Newbie 1758 - Symmetry (Game Over)

[Joshz]

You should almost always have your vote on someone. It doesn't need to be your biggest scum read: compromising, wanting to lure them into a sense of security for whatever reason, reaction testing, many various other reasons can all stop you from voting your biggest scum read but as a general rule of thumb have a vote on someone.

[Loopdan]

@Joshz-- Can you find an avatar? It would make it easier to follow the game. Thanks.

[Loopdan]

@Psyche-- Do you have any reads at all to share at this point?

[Joshz]

Doesn't me being the only one without an avi make it easy to follow me

[Human Sequencer]

@rai
because it did?

[Joshz]

Did anyone notice how rai was completely confident I was scum ("I will tell you why joshz is scum" along with a post by post analysid) but changed his mind when the wagon was gone?

[Loopdan]

Doesn't me being the only one without an avi make it easy to follow me

No. It makes me not associate your words with an image, which makes it harder to remember what you've said.

[Loopdan]

Did anyone notice how rai was completely confident I was scum ("I will tell you why joshz is scum" along with a post by post analysid) but changed his mind when the wagon was gone?

Yep. And the follow-up post explaining why He isn't giving reasons right now is overly concerned with how players will view his unexplained vote:

UNVOTE: Joshz

VOTE: Human Sequencer

Reasons coming tomorrow, hopefully.


For now, Sequencer Answer this question for me please:
"Why did you think voting someone will make town do something?"

Forgot to mention. Reason for not posting reasons today is because i am going to sleep now. About 10 PM here.

[Human Sequencer]

if that's scum it's pretty horrible scum tbh

[Joshz]

Well, we can see his reasons tomorrow.

[Loopdan]

if that's scum it's pretty horrible scum tbh

So are you saying you think this makes him less likely scum?

[Human Sequencer]

i did think that at the time, but when you point it out that's pretty stupid of me to think

still, i think scum like that will boil themselves alive in this game

[HowardRoark]

@Joshz: Even as gut reads, why not myself and DayahaangRai?

I think none of the people who have been voted for so far are scum

, possibly excepting Jackel98 who I can't tell anything about since they haven't posted in 3(?) days. Here's my tier list from most likely town to least likely town, excluding myself and Jackel98 (for not posting):
1: Loopdan/Joshz/HowardRoark
2: Human Sequencer/Hellfire Missile (hard to read this one but they're acting a little odd)
3: DayahaangRai/Psyche

Excluding RVS, Hellfire Missile and Psych are the only one to have received no votes. Yet Hellfire Missile is in the middle group?

DayRai ... It looks more like trying to build a lynch case against Josh than trying to find scum, as the PBPA begins biased against Josh.

Does that necessarily equal scum?

@Loopdan: (Not game related, but . . . ) The avatar thing was already discussed. I get it, but some people just don't use one. Does it affect your reading when somebody changes theirs?

I think the second "it's late" post is probably NAI.

Regarding voting: It's a technique/style thing. I like to have my vote in play almost always. There are two ways that I find to be effect in pressuring people, generating content, and moving the game forward: meaningful vote and aggressive language. Sometimes they have a desired effect, sometimes they don't.

@Hellfire Missile: I want some content from you. Since you are having difficulties with how to scum hunt, I have an exercise. Analyzing votes (timing, patterns, results) can be useful. Check out the votes for Joshz since that's been our big wagon so far. Think about the timing and stated reason of each vote. Think about them relative to each other. Read them from both playing as scum and playing as town mentalities.

[Joshz]

Becuase I don't think both you and him are scum. I doubt you'd buddy that much d1. My wagon probably had a single scum on it

[Sobolev Space]

I think none of the people who have been voted for so far are scum

, possibly excepting Jackel98 who I can't tell anything about since they haven't posted in 3(?) days. Here's my tier list from most likely town to least likely town, excluding myself and Jackel98 (for not posting):
1: Loopdan/Joshz/HowardRoark
2: Human Sequencer/Hellfire Missile (hard to read this one but they're acting a little odd)
3: DayahaangRai/Psyche

Excluding RVS, Hellfire Missile and Psych are the only one to have received no votes. Yet Hellfire Missile is in the middle group?

I was counting votes on alphabetorical as separate from votes on DR so at the time of my post DR had also received no votes. But I also think that I was the only vote on alphabetorical and that started as RVS (will have to look through the thread to check this).

The reason I said I feel like scum hasn't been voted on is that pages 1-7 are pretty slow moving. I think that if there were any real wagons forming on scum in those pages the scum and their partner would be trying to redirect the discussion which would create more activity. This is one of the reasons I have a medium townread on Joshz.

[Joshz]

Unvote

VOTE: Hellfire Missile

[Sobolev Space]

@Joshz: why the new vote?

[Joshz]

G u t : )

[Hellfire Missile]

@Hellfire Missile: I want some content from you. Since you are having difficulties with how to scum hunt, I have an exercise. Analyzing votes (timing, patterns, results) can be useful. Check out the votes for Joshz since that's been our big wagon so far. Think about the timing and stated reason of each vote. Think about them relative to each other. Read them from both playing as scum and playing as town mentalities.

Okay. I'll try. Thanks for the tip

[Hellfire Missile]

@Hellfire Missile: I want some content from you. Since you are having difficulties with how to scum hunt, I have an exercise. Analyzing votes (timing, patterns, results) can be useful. Check out the votes for Joshz since that's been our big wagon so far. Think about the timing and stated reason of each vote. Think about them relative to each other. Read them from both playing as scum and playing as town mentalities.

Okay. I'll try. Thanks for the tip

what pages?

[HowardRoark]

Excluding RVS, Hellfire Missile and Psych are the only one to have received no votes. Yet Hellfire Missile is in the middle group?

I was counting votes on alphabetorical as separate from votes on DR so at the time of my post DR had also received no votes. But I also think that I was the only vote on alphabetorical and that started as RVS (will have to look through the thread to check this).

That doesn't answer my question about Hellfire Missile's placement.

@Hellfire Missile: Do the leg work. Go back through the game and read.

[Hellfire Missile]

lemme just lay out some ground work so that i can reference this again.

Scum: Want mis-lynches, want to hide from town by appearing town

Town: Want to find and lynch scum, don't want to mis-lynch


People that voted for Joshz (Past or Current): Jackel98, HowardRoark, Loopdan, DayahaangRai

People that Joshz has voted for: Loopdan, (replaced), HowardRoark

[Jackel98]

Loopdan, looking back, I guess I just read your early terseness as being emotionally detached. However, I don't feel it reading your most recent posts.


Now, a table of reads, starting with DayahaangRai, along with my other scum reads. I understand that I'm missing most of their posts, but these are the ones that stood out most.


DayahaangRai

Feels	Post	Response
S	173	This is the slot’s first content post, and it really pings me hard. It starts biased against Joshz, and it continues from there. He doesn’t say whether this is an analysis that was revised multiple times to get his point across, but it looks like confirmation bias to me. Dayahaang started with believing Joshz was scum, and proceeded to gather anything scummy against him. Also, buzzwords. They’re NAI, but are used pretty often to avoid giving long, well thought out reasons. Hypocrisy! OMGUS! Also, this put Joshz at L-1. Woah. Also also, tunneling.
S	184	First paragraph is straight misrepresenting Sobolev. She was being very defensive, yes, but what she had said was that she was always being scum-read for being defensive. The second paragraph is either misrepresenting Human Sequencer or reading too much into it? He says to Sequencer, “Very keen getting someone lynched?” To him, I ask the same. Also might know something about who to push for claims? My last sentence is definitely a stretch, but you never know.
S	222	This is one rollercoaster of reads coming from DayRai. Votes and scum reads on everyone! The Joshz read disappears suddenly, and my strongest town read is now scum.

More to come, tables are hard.

[Jackel98]

Sobolev Space

Feels	Posts	Response
NAI	64	This is the post that many are discussing at the moment. This post is not alignment-indicative overall. I could see newb-town and newb-scum both asking these questions. The “(like me )” can be seen as scum feeling the need to prove their towniness; however, this fits the feel of the rest of the post— that is to say, genuine questions asked by a newbie. Of note is that Sobolev never indicated an alignment when saying she was often called scum.
NAI	73	Living up to what she said, Sobolev is pretty defensive in this post. Her reasoning isn’t flawed, but there is no push against Loopdan other than trying to refute his reasons for voting her. The post feels genuine, but it doesn’t have the raw frustration that Joshz showed against his wagon. Whether this is Sobolev’s play-style is left to be seen, but her testimony and this evidence both give a strong case to the affirmative. She says “so if I’m town” in paragraph 2.
LS	117	I can understand defensiveness, but this is actively looking for ways to become less scummy in this game without giving any reads or other town-helping information.
LS	218	Sobolev Space is trying to be as inoffensive as possible, it seems. Once again, this is quite possibly how personality is, but I am genuinely confused by not refuting DayRai’s attack at all. This is also combined with a total lack of defensive behaviour.

[Jackel98]

Joshz

Feels	Posts	Response
LS	21 30	Naked votes don’t sit well with me, even in RVS. Also, voting someone who had already posted for being “AFK” seems made up. Lying is something that I think caught scum are more likely to do; however, I don’t have any empirical evidence. Not a scum-motivated vote, but the need for a fake, legit reason could easily be paranoia.
LT	42	On the one hand, the part about “building a wagon” could be seen as misrepresenting Human Sequencer. On the other hand, this looks like genuine emotion coming from Joshz. It is an OMGUS vote, but those aren’t alignment-indicative in general, and here it really complements the frustration/anger with Human Sequencer.
NAI	130	Completely and utterly NAI, but I love this after Joshz’s earlier emotion. It is a valid point, however.
NAI	155 157	Just a little something to go with the above post. It isn’t Sobolev TV, it’s the Josh show.
??	179	Showing secret information, or total obliviousness of the Matrix6 setup.

That's all that I have for right now. Sequencer is town, loopdan is still iffy but probably town, Hellfire is annoying, I'm still reading Howard's and Psyche's posts- somehow I skipped them.