Mini Theme 1859: D&D Curse of Strahd Mafia - Mason Topic

[Persivul]

Hi Vedith! Please get some stuff before you die!

[Persivul]

I'm probably voting Creature off the bat. Last time with him he made it to lylo and just voted (incorrectly) because he was impatient.

[Persivul]

Yeah I should have explained. If you die, I inherit any items you have at that point.

So, in a vote for who gets items, it's better for you to get them than me.

This should go without saying, but we don't claim masons unless we agree to it here. Only exception would be if a wagon came up fast on one of us and the other wasn't around. Then of course the wagoned person could claim.

Typically we wouldn't claim early, as we're then conftowns and prime NK targets. In this game, we could possibly claim depending on the item. If it's very powerful and we can't get the vote going our way, conf towning ourselves might get us the item. I doubt the items will be that good, but it's possible. We probably won't even know what the item does when voting.

I googled "strahd ezmerelda" and found background on my flavor. We'll need to do that regarding the quests and items. Mod said such knowledge isn't actually necessary but could be helpful.

[Persivul]

Doesn't really matter. Strahd is a vampire so I voted cemetery.

Rule of thumb is probably that it's not good to be the first guy or the last guy going in somewhere!

[Persivul]

I was right, we don't get to know what the item does. Only the character receiving it does. The people who know hte material think it's a beneficial item. The way Jason came on strong wanting it seems town to me. If I were scum I'd try to be a little more subtle. Shaziro also seems town at this point. IIRC I've seen Dunnstral self-vote as town, so I don't want anything going to him, he could just waste it if he gets pissy about something.

[Persivul]

Not really. We got an item and are voting on who gets it. I considered voting you as a mason crumb, but really you don't need to crumb mason, and since you only had a few posts I had no justification for voting you.

For me dunn and creature are PL material if nothing better comes up, and I certainly don't want an item going to either of them.

I'm leaning town on shaziro and jason. Have a bad feel on pine, but it's just a gut thing at this point.

And one of you or creature needs to swap out your dog. Very confusing.

[Persivul]

Though the thought that you aren't actually town crept into my mind but mod said "slightly bastard" and scum-town masonry is pretty fucking bastard. : ]

My role pm said something like it's guaranteed we're both town despite it being somewhat bastard. I'm pretty sure we're OK with each other.

[Persivul]

Do you know anything about the flavor?

No.

[Persivul]

We should town up though and try to get items w/o having to claim yea?

You can if you want. I'm not into it as it puts a target on your back.

[Persivul]

Dunnstral
shaddowez
drealmerz7
Persivul
Creature
SlySly
kuror0

BRantz
JasonWazza
KuroiXHF

Pine
Shaziro

Town -> Scum

I can go with Pine or Shaziro at this point.

If no one's looking scummy later, dunnstral or creature are good policy lynches.

[Persivul]

I disagree.

I'd rather vote pine than creature I think that creatures likely to be town from early game stuff and his posting now feels off the cuff sure it's easy stuff to post as either alignment but that's how he solves games.

You misunderstand. I'm for Pine at this point. I'm saying that if there's reason to change that read and no one else is looking particularly scummy, creature is a good PL. He doesn't solve games. he's just a kid goofing around, which isn't a big deal now, but you don't want in lylo.

[Persivul]

And I meant I disagree that they're good policy lynches in general but dunn claiming miller means that he does need to go eventually if that's what you meant.

I've seen dunn self-lynch. I've seen creature miss a big scum mistake in lylo and lynch town, admitting that he was just bored and wanted the game over. Those are good reasons IMO for PLs. But see my post on Pine, hopefully it doesn't come down to PL.

Miller claims used to make me nervous but so far I've never seen one flip red.

[Persivul]

And I meant I disagree that they're good policy lynches in general but dunn claiming miller means that he does need to go eventually if that's what you meant.

I've seen dunn self-lynch. I've seen creature miss a big scum mistake in lylo and lynch town, admitting that he was just bored and wanted the game over. Those are good reasons IMO for PLs. But see my post on Pine, hopefully it doesn't come down to PL.

Miller claims used to make me nervous but so far I've never seen one flip red.

[Persivul]

Let's lynch pine.
I'll let you push it solo for now?

LOL - I should have read the whole thread before replying post by post.

With those claims (amulet and role), Pine's either bad town or bad scum.

[Persivul]

Not liking Jason's reaction - says yeah Pine's claims look bad, but he'd rather vote drealmerz with no explanation.

Will be interested in shaz's reaction to the Pine push.

[Persivul]

You might want to vote Pine now to build momentum. I want to see if a CW forms (probably on me) and if so who's on it.

[Persivul]

Tell me what you think of Pine's 523. I want to hear your opinion before I reply.

[Persivul]

523 isn't a terrible post.

Yeah, that's what I thought at first too, hence the request.

Rereading it though, I like it less. "Healing myself isn't a guarantee, as my role PM suggests that there are conditions and abilities which could stack to defeat it." Why would you give scum a road map on how to kill you? "That's why I said it is "unlikely" I would get to use the amulet, as it would necessitate me surviving long enough to need recharging." If he had just kept his mouth shut, scum would have targeted him tonight, and he would have needed the recharge. So I'm still not buying it.

The thing that's bothering me is the lack of a CW (although I haven't caught up yet - maybe one has developed.)

drealmerz is scum discuss.

I don't like drealmerz, but can't put my finger on why and build a case.

[Persivul]

Dreal's 554 is bad - pine isn't scummy, but yeah he is, but no he's not, but pers is worse. This could be the push for the CW, with disclaimers in case the pine lynch does go through.

[Persivul]

Made a push on drealmerz - not sure if I should switch my vote. Not going to for now. Pine has been all after-the-fact just-so stories regarding his claims and the amulet search thing. It just sounds like scum caught and floundering to me. There's a chance it was really bad town play I suppose. But seriously, if scum have reason to target you, and you can self heal, that's a fantastic position as town - if you just keep your mouth shut about the self heal. The only reason to make that claim is scum preemptively explaining why they're not NK'd.

[Persivul]

I feel like it's so obvious that we're masons. lol

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Claiming might not be bad. As I've thought about it, keeping masons hidden is obviously good in a game with lots of VTs. Since this is presumably role madness, if we claim, we put targets on our backs, but we'd be taking bullets for other roles that might be more useful, and also somewhat provable as the game goes on.

[Persivul]

What are the chances both pine and dreal are scum? In that case both wagons will likely stall and they'll both come out less suspicious for it.

[Persivul]

Not great to be blunt.

Decided to actually read kuror's iso; wanna take a look and let me know if I'm seeing things?

kuror is frequently lynch bait D1. I need more time for votes etc. to read her.

[Persivul]

We also probably don't need to claim yet. Wait until tomorrow maybe so I can get the next item.

BP woulda been great for either of us kind of a shame.

The item didn't give BP, it just refilled charges. Pine is claiming the BP/self-heal as his role, not the item power. Item wouldn't have done anything for us - if it's really what Pine says it is.

[Persivul]

Actually thinking about it how would us claiming day 1 and then becoming essentially invincible be balanced at all?

How would we be invincible? We'd just be conftown subject to NK. My point is that, if we're killed, that let's others like trackers live.

[Persivul]

Number of times dreal is mentioned in Pine ISO: 0.

[Persivul]

Again, kuroi just reads scummy due to playstyle. I get that a lot too. I'm not putting a read on kuroi until tomorrow at the earliest, and possibly not until D3. If the Pine lynch goes through and he flips red, that's a good sign for kuori, as he's on the wagon early but not pushing it as you'd expect from a busser.

[Persivul]

If there's a scum on pines wagon it's kuroi, and I don't get how his vote couldn't be a bus.

Typically if you bus early in phase, you should make a big push on it in order to maximize town cred. IIRC kuroi said something like

I'll park my vote here until something better comes along

, which isn't going to get you much town cred.

[Persivul]

But when you bus early it's never because you expect the lynch to actually go through.
And I don't wanna assume kuroi is a scum player who'd know how to maximize towncred in the first place.

I'm saying kuroi looks good if she stays on the wagon and it results in a red flip.

Someone who gets on early not expecting it to go through jumps off if it gets dangerous. If Pine's wagon increases and kuroi suddenly finds a better scum read and moves her vote, yeah, that looks bad.

We'll see after some flips.

Exactly. kuroi's an easy mislynch based on playstyle alone.

I'm currently a lot more confident dreal flips scum than pine, but pine's push on jason looks like scum.

I hate to say they both look like scum...just seems too easy. But to me they do. I'm currently waiting for votes from others. Could learn something from that.

[Persivul]

kuror0/drealmerz/pine/dunn

That's where the scum's at.

Dunn isn't bothering me like he usually does. OTOH, those times he bothered me he was town.

Above is good for today but I can't rule out kuroi, creature, brantz yet.

[Persivul]

Kuror just cased you but didn't vote you.

Give him the business.

Yeah, his total focus on himself when he's not even being pressured is making me wonder.

[Persivul]

Like, you gotta figure if you and I are worth our salt, at least one of pine and dreal is scum.

Meh, D1's a crapshoot. They could both be town and scum be in the lurkers.

Regarding drealmerz: his recent posting looks better to me. In 497 he's pressuring shaddowez. shad hasn't been scum read much, so there's not much motive for scum!dreal to try to start a push on him at this point in the game. I also don't see the scum motivation for him to stay on me now that he's the only person on my wagon. This is assuming that dreal and pine aren't both scum.

Kuror0 opting you over both of them without committing a vote to it looks very bad.

He tried really hard to find things he "just remembered" to make you look like scum as well.

Not a genuine push.

Yes, and promising to ISO Pine then refusing to do so is suspicious. And the VLA seems convenient.

It may also mean that pine is town.

Not feeling that. He's gone quiet in our game. Hasn't posted in 24 hours, but made ~15 posts in other games in that time. I'd go quiet too if I were scum in his shoes. Early D1 wagons frequently tend to die down on their own.

Out of your scum pool of kuror0/drealmerz/pine/dunn, only dunn is on the wagon, and he's not in a position which I associate with bussing (and he moved back there because he was accused of bussing). It's not a bad wagon.

[Persivul]

744 - is the frustration real or faked?

[Persivul]

Watcha thinking? I'm about ready to vote drealmerz. That last bit felt like fake outrage/wall post to look townie.

[Persivul]

Could go kuror too. But as there's a bit of a wagon on dreal already, that's probably more informative rn.

[Persivul]

Not digging Andrius's reads list in 803. Kuror, drealm, dunnstral all in town. You in null. Me, Jason and creature in scum.

Not digging the buddying with slysly in 804. Will be interesting to see sly's reaction.

Creature has me, you and pine as town. Since I know he's right on 2, that's part of the reason I left Pine.

We currently have 6 days left in phase. The weekend will probably be dead. That means we really have about 4 days left, which means we need to start settling on a lynch. Won't be time to build multiple wagons.

[Persivul]

I'm going to poke the people who are scum reading me a little. A wagon on me could be informative, and I have the mason claim in my back pocket if it got serious.

[Persivul]

I get that he scum reads me, a lot of people do D1, and especially as a mason I'm not real concerned with obv-towning it. But, as I said in thread, I don't like that he has me at the bottom of the list and keeps mentioning me, but doesn't vote me (same with kuror BTW). Could be that since my wagon fell apart he went with Jason, but wants to keep me as a backup. BUT...if he's scum replacing in, why not just jump on the pine or dreal wagon? Doubtful that's the scum team right there.

[Persivul]

Watcha think of pine joining Dreal on my wagon?

I currently have two votes, but others have said they would vote me. I want to see who does, but it could get dangerous fast. If it gets out of control I will likely claim mason and say that my partner will out if necessary, but would prefer to wait if possible. Is that cool?

[Persivul]

You're on dreal all this time and now off?

[Persivul]

L-2(5) drealmerz7 - JasonWazza, Culted, Persivul, Dunnstral, Shaziro

Where are you on jason, dunn, shaz? If dreal's town, it's doubtful this wagon is all town.

IIRC dunn claimed miller, and I've never seen a miller claim flip red.

[Persivul]

kuror: "convenient town read? as scum and if he is a mislynch convenient would be to join the wagon when I came back from weekend and put him at L-1 or just take distance and wait for it to happen with apathy which at this pace would lead to his lynch. Pretty much every other option would be less risky and will yeld more benefits as scum but w/e at this point it will pretty much consider be considered wifom."

That's a valid point. If I'm scum I'm not defending a townie at L-2 with 4 days left in phase. I would put him at L-1 if I thought it wasn't too suspicious, otherwise wait it out and use deadline as an excuse to vote there. kuror as scum and drealz as town doesn't look good.

I'm getting concerned about jason's lack of attention to the game.

[Persivul]

shaz I've gone back and forth on.

[Persivul]

kuror 930: "Blaming about coordinated attacks when I see the same happening with persi and culted, always chain defense."

He sees us working together. If he's scum, the implication is that we're masons. If you're scum and suspect masons, you drop them as lynch targets and move them to the NK pile. Yet, he continues to push both of us.

[Persivul]

L-1 on jason.

[Persivul]

That wasn't a terrible result for night. Wonder if it was a vig shot. If so, is Pine for real and picked the correct target?

[Persivul]

Andrius looks town. If scum there's no reason for him to pull me out of the mislynch pool. Is that just a change in reads, or a somewhat clumsy cop crumb?

[Persivul]

Andrius gave conflicting signals: first said I was 100% town, which indicates investigation; then said he reviewed my ISO and based it on that. Now he said "two of my scumreads flipped town and a third is actually town," which indicates investigation. For now I'm taking it that he means investigation, which indicates town. I don't see scum faking it and taking me out of the mislynch group.

[Persivul]

If dreal is scum, then no, I don't think they're onto that. He has you as his only strong scum read. No point putting that on someone you think can conftown themself at any point.

[Persivul]

Hope you don't mind my kinda sorta claim. Wanted to shake things up a little, see where Dreal goes as you're his sole scum read, and get you the item.

[Persivul]

Cool, you get the item.

[Persivul]

SNAP! Oh well, you had it for a minute or two...

[Persivul]

Pine looks scummy af.

Dreal looks like scum who is good at getting out of trouble.

Not sure what to think about Andrius at this point.

[Persivul]

What do you think about Pine, and that your item was stolen but his wasn't?

[Persivul]

Not sure what to think about shaddow. I checked his activity and he hasn't been posting much elsewhere either. I don't know his scum meta and I'm not doing meta dives this game. Drealz and Pine come well before him.

[Persivul]

You're moving off drealz again?

[Persivul]

What do you think kuror0 is claiming?

If results claims are true and from town, then: kuror, kuroi, andrius, me, and you are all town.

[Persivul]

I ISO'd dreal/andrius together and looked at D2. Andrius seems town. Dreal seems scum...then it does seem like TvT for awhile regarding the message...then he devolves into anger, and I'm not good at distinguishing real frustration from fake.

[Persivul]

Dreal role claims seem legit.

[Persivul]

In 1223, shaziro seems to have figured out that we're masons, and votes for you to get the item. Seems town.

[Persivul]

But then in 1530 he puts you at null/town, and me at null.

[Persivul]

Did you fucking forget that Ive tried to fucking investigate shadow already and it didn't fucking work?

Yes, I forgot. So what? Doesn't make him scum.

Pine is fucking town. dreal is fucking town.

Pine is scummy af. If he's bad town, his flip will at least do us some good.

[Persivul]

Look at Pine jumping on any alternative to himself and asking for fast action, and tell me that;s not scummy.

[Persivul]

Look at Pine jumping on any alternative to himself and asking for fast action, and tell me that;s not scummy.

OK, I see you think that's town behavior somehow. We're just gonna have to disagree on that.

[Persivul]

I'm a fucking rolecop there's no way kuror is town.

Can you explain that logic?

[Persivul]

You're both a mason and a rolecop. Jason was a bodyguard plus BP. You now trust dreal and pine, and they're both claiming multiple abilities. This is role madness on steroids. A cop and a rolecop is not surprising at all.

[Persivul]

The scumteam is shaddow/shaz/kuror0 and if someone turned it's dunn

shaddow - not enough information.
shaz - he's on my suspect list.
kuror - not something I'm voting today.

[Persivul]

And yea it's role madness if you count miller

He didn't say he's

only

a miller.

and creature's roles as PRs which I'll never understand why anyone would

Since creature was turnable, giving him a role would have been very difficult to balance.

But if you don't think it's role madness, you should suspect pine and drealz for claiming multiple roles.

[Persivul]

With all Strahd's powers, bussing seems highly unlikely. People aside from me not on his wagon:

Dunnstral
SlySly
drealmerz7
Shaziro

Two of those 4 are scum. Of those, all but Dunn were on the D1 lynch of Jason. Dreal and shaz for scum?

Who are you going to investigate tonight?

[Persivul]

Although if Sly vigged Creature N1, then Pine's claim of protecting Shaz indicates they're both town. So, Dreal/Dunn for scum.

Also, scum got screwed by shaddowez. He didn't use the messenging ability at all, and died without using the dayvig.

[Persivul]

Scratch that - Drealmerz is dead. Vig shot I presume. That would make it Dunn & Sly.

[Persivul]

And scratch that. Andrius has a guilty on shaziro.