215 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:17 pm

Post by Tiger moth »

In post 67, MiniDeathStar wrote:He had voted me because he thought I was lying. I clarified I wasn't and he accepted my explanation, but didn't unvote me. I was asking if he had another reason to vote me, and added the wink to make my tone less serious so it wouldn't look like I was continuing to grill him. I didn't think either wagon was going anywhere or moving the game forward so I just wanted to get past all that.
The wink seemed placatory to me. If your question was genuine it shouldn't have needed it.

In post 80, Klingoncelt wrote:Did Spade post something before these posts were made? If yes, why was it then deleted?
I didn't see any post from him.


I like alban's .

Lane's was good.

@ Secret Agent Jin: Was your vote in rvs?
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Post Post #216 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:47 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

In post 212, Secret Agent Jin wrote:Also, this part of your post on Klingon looks like you are trying to pull information out of her as to her role/alignment so you can judge how much threat she poses to
your
the scumteam.
Um, that's not what I would do as scum. Like, at all. (I was actually going to explain why but I don't think publicly revealing how I play as scum, or giving the real scum ideas would be a very bright move on my part. So let's just leave it at that.)

What I was actually trying to do was get Klingon to really think hard if she wants to spend the game tunneling 4 players based on a hunch. Because imagine somehow she gets two of them lynched and neither are scum, what happens then? She would have no clue what to do next, no reads, and scum could easily lead a lynch on her.

I'm a very tunnel-y player. I know mistakes are made, and I can see one being made on me right now, so I'm trying to avoid that while there's still a chance.

lane0168 wrote:Ok... I can't... Are we really going to believe SAJ that he had this super long post but his delete key cut stuck so he's just there frantically trying to get it to stop deleting his post while watching his whole post be deleted and got it to stop at that part???
LOL. I totally missed that part. That's actually hilarious. :mrgreen: Poor Jin. In future, Lazarus form recovery is your friend. ;)

Tiger moth wrote:
In post 67, MiniDeathStar wrote:The wink seemed placatory to me. If your question was genuine it shouldn't have needed it.
Please tell me you're not overanalysing my emote. Like, read the question without the wink. It sounds way more serious than I wanted it to. I was done interrogating Charlie at that point and just wanted to clarify the argument between us was over.

Can it please now really be over?
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Post Post #217 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

Tiger's quote is messed up but idc, she knows what she said.
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Post Post #218 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:53 pm

Post by Fountain of Dreams »

In post 210, Secret Agent Jin wrote:Your whole post quoting Klingon reads as you panicking to me.
How did you interpret it as panicky?
In post 210, Secret Agent Jin wrote:As far as you being here a month and not finishing a game, i only have one other game to base my experience with you on and we both know how that went, i wont say anymore on that.
Why did you bring up this sentence then? What was the purpose of it?
In post 210, Secret Agent Jin wrote:I will give it to you that you argue your points well but i am waiting for the other shoe to drop with your playstyle.
What's the other shoe in her playstyle?
In post 212, Secret Agent Jin wrote:
How confident you are, 1 being "hunch" and 10 being "literally modconfirmed", that the scumteam is in those 4 and they all just happened to be so obvious that you found them on page 1?
Also, this part of your post on Klingon looks like you are trying to pull information out of her
as to her role/alignment
so you can judge how much threat she poses to
your
the scumteam.
Referring to the bold, how would Kling's reply be role/alignment indicative?
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Post Post #219 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:59 pm

Post by Fountain of Dreams »

In post 210, Secret Agent Jin wrote:I believe she might have hit close to the truth with her scumlist
So you agree with her scumlist? And her reasons?
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Post Post #220 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:22 pm

Post by Tiger moth »

In post 182, Fountain of Dreams wrote:Bang's catch-up was bad.Kop's catch-up was bad.
What was bad about them?

In post 213, MiniDeathStar wrote:I spoilered the two posts because they were long af and I just thought I'd respond inline instead of quoting piece by piece. Klingon just happened to be spread over several short posts and that's why I made a separate post for her.
Why force people to take that extra step to read your comments? Replying inside the quote is annoying if anyone wanted to quote what you said because it would have to be separated out. And last but not least, I had to highlight your comments to read them as they don't show up clearly against the MafSilver colour scheme.

The defence of Klingon in that post looked ott. If she was scum wouldn't that be a great way to hide?


Up to date now.
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Post Post #221 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:00 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

@Tiger moth:
I had a lot to say and splitting the entire quotes would have taken me super long time and they would have all appeared chopped up. I'm sorry I wasn't considerate with the gold text though; I'm using the black scheme and I haven't really tested what works best across all of them. I'll keep that in mind in future, thank you.

What's 'ott'? And sure, maybe. I'm not saying she *can't* be scum; I just don't *think* she is. I can't be certain of anything unless I have evidence.

If Klingon is scum, she may pass under the radar for a while, but I doubt she can last forever. I somehow can't see her surviving to 3-way LYLO and winning with this strategy. I think it's much more likely she'd be policy-lynched when most of her scumreads die as town and her confidence flops. In my experience towns that mislynch a couple times and lose their leaders to nightkills eventually grow paranoid of lurking scum and start lynching the kind of people that mafia would never kill while they still have the chance.

So for the moment I feel safe ignoring Klingon and focusing on other potential suspects. I might revisit her later in the game if I have to.
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Post Post #222 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:20 pm

Post by Secret Agent Jin »

Pretending that actually happened, what was the first part of your big post? Summarize it
I did in my post, it was just repeating some points already said in the same post and elaborating on the "i will leave it at that" part which i decided to put that as what i had typed was from a different game and i didnt feel right dragging it into this unrelated game.
Was your vote in 142 rvs?
Yeah, the Trans head of fountain upset me in a previous game and i just placed my vote as a way to jokingly get back at him. All RVS.

My post addressing MDS will follow
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Post Post #223 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:24 pm

Post by Transcend »

In post 79, Fountain of Dreams wrote:
DO NOT MENTION ONGOING GAMES OR EVENTS THAT OCCURRED IN ONGOING GAMES
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Post Post #224 (ISO) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:49 pm

Post by Secret Agent Jin »

How is defending myself "distancing" from others?
I actually missed your defense of alban, my bad. Are you saying its the opposite? Defending fellow scum? Just curious.
Also, i really thought there would be more for me to reply to, most of her post was just statements that i feel are reply-worthy. I will however reply to Fountains' posts in this one.
How did you interpret it as panicky?
It just felt and read as panicky to me, no reasn behind the word i used.
Why did you bring up this sentence then? What was the purpose of it?
It is from a different game, that game and this one have no relation but i did notice a bot of her playstyle and noted she was headed in the same direction. I am not bringing up any past games. Also, i dont know what the other shoe in her playstyle is but it feels as though she was going to keep on talking about Klingon and i didnt know if she was exactly done.

how would Kling's reply be role/alignment indicative?
I was referring to the fact that Klingon might slip or MDS might read her one way and be able to form an opinion on Klingon's alignment which she could use to gauge the threat against the scum team.
So you agree with her scumlist? And her reasons?
I think it is less that i agree with Klingon's scumlist and more that i read MDS as scum and if in the end she is, tha would put a suspicious gaze on the other members of Klingon's scumlist. I guess on the end i view the others on the list as guilty by association.

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