Open 657: JK9++ (Game over)

[Kop]

I'm a PR, should I say more than that?

I had this feeling! Damn it!!

Why would you say you won't hesitate to vote for creature, then when a wagon develops to L-1 you question it, and vote for someone else, it just doesn't make sense. You haven't pointed out why you have gone back on what you have said earlier about not hesitating.

Thats because I had noticed something dumbo!!! I noticed this post 878.

I am not useless though.

I felt this is a soft claim but was not sure whether I was right in the first place. And if I right, I didnt know how tp handle it. Thats why I asked several questions on soft claim. In the games we used to play, we always and always kept the softclaims hidden untill the player themselves openly claimed. My fear outing my doubt was bringing a PR on open for nightkill

Softclaims *generally* hurt town and help scum. But if you're town and notice a softclaim, you should out it unless you're a doctor/watcher. It's better that everyone knows instead of just the scum (who should be looking for softclaims always).

Does everyone agree? What if you have noticed something but dont know whether its a soft claim!!!???

In contrast, Spade was in my scumpile and had a viable wagon. In all the games I hav played, when it came to claims, scum always claimed VT. And we have had this discussion of whether scum would like to claim PR or VT. Thats why I questioned the 3 players that shifted from Spade to Creature.

I was about to announce Creature's soft claim when I saw him at L-1 but by then people had unvoted him!

I noticed that. But I'm calling your point about 878 bs because you were still happy to vote creature or any of the other 2 in your post 912.

[Kop]

People not voting are setting us up for a speed lynch that will end in no claim and possibly a lynch on a power role. Get your damn votes out there, its page 36, we don't need some random speed lynch. Start making wagons already theres a day and a half left

Fixed

Completely agree. I am leaving ISOing people. Its taking such a long time and we are so close to deadline. And I have read everything though I would really have loved to ISO rest of the 8 people. At present, I am fine voting Spade or Creature or SAJ or Charl wherever the wagon forms!

So you considered 878 a softclaim that changed your opinion, but in this post which is well after that softclaim you thought was a softclaim, your still happy to vote for creature. So your opinion never really changed like you just said.

[lane0168]

1) Spade claimed VT already. Even if he's town, mafia would never kill him. Plus, town!Spade would discard alban's "scumslip" once and for all.

2) There's no case on alban other than the "scumslip".

3) You could have wagoned Creature. Why didn't you?

You could wagon creature, why aren't you? I didn't because I put my vote on Alban. And I only have 1 vote like everyone else. How could I do both? I wouldn't, but how do you expect I could do both?

[bangthemafia]

Good observation KoP, but u r focussing at wrong place.

Check the progression below in my thought process to understand what I mean.

I was trying to catch up and hence reading posts one by one in ISO. I posted analysis of Creature and Charl's ISO in 872, so by that time I hadn't read 878.

@Bang: If Spade were scum, do you think he would still be protecting Alban, even though he is the second in line to get lynched?

What if both Alban and Spade are scum team? Taking a risk by openly buddying and creating an alibi for day 2?

I don't care about that right now, answer the rhetorical question.

The question itself is the answer. If Spade flips scum, I can almost bet my ass that Alban is his scum partner!

Read this. So when I posted 905, I was thinking of a Alban-Spade scum team and was caught up in answering these questions. I had actually reached only 877 in my reading till then.

I am not useless though.

When I reached 878, I read this, but it did not strike me immediately as a softclaim. At that time I thought that as a reaction to my 872.

People not voting are setting us up for a speed lynch that will end in no claim and possibly a lynch on a power role. Get your damn votes out there, its page 36, we don't need some random speed lynch. Start making wagons already theres a day and a half left

Fixed

Completely agree. I am leaving ISOing people. Its taking such a long time and we are so close to deadline. And I have read everything though I would really have loved to ISO rest of the 8 people. At present, I am fine voting Spade or Creature or SAJ or Charl wherever the wagon forms!

So when I posted 912 and said I am ready to vote Creature, I had just reached 899. Still not realized about 878.

It was only after posting 912, when I read 900 and 902, I suddenly felt "had Creature softclaimed?". Realize that this is when I started asking questions about softclaims. Realize that this came AFTER 912. I was reading and posting simultaneously.

Spade has already softclaimed vanilla townie. Just in case you missed that.

Spade has already softclaimed vanilla townie. Just in case you missed that.

Thank god. I thought people would notice it long back. Realise it is against the spirt of the game. Sorry.

And what would a scum soft claim? As scum??

By the way, I remember someone put another viewpoint against Gamma's advice that soft claims are good. Softclaiming or announcing that you noticed a softclaim can be beneficial to scum. I am a bit confused so want to know what people feel.

In fact even when I raised these questions, I didnt get a consensus, people obviously differed in whether softclaim should be revealed even if one is not sure. To make things worse, Creature later said something about a lynch immunity which was BS. It made me further doubtful about his townie read but i felt like maybe the town should not take that risk.

Still if you are voting me rest assured you will wince nicely. When I flip town, please look carefully into Spade, and the whole Creature wagon especially people who shifted their votes!!

[lane0168]

Ok so exactly what I was trying to avoid is happening. Fucking fantastic

[MiniDeathStar]

I'm not going to lynch someone who I think is town just because NL is so taboo on MafiaScum. I don't care what you think.

[MiniDeathStar]

Ugh, that came out way more blunt than I intended. I'm sorry. Just, please don't get mad at me for not voting the way you want me to.

[lane0168]

I still think gamma and Charloux are buddies. Been really great if we could get one of them lynched

Next choice is Ted, Fountain was just too scummy.

@alban,bang, so you think spade would think of softclaiming VT as scum? Like is that something he's capable of thinking of doing as scum or is that not his style/experience?

Next id vote secret agent jin/bang/alban/spade

Then the rest

Last likely to vote kop and creature

[lane0168]

I'm not going to lynch someone who I think is town just because NL is so taboo on MafiaScum. I don't care what you think.

I don't think you understand, reads can't progress without flips. Flips don't happen without lynches and kills. Nobody benefits from a no lynch day 1 except for scum. How can you be so sure someone is town anyways?

[lane0168]

Like, do you think you're so good you can't be wrong that you'd rather no lynch? When other people think it's right? That's so bad and anti town. But I digress. We'll have enough for a lynch eventually without you I'm sure

[MiniDeathStar]

I literally couldn't care less if Gamma or Charloux die, so I'll hammer either of them.

Just, Spade's reaction to being wagoned and then at L-1 felt town to me. I know he's claimed VT but I don't think I'll get much information out of his lynch.

[Creature]

Okay, lane is still town.

[Creature]

I might sheep you to Gamma or Charloux. Which you feel is most likely scum?

[Creature]

VOTE: TwiszTed

[lane0168]

I literally couldn't care less if Gamma or Charloux die, so I'll hammer either of them.

Just, Spade's reaction to being wagoned and then at L-1 felt town to me. I know he's claimed VT but I don't think I'll get much information out of his lynch.

I agree, hopefully bang and Alban get back to me, because if they think that is something he's capable of as scum or is in his repertoire, then it changes it for me

[Spade_Ace]

@MDS and Creature I don't think charls is scum though. He was the first person to remove vote against me when I was at L-1. I don't find any reason for a scum to do that.

@Lane, Alban and bang would probably say am capable of that

[Creature]

What's your opinion on TwiszTed?

[bangthemafia]

I'm not going to lynch someone who I think is town just because NL is so taboo on MafiaScum. I don't care what you think.

I don't think you understand, reads can't progress without flips. Flips don't happen without lynches and kills. Nobody benefits from a no lynch day 1 except for scum. How can you be so sure someone is town anyways?

Exactly! U put it in better words.

To answer #1057, Scum!Spade is very much capable of claiming as VT. In fact if a scum-he would fake-claim it will almost always be as VT.

[lane0168]

I might sheep you to Gamma or Charloux. Which you feel is most likely scum?

Both. Gamma maybe has the slight edge. I don't think that self vote was town at all. It was just a show to get pressure off himself. And if worked. And just their interactions just seem so... Off, shady, fake. Just makes me feel yucky

[lane0168]

@MDS and Creature I don't think charls is scum though. He was the first person to remove vote against me when I was at L-1. I don't find any reason for a scum to do that.

@Lane, Alban and bang would probably say am capable of that

You thinking he's not scum is the exact reason scum do that

[lane0168]

Surprised you couldn't think of that. That scum sometimes do things to look town

[lane0168]

The fact you couldn't even think of that makes me question if you could think of soft claiming VT as scum

[MiniDeathStar]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald7å/vote]

[MiniDeathStar]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Spade_Ace]

@lane what I meant is I was an easy lynch. Charls wasn't even the one leading the suspicion against me. If he was scum, he could have just waited for someone to hammer. Didnt have to initiate the derailment of the wagon. I think as a scum it is a farfetched tactic.