Newbie 1758 - Symmetry (Game Over)

[Psyche]

really diffident
policy lynches are bad; it's better to lynch scum

[Human Sequencer]

117 is pinging me, my vote stands.

[Psyche]

I can see what you mean, but you really should try to articulate or at least guess out loud why content "pings" you if you want your vote to move discussion forward.

[Human Sequencer]

I'm trying to learn to be more concise and succinct, but you're entirely right. That's a contentless post.

117 pings me because it reads manufactured to me. I understand her school situation, but apart from that, I read 'Tell me exactly why you scumread me so I can defend myself better' as a bad sign, especially when it's this early in the day and she really doesn't have any need to be concerned about herself.

[Psyche]

read this post as a not-at-all-patronizing nod of approval

[Joshz]

Hey so I'm in class right now but I'll make a longer post later today about people's concerns about me when I have more time to read through the thread. Is there anything aside from the word choice argument that I haven't addressed already? Or any other questions y'all have for me?

Don't make a longer post about people's concerns, make a longer post about the rest of the game. This isn't sobolev TV, convince us you're town through scum hunting, not through defensive play.

[Loopdan]

policy lynches are bad; it's better to lynch scum

At the risk of derailing the thread... hear me out: I think in certain situations a Day 1 PL is preferred to a lynch based on reads. Day 1 in Newbie games results in mis-lynched town more often than random chance would. In other words, town would lynch scum more often Day 1 if everybody just voted randomly until a lynch was achieved. Town is very bad at Day 1 because scum has a huge information advantage early game. Maybe policy lynching an un-sortable or anti-town player is the way to approach Day 1 in Newbies.

Once my alt account qualifies as an SE, I'm going to /in some Newbie games, try this theory out, and see how quickly that play will get me scum-read.

[Loopdan]

@SS - I'd like to hear what you think about Hellfire Missile. Do you think HM is as newbie as he appears to be?

[Psyche]

I think policy lynching and similar bad habits are part of

why

Day 1 in Newbie games results in so many mislynched town.

[Sobolev Space]

Finally got some free time. Per Joshz's suggestion I'll mostly offer comments on other stuff but if people have questions about my specific actions I'm happy to answer them.

I want to know what you think the motivations are for the players that are saying you are scummy. In other words, from your POV are they scum motivated or misguided town?

So far its just you, HS and some suspicion from Psyche but not an actual vote or anything. I think some of it is just to add pressure and see how I react since not much else is going on in this game like Sequencer said:

Loopdan does drive a convincing argument.
I'm gonna join for pressure. If we get to L-1, I'm retracting.

Aside from that I think its just being misguided/me articulating myself poorly. Though Loopdan was pushing for me a little at the beginning it wasn't a hard enough push for me to think they're scum. I also feel like scum would be trying to hang back and only join a wagon once it looks like it has a lot of steam but idk enough about the meta here.

[Sobolev Space]

@SS - I'd like to hear what you think about Hellfire Missile. Do you think HM is as newbie as he appears to be?

Haven't looked through their other game and since it sounds like its unfinished I feel like I shouldn't so I can't comment on that discussion. It seems to me like HM has been trying to stay below the radar and pop in every now and then to post newbie sounding posts without a lot of content. I'm not really sure what motive town or scum would have to try to appear newbie when they really aren't though.

[Xalxe]

Vote Count 1.3

Numbers don’t lie. But humans using numbers lie all the time.

Joshz (2)

: Jackel98, HowardRoark

Sobolev Space (2)

: Loopdan, Human Sequencer

DayahaangRai (1)

: Sobolev Space

HowardRoark (1)

: Joshz

Not Voting

: DayahaangRai, Psyche, Hellfire Missile

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-11-27 08:47:44)

[DayahaangRai]

Hello everyone.

I will try to read all pages soon.

And may i get a very short summary just to get a normal idea of the current situation for now?

[Psyche]

sry, it's just six pages

[Loopdan]

@SS - I'd like to hear what you think about Hellfire Missile. Do you think HM is as newbie as he appears to be?

Haven't looked through their other game and since it sounds like its unfinished I feel like I shouldn't so I can't comment on that discussion. It seems to me like HM has been trying to stay below the radar and pop in every now and then to post newbie sounding posts without a lot of content. I'm not really sure what motive town or scum would have to try to appear newbie when they really aren't though.

I'm not saying that someone faking their "newbieness" is necessarily scum. I once discovered a "newbie" was faking (he alt-slipped in a prior game) and we lynched him for lying about his experience, only to see him flip town.

[DayahaangRai]

I skimmed read all pages.

3-4 of the pages are filled with nothing. So, I've nothing to start with except for Joshz. And I dont really have much time talking how he is scum. I'll try to post it soon.

And my role have been replaced 2 times, I think that indeed is a town-tell. JK. But it is a thing to be considered.

[Loopdan]

And my role have been replaced 2 times, I think that indeed is a town-tell. JK. But it is a thing to be considered.

Why do you think it should be considered? After consideration, what conclusions do you think we should come to and why?

[Joshz]

If you guys want to keep building your awful wagon on me I can't stop you and this hasnt been the most enjoyable game so whatever but if anyone hammers me before I get a chance to post lynch them. Idc who it is. They are really scum. And so no noobie can take the copout: I have 2 votes on me right now. It is 5 to hammer. Also, the fact Rai "is going to tell you why I'm scum" is not only bad for the projected confidence but also because he hasn't actually placed a vote on me despite me being not only his strongest but also his only scum read, which is very off.

[Joshz]

And why none of you feel compelled to reply to my Howard post is beyond me because there really hasn't been much to go off of itg

[HowardRoark]

@Joshz: My vote generated pressure and a reaction. That's the intent.
UNVOTE: Joshz

@Loopdan: Your Sobolev Space reads make sense to an extent.
@Pshyche: Why doesn't your vote speak to your view on Sobolev Space?

@Joshz: "another example of something that this site views as scummy" (84) leads me to believe that you have reasonable experience. Then you vote a missing player. I gave you to much newbie credit in my unvote.
VOTE: Joshz
Share with us your scum hunting knowledge, and do some.
Do you feel that saying "if I am a townie" versus "as a townie" is a null tell?

FOS: Human Sequencer

"I'm gonna join for pressure. If we get to L-1, I'm retracting." (102)

@Hellfire Missile (and others): Mafia, especially in a forum, extraordinarily so in a slower moving game, can be difficult. Have patience. Take the time to play the game, discuss it after it has finished, and build some techniques for future games. Try reading others' posts with an alignment in mind to see if it makes more sense for scum or town to say things as such. There are a few players on here that have been playing a long time and I believe are

really

good. Most of us are still learning a lot.

@Joshz: Weak attempt(121), but I appreciate the effort. Vote stands.

I'm all for a good policy lynch as I believe than can generate material for analysis. Note the important term "good" in there. D1 is not a "good" time. D1 in a newbie game is definitely not a "good" time.

FOS: DayahaangRai

Lazy.

[Joshz]

I do have reasonable experience, from high ranked tos and a couple games on another site. Which is why I can say my wagon is horrible without any bias and every townie on it should feel bad for being on it. And yea, I do think if I am a townie is null. It's true; only you know your alignment ad a townie. Anyone who calls that a scum slip looks worse to me because it's not.

[HowardRoark]

@Joshz: Why is the wagon on you is terrible? Currently Jackel98 and I, and Human Sequencer at one point. Who are the scum among the voters? Why?

[Joshz]

There's probably only one scum out of you 3. I doubt scum would buddy this early with only 2 of them. You seem the most likely. It's terrible because... everything about it is terrible. The logic behind it, the fact it even exists. There's nothing about it that makes it smart town play, meaning it's probably scum driven. However, I consider jackel the least likely out of you 3 to be scum.

Why the fuck am I the only focus btw can the rest of you like start posting without being prompted??? Psyche, you're the IC, what are your reads? The most experienced should take on a town lead role, no? Assuming you are town of course which is a null read for me right now.

[Sobolev Space]

@SS - I'd like to hear what you think about Hellfire Missile. Do you think HM is as newbie as he appears to be?

Haven't looked through their other game and since it sounds like its unfinished I feel like I shouldn't so I can't comment on that discussion. It seems to me like HM has been trying to stay below the radar and pop in every now and then to post newbie sounding posts without a lot of content. I'm not really sure what motive town or scum would have to try to appear newbie when they really aren't though.

I'm not saying that someone faking their "newbieness" is necessarily scum. I once discovered a "newbie" was faking (he alt-slipped in a prior game) and we lynched him for lying about his experience, only to see him flip town.

So you think they might be doing it just for fun? The thing that makes me think HM might just be newbie is that he seemed to legitimately not know the rule about talking about unfinished games and I think even an experienced player pretending to be a newbie might not want to break site wide rules but idk.

What's more concerning is that none of their posts have much content and they haven't posted anything really constructive about other stuff going on in the thread.

[Sobolev Space]

Also since alphabethorical's replacement has started to be more active:
UNVOTE: Alphabetorical/DayahaangRai