Mini 1855: Questionable Content Mafia - Game Over!
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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You only think that because you haven't played with me yet.In post 41, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Frankly the list is pretty clear of VIs as far as I can see.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Joined: April 3, 2016
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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@SpyreX You're missing nothing, really.
Dunn is reaction testing. Still on the fence as to whether he's scum or town.
camn is probably scum.
Not sure on SpyreX currently.
LLD has lynch immunity from me for today. Mostly because I find her suffering amuses me.
MoI is extremely strong gut town.
Not factoring kraska's claim into reading her.
Socrates is meh.
p-edit ok yeah camn is scum lol.
VOTE: camn-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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This is an incredible reach.In post 65, camn wrote:
Read: I plan to play real scummy cuz I'm scum but I warned you so haha hahaIn post 46, JaeReed wrote:
You only think that because you haven't played with me yet.In post 41, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Frankly the list is pretty clear of VIs as far as I can see.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Actually, you were mildly below my null line anyway. What I perceived as sheeping of Dunn's bad vote just solidified it. Then you decided to reach to make up reasoning for your vote.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Furthermore, if you admit that it's a reach, then you can understand why I perceive your vote as possibly scum motivated. You've effectively disarmed your own argument here.In post 72, camn wrote:Of course it's a reach! It's page 3 work with me here.
Although whenever the person I vote immediately calls me scum and counter votes....I feel like I'm probably on the right track.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I figured it was fairly obvious that I don't really have good thoughts on kraska or socrates yet. If I had to say something about kraska right now it's that I distrust the claim because I feel like she would know perfectly well what I miller is and I don't like that she added "or something" to the end of that post. Still null, though. I'll read her based on her content, since I can't read her well based off her emotions. Socrates is also null, essentially. His confirm felt stiff to me but a quick meta dive confirms that his posting style is gonna feel stiff to me.In post 73, SpyreX wrote:
This is bad and i dont like itIn post 67, JaeReed wrote:@SpyreX You're missing nothing, really.
Dunn is reaction testing. Still on the fence as to whether he's scum or town.
camn is probably scum.
Not sure on SpyreX currently.
LLD has lynch immunity from me for today. Mostly because I find her suffering amuses me.
MoI is extremely strong gut town.
Not factoring kraska's claim into reading her.
Socrates is meh.
p-edit ok yeah camn is scum lol.
VOTE: camn
Why do you not bother saying anything about krasksa actual alignment but actually give words on socrates
Any more questions?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Answered this in my previous thing. I also read into confirmations. Sue me.In post 83, Socrates wrote:I would love to know what this is about, seeing as how I hadn't posted yet.
I would see it as premature scum trying to say something about their partner earlier than they actually need to, but it's about me???-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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In post 0, DiamondSentinel wrote:There are confirmed to be 2 factions in this game. Not-Quite-Assholes and Assholes. Their win-conditions are simplified (they are expounded upon later in the rules), but are as follows in the role PMs.
Not-Quite-Assholes - You win when all Assholes are out of the game, or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Assholes - You win when you control 50% of the town or nothing can prevent this from happening.
I can assure you I assumed no such thing. I assumed a vig might be in the game based on the wording, and I did not assume there would be 3 kills.In post 78, Dunnstral wrote:
No I wasn't - your abrupt "yeah maybe there's a vig" looked scummy to me and it also doesn't make sense from my perspectiveIn post 67, JaeReed wrote:Dunn is reaction testing.
Like, you just assumed that the vig would be the third kill in order to kill 3 people at once? why did you assume there was 2 scum factions/a sk or the like
My thought at the time was 3 way, lynch vt, left with goon vs vig. Technically they'd both die at night.
Didn't read the maf wincon on my first skim tho. Just realized that wouldn't work because they'd win with the lynch instantly I think.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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In post 87, kraska77 wrote:But iaminnoceny and pisskoppu haven't posted yet either so why did you feel the need to single Socrates outWhat?
Socrates had posted to confirm.
I don't have reads on people who haven't posted at all, so I'm not going to mention them.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Is this because I found your suffering over the post restriction amusing?In post 91, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I would like to propose we turbo lynch JaeReed.
I'd like to see a corpse before page 10, folks.
Can we make this happen?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I am never low-hanging fruit. I never called myself lhf either. I've only been mislynched twice. One of those times town was actually legit awful and couldn't have correctly identified town even if the mod announced them as an innocent child. The other time was replacing into a badly read slot that was being pushed by scum!RC.In post 97, Socrates wrote:Is JaeReed typically low-hanging fruit? Because he looks like standard issue low-hanging fruit to me. I guess he did specifically callhimselfout as being such, huh? Blah.
Also, periods are stiff. Noted.
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@MOD:What should our expectations be re:vote counts?
MOD: Umm, similar to the one I just posted. Nothing too fancy. I hate BBCode enough, so I won't be doing fancy ones like Ircher does.
Periods aren't stiff. I just like to gut/tone read early game. Your confirmation didn't ping me as town like for example, Magna's. I went for a meta dive on both you and SpyreX and came to the conclusion it probably didn't mean anything major. Which is generally par for the course.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Again, I am never lynchbait.In post 102, camn wrote:Socrates
I don't totally disagree- they might just be bait... But I certainly am not overwhelmed by Jae's townieness.
Plus I'm trying to #MakeMs.netGreatAgain....starting by powerlynching all VIs.
When I get lynched as town it is for one of two reasons.
1) Town is playing awfully and will definitely lose.
2) A stronger player that is scum is pushing my lynch.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Not sure what you're referencing here? Elaborate?In post 103, SpyreX wrote:This is Charlie Brown and the football all over again-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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It most certainly is.In post 101, kraska77 wrote:
That's not really any different from not posting at allIn post 92, JaeReed wrote:Socrates had posted to confirm.
Even a post that seemingly says nothing can be analyzed, especially in context. A complete lack of posting generally just means the person hasn't gotten to the thread yet.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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{Magna, Dunnstral}
{Socrates}
{kraska, SpyreX, Lil Uzi}
{camn, LLD}
@LUV Any mod worth his salt will make the flavor not be AI.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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The bolded, for clarification.In post 109, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Checking in.
I'm not familiar with any of the flavor but I feel like it could be indicative of alignment in some way. I'll try to read up on it sometime tomorrow.
Taking all of the claims so far with a grain of salt. I think Lady's post restriction thing might be legit though. Seems like it would be very hard to fake butat the same time it's a convenient excuse for lack of content.
Am I missing something with Camn and Jae? Saw a few votes on them and didn't really see anything too scummy.
Not once has LLD used it as an excuse for lack of content.
p-edit: hmmmm Spyrex can go up a tier-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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You have no idea how uneasy you're making me right now given the last game we played together.In post 118, kraska77 wrote:Hey guys camn needs more votes
The way she approached jae shows she's not interested in pressing them for content
Instead of poking jae about the weird comments on Socrates, all she does is call jae scum-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Given your list of words you don't like being used in your sig... I kinda already figured!In post 115, Socrates wrote:Oh boy, if pre-game joking reads as town to you, then we are not going to get along at ALL.
What are your thoughts on the gamestate so far?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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<3 You're fine. I'm sorry the win felt tainted for you. I feel you did earn it despite that, if it's any consolation.In post 122, kraska77 wrote:
Sorry I was really horribly manipulative that game and I'm never playing like that as scum again coz it felt like shit and made the game unfunIn post 120, JaeReed wrote:
You have no idea how uneasy you're making me right now given the last game we played together.In post 118, kraska77 wrote:Hey guys camn needs more votes
The way she approached jae shows she's not interested in pressing them for content
Instead of poking jae about the weird comments on Socrates, all she does is call jae scum
You defended my slot there as well. I don't think you went quite as hard though. I don't even know if it's worth being concerned over because it's possible it's less defending me and more pursuing a scumread. I might just be being jumpy over nothing.In post 123, kraska77 wrote:But I don't see how anything in doing here bears any resemblance to what I did There-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Why don't you like that you like it?In post 128, Socrates wrote:
I like that you asked me a direct question!JaeReed wrote:
Given your list of words you don't like being used in your sig... I kinda already figured!In post 115, Socrates wrote:Oh boy, if pre-game joking reads as town to you, then we are not going to get along at ALL.
What are your thoughts on the gamestate so far?
I don't like that I like it so much. You said you did a quick meta dive on me, correct? Am I that easy to read?
I did, but I was just skimming for whether your general posts would come off as stiff early game to me. Conclusion was that you confirming that way was NAI and I should probably focus on your content. For example, reading a highly emotional player confirming so stiffly would indicate to me that the person is most likely concerned in some way over their alignment/role. My guess is you're probably more on the logical side than emotional when playing. I could be wrong, but.
I don't find you easy to read. If I found you easy to read then I wouldn't have asked for your thoughts on the gamestate as an attempt to engage you.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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TIL "meh" accounts to an actual read.
And no, camn is voting me for joking that I am a VI. Apparently that implies I was saying I'd play like scum.
Also, I didn't leave kraska off the list. She was there. I just said I wasn't reading into the claim. Socrates was "meh" because all I had to go off was the confirmation comment, which was null. Kraska got a bit more on why I didn't have a read yet because she had posted something more in thread.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Out of curiosity, what do you think kraska could have pressed you on that I hadn't already done?In post 132, camn wrote:kraska-
I don't think Jae needs to be pressed for more content. He seems pretty prolific rn. That's a weird thing to demand.
Of course...now that you bring it up... I don't seeyou"pressing"mefor content. You are just asking for more votes and stuff, right?
I don't think that is scummy, really. But you apparently do?
You ignored my rebuttal that your argument was shit even by your own standards. So you effectively shut down and went back to sheeping other player's opinions by agreeing with someone else that I might be low hanging fruit.
Which is all I feel I've seen you do all game. Sheep other's opinions. Which would be null, except for the fact that you're doing it in a way that makes me feel as though you don't want them to realize you're doing it.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Just looked up the reference (and yes I know of Charlie Brown, I just never read most of it).
Why did you perceive what was happening there to be reminiscent of that strip?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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In saying this did you mean to imply you found some people to be giving off strong town vibes by this stage in the game? If so, who and why?In post 102, camn wrote:But I certainly am not overwhelmed by Jae's townieness.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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This list is meh now that I'm rereading. LLD's comments aren't necessarily showing scum motivation this early in the game. I think that was partial omgus.In post 112, JaeReed wrote:{Magna, Dunnstral}
{Socrates}
{kraska, SpyreX, Lil Uzi}
{camn, LLD}
@LUV Any mod worth his salt will make the flavor not be AI.
{Dunnstral}
{Magna, Socrates, kraska}
{Spyrex}
{Lil Uzi, LLD}
{camn}-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Didn't know you had words you like to hear. Just that I tend to use a lot of the words you hate in my games. My style of speech sometimes changes depending on who I'm talking to, so maybe that's what happened there?In post 137, Socrates wrote:
See, you referenced my list of Words I Don't Like in a negative way, but not only have you not used any of those words, you also seem to have access to my secret list of Words That I Love To Hear.In post 131, JaeReed wrote: Why don't you like that you like it?
I did, but I was just skimming for whether your general posts would come off as stiff early game to me. Conclusion was that you confirming that way was NAI and I should probably focus on your content. For example, reading a highly emotional player confirming so stiffly would indicate to me that the person is most likely concerned in some way over their alignment/role. My guess is you're probably more on the logical side than emotional when playing. I could be wrong, but.
I don't find you easy to read. If I found you easy to read then I wouldn't have asked for your thoughts on the gamestate as an attempt to engage you.
Gamestate
Engage
Thoughts
And so on. I love it when someone engages me directly, and you are saying exactly the things that would appeal to my personal ego, and you started doing it rather abruptly.
You did all this, yet you failed to comment on howIfailed to actually answer your question.
Is... Is SpyreX telling you what to say?
I noted you didn't answer my question. I was unsure whether you thought you were answering my question by stating that you liked me asking you a question, as technically that is a comment on something in the game, though not necessarily the gamestate as a whole. I decided to do a reread and see if I could find anything particular I wanted to prod you about rather than jump down your throat over what could possibly be miscommunication.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Why were you townreading SpyreX over everyone else at that point in the game?In post 141, camn wrote:Jae- your jokes earned my vote.
Your reactions kept it.
And the fact that you don't know about Charlie Brown and his football? Unforgivable
Townies? Spyrex.
FYI - I'm about to get in a plane, so I'll be away for 5 hours. Since constant amazinness is the expectation, I thought I'd announce :/
I don't believe anyone stated that they expected constant posting.
What reactions did you dislike? Why are they scum indicative?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Not at all.In post 143, camn wrote:Where as your feelings on me are total OMGUS?
I already stated that you were below null before your vote on me.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Gut. I liked his confirmation and the joking. That's all.In post 145, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Why the TR on Magna?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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K.. Update!
Spoiler: Socrates
Spoiler: Dunnstral
Spoiler: kraska77
Spoiler: MagnaofIllusion
Spoiler: Lil Uzi Vert
Spoiler: SpyreX
Spoiler: Lady Lambdadelta
Spoiler: camn-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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@Socrates Your entire premise here is flawed in that it's built off SpyreX being scum, and if you feel he's scum that strongly then you should be voting for him, not me.
Imagine I get revealed as Innocent Child right now. What would that tell you about SpyreX? Nothing.
Now imagine SpyreX gets revealed as Innocent Child. Suddenly I can't be his partner. In that situation would you stay on me or move your vote? If you'd stay on me then there has to be more to your vote than believing that I was being coached on what to say in scum chat.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Could you elaborate on the SpyreX read please?In post 154, kraska77 wrote:
I feel good about the names strikedIn post 0, DiamondSentinel wrote:MagnaofIllusion
JaeReed
camn
SpyreX
Nachomamma8
Lady Lambdadelta
I Am Innocent
pisskop
Dunnstral
Socrates
Lil Uzi Vert
At this point, willing to wagon everyone else ^_^-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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My vote originally was less about the attempt at pressure by voting me and more about my perception of her playing being sheeping the opinions of others while trying to hide that that's what she's doing. The fact that she cited a bad reason for the vote, then refused to back off once I proved her reasoning to be reachy even by her own standards indicates to me that she's got no intention of genuinely trying to sort me. Even after I put out actual content I don't feel like she was trying to get a read on me.In post 167, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Might be because of how Jae couldn't I guess the see town motivation in Camn's attempt at pressuring.
I could very well be wrong, which is why I'm wanting more from her on slots that aren't me, because I might better be able to figure out whether her reads are genuine when they don't involve me.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Ok, what do you think about the rest of my case on her?
You've already commented on the gamestate somewhat so do you have any reads from that?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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So you can't see the town motivation behind that post... What do you believe the scum motivation would be in that case?In post 174, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Her 154 pinged me. I don't see why town would be willing to wagon players who have not posted yet.-
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@camn I still want the reasoning for SpyreX being a townread at the moment you said that I wasn't being town enough to make you reconsider on whether I was lynchbait. Also your reasoning for reconsidering on me now please.
UNVOTE:
Pending Socrates vote reasoning.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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kraska77 wrote:My 10 minutes?
I think she's talking about between post 23 and 27. Yes I know this is directly at odds with her seemingly being frustrated over feeling she has to announce she'll be gone for 5 hours in 141 don't ask me what she's thinking I'm drunk.In post 29, camn wrote:What did you do for 10 minutes, kraska??
Anyway I want from camn:
1) Reasoning for changing her mind on me.
2) Reasoning for townreading SpyreX by 102
3) Reasoning for Socrates vote as promised.
I'll work out wtf I wanna do when I'm sober in the morning.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Aight, well I'll half address shit since I'm actually p drunk atm.
kraska thing.. Firstly, day started 11:31am my time. Kraska's first post was 11:52am my time. So 20 min diff.
Secondly, regardless of alignment I feel like that's angle shooting. Judge someone on their content, not on shit that could be easily attributed to RL stuff. Like that's the time it would take me to do the dishes or get dinner on or do shit with the dog or bird, y'know? I just don't feel like timing is a worthwhile avenue to pursue.
Third, it's not even a given that she PM'ed back her confirmation at the time the thread opened.
pedit - kraska addressed it w/e-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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wha?
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Lol I wondered if anyone else would question the mod on that after the first alleged PM.
Spy is town.
Uzi seems townish.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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uhhh no idea just yet sorry.
Like I think spy is probably town but I dont' know what he's trying to say lately
camn stuff i kinda want more than what she gave me tbh, it's cool if she doesn't wanna explain the spy townread yet but i would like the read on me and socrates explained in more detail tomorrow or whenever she gets around to it.
can't think much more beyond that tonight sorry. <3
kraska is still town for anyone who is curious. my high confidence trs are both kraska and dunnstral at this point-
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wrt 67 what don't you like about my early reads? Just the simple fact I gave reads early, or do you disagree with the reads & thoughts?In post 204, MagnaofIllusion wrote:@Jaelet’s talk. I’m having a hard time deciding whether I believe your 67 reads list comes from Town or not.
Why did I drop tiers in your reads list between 112 and 142 given I had no activity during that time-frame?
Also,
Why didn’t you meta dive me to see if my opening looks like Town Magna? Because I will tell you it is an absolute departure from my usual style.In post 105, JaeReed wrote:Periods aren't stiff. I just like to gut/tone read early game. Your confirmation didn't ping me as town like for example, Magna's. I went for a meta dive on both you and SpyreX and came to the conclusion it probably didn't mean anything major. Which is generally par for the course.
You didn't drop in tiers between 112 and 142. Other people moved around you when I did my reread after cooling off a bit.
I didn't feel particularly off with your entry so I didn't dive you. Even if I had, I probably wouldn't have bothered to do a dive, as I've seen you play before. The idea was to see how the posting style of the people in question read to me in general to see if there's any merit to the stiff confirmation there. There wasn't.-
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LLD had posted about her restriction by the time I reached the thread, I believe. I don't see why that's so hard for you to understand, really.In post 252, Socrates wrote:So, Jae deciding to state a neutral read on me before I had even begun to post is weird as hell, as I (and other people) have already pointed out. Confused about why he would do that, I (and others) press him about singling me out, of all people.
His answer? That my confirmation post felt "stiff" and that he had done a "meta dive" on me (and SpyreX!? post 105) to research my playstyle.
Stiff?
STIFF?
Compare my confirmation post to Lady's six posts earlier, remembering that this would be BEFORE Lady could say anything about her (ostensible) post restriction:In post 2, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:This is a confirmation post.I'm the oddly stiff one? Rubbish.
And of course it was all a dead end with nothing to show for it than a 'meh'.
Why do the legwork on such an obvious dead-end, and NOT do the leg-work on his gut-town read of MOI (as MOI has, again, already pointed out himself)?
It doesn't make any sense.
And yes, I also checked up on SpyreX. He was another one that I felt had a kind of stiff confirm post. And no, it's not an "obvious dead-end" as you seem to think. I've fingered scum off that before in the past. I possibly just got lucky, idunno, but point is, it has worked for me before and I see no reason to not scumhunt as early as I can.
Also, I'd never bother to meta dive MoI. I've seen his posting style before. I dive on people I have no experience with whatsoever and even then it's only if I have doubts on whether my read on them is any good.
Veiled compliments? Don't get you.I expressed my dissatisfaction with his logic not only on me, but also on MOI and he turns around and says something about my sig and starts trying to "engage" me directly. I consciously and deliberately turned it around on him to see if he was actually interested in feeling me out or if he was just trying to stroke my ego, and he proceeds to give me a bunch of veiled compliments while failing to follow through on his push.
The words you like I didn't even know were words you liked. I've been reading a lot of mafia theory lately because I've had problems with my reads. A lot of it I guess is posted by older players or something and I picked up the usage from there and fell into using it with you because that's what I tend to do.
I don't even know what you mean by "consciously and deliberately turned it around on him" like... eh w/e. I'm actually reaching the end of my patience so I guess I need to cool it a bit.
I wouldn't buddy up to any of those accounts if I wanted to buddy. I don't know any of you. If I were planning to buddy someone this game it'd be someone I've played with previously.I've speculated that Jae was coached to do this by another member of the mafia. It might not have even been coaching about me specifically, just a suggestion to buddy up with one of the more experienced players and use their egos against them, or something. The three oldest accounts in this game are (I think?) me, Spy, and Camn, and Spy being the coach would explain why Jae would choose to 'meta' me and Spy but nobody else. Now that I look at it, though, Camn being the coach would also fit astoundingly well.
But that's not the important part, it was just an idle thought about how this would fit into the larger game. It means nothing until we've lynched this Jae fellow and proven him scum.
BUT
I'm starting to get to the point where I just want to murder some lurkers.
Dunn has contributed fuckall.
Pisskop has failed to appear.
Nacho needs to stop reading the webcomic and start playing.
SpyreX, is your current vote serious?
Is it a part of Lady's post restriction that she has to complain about having said restriction in every post she makes?
You seem to equate older accounts with being scumhunting gods. You're not. None of us are. Egos lose games.
Also, you think camn could have coached me? Y'know, the person who was tunneling me and i was tunneling them earlier? You can't seriously believe that.
Also also, Dunn has contributed a lot. He's not a lurker and he's one of my more confident townreads.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Claim w/ flavor thing yeah I agree it matches, but it doesn't matter whether it does or not. kraska's town by play.In post 211, I Am Innocent wrote:Re Spyrex's Post 40 believing kraska's claim matches her flavor, do others familiar with this theme agree?
Post 55 is bad too. JaeReed yells at Dunn for bringing up something but then clarifies it even more "@Dunn my guess is possibility of a vig. Why bother to bring it up?"
JaeReed overreacts in 67 big time with an OMGUS vote and huge reads list.
Post 55 is hardly what I'd call yelling. I responded to him and questioned his motive for drawing attention to it because it felt kinda like PR fishing to me.
That wasn't an OMGUS vote. That reads list was on its way regardless as I like giving early reads when I have them. It pushes actual content out there much faster. That reads list was coming regardless of anyone voting me or not.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Sure. This game:In post 237, I Am Innocent wrote:@JaeReed, can you please link me to a game where you read into confirmations before (Post 86 "I also read into confirmations. Sue me.")
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=66896
I held off on posting there until everyone had posted, but I did make an early room with Charloux because of his confirmation & first post making him an extremely strong townread for me early on.
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/2nZRGwPDz5Cgk
That's the room. Post 3 in that QT is the reads, and I made that post I think around page 2 of that game while I was waiting for everyone to check in.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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You're right; it was more current thoughts on players in the game, but I find that to be synonymous with reads anyway since it does indeed show where I stand on them. I had a lot of slots that I wasn't quite sure about that I still had thoughts on. I try not to neglect anyone who has posted when I do that or give a reads list. I gave my thoughts on the players in the game. I still don't see why you have a problem with that, honestly.In post 285, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
I didn’t find the reads themselves made much sense. This has all been parsed before but the Socrates read there was really, really odd. I mean I’m not much of a tone-reader but nothing about the post he made said “stiff” to me.In post 246, JaeReed wrote:wrt 67 what don't you like about my early reads? Just the simple fact I gave reads early, or do you disagree with the reads & thoughts?
And I don’t grok the “Dunn is reaction testing” stance as reaction testing is not something scum do in my mind. Reaction testing at the heart is making posts and trying to read who people react to learn alignments. Scum (especially in a 12 person mini which we know isn’t multiball) don’t need to do that.
Finally too many of your presented reads are not that. Dunn / Spyrex / LLD / Kraska / Socrates are all basically fence-sits. The only actual reads given are Camn and myself. The rest are basically filling space but say nothing concrete at all to judge your posting buy.
Well then I have a problem then. In your first reads list I was in the top tier. In the second I was in the second tier. If you are saying that your tiered lists don’t’ actually translate to set reads (first slot is Strong Town, second slot is weak Town, etc) then I question the point of a lists as you have presented them.In post 246, JaeReed wrote:You didn't drop in tiers between 112 and 142. Other people moved around you when I did my reread after cooling off a bit.
Name games where you have seen me before then.In post 246, JaeReed wrote:I didn't feel particularly off with your entry so I didn't dive you. Even if I had, I probably wouldn't have bothered to do a dive, as I've seen you play before.
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Socrates read ended up "meh" purely because I checked up on his posting style and deemed that it was more likely just the way he types that feels stiff to me. The stiffness came in the lack of joking or carefree mannerisms that I tend to read from more emotional players when they confirm.
Reaction testing is only town indicative with follow up. I couldn't give a read on whether he's town or scum following what I thought was a reaction test at the time when I still hadn't seen his conclusions reached from it. I'm having a hard time buying that you seriously believe I should have had a solid read on him off a reaction test that I hadn't seen follow up to at the time.
I'm not changing the way I do my reads lists, so you'll have to deal with it. I picked it up as a fresh newbie when idolizing Ranger so here's a nice explanation of what the tiers mean: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7721635
Game. Just one. Open 637, beeboy's Fire and Ice. You replaced Io. I was reading that game because Ranger was in it (in a hydra with RC).-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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It's really hard for me to keep my cool when you're just assuming that I'm lying about my read on LLD being influenced by the fact that she claimed her post restriction when it's right there in the thread and also prior to my post about my thoughts on her. You could have fact checked that. The fact that you didn't implies that you're either so confbiased and set in your read of me that this whole exchange is useless because you're going to be tunneled on town no matter what, or that you're scum that doesn't want to admit your point there is a load of bullcrap.In post 286, Socrates wrote:
That's an easy lie to make, but I guess it's easy because it's plausible. Eh, If you say so.In post 270, JaeReed wrote: LLD had posted about her restriction by the time I reached the thread, I believe. I don't see why that's so hard for you to understand, really.
Veiled compliments? Don't get you.
The words you like I didn't even know were words you liked. I've been reading a lot of mafia theory lately because I've had problems with my reads. A lot of it I guess is posted by older players or something and I picked up the usage from there and fell into using it with you because that's what I tend to do.
The parts where you call me a 'logical' player and 'of course I am a difficult read' and whatever. They're called 'veiled' compliments because they appeal without being direct.
You know, the whole part where I didn't answer your question but instead asked you a question about myself? Which you *totally* noted yet elected not to say anything about?I don't even know what you mean by "consciously and deliberately turned it around on him" like... eh w/e. I'm actually reaching the end of my patience so I guess I need to cool it a bit.
That's what I... That was my entire...I wouldn't buddy up to any of those accounts if I wanted to buddy. I don't know any of you. If I were planning to buddy someone this game it'd be someone I've played with previously.
You seem to equate older accounts with being scumhunting gods. You're not. None of us are. Egos lose games.
*sigh*
What Camn said.Also, you think camn could have coached me? Y'know, the person who was tunneling me and i was tunneling them earlier? You can't seriously believe that.
I would hardly say that thinking you're a logical player in general is a compliment. I'm not appealing to you; I'm trying to sort you. To do that I need to identify what kind of player you are so I have more of a chance at getting into your mindset and evaluating your content for how genuine I feel it is coming from you. You asked me if you were easy to read. I said you're not. Again, this is not a compliment. In fact, if you're town I'd almost take that as an insult because townshouldbe easy to read as town. A good town player is one that makes themselves known to other town, correctly identifies other town, and works with said other town to solve the game. Not being easy to read is not a compliment imo. The only time that even maybe becomes a compliment is if you're scum. And even then... eh... it means that you're not faking town well enough to be easily townread.
Oh, the part that I already addressed. The part where I was open to it just being a communication error and figured I'd try another method to ask you your thoughts by being less vague when I could pinpoint what exactly I wanted a comment from you regarding.
No, that's not what you were getting at. You were getting at a belief that I would want to buddy you because you're one of the older accounts. That belief is incredibly self-centred imo and it comes across as though you have an inflated ego regarding older accounts.
I don't have anything on the last point except a belief that I definitely wouldn't try that as newb scum because I don't have the confidence to pull it off. My personal judgement of my scum game is worthless to you here, though, since you're not me.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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VOTE: Socrates
I can feasibly see scum pulling off what he did as a huge show to contrive a reason to hop on my wagon.
I feel better about camn. It does feel like she's actively trying to sort people, even if I don't necessarily agree with her methods and thought processes.
IAI is someone I want more from before I can make a judgement. The thing is, I can see a lot of the viewpoints he's arriving at possibly coming from a town mindset in his catch up.
Dunn why do you think LLD is town? My lack of a solid read on her is getting frustrating. Help me out here.
pisskop are you caught up? reads?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Doesn't show for me either.In post 285, MagnaofIllusion wrote:MOD – I’ll be V/LA from tonight at 4:30 EST until Monday. Thanksgiving family time and normal weekend duties. I will try to get some content into the thread but it will sporadic and phone-posted most likely.
No prob. I understand. Happy Thanksgiving!
@IAI– if you are going to make posts where you reference post numbers and are Town please use the [ post] INSERT NUMBER [ / post ] feature (with the spaces removed) to make it easier to review your references.
@Dunn– do you think kraska is scummy for Beetlejucing in 214?
I’m also interested enough by 255 to lay down a vote there.
VOTE: Camn
Because she’s just come off a large post explaining how Socrates is scum (239) yet is less than 20 posts later happy to jump on the “lynch a lurker” bandwagon? Said bandwagon first presented by her scum read Socrates?
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Oh so instead of being a completely fluff-filled entry 109 has hidden content. Why did you feel the reason to hide content? I mean if you are saying there is a breadcrumb there that is irrelevant since breadcrumbs aren’t content but tools to help support later claims.In post 207, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:4.) You said my opening post didn't say anything, I am merely correcting you that it did and if need be, I will reveal what it says. I'm also not worried about your suspicion of me.
You are wandering into straw-manning territory here by presenting very situational, narrow scenarios and using it to undermine the concept that wagon formation is a scum-hunting tool.In post 209, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:And what reaction is one supposed to get after signs of being shown the player's bandwagon that they jumped on or started is not here? I don't see what reads one can gain from someone unwilling to wagon a player who has not posted yet.
Why people jump on wagons and why they don’t is a very good analysis tool down the line.
Let’s analyse the wagon activity (or lack thereof) in this game so far. I find it interesting that we’ve already gotten to page 10 and not a single wagon above 3 votes has formed. In a 12 player game that’s less than half the lynch threshold. This is pretty unusual for Day 1 in a Mini Theme. What does that say to you?
Also, I’d very much like to see your thoughts on camn and Dunn voting for a completely absent Pisskop.
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Sven is a reasonable flavor match for a Miller – person who looks like an asshole but really wants to be a better person.In post 211, I Am Innocent wrote:Re Spyrex's Post 40 believing kraska's claim matches her flavor, do others familiar with this theme agree?
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Can you elaborate on why you think this because this is pretty moonbeams and I don’t get the sense from the rest of your posts that you are a moonbeams sorta guy.In post 222, Socrates wrote:MOI is really hung up on Lady's post restriction.
The game has been open a whopping 26 or so hours when you made this. You are ready to start murdering “lurkers” before people can even be due a prod?In post 252, Socrates wrote:I'm starting to get to the point where I just want to murder some lurkers.
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Um camn I’m not sure if I buy this. You often hydra with Katsuki for heavens sakes … you can’t really expect me to believe a few rhetoric posts are enough to set you off to such a degree. I mean – here are all the posts from kraska that might fit that profile from 70 to 181.In post 239, camn wrote:Yea- its the stuff BETWEEN 70 and 181 that torqued me. All the MOAR VOTES HERE nonsense.
That’s it. That is the only post where kraska does anything remotely like “MORE CAMN VOTES”. And even then it’s not completely empty there are reasons attached.In post 118, kraska77 wrote:Hey guys camn needs more votes
The way she approached jae shows she's not interested in pressing them for content
Instead of poking jae about the weird comments on Socrates, all she does is call jae scum
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I didn’t find the reads themselves made much sense. This has all been parsed before but the Socrates read there was really, really odd. I mean I’m not much of a tone-reader but nothing about the post he made said “stiff” to me.In post 246, JaeReed wrote:wrt 67 what don't you like about my early reads? Just the simple fact I gave reads early, or do you disagree with the reads & thoughts?
And I don’t grok the “Dunn is reaction testing” stance as reaction testing is not something scum do in my mind. Reaction testing at the heart is making posts and trying to read who people react to learn alignments. Scum (especially in a 12 person mini which we know isn’t multiball) don’t need to do that.
Finally too many of your presented reads are not that. Dunn / Spyrex / LLD / Kraska / Socrates are all basically fence-sits. The only actual reads given are Camn and myself. The rest are basically filling space but say nothing concrete at all to judge your posting buy.
Well then I have a problem then. In your first reads list I was in the top tier. In the second I was in the second tier. If you are saying that your tiered lists don’t’ actually translate to set reads (first slot is Strong Town, second slot is weak Town, etc) then I question the point of a lists as you have presented them.In post 246, JaeReed wrote:You didn't drop in tiers between 112 and 142. Other people moved around you when I did my reread after cooling off a bit.
Name games where you have seen me before then.In post 246, JaeReed wrote:I didn't feel particularly off with your entry so I didn't dive you. Even if I had, I probably wouldn't have bothered to do a dive, as I've seen you play before.
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And I believe the promise SpyreX was talking about was LLD wanting me lynched by page 10.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Eh, I'm not feeling pisskop. I actually liked his reaction to being scumread. The whole "you need to learn the differences" thing.-
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{Dunnstral, kraska}
{camn, Uzi}
{pisskop}
{IAI, Magna, SpyreX}
{Nacho, LLD}
{Socrates}
sick of keeping notepad open for this so I'll just post it in thread.
I need followups from IAI & Magna.
Mostly I wanna give ppl time for thanksgiving since I think that's goin on over there. Plus been giving Nacho some time to read up on QC.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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^ it's kinda moonlogic, camn. Like why would scum admit to that for one? You'd just ignore it wouldn't you? Also like even if you did go to talk in the scum pt first there's nothing to say you confirmed before the game actually began and not just before you made your first post in thread, y'know?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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