Micro 661 | Scumteam UnPick - Pressure Done

[Creature]

ArcAngel9 was prodded.

Votecount 1.4

Votecount 1.4

[1] Jaack - ZZZX
[2] ArcAngel9 - Dunhallym, Gamma Emerald
[0] Gamma Emerald
[2] Secret Agent Jin - Jaacki, ProHawk
[0] Tenshii
[1] ProHawk - Tenshi
[0] Dunhallym
[0] ZZZX

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: ArcAngel9, Secret Agent Jin

8 players are alive and 5 votes is needed to reach majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-12-03 16:00:00)

[Dunhallym]

OK, so I have a lot to say/ask. Not sure how much I'll actually manage to get done as baby has been crying all day and it's already late. For the record, while we still have 6 days left, it's not that much for me especially as I have family visiting at the end of the week, meaning I'll be mostly V/LA from Thursday evening to Sunday night.
But let's start with the quick and easy parts:

@ZZZX

i have a plan in mind but we will need the last person to claim first now i think

I’ve already asked but didn’t see an answer. What was your plan?

For proHawk read I dont really have one. His posts have been "emotional" but still devoid of any real drive. Don't see any intentionals behind them yet.

What do you mean about prohawk’s posts being emotional?

[Dunhallym]

@ Gamma

I think Jaack/SAJ looks SvT or SvS (not looking at chart for this so I may be off)
Idrk about Arc and Dunhal but the think you're pushing isn't really AI

Interesting view. Can you elaborate on that? Your vote was initially on Jaack, so I guess if SvT, then you have Jaack as scum. What makes you think of potential SvS (it is possible BTW)?

[ArcAngel9]

Mod, Didn't i mention that i am off on weekend. Sorry about that.

[ArcAngel9]

Looking back this post is very scummy. Specifically the last line. No allegations were made about them being a team and yet she assumes there was. Slip?
VOTE: ArcAngel

Wait. So pointing finger at someone who i think is bragging about a sarcastic post is scummy?

When i see things pointing at to me with no evidence i believe that it is coming from scum, So I pointed FOS to know and understand the thought process.

[Gamma Emerald]

@ Gamma

I think Jaack/SAJ looks SvT or SvS (not looking at chart for this so I may be off)
Idrk about Arc and Dunhal but the think you're pushing isn't really AI

Interesting view. Can you elaborate on that? Your vote was initially on Jaack, so I guess if SvT, then you have Jaack as scum. What makes you think of potential SvS (it is possible BTW)?

Jaack was pushing SAJ on stuff that is not indicative of scum, but I can also see it being a bus, with the fact that scum see more scummy things in their partner's play.

[Tenshii]

I have a thought but first:

Can everyone please give a read on ProHawk?

Like slight town. I think the way he replied to my accusations on him implied confidence in the idea he's town

ONe question I dont get @tenshii and @jack. Why are you just so focused on his RVS vote? Am I missing something or wat.

His wagon was because of an RVS vote.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Tenshii]

umm, it looks like he is trying? What do you think about ArcAngel?

If he's trying, what does that say about him drive-by posting as scum? ANd whatnot. ArcAngel is my best scumread, although it's weak. Mainly cuz of an overreaction to an accusation that was never there.

[Dunhallym]

Hopefully now we can get some opinions from Arc.

@ Tenshii

I have a thought but first:

Can everyone please give a read on ProHawk?

Like slight town. I think the way he replied to my accusations on him implied confidence in the idea he's town

ONe question I dont get @tenshii and @jack. Why are you just so focused on his RVS vote? Am I missing something or wat.

His wagon was because of an RVS vote.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

Your vote partly answers questions I had for you. But I'd still like to point out some things:

I would've loved to see the Jaack vs Jin argument develop out more but I'll just put my thoughts into it since Dunhall is asking.

I think Jin doesn't see the value of RVS very much considering that he didn't participate in it. He even went to the extent of self voting. So I can see how Jin could interpret Jaack's vote on Jin as a shitty serious vote and return it with an OMGUS.

You want discussion? Okay. Who or what do you want to talk about?

I think I'm going to start here:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

Both ArcAngel and Jin had less than stellar RVS votes, but I didn't really like how Jin walked his back after being called out on it.

Both ArcAngel and Jin had less than stellar RVS votes, but I didn't really like how Jin walked his back after being called out on it.

You are aware that A) My RVS vote was on myself and still is and B) I didnt walk anything back and i wasnt called out on anything. Jaacks whole post is weirdly defensive, or just plain weird.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Jaack

Also I'm not sure if it's because Jin keeps saying "I'm town" so much but I like the way Jin is speaking in his posts.

As far as Jaack goes, I can understand his mindset towards RVS. RVS is a tool to start discussion aka scumhunting. So Jaack's mindset is "Not participating in RVS is therefore scummy". Except it generally isn't. There are town who choose to not participate in RVS. Just like how there are town who are shitposty, or trolly, whatever. But if we go under the logic that Jaack basically just made an RVS vote then the vote is more than fine. Although I don't townread Jaack, I just think what he's done is pretty standard and NAI.

I'll come back to what I think of the Jin issue later on but a few comments:
1) the case on him started with RVS thing but is certainly not limited to it.
2) repeating over and over that you're town doesn't make it so. So I don't really understand the underlined part.
3) you earlier voted fro Jin because of what you interpreted as a "slip". Have you changed your mind on that?

[Tenshii]

I'll come back to what I think of the Jin issue later on but a few comments:
1) the case on him started with RVS thing but is certainly not limited to it.
2) repeating over and over that you're town doesn't make it so. So I don't really understand the underlined part.
3) you earlier voted fro Jin because of what you interpreted as a "slip". Have you changed your mind on that?

1) Then what is it? Reactions? His reactions were due to a different interpretation on a vote on him that was because of RVS.
2) I liked the way he's speaking, although I might be confusing the way he's speaking because he says "I'm town" so much.
3) The slip wasn't AI, I just pushed for a reaction

[Dunhallym]

OK, so Jin. I'll make the short version now. If you want a full case with quotes and the like I won't have time tonight and to be honest I can't guarantee that I'll have time to do it before day end.
Basically my problem with Jin can boil down to two points.
1) His reaction to Jaack’s vote, and in particular the fact he denied his initial townread on Jaack.
2) His reaction to Jaack’s plan and lack of subsequent scumhunting. His initial reaction to Jaack’s plan is not clear. The comment on Jaack’s innocence and the rest of post 80 makes it look like he found the plan good, but he never really said so either. He later complains that Jaack is voting solely because of statistics, which I think is false. I’m not a fan of Jaack’s plan, and I’ve expressed why earlier on. But I also think that the best way to show you’re town is to find the real scum. And I think that so far Jin has done nothing to that purpose.
Now, Jin has made a couple posts that I really dislike. Prohawk already mentioned his AtE. I fully agree with that and I hate the vote removal from Jaack in the same post. If he really thinks Jaack is scum then why remove vote?
Last thing: if you look at Jin’s scum/town list: his scumleans are people who are voting for him. His townleans are people whoe are defending him. His nulls are the rest. If he was a newb, I'd think that he may be biased as I have made the same mistake of trusting people who defended me and distrusting people who accused me but here it makes me seriously doubt the reality of those reads.

To sum up my thoughts: I originally disliked Jaack's plan but Jin and Arc are my main suspects at the moment, with ZZZX as a runnerup.

[Secret Agent Jin]

OK, so Jin. I'll make the short version now. If you want a full case with quotes and the like I won't have time tonight and to be honest I can't guarantee that I'll have time to do it before day end.
Basically my problem with Jin can boil down to two points.
1) His reaction to Jaack’s vote, and in particular the fact he denied his initial townread on Jaack.
2) His reaction to Jaack’s plan and lack of subsequent scumhunting. His initial reaction to Jaack’s plan is not clear. The comment on Jaack’s innocence and the rest of post 80 makes it look like he found the plan good, but he never really said so either. He later complains that Jaack is voting solely because of statistics, which I think is false. I’m not a fan of Jaack’s plan, and I’ve expressed why earlier on. But I also think that the best way to show you’re town is to find the real scum. And I think that so far Jin has done nothing to that purpose.
Now, Jin has made a couple posts that I really dislike. Prohawk already mentioned his AtE. I fully agree with that and I hate the vote removal from Jaack in the same post. If he really thinks Jaack is scum then why remove vote?
Last thing: if you look at Jin’s scum/town list: his scumleans are people who are voting for him. His townleans are people whoe are defending him. His nulls are the rest. If he was a newb, I'd think that he may be biased as I have made the same mistake of trusting people who defended me and distrusting people who accused me but here it makes me seriously doubt the reality of those reads.

To sum up my thoughts: I originally disliked Jaack's plan but Jin and Arc are my main suspects at the moment, with ZZZX as a runnerup.

1) I never townread Jaack, everybody thinks i did but all i said was that i didnt scumread him. That can be anywhere from a Null read to a Town read. After some posts by him my viewpoint changed and i began to read him as a scumlean.
2) You are entitled to your own opinions but, like i have explained before, the AtE was not an AtE and you will know if i ever post an AtE because it wont just be "im town, you are mislynching". That is a preemptive warning that you are wasting time on me. I also explained my vote removal on Jaack. I noticed the signs of myself getting ready to spend all D1 tunneling on Jaack and i stopped it so that i could resume the game normally.
Last Thing: I townread the people defending me because if i am town and someone defends me that tells me they arent scum. If there is a scum player and a townie is getting looked at as scum doesn't it make sense to let the townie get heat and become the lynchee instead of defending them? A scum player would just let a townie get the flak and stay neutral on the subject, Defending them is stupid. What are you saying concerning my townreads? That if my role was scum that my townreads are scum too? Are you saying that i am townreading people that defend me so they will give me town points? Do you think i am that stupid? If i was scum i would treat them normally. I would call my scum partners out on their BS and question them as i do others. I wouldnt buss ny partners or townread them for no reason.

[Gamma Emerald]

You don't seem to understand whiteknighting.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You don't seem to understand whiteknighting.

I understand whiteknighting but its usually one on one and what is being said about me is the oppisite of whiteknighting.

[Jaack]

1) I never townread Jaack, everybody thinks i did but all i said was that i didnt scumread him. That can be anywhere from a Null read to a Town read. After some posts by him my viewpoint changed and i began to read him as a scumlean.

You know, I might be able to cut you some slack if you admitted you changed your read as a result of my vote from town to scum but the fact that you are trying to deny townreading me when the evidence clearly states otherwise is incredibly unlikely to come from town.

IF you are scum then you are doing a good job of playing it out in public but i am convinced that you arent and that to me leaves only two groups.

You say you are convinced that I am not scum. There's only one other option.
----

In other news, with deadline approaching, I'd still prefer to lynch Jin, but I'd be willing to vote ArcAngel as well. I'm not really feeling that strongly that she's scum, but I'm not feeling that she's very townish either and she's on the lynchable part of the chart.

[Dunhallym]

OK, so Jin. I'll make the short version now. If you want a full case with quotes and the like I won't have time tonight and to be honest I can't guarantee that I'll have time to do it before day end.
Basically my problem with Jin can boil down to two points.
1) His reaction to Jaack’s vote, and in particular the fact he denied his initial townread on Jaack.
2) His reaction to Jaack’s plan and lack of subsequent scumhunting. His initial reaction to Jaack’s plan is not clear. The comment on Jaack’s innocence and the rest of post 80 makes it look like he found the plan good, but he never really said so either. He later complains that Jaack is voting solely because of statistics, which I think is false. I’m not a fan of Jaack’s plan, and I’ve expressed why earlier on. But I also think that the best way to show you’re town is to find the real scum. And I think that so far Jin has done nothing to that purpose.
Now, Jin has made a couple posts that I really dislike. Prohawk already mentioned his AtE. I fully agree with that and I hate the vote removal from Jaack in the same post. If he really thinks Jaack is scum then why remove vote?
Last thing: if you look at Jin’s scum/town list: his scumleans are people who are voting for him. His townleans are people whoe are defending him. His nulls are the rest. If he was a newb, I'd think that he may be biased as I have made the same mistake of trusting people who defended me and distrusting people who accused me but here it makes me seriously doubt the reality of those reads.

To sum up my thoughts: I originally disliked Jaack's plan but Jin and Arc are my main suspects at the moment, with ZZZX as a runnerup.

1) I never townread Jaack, everybody thinks i did but all i said was that i didnt scumread him. That can be anywhere from a Null read to a Town read. After some posts by him my viewpoint changed and i began to read him as a scumlean.

That's what you said (underlined is mine):

IF you are scum then you are doing a good job of playing it out in public but i am convinced that you arent and that to me leaves only two groups.

Why?

Why am i convinced he is town?

I am basing that off of myself. If i was scum i wouldnt put myself out in public by making a chart and actively calculating the possible scumteams, i would let someone else make the chart and put themselves out there. If he is scum then he is doing an oscar worthy portrayal of a town member.

I don't have mind reading skills (shocking i know) so if you say A (I am convinced he's town) on the thread I'm going from the assumption that you think A. If what you meant is B (I have a null read on him) then don't question my reading skills but evaluate what you said.
I've already questioned you on the subject and here is what you answered me:

Right but i worded it that way because i dont think something would ask me why i think he is a null read.

Again, if someone is convinced i am scummy or a good enough place to put a vote then i will say that they are welcome to but it would be both a mislynch and a horrible choice. I have come to understand that i, in some ways, come off as scummy since i deal with a high volume of attention. All i can say for now is that either town or scum i tend to play this game a bit slimy/scummy. I havent done anything that is AI of scum and you certainly wont find any scumslips since i have to be scum to slip in that direction.

Again underlined is mine. I'm not sure I get what you say here because what I understand is that since Tenshii asked you about your read on Jaack you said you townread it because he wouldn't be interested in a null read?
No matter how I look at it it remains that you've lied, either on your initial read or in saying later that it was a null read.

2) You are entitled to your own opinions but, like i have explained before, the AtE was not an AtE and you will know if i ever post an AtE because it wont just be "im town, you are mislynching". That is a preemptive warning that you are wasting time on me. I also explained my vote removal on Jaack. I noticed the signs of myself getting ready to spend all D1 tunneling on Jaack and i stopped it so that i could resume the game normally.
Last Thing: I townread the people defending me because if i am town and someone defends me that tells me they arent scum. If there is a scum player and a townie is getting looked at as scum doesn't it make sense to let the townie get heat and become the lynchee instead of defending them? A scum player would just let a townie get the flak and stay neutral on the subject, Defending them is stupid. What are you saying concerning my townreads? That if my role was scum that my townreads are scum too? Are you saying that i am townreading people that defend me so they will give me town points? Do you think i am that stupid? If i was scum i would treat them normally. I would call my scum partners out on their BS and question them as i do others. I wouldnt buss ny partners or townread them for no reason.

You don't anser at all my second point. My second point is that you initially didn't give a real opinion on Jaack's plan: your first response suggests that you find it's a good plan but on the reread it's really ambiguous. But later on you complain about Jaack's choice of lynching you based on statistics. And then you didn't make any scumhunting effort. If you agreed with the plan, then it made sense to try and push me and/or Arc, which you have absolutely not done. And if you disagreed then you still had to push. Now, "preemptive warning that you are wasting time on me": seriously! Can scum please come forward and say they're scum, this will avoid us wasting our time looking for them. Thank you!
As for the last part: defending you is not necessarily stupid for scum. IF you are town and get lynched they look good for not hopping on your wagon. If you're town, then that list is awfully naive. If you're scum, its great advantage is that it doesn't give us any information to find your partner. I don't think you are that naive which is why I consider this list as an additional point to you being scum.
You want to convince me I'm wrong? then stop saying you're town and do something to prove it.

Now, my vote is still on Arcangel and will remain so until she gives us some input. Because the second point I made on you is also true of her AND she's disappeared under the radar.

[ArcAngel9]

I have a thought but first:

Can everyone please give a read on ProHawk?

Like slight town. I think the way he replied to my accusations on him implied confidence in the idea he's town

ONe question I dont get @tenshii and @jack. Why are you just so focused on his RVS vote? Am I missing something or wat.

His wagon was because of an RVS vote.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

This doesn't make sense. Can you explain me once again.

[Dunhallym]

I have a thought but first:

Can everyone please give a read on ProHawk?

Like slight town. I think the way he replied to my accusations on him implied confidence in the idea he's town

ONe question I dont get @tenshii and @jack. Why are you just so focused on his RVS vote? Am I missing something or wat.

His wagon was because of an RVS vote.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

This doesn't make sense. Can you explain me once again.

Could you please grace us with your thoughts on the game?

[ArcAngel9]

I am fallen behind with this game,

I have an important report to submit for my boss. And I am working on it all day and night. I ll be busy till tomorrow night.

I can only be able to look back post that.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Im sick of being asked the same questions 4 times but worded differently. No, i dont townread Jaack for the 10th time, i worded it weird, are we going to have another 4 pages of discussion about how i read someone? You know what? Something just clicked and it all became clear to me. I did a few missteps and Duhn jumped on me and kept going with the same questions. I was very much ready to boil over and become so mad. I took a breath and it hit me that, its exactly what Duhn wants, she wants me to yell and scream and draw negetive attention to myself. She is pushing me until i get myself lynched. How do i prove that i am not scum? Its hard for a VT since they dont have powers that they can point to and use. All a VT has is words and Scum!Duhn wants me to falter and get lynched. I think i am going to simply continue on and ignore her attempts.

[ZZZX]

I’ve already asked but didn’t see an answer. What was your plan?

I planned to see if we can get a person who was at one scum team unknown to be closer to a conf town . forcing scum to aim at him or risk losing thier edge. Either that or trying to getmyself conftowned if i had at most 2 scum pairs would be the start of the plan.

and with that out we really cant do into any details since its pointless

[ZZZX]

What do you mean about prohawk’s posts being emotional?

i feel its not very "robotic". Its human. It has emotions

I dont see wtf I am explaining here. its self explainary

[ZZZX]

His wagon was because of an RVS vote.

I mean, I get that. But What I want to understand is what is the current read anyone who reads him right now has outside of the post. pretty sure 7 pages would be enough to either solidify the read or discard it.?

[ZZZX]

Also I will be busy for the next week. finals for this semister. will try to post every day or two though

[Creature]

bump