Open 657: JK9++ (Game over)

[ScumDeersAreVeryTasty]

Like, I can't comprehend why town would still not trust me after everything I did and after I signed my victory away by advocating a Charlie lynch.

I'm disappointed.

Trying to play with emotions, eh?

No one place a vote in case of a flash hammer.

@Moth and Deers: Is there interest for a MDS lynch?

I highly encourage a MDS lynch.

And before you scums get ideas when I say villager (looking at you Creature), we are *not* lynching in the villagers today. We lynch Charlie, he pops Creature and we go into 2:1 LYLO tomorrow with a suspect we'll have already discussed.

You completely forgot there are 2 killing scums left who can kill both townies left and i didnt expected this from you.

I'm 99% sure MDS is SK. First, Mafias dont have to be overly-townie as they have their own companions. On the other hand, SK is alone and has noone to be companion'ed except townies. This might be the reason for MDS to look very town-ish. SKs and VTs are somehow similar. SKs are completely unaware of others roles and They have the prime objective of lynching scums at day and killing townies at night. VTs are similar except VTs have to lynch the scums and do nothing at night. So, I'm pretty sure MDS was attempting the best shot to get scums hanged at day. D1, She didnt seem overly concerned with lynching scums. D2, She was very concerned with hanging scums. She said she had to find SK or Vig and the fact that "Scums accuse others with their roles" has been correct few times matched with that situation very well. I ignored her for a bit because she was very helpful in finding scums. When hanging bang, She backed off her vote from him because she might have had thought he can be villager too and she might be hanged the next day for pushing a lynch on Bang. D3, She came around saying she wants to hang Charl who will vengeshot Creature which will lose us the game, if both are town. And Noticed there was no third kill (let's assume there are vig and SK different)? Because she told JK'er might have jailed her So She was RB'ed and no kill occurred. And the fact that she seemed t be starting to get many reasons to prove her innocence which was over-done. She seemed to be playing with emotions to make townies emotional as well which affects logical side of townies. And She also mentioned those who will sus MDS will be scummy themselves to prevent town from sus'ing her. That was another scummy statement. It is hard to tell in words but i am already so convinced that she is SK. (assuming she didnt bus bang). And the way she told that she would have made me/Kop or any other town mislynched D2 and it will be an easy win for her isnt really convincing. IF She had got any town mislynched, It will be a loss for SK as mafias outnumber her unless she kills mafia at night. So, It's obvious that she indeed wanted a scum kill which made her to look townie.

Sorry for the quietness for so long but I was busy IRL. Now,I get whole thing.

I cant really tell it in words how she seems so obv!scum rn. Please re-analyse her posts and make your own decision. I want to hear from everyone.

UNVOTE: Tiger Moth
VOTE: MiniDeathStar the Serial Killer.

Plus, I believe Creature is real vig now. PR claims are true except of MDS. And We only have 2 VTs, imo. One of the VT claim is fake. I am town so that leads to SAJ and TigerMoth and TigerMoth is leaning more rn.


A scum wont claim Venge So not hanging Charl rn.
I'm convinced Creature is vig, not him either.
No way MDS is tracker, Lynch her.
I'm a VT. Considering that i was forcing to lynch Bang, I cant be scum and MDS is SK.
SAJ seems Townie and he voted Bang,so not him.
Tiger Moth is the final scum left. She didnt voted Bang and i see no way scums will bus at that situation. Let's hang him next day?


We have this on our town win.

[MiniDeathStar]

She came around saying she wants to hang Charl who will vengeshot Creature which will lose us the game, if both are town.

This is false. I'll explain it a third time.

Assume I am the SK. Assume one of the villagers (say Tiger moth) is the mafia.

Charlie vengekills Creature. I am the last remaining of the PRs and therefore confirmed scum. Night 3 starts. This is what could happen:

1. Tiger moth kills me. I kill a villager. Mafia wins. (67% if I'm not bulletproof)

2. Tiger moth kills me. I kill her. Town wins. (33% if I'm not bulletproof)

3. Tiger moth hits my bulletproof vest. I kill a villager. (67% if I'm bulletproof)
Day 4 starts as 1 vs 1 vs 1. Village and mafia force a no-lynch. Night 4 can go two ways: Tiger moth shoots me and I kill either town (50%, she wins) or her (50%, town wins). Either way I lose.

4. Tiger moth hits my bulletproof vest. I kill her. (33% if I'm bulletproof)
Day 4 starts as 2 vs 1, and both of them know I'm scum. They lynch me. Town wins.

In either of those cases, mafia has the best odds to win if they shoot at me. If they shoot a villager and not me, they would get a draw at best.

So if Charlie vengekills Creature,

I literally cannot win as scum

. Scum-me cannot be suggesting this.

[ScumDeersAreVeryTasty]

She came around saying she wants to hang Charl who will vengeshot Creature which will lose us the game, if both are town.

This is false. I'll explain it a third time.

Assume I am the SK. Assume one of the villagers (say Tiger moth) is the mafia.

Charlie vengekills Creature. I am the last remaining of the PRs and therefore confirmed scum. Night 3 starts. This is what could happen:

1. Tiger moth kills me. I kill a villager. Mafia wins. (67% if I'm not bulletproof)

2. Tiger moth kills me. I kill her. Town wins. (33% if I'm not bulletproof)

3. Tiger moth hits my bulletproof vest. I kill a villager. (67% if I'm bulletproof)
Day 4 starts as 1 vs 1 vs 1. Village and mafia force a no-lynch. Night 4 can go two ways: Tiger moth shoots me and I kill either town (50%, she wins) or her (50%, town wins). Either way I lose.

4. Tiger moth hits my bulletproof vest. I kill her. (33% if I'm bulletproof)
Day 4 starts as 2 vs 1, and both of them know I'm scum. They lynch me. Town wins.

In either of those cases, mafia has the best odds to win if they shoot at me. If they shoot a villager and not me, they would get a draw at best.

So if Charlie vengekills Creature,

I literally cannot win as scum

. Scum-me cannot be suggesting this.

You are saying you are telling this and scum wont tell this? Wow, That's scummy af. And where did the accuser are scummy go? Were they just to threaten town to not sus you?

[MiniDeathStar]

I literally outlined a plan that guarantees I lose if I'm scum. Tell me why you wouldn't follow it regardless of my alignment.

[MiniDeathStar]

Like seriously if town lynch me *now* instead of following a plan that guarantees I lose as scum, I'm pretty sure I'll never play mafia again. This is not an appeal to emotion because I doubt you care. I just don't know how else I could possibly persuade town to do what's best for them.

[ScumDeersAreVeryTasty]

I literally outlined a plan that guarantees I lose if I'm scum. Tell me why you wouldn't follow it regardless of my alignment.

Like seriously if town lynch me *now* instead of following a plan that guarantees I lose as scum, I'm pretty sure I'll never play mafia again. This is not an appeal to emotion because I doubt you care. I just don't know how else I could possibly persuade town to do what's best for them.

I want to know why you seem to be trying so much to seem over-connected to scum. And why are you trying to prove you arent SK by saying you will lose as SK? There can be other possibilities as well. And saying if you follow the plan, You will lose so you arent SK just dosnt fits good. If you are town, I'm sory for not getting all player's role since the start of the same. I just dont know whom to go on except you because you seem very SK'ish in my eyes.

[MiniDeathStar]

Because for some utterly bizarro reason most of the village is convinced I'm the SK. I thought I had dispersed that idea by suggesting something that guarantees I'd lose if I am and explaining it over and over, and somehow it doesn't click with you.

Now I'm the SK for explaining how I'll lose as SK with what I'm suggesting? You have got to be fucking kidding me.

OH HEY I HAVE ANOTHER IDEA.

How about we lynch Charlie and have him vengekill me? Would that satisfy you? If Creature is scum, that's 33% town win 67% scum win (if he's not BP SK) and 67% town win 33% mafia win if he's BP SK. I don't like 33% but if you lynch me today it'll be 0%. I'll take what I can get.

[MiniDeathStar]

If you are town, I'm sory for not getting all player's role since the start of the same.

Yeah that's not an excuse. I didn't get their roles either but at least I provided you with rock solid logic and you dismissed it. Nothing would excuse this for me.

[Creature]

Actually if Charloux flips scum, we're in a pretty good spot.

[MiniDeathStar]

Yes we are. That's why I say let's lynch him and have him vengekill one of the PRs if he's town (his choice). Whoever he picks, the PR scum still loses no matter what.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I never thought you were scum MDS. I was trying to pull out an absurd reasoning for why someone thought you were scum. Deers just went off. He said that he was busy and all of a sudden he is back and ready to nail you with 3 paragraphs of verbal sewage. Before that post he was lost and couldn't catch up and then all of a sudden he is fully ready with all this knowledge to nail MDS.

I 100% trust MDS and if she is Mafia/SK i will be blown away and bow down to her in submission lol. I believe the scum in the VTs is Deers. I am for lynching Charl and let him venge whoever he sees fit (probably Creature).

[MiniDeathStar]

Btw with Creture's suggestion to lynch a villager over Charloux (100% loss for PR!scum) I'm 95% convinced he's the PR!scum, 5% because I just can't explain villager scum shooting another villager in any way other than extremely bad play. But with what's happened today maybe I should stop overestimating players' skill.

So that was a trick question Jin? I kind of suspected that, I knew you wouldn't be this bad, haha.

[Charloux]

Ok let's get this show on the road then

[MiniDeathStar]

VOTE: Charloux

Jin, please don't instavote SDAVT tomorrow and carefully consider Tiger moth as another possibility. It's possible SD is just a very very bad villager and if you vote him then Tiger moth could quickhammer for her win. It's going to be a super difficult decision but I trust you guys would figure it out.

[Charloux]

VOTE: Charloux

[MiniDeathStar]

Like, if Creature is SK then I'm 80% confident Tiger moth is the mafia. Otherwise idk. I tracked her and she visited no one. Could be ninja SK but who takes track immunity over NK immunity? Like, think carefully about it.

[Secret Agent Jin]

VOTE: Charloux

[MiniDeathStar]

Oh and I feel like I have to say this, but if Charlie vengekills Creature the scum, then I'll be conftown tomorrow. Just in case Tiger moth decides to kill Jin and trick SDAVT into voting me.

[Charloux]

but who takes track immunity over NK immunity? Like, think carefully about it.

BP is overrated. The only ones who need em are people like you who like to stand out.

[MiniDeathStar]

I suppose. Oh well, in either case, don't swear by the track result. I just think SDAVT is unlikely to be mafia given Ted's play and then the SD/bang exchange.

[Tiger moth]

And it looks like I've been ninja'd again. I wrote this a couple of hours ago then came back to finish it off and there's a lot more posts there. So I'm sending it anyway before I continue with this or look at those.

@Moth and Deers: Is there interest for a MDS lynch?

No. If she is scum she can't win anyway with her plan as she either gets nightkilled or if not she gets lynched the next Day if she kills the other scum. If she doesn't the VT-scum can't give themself away by resisting a no-lynch and she gets shot the next night. So we need to decide between the other two.

That would have been easy if town just kept their trust in me. Idk how many more times I have to prove that literally everything I've been doing all game has come from a town mindset and utterly destructive to scum!me. Jfc it's super stressful to have to reassert myself over and over and over.

This is precisely why people are wary of trusting you. Town doesn't need to do this. Nor does town need to throw mud like you did here:

Tiger moth on the other hand has been super uninvolved this game.

This is not true at all and makes me wonder about your motive for saying it.

[MiniDeathStar]

I'm sorry if that's throwing mud on my part but that's what my impression has been. You never took the initiative to do anything, you just kind of went along with the flow. Creature, Jin, lane and I diligently analysed things, wrote down a plan and evaluated possible outcomes. Your Day 2, barring some NKA at the beginning and the useful revelation on Klingon's target, has mostly been you holding onto your old read on Jin and speaking when spoken to. How many times did you care to comment on what we were doing or offer your insight? You never even voted.

Why do you need to question my motive? I'm looking for the villager scum and if it's a mafia I don't think it's Jin or SDAVT.

---

As for townies' trust, I said it would have been a lot easier if people took what I said at face value and discussing its merits instead of trying to find if I could be misleading them. I wouldn't have had to explain 4 times why Charlie is the best lynch today and we could've focused purely on scumhunting in the villager pool.

[Creature]

I know PR!scum will lose with that strategy, but if the PR!scum survives, town will most likely lose and PR!scum could still hope the other scum decides to not hit him.

[Creature]

That's what I am worried, not about the scum that will lose.

[MiniDeathStar]

As for townies' trust, I said it would have been a lot easier if people took what I said at face value and

discussed

its merits instead of trying to find if I could be misleading them.

Fixed.