Newbie 1758 - Symmetry (Game Over)

[DayahaangRai]

yeah VI was my read too
I think he knows how to play, just not how to play here
site meta is probs really different where he comes from

josh you aren't getting lynched unless we have somebody as retarded as me and misguided as you in this game who isn't already on your wagon

@rai
town was doing nothing, i put my vote somewhere to make something happen. no claims plz
let me go on record saying definitely not keen to get someone lynched
i responded to howard because he asked me a question, lol

Pressure someone to make town do something? Or Make town jump on wagon? And Why did you think voting someone will make town do something?
Why hopping on the BWs on? Why didnt you voted Jackel without voting Sobloev if you had thought she was posting meaningful posts?
Why not mention that before someone questioned? An Un-Vote with a reason would have been nice.

[Human Sequencer]

pressure to make the town do something :^)
regardless of alignment, game's just more fun when it's actually being played
voting made town do stuff, town is now doing stuff

view changed from 'sputnik might be scum, no real reads, worth a shot, got nobody else to vote for rly' to 'lol jackel is lurkaderping'

[Hellfire Missile]

Yo HM. This game isn't a puzzle that's made for you to solve. It's a puzzle you have to solve yourself.

There's 10 players here. 2 of them are scum. You know you're town.

Red alert.

what red alert

[Human Sequencer]

he thinks i could be scum because i said 'you know your town'
scum players know the alignment of the rest of the players

that's one of the ways loopdan is trying to find scum

in reality my advice was for reading people, which is irrelevant for scum, so it makes sense i would say that

[Human Sequencer]

you're*
fuck i hate that

[Loopdan]

According to my experiences in mafia games, Scums rarely get replaced and a 2 replacement of a role is rare for scums. So, The conclusion should be I can be said a near-confirmed townie but I dont expect it fully. Just said it.

Scum replaces out of Newbie games all the time. More often than town if a newbie player rolls it. The circumstances of the replace out matters a lot. I see no reason why your slot being replaced twice gives it town-cred.

[Loopdan]

Also, I know I haven't played well, I'm still left completely stumped if im the idiot for not seeing why people scum read me for what to me is nothing, or if you're the idiots. Nothing else at all has happened in this game because a townie became the single tunnels vision focal point of everything, and mafia has no reason the change it so it's just placating on me. I'm not gonna sign up for a newbie game again. A bit of advice to everyone else: psyche is not lock town. Don't assume because he's the IC that he can't still win for scum. He has given just about no game related content, just helped people, which I'm sure those of you who asked for it appreciate but it's NAI. The fact he's produced absolutely nothing makes him slightly scummier in my eyes. I'd recommend town inspect role check him tonight and call him out tomorrow, it's worth outing yourself if he is scum becauss otherwise he's possibly going to steamroll the game, and if he's town don't say anything because you have no need to.

Ok. You are probably town.

[Loopdan]

Maybe Josh is scum, but my reading of him is as a town VI. He doesn't really know how to play, and that leads him to make mistakes, but the emotional content of his posts seems pretty sincere. I believe him when he spitefully calls the people voting him fucking morons for trying to get him lynched. He probably really believes the town is making a dumb mistake right now.

I agree.

[Joshz]

If I had to pick a scum pair rn it's Howard or psyche with Sobolev or Rai (but note: I don't think Howard AND Rai are scum).

[HowardRoark]

@Psyche: If pointing out the SE assistance and asking for reads (with a please) is pushy . . . It may not be as lengthy as yours but we are, hopefully, helping. Your 188, although self meta, is helpful for understanding your activity.

@DayahaangRai: The lazy was asking for a summary with such a short read.

@Joshz: Thicker skin is helpful. I don't know that anyone is accepting Psyche as town because of the IC status. I'm certainly not. See how this has driven material?
UNVOTE: Joshz

@Human Sequencer: So you believe (after Psyche calls it) that Joshz is just the village idiot, yet haven't really done much to forward anything else.

I don't let up.

201 you seem to be claiming that your vote is actually creating pressure and moving the game forward. You sat on the Joshz wagon then hopped off as it really began to build to chase an absent player.
VOTE: Human Sequencer

[Joshz]

It was more directed at the noobies than you/the other ses, not sure if it happens here but a in a lot of scenarios beginners can start to look at the boost experienced person as the "God role" and trust them a lot more than they should. Especially in situations like here where that God role is being very helpful on a non game related level.

[HowardRoark]

@Loopdan: Is it really a policy lynch if you believe they are being misleading in a way that is detrimental to the town?

Replacing/Flaking is not a good argument for alignment in most cases IMHO. "Game circumstances" is a common argument but nobody knows what's happening during the non-posting time. Each game is to be a commitment by each player; sometimes that just doesn't work out. I've replaced into several games, into bad situations, in different role. It's generally Not Alignment Indicative (NAI) as far as I am concerned. Just an additional wrinkle.

ninja'd

@Joshz: Not giving SE/IC/whatever a pass is good advice. Thanks for sharing. Why are those your scum reads?

[Joshz]

Gut mostly, if I had a real case I'd post it

[Loopdan]

@Loopdan: Is it really a policy lynch if you believe they are being misleading in a way that is detrimental to the town?

Yes, because I think experienced players faking newbness is probably NAI, yet it is anti-town.

[Loopdan]

he thinks i could be scum because i said 'you know your town'
scum players know the alignment of the rest of the players

that's one of the ways loopdan is trying to find scum

in reality my advice was for reading people, which is irrelevant for scum, so it makes sense i would say that

And here you are assuming I'm town.

[Sobolev Space]

Though Loopdan was pushing for me a little at the beginning it wasn't a hard enough push for me to think they're scum. I also feel like scum would be trying to hang back and only join a wagon once it looks like it has a lot of steam but idk enough about the meta here.

@Sobolev Space: Which is it? Scum would push hard or hang back? What are your current reads?

What I meant by that is that if Loopdan was pushing for me harder it would look suspicious and I would think he was scummy for not playing rationally (although pushing hard isn't how I would play if I were scum). Since he wasn't and because loopdan has been trying to drive productive conversation (as far as I can tell) he leans town imo. But overall, given the slow pace of our early game I think scum was probably trying to fly under the radar and hang back.

Reads right now: I think none of the people who have been voted for so far are scum, possibly excepting Jackel98 who I can't tell anything about since they haven't posted in 3(?) days. Here's my tier list from most likely town to least likely town, excluding myself and Jackel98 (for not posting):

1: Loopdan/Joshz/HowardRoark

2: Human Sequencer/Hellfire Missile (hard to read this one but they're acting a little odd)

3: DayahaangRai/Psyche

Read on DR is because I think his post on Joshz seemed to be trying a bit too hard and he seems overly concerned with his own innocence with things like:

According to my experiences in mafia games, Scums rarely get replaced and a 2 replacement of a role is rare for scums. So, The conclusion should be I can be said a near-confirmed townie but I dont expect it fully. Just said it.

Read on Psyche because he hasn't really posted much content as others have mentioned. If he starts giving good reads I'll be more inclined to move him up in the list. Mitigating factor here is that he mentioned early on he plays games as IC differently than he plays normal games which might have a little to do with this but I'm not sure where I draw the line.

[Sobolev Space]

@Sobloev: You had said "Being overly defensive" is a scumtell of yours. Dont you think you are doing the same thing right now? Being overly-defensive especially with 117 where you asked for questions/accusations to defend yourself which means you indeed are being Overdefensive.

Haha I said that when I was town I was overly defensive. I've only played mafia outside of this twice (both f2f) and both times I was town so I can't really comment on what scumtells I would have. I do think I was probably a little overdefensive early in the game but I've been trying to focus less on myself and more on overall reads and comment on the game in my posts since then.

[Jackel98]

School has suddenly become intense. Sorry for the inactivity and lurking. I can find the time to read, but my analysis is not yet complete, and I really don't want to go back to my habits of spouting garbage at all times. I swear I'll post my full reads tomorrow, but, briefly put, DayRai is suspect, as is loopdan.
DayRai might have tried to misrepresent Sobolev by quoting her as saying that she was overly defensive as

scum

, not town. The post-by-post analysis was focused only on Josh, too, giving either summarization or sensationalized attacks. The first could easily have been an accident, but the second looks much worse, especially considering the analysis was only on Josh. It looks more like trying to build a lynch case against Josh than trying to find scum, as the PBPA begins biased against Josh.
Loopdan is slightly less suspicious. What stands out to me is mostly the total lack of... emotion? I'm not sure if that's the word, as he isn't apathetic, just cold. That probably isn't alignment indicative, but it's totally foreign and my gut is freaking out about it. He also points out slips somewhat often? Truly, this one is a gut read.
At first, Josh's anger seemed scummy, or NAI at best, but now his activity and recent responses genuinely justify his emotion.
VOTE: DayahaangRai

[Sobolev Space]

DayRai might have tried to misrepresent Sobolev by quoting her as saying that she was overly defensive as

scum

, not town.

For full disclosure I just looked back at my original post and realized I left it open as to whether I was overly defensive as town or scum. I still think that this means that DR saying me being defensive is a scumtell is misrepresenting my views, however, although it could easily be accidental.

Aside from that what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Although I don't necessarily think that loopdan has shown less emotion than any other people in the game excepting Joshz.

@Psyche/SEs: General theory question. At what point do you think your suspicions of someone should move over to an actual vote on that person? Do you think that you should just always be voting for who you're most suspicious of at the time or do you think that there could be times when you have slight scum reads on a couple people but still aren't voting?

[Xalxe]

Vote Count 1.5

Flirt with death, tease the inevitable, give the void a saucy wink.

Joshz (1)

: DayahaangRai

HowardRoark (1)

: Joshz

Jackel98 (1)

: Human Sequencer

Human Sequencer (1)

: HowardRoark

DayahaangRai (1)

: Jackel98

Not Voting

: Psyche, Hellfire Missile, Sobolev Space, Loopdan

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-11-27 08:47:44)

[Human Sequencer]

Rai feels town tbh, too early to tell, once his playstyle is more fleshed out there's a few things I see could go either way
Sputnik doesn't, maybe
Looks like she's adapting her playstyle to appease to others. At first she claims she's overdefensive as scum, then when josh and I tell her she doesn't need to be concerned about herself this early on and that Josh wants to see more hunting from her, her posts flip over to 'Eh, it's just a few votes on me, I don't care' and 'This is my readslist'. P suss to me. Could be newbie trying to learn how to play properly, but a lot of newbies wouldn't care so much I think
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sobolev Space

@howard
I made an almost baseless push to get a reaction, josh reacted emotionally, josh wagon took off, josh wagon made content, I wasn't needed anymore
I will admit I didn't mean to create such an emotional reaction, though

btw being on the josh wagon gives people light townpoints in my eyes, scum would find it real easy to just let that happen out of the gate, there might be one scum on the wagon but I doubt both are

[DayahaangRai]

UNVOTE: Joshz

VOTE: Human Sequencer

Reasons coming tomorrow, hopefully.


For now, Sequencer Answer this question for me please:
"Why did you think voting someone will make town do something?"

[DayahaangRai]

UNVOTE: Joshz

VOTE: Human Sequencer

Reasons coming tomorrow, hopefully.


For now, Sequencer Answer this question for me please:
"Why did you think voting someone will make town do something?"

Forgot to mention. Reason for not posting reasons today is because i am going to sleep now. About 10 PM here.

[Loopdan]

Loopdan is slightly less suspicious. What stands out to me is mostly the total lack of... emotion? I'm not sure if that's the word, as he isn't apathetic, just cold. That probably isn't alignment indicative, but it's totally foreign and my gut is freaking out about it. He also points out slips somewhat often? Truly, this one is a gut read.
At first, Josh's anger seemed scummy, or NAI at best, but now his activity and recent responses genuinely justify his emotion.

Define "cold." Or maybe better... cite an example from my play this game that you would call cold. I'm not against gut reads, but try and articulate what specifically in my play you think is more likely to come from scum than town.

[Loopdan]

@Psyche/SEs: General theory question. At what point do you think your suspicions of someone should move over to an actual vote on that person? Do you think that you should just always be voting for who you're most suspicious of at the time or do you think that there could be times when you have slight scum reads on a couple people but still aren't voting?

Psyche is the type of player who doesn't vote unless he has a strong scum-read (I think). I often vote whoever is the scummiest at the moment, or even someone who I think might act in an alignment indicative way if pressured by another vote. Different play-styles.