Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[Raskolnikov]

1999 2000
IAI came into the day with quotes, which looked like a scum pt slip. But in retrospect can come as easily from mason pt.

[MariaR]

1999 2000
IAI came into the day with quotes, which looked like a scum pt slip. But in retrospect can come as easily from mason pt.

You're such a TRYHARD
god I just thought Iai was killed cause a few ppl tr the guy or something

[Raskolnikov]

Now I think about it, IAI kill suggests against maria-gm, as both are likely too lazy to masonhunt and IAI reads-only weren't threatening to that team.

However cloud obviously noticed the slip as he pointed it out, and hoopla is a smart cookie anyways.

[Raskolnikov]

Need a VC.

[Hoopla]

Hello friends!

Well, that's a great flip for us. I feel like the Sotty flip pretty much ensures BlackVoid is town, to the point that any suspicion of him borders on conspiracy theory and I'd be willing to put the game on the line on him being town. Given Jack also looks quite now from that flip, I just don't see BlackVoid taking the line of derailing a town-town wagon battle between Jack/myself and redirecting it onto scum. There were plenty of ways to look good from your positions with regards to mine/Jack's wagon battle, but helping derail it onto scum well you have two mislynches available is some hardcore turbo-bussing that unnecessarily opens the game up for town.

You don't see it every game, but this could very well be the fabled all-town powerwagon that nailed Sotty. The only question mark I have is Raskolnikov, but at this stage I'd rather lynch off the wagon, as I don't think scum double-bussed Sotty and think there's 1-2 scum off the wagon.

Maria's hard defenses of Sotty are a creative stance to take as scum and I'm not sure how adept and intune she is with current meta to make this play (it seems like nobody is too suspicious of her atm), and I'm inclined to believe she's the type that would probably find an opening to bus when the writing was on the wall for Sotty.

goodmorning working furiously to start counterwagons while the Sotty wagon is building (and largely ignoring it and not talking about it until asked) seems suspicious on the surface, and I hesitate to use this line of logic, but it's almost too obvious and I'd her to be more conscious of her reactions during that period of time. And if I'm scum and I'm seeing Sotty going down, I'm definitely not going to play the way goodmorning did - it just looks really fishy pushing unsupported counterwagons while the rest of the town lynches scum. I don't know, I might have to revisit that one later, but that's my initial impression.

Today I'm probably going to lynch between Creature and Cloudkicker. I want to do more of a reread before I vote, so more to come soon. This post gave me the heebie-jeebies though, and makes Cloud my top suspect atm:

And you sotty, i dont want to be a dick to you but you should really fucking step up your game if ur real, like now

"goddamn it Sotty, we really can't afford you to get lynched right now, step up your game so I don't have to suspect your claim more any more"

[Raskolnikov]

Hello friends!

Well, that's a great flip for us.

ewwww

[Hoopla]

Now I think about it, IAI kill suggests against maria-gm, as both are likely too lazy to masonhunt and IAI reads-only weren't threatening to that team.

However cloud obviously noticed the slip as he pointed it out, and hoopla is a smart cookie anyways.

I didn't notice/remember that slip. Although I still don't really understand why they are considered a mason/scum slip? Can't he just have been preparing to talk about TwoFace's reads in the thread?

[Hoopla]

Hello friends!

Well, that's a great flip for us.

ewwww

why do people have a phobia of acknowledging a scumflip? it isn't 2008 any more.

[Raskolnikov]

Hello fellow townies! Sure is great we got that scum lynched yesterday huh?

[MariaR]

Hello fellow townies! Sure is great we got that scum lynched yesterday huh?

ewwwwww

[Hoopla]

Hello fellow townies! Sure is great we got that scum lynched yesterday huh?

Indeed it was! I'm glad you agree old pal.

[CloudKicker]

tf that flip, this is beyond an obvious bus. The sole reason why would mafia get lynched as uncced pr claim is because they got bussed for towncred
now considering the flip im just going to clear jack here

I skimmed troughout the few pages and here some thoughts -> mafia bussed, i defended my opinion on something NAI (not lynching prs the day they claim) and just like on em, i will 100% get pushed on that by mafia because i am an obvious bait, so is maria since we both defended scum, so i expected fully to be pushed by scum today like its happening rn

Vc to be posted eventually, but it was a lynch.

Votecount 1.Final

GreyICE (7)

Sotty7 , VictorDeAngelo , I Am Innocent , Hoopla , BlackVoid , Creature , Raskolnikov LYNCH!,

VictorDeAngelo (4)

goodmorning , GreyICE , MariaR , Jaack ,

Sotty7 (1)

TwoFace ,

Not Voting (1)

CloudKicker ,

Day one deadline is Thursday November 3, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-03 08:00:00)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

[/size]

Heres the vote d1, theres at the very very least 1 mafia voting with sotty on that wagon, would be silly to have 6 towns lynch town there and 2 mafia outside. Vic/IAI are clear, leaves hoop/rask/crea/BV. Outside that wagon is maria -> if maria was mafia with sotty she probably wouldve just voted with sotty there since if i remember, sotty was possibly getting lynched d1? So maria is non-team telling for d1 with sotty and shes most likely town just for that and her stance yday -> grey is cleard, thats leaves goodmorning imho outside the wagon that looks townish too, or at least might be the mafia outside the wagon?, twoface cleared and myself who didnt vote, i was away but i showed intent to hammer for a claim, just like i did with sotty.

I think Arona, BV, creature, and jaack could and should just form a townbloc and lynch everything else. 4/4 excluding me, 4/5 including me.

Imho jaack and arona are the clear in those 4, BV's votes on sotty is pretty darn weird and has been troughout the whole game, i will develop on that eventually. Creature looks good for d1 and votes but he might get po'ed

Not to disrail what's going on here with Maria et al, but I think Cloud is the right lynch today.

His actions surrounding sotty's claim are highly suspect. He gives intent to hammer her, but backtracks after I unvote and start questioning him about his vote, saying he never really intended to hammer her. Then sotty comes in and claims anyway? At L-2? It feels like that was a scum scheme gone awry. Cloud didn't vote for Sotty to put her back at L-1 in case I had a twitchy trigger finger and hammered in spite of her claim.

I was pretty confused by that turn of the events, but it makes more sense after the end of D2 when cloud basically hard defended sotty on the virtue of her claim alone.

VOTE: CloudKicker

I'm more willing to lynch Maria today than I was D2, primarily because she was the only non-sotty person who brought up the idea that the twoface kill framed sotty. Could have been a scum talking point, since the twoface nk was not a traditional choice with a claimed mason out there. I wouldn't be opposed to lynching her, but my priority is cloud. It's possible she's been subverting site meta by hardtownreading her partners or it's possible she's just been wrong about everything.

Jaack, what i did with sotty i did the same with grey, i asked for claim and showed intent, ure literraly the town leadin the ml while mafia bused

Btw now that I can talk about this
not willing to lynch Cloud but my townread on him has gone down after modding a mini normal and watching his scum game.

Sonia, thats so fucking bullshit and i actually think this is scummy, 2 days ago you whined to me when i fear blitzed you on ml, i am good scum but dont do that i should be easy to read this game, you know i dont hardbuddy

I don't think it can be cloud+maria together, given their early talk. Cloud+GM or cloud+hoopla fit on first glance, though.

Bad read, this is the obvious mafia play where they pick the 2 towns who defend mafia, say they cant be a team so they lynch one, then try to make town believe that because of that flip, then the other should be mafia. The sotty lynch is the most obvious bus i have seen in a while, the wagon had resistance but from maria and shes most likely town from meta + d1 votes and so on and im town too. Mafia pushing on the townies who didnt want to lynch pr is obvious here.

Actually, I assumed you would die as well.

But now I think IAI was probably killed for mason-slipping at the beginning of yesterday.

This is mafia self-referencing the reason why they killed IAI, i doubt anyone had any idea why IAI got killed nor did anyone made any comment on that, this is rask scum game btw.

Heres what i think, i am probably going to get mled here and jaack/other mason will die. Maria might be mled tomorow as well which is imo, how we are going to lose this game.

@BV : your push on sotty, while constant, you still showed intent to lynch outside many many times and you seemed to always be in the end-ish of the wagons, aka 2-3 last votes and, maybe im wrong, dont remembe ryou putting her on L-1 ? if its the case then please quote, i will reread anyway. Rask did hammer grey d1 but she also tried to flip the sotty's wagon to hoop,gm and myself in about 2 pages spawn which is extremely scummy, all she did at the end of the day was ask for a flip, this is not town whos afraid to lynch pr, this is mafia whos bored that their partner is getting lynched or something like that. Rask is an extremely easy read, like i said many times and she can read me pretty darn well too, yet she voted me and never doubted herself when im town, which is another scumtell imo. This is 100% rask scum game.

So on the wagon d1, rask is mafia, and i bet last mafia is in hoop/bv/creature. Bv should be town but i am paranoid. Gm is town over hoop here, i think its rask + hoop/bv/creature.

[CloudKicker]

VOTE: rask[/v|

[CloudKicker]

VOTE: Rask

[MariaR]

Cloud you put more effort in this game then you do your math homework wtf

[CloudKicker]

Hello friends!

Well, that's a great flip for us. I feel like the Sotty flip pretty much ensures BlackVoid is town, to the point that any suspicion of him borders on conspiracy theory and I'd be willing to put the game on the line on him being town. Given Jack also looks quite now from that flip, I just don't see BlackVoid taking the line of derailing a town-town wagon battle between Jack/myself and redirecting it onto scum. There were plenty of ways to look good from your positions with regards to mine/Jack's wagon battle, but helping derail it onto scum well you have two mislynches available is some hardcore turbo-bussing that unnecessarily opens the game up for town.

You don't see it every game, but this could very well be the fabled all-town powerwagon that nailed Sotty. The only question mark I have is Raskolnikov, but at this stage I'd rather lynch off the wagon, as I don't think scum double-bussed Sotty and think there's 1-2 scum off the wagon.

Maria's hard defenses of Sotty are a creative stance to take as scum and I'm not sure how adept and intune she is with current meta to make this play (it seems like nobody is too suspicious of her atm), and I'm inclined to believe she's the type that would probably find an opening to bus when the writing was on the wall for Sotty.

goodmorning working furiously to start counterwagons while the Sotty wagon is building (and largely ignoring it and not talking about it until asked) seems suspicious on the surface, and I hesitate to use this line of logic, but it's almost too obvious and I'd her to be more conscious of her reactions during that period of time. And if I'm scum and I'm seeing Sotty going down, I'm definitely not going to play the way goodmorning did - it just looks really fishy pushing unsupported counterwagons while the rest of the town lynches scum. I don't know, I might have to revisit that one later, but that's my initial impression.

Today I'm probably going to lynch between Creature and Cloudkicker. I want to do more of a reread before I vote, so more to come soon. This post gave me the heebie-jeebies though, and makes Cloud my top suspect atm:

And you sotty, i dont want to be a dick to you but you should really fucking step up your game if ur real, like now

"goddamn it Sotty, we really can't afford you to get lynched right now, step up your game so I don't have to suspect your claim more any more"

Nah, i dont maria. And the comment on hoop is probably a fake townslip considering theres day chat, hoop/creature doesnt look like a team, if hoop is scum its most likely with outside aka rask wink wink

[CloudKicker]

And just want to clarify, mafia and i are the obvious pushes today, the lack of content on maria is weird since i expected us both to be foses -> like i said, rask saying that we arent a team is just scumclaiming imo, same for the guy who said that when i flip town he would hardfos maria, those both are scumlines

[BlackVoid]

Okay, so I looked over Sotty7's ISO to see how she interacted with people. Arona and Jaack are obviously town so I'm going to focus on the other six people for now.

goodmorning

- Saying she wants to join the Sotty7 wagon over BBT's seemed unnecessary because she had been laying down the groundwork to push BBT anyways. Then there's the way Sotty7 reacted to her scumread by trying to placate her and make her see reason that I don't see as scumbuddy interaction. GM pushing in 588, Sotty7's response in 590, GM's 694, Sotty7's 795, GM's 811, Sotty7's 827 and GM's 884 are the back-and-forths I'm referring to. GM's basically going "you are scum but I'm not going get into why" and the gist of Sotty7's response is "please do tell me."

inb4 GM goes "but I totally would have pushed Sotty7 D1 if I was her partner and your reasons are rubbish." I'm just going to point out that I'm not going to call GM town because she seems allergic to that - let's just call her a cat in wolf's clothing.

@Rask, if you are still scumreading GM, give those a quick look and let me know what you think because this is one of my stronger reads.

[BlackVoid]

Hoopla

- I thought Sotty7 was buddying her rather hard. When Hoopla told her at the beginning that she was suspicious, Sotty7 responds with "I'm sad" and then there was her talk about tag-teaming with Hoopla if they were indeed both town. She puts Hoopla down to null/scum for a little while but once Hoopla townreads her again, all suspicion is forgotten. There's a lot of agreement with Hoopla and piggybacking off of her. Finally on D2, there's a ton of whiteknighting Hoopla when it looked like the latter was going to be lynched. Sotty7 was jumping through Hoops* to keep her appeased.

*No pun intended.

[Raskolnikov]

tf that flip, this is beyond an obvious bus. The sole reason why would mafia get lynched as uncced pr claim is because they got bussed for towncred

Who has towncred?

so is maria since we both defended scum, so i expected fully to be pushed by scum today like its happening rn

Who is scum pushing pushing you right now?

Bad read, this is the obvious mafia play where they pick the 2 towns who defend mafia, say they cant be a team so they lynch one, then try to make town believe that because of that flip, then the other should be mafia. The sotty lynch is the most obvious bus i have seen in a while, the wagon had resistance but from maria and shes most likely town from meta + d1 votes and so on and im town too. Mafia pushing on the townies who didnt want to lynch pr is obvious here.

Except, I didn't say there has to be one scum in the pair, and have been openly talking about other teams so I don't see how you miss this. In fact, I prefer hoopla ATM as she could still be scum with GM, whereas you'd likely only be with her anyways (in which case it doesn't matter).

This is mafia self-referencing the reason why they killed IAI, i doubt anyone had any idea why IAI got killed nor did anyone made any comment on that, this is rask scum game btw.

Given you pointed it out as a pt slip yourself, I'm not sure how you could genuinely fail to realize the significance in this context.

Rask is an extremely easy read, like i said many times and she can read me pretty darn well too,

Even though we've played before, to assert I'm going to be 100% accurate reading you every game is ridiculous.

yet she voted me and never doubted herself when im town, which is another scumtell imo.

And you make it out as though I'm hard pushing you this entire game whereas it's generally been PoE, a secondary compared to others who I've actually hard pushed, and looking at you as a potential partner during association research, so this characterization doesn't make sense either.

[Jaack]

Cloud, saying you're an obvious lynch candidate does nothing to help your case. In fact, it reminds me of the start of D2 when sotty started calling herself an obvious lynch candidate. You weren't preordained as a lynch candidate from the start -- at the end of D2, only Rask and I were particularly interested in lynching you. There's a ton of weird interactions between you and sotty beyond just your late attempts to save her. Furthermore, there was simply too much resistance to sotty's lynch at the end of D2 for it to be 100% a bus.

---

I will add one thing else. While at the start of the day I was reconsidering gm as a scum candidate, I'm pretty sure she's town now thinking about the IAI flip. There were a decent amount of IAI scumreads going around D1 and D2 but in all the counterwagons that developed yesterday, the only vote for IAI was by gm. My guess as to why is that scum was playing with the assumption that he was the other mason and knew that a wagon on him would be a waste of time as he wouldn't get lynched once he claimed.

[Raskolnikov]

Hoopla

- I thought Sotty7 was buddying her rather hard. When Hoopla told her at the beginning that she was suspicious, Sotty7 responds with "I'm sad" and then there was her talk about tag-teaming with Hoopla if they were indeed both town. She puts Hoopla down to null/scum for a little while but once Hoopla townreads her again, all suspicion is forgotten. There's a lot of agreement with Hoopla and piggybacking off of her. Finally on D2, there's a ton of whiteknighting Hoopla when it looked like the latter was going to be lynched. Sotty7 was jumping through Hoops* to keep her appeased.

*No pun intended.

I forgot about sotty's early hoop stuff. 119 311 and does look buddyish, and that was super early and way before sotty was going down or anything either, though she never stopped. Though I think it was sotty who said that associations were literally her specialty/biggest strength when scum so eeeeeh.

[Raskolnikov]

Okay, so I looked over Sotty7's ISO to see how she interacted with people. Arona and Jaack are obviously town so I'm going to focus on the other six people for now.

goodmorning

- Saying she wants to join the Sotty7 wagon over BBT's seemed unnecessary because she had been laying down the groundwork to push BBT anyways. Then there's the way Sotty7 reacted to her scumread by trying to placate her and make her see reason that I don't see as scumbuddy interaction. GM pushing in 588, Sotty7's response in 590, GM's 694, Sotty7's 795, GM's 811, Sotty7's 827 and GM's 884 are the back-and-forths I'm referring to. GM's basically going "you are scum but I'm not going get into why" and the gist of Sotty7's response is "please do tell me."

inb4 GM goes "but I totally would have pushed Sotty7 D1 if I was her partner and your reasons are rubbish." I'm just going to point out that I'm not going to call GM town because she seems allergic to that - let's just call her a cat in wolf's clothing.

@Rask, if you are still scumreading GM, give those a quick look and let me know what you think because this is one of my stronger reads.

It's good from sotty's side, but thing is still that GM did CW her and especially the vote on me was out of nowhere for her reads when I became a wagon prospect. It also feels like sotty treated everyone against her with some appeasement (barring me/"scumreads"), and if I take out both hoopla and gm on that basis I only really have maria/cloud which doesn't make much sense either.

[Raskolnikov]

I wish there wasn't an insta flashwagon onto cloud before hoopla posted today, it makes it hard to judge if she's doing it because she has to or not.

[BlackVoid]

I'm thinking we should massclaim. At this point, I think it can only help.