Open 657: JK9++ (Game over)

[Klingoncelt]

You are losing sight of the simplest and most probable explanation, and going after your favorite explanation. Also, I feel you have made up your mind about me, and you are now viewing everything in the light of justifying your reads.
Look at the joining date of Spade and the day when Rando sent the game start message. 2 weeks interval in between. I wanted to know what Spade has been upto. Has he participated in any games? How is he doing? Has he started posting? Where is he posting? etc. Obviously, the intention behind visiting his profile (and Bang's) was not to read him better coz I already know him, but because I was concerned about his getting on with the site. Mafiascum can be overwhelming and I wanted this to be smooth for him. In the process, the first thing I noticed was the absence of avatar. Which I mentioned here. I could have PM'd him. But that would be outside the rules of the game.

So in 2 weeks' time you couldn't message Spade about the avi.

Isn't it just a little creepy that you're gooning on your bud's profile without leaving a message?

Jeez, people, help me lynch this.

[Klingoncelt]

I know Alban's playstyle. A scum-Alban would never do that. On the other hand, I am really worried why you are so fixated with that one Avatar thing.

*sigh*

Alban told Spade to get an avi. Good advice, one should do that when one sees that one's friend doesn't have an avi. Problem is, Spade had not yet posted, so how did Alban know there was no avi?

Alban noticed in the Scum PT.

Alban claimed that no, he went to Spade's profile, because he likes to ISO the players and study before a game. He noticed the lack of avatar there.

Spade shows up and says that Alban is an old friend and very familiar with his playstyle.

Alban then changed his story to say he was checking up on Spade to make sure Spade was adjusting well to this new site. Except Alban never bothered to PM Spade, which is kinda creepy if you're crawling all over someone's profile to see how they're doing.

It is pretty clear that Alban can't keep his story straight.

Please help me lynch Alban today.

[Klingoncelt]

tbh ill give something that kling likes and i like as well

VOTE: Spade_Ace

Thank you.

VOTE: Spade_Ace

[Klingoncelt]

Gamma and Klingon - I feel, their query regarding alban and the avatar, was just a well intended attempt at detecting scumslips. They were justified in wanting to know why alban wrote about the avatar without me having posted even once. But once evidence against the contrary is provided i expect them to back off the issue. Gamma did it and this gives me a townread from him. But Klingon continues to make an issue of something that has been shown to be a nonissue. One possibility is that she is just misguided. Another, is that she could be a scum who wants to aggressively engage with a town player and then kill him/her at night. Then claim innocence by saying, "look, as a scum i would never have engaed with someone so much in the day and then kill him at night cos i know that would make me a suspect".

Do you really think I'm that much of a noob? Check my join date, kid.

Where's this "evidence" you speak of? A crappy excuse that was backtracked and changed to an even crappier excuse?

You and Alban are Scum.

Along with Mini/Fountain.

[Klingoncelt]

Nice changing your vote, Fountain.

Back to my first choice:

VOTE: Alban

[Spade_Ace]

@Klingon Cool, you can think whatever you want.

[bangthemafia]

motivation for this game slowly being lost

sorry to my other head

(this isn't a sub out post btw)

alban's town

charloux's town

creature's town

gamma's town

kling's town

kop's scum VOTE: Kop

idk about bang anymore

lane's prob town

uhhhh saj is i have no fucking idea yo seriously

mini i dk either mixed opinions holy shit who am i missing

spade can be in the scumpile

we're town

uhhhhhhhhhhh

idk who i forgot

lynch one of kop or spade imo.

tbh ill give something that kling likes and i like as well

VOTE: Spade_Ace

have a ogod noight

Alban might be scum guys
he's still voting me from RVS

No

@Tiger moth:

I had a lot to say and splitting the entire quotes would have taken me super long time and they would have all appeared chopped up. I'm sorry I wasn't considerate with the gold text though; I'm using the black scheme and I haven't really tested what works best across all of them. I'll keep that in mind in future, thank you.

What's 'ott'? And sure, maybe. I'm not saying she *can't* be scum; I just don't *think* she is. I can't be certain of anything unless I have evidence.

If Klingon is scum, she may pass under the radar for a while, but I doubt she can last forever. I somehow can't see her surviving to 3-way LYLO and winning with this strategy. I think it's much more likely she'd be policy-lynched when most of her scumreads die as town and her confidence flops. In my experience towns that mislynch a couple times and lose their leaders to nightkills eventually grow paranoid of lurking scum and start lynching the kind of people that mafia would never kill while they still have the chance.

So for the moment I feel safe ignoring Klingon and focusing on other potential suspects. I might revisit her later in the game if I have to.

Sorry for being so grumpy last night. I was very tired.

ott = over the top

Judging by Klingon's join date and post count I doubt she's going to continue like that. How are you so sure that most of her scumreads are town? Looks like you're preparing the ground for a future mislynch or bus (if she's a scumbuddy) here under the guise of a policy lynch.

Bad post. Welcome to the scum pile.

@ Fountain: Did you miss this?

Bang's catch-up was bad.Kop's catch-up was bad.

What was bad about them?

They don't look genuine.

Anyways, other head wants this and I don't tr this either.

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

Pedit: p sure Creature is a mislynch but i can't remember for the life of me why I think so.

Are you kidding? You are changing your votes almost once on every page! And you call Kling a town distraction? Nothing wrong in changing votes, but atleast give us some reasons, some explanation, will you? Just as I try to ignore my instincts again and again and believe that you are a reckless townie, you come up with something like Creature is mislynch but I cant remember why I think so? Seriously!

[bangthemafia]

@Gamma:

I don't see a scumslip?

It feels like a cop-out for an inexcusable action.

Gamma, can you elaborate on this?

[bangthemafia]

By textbook scummy I meant the usual tells that a scum may slip. In our whatsapp games, where I come from, if someone does any of these, they sure turned out to be either scummy or a reckless/too-casual-to bother townie. But since it was too early in the game, and you all are quite used to mafiascum forum, I guessed showing these traits so early in the game was more townish. I also read Open 658 and realized Transcend head of FoD is used to doing all this. Thats why I actually kinda cleared him though I get irritated with such players.

I don't think any of them were remotely alignment indicative. Early clearance doesn't mean you forget about that person for the rest of the game. Some people can get townreads early, through meta and stuff. Mafia in particular would want to keep the list of suspects as wide open as possible, so handing out townreads like Halloween candy is kind of like shooting themselves in the foot - unless they try to townread their scumpals. Which we can't know at this stage, so it's null.
Frequent vote shifting - again, some people do that a lot, especially early in the game. I don't agree with it, but I don't think it's scummy.
RVSing people to L-3 happens all the time here. Those wagons never last.
So basically none of that is any kind of scummy or reckless townie. It's just things I've learned to ignore.

Ok. I never said my early clearance meant ignoring for the rest of the game. And whatever FOD is, he is a big distraction himself, thats for sure.

@Creature- Not much content, posted just one liners (#19,20 etc), instead arguing about trivial things like why you lied (#22). His "not wanting to bring RVS wagon to L-1" also sounded weird & suspicious.

Why is it suspicious? He thought Gamma was at L-2 and explained why he won't vote him. End of story.

Maybe. But it was hardly 20 posts till then. Gamma was actually at L-3. So is it impossible that Creature used FoD's double vote to fence sit and more than that announced to all that "yes, I am concerned about the wagons and so I am not voting" to get some towncred? I am not saying he is scum for sure but then also not "Clearly end of story" as you make out that to be.

I think Occam's razor is that Creature entered the game during RVS, saw I (mistakenly) commented Gamma was at L-2, and decided he wouldn't vote him because he didn't want an accidental RVS lynch (it's happened before). Otherwise he'd have joined the wagon, as people usually do during RVS. Both scum and town Creature could have done that so I think it's pointless to overanalyse it. That's why I said end of story. If you're building a case on someone, you should use things that you can't easily explain or rationalise from a town POV.

Agree. But I cant explain or rationalize Creature's lurking anymore. I went through his Game 658, and he seemed quite active there.

[bangthemafia]

@fountain ,why do you ignore several people asking why you said nevermind on page 1?

Yes. FoD, can you answer this one? ALso, you seem to be interrogating a lot of people, and then dishing out your verdict. It will be great if you could insert an intermediate step of sharing with all why you thought so

[bangthemafia]

Alright, i have read the last page and a half and i was WAY out there in suspecting MDS. I dont know what my yesterday self was thinking and i am 100% backing off for now. I didnt even have good reasons for going after MDS. I am placing MDS under null, no more scum.

Uhm, if I were scum, I'd obviously know if Klingon was scum or not. Why would I need to get a read on her alignment?

As far as this goes, i was more saying that the scum could figure out if she was a vanilla townie or a PR and act accordingly.

My brain is still on morning mode so if i missed anything that anyone feels needs answering, state it again and i will answer.

If Klingon alignment slipped wouldn't that be a good thing? As far as PR slipping goes, how would that happen in the first place?

That would be a good thing as we could then question who was against Klingon. I absolutely have no idea why i was so adamant on MDS last night.

Can you restate why you scumread MDS again?

I originally scumread MDS because her posts against Klingon looked way too defensive. I then proceeded to speak out of my butt without much evidence to back up my claim. I REALLY jumped the gun on MDS, all i can ask is for her forgiveness and that it be out to rest.

OH! I almost forgot

UNVOTE:

WTF??
A 180 degree turn and with apologies!!??

[bangthemafia]

DAE think that Secret Agent Jin cease and desist was weird af? I've literally never seen that in any game I've ever played.

Yes. I do think its weird. He joins my scumpile for that

[bangthemafia]

I know Alban's playstyle. A scum-Alban would never do that. On the other hand, I am really worried why you are so fixated with that one Avatar thing.

*sigh*

Alban told Spade to get an avi. Good advice, one should do that when one sees that one's friend doesn't have an avi. Problem is, Spade had not yet posted, so how did Alban know there was no avi?

Alban noticed in the Scum PT.

Alban claimed that no, he went to Spade's profile, because he likes to ISO the players and study before a game. He noticed the lack of avatar there.

Spade shows up and says that Alban is an old friend and very familiar with his playstyle.

Alban then changed his story to say he was checking up on Spade to make sure Spade was adjusting well to this new site. Except Alban never bothered to PM Spade, which is kinda creepy if you're crawling all over someone's profile to see how they're doing.

It is pretty clear that Alban can't keep his story straight.

Please help me lynch Alban today.

What?! Talk about fixation! Cant you think of a simpler townie explanation, Kling? Where did Alban change his story? I thought he just said he was seeing the players profile for this game and noticed Spade without an avatar. Isnt it possible that Alban saw Spade's profile first time only after the game started. Noticing that someone joined 1 week back does not mean that you have seen their profile 1 week back. Alban can very well be a scum. All I am saying is that first you are using wrong reason to slot him as scum. Two, you are fixated on that and not even ready to consider any other possibility. Three, you are actually reaching others to come vote him for your reason.

[Charloux]

--------------------Town read
MDS, Jin, Lane
Bangthemafia
--------------------Null=Alban, Spade_Ace
Fountain of dream'z
Klingoncelt
--------------------Scumread

Haven't perceived{Read their posts but didn't receive any kind of signals[They have a low presence]}:
Tiger moth
Creature
Kop

[Spade_Ace]

DAE think that Secret Agent Jin cease and desist was weird af? I've literally never seen that in any game I've ever played.

Yes. I do think its weird. He joins my scumpile for that

Bang is he in your scumpile just cos you find his U turn weird?...would you have preferred if he stuck to his initial stance?...he realised an error in his initial reasoning and corrected it immediately.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma:

I don't see a scumslip?

It feels like a cop-out for an inexcusable action.

Gamma, can you elaborate on this?

Dude put me at L-3 and went "Oh I didn't notice the name"
Not buying it

[lane0168]

@Gamma:

I don't see a scumslip?

It feels like a cop-out for an inexcusable action.

Gamma, can you elaborate on this?

Dude put me at L-3 and went "Oh I didn't notice the name"
Not buying it

That didn't happen. Unless you meant "oh I didn't notice, the name"

[Gamma Emerald]

Meh, didn't even notice till now. The word Gamma just drew me in
Why are you concerned about the wagon?

Just read the post

[lane0168]

I don't think l-3 is inexcusable though.

[lane0168]

I'm just going to disagree with it. Let's not get into a pointless argument

[bangthemafia]

DAE think that Secret Agent Jin cease and desist was weird af? I've literally never seen that in any game I've ever played.

Yes. I do think its weird. He joins my scumpile for that

Bang is he in your scumpile just cos you find his U turn weird?...would you have preferred if he stuck to his initial stance?...he realised an error in his initial reasoning and corrected it immediately.

I didnt mean I expect him or anyone to be rock solid with their votes. I said it was weird how he made a U turn after MDS's #236. You say he realized his error. I felt it could be chickening out of a scum. I am not very sure, thats why not voting. But I will sure keep him in my scumpile. Anything wrong with that?

[Creature]

Okay, bang is probtown.

[Charloux]

Meh, didn't even notice till now. The word Gamma just drew me in
Why are you concerned about the wagon?

Just read the post

I don't think it's AI when you just vote for an interesting name in RVS and not bother looking if others just happened to vote for the same guy before you.

[Creature]

lane must also be town.

[Creature]

Hell, I need to reread the whole thread.