Newbie 1763 | Foreigners of a Person - Happy Ending?

[Srceenplay]

I, personally, thought it was weird to do an unofficial vote count, especially with the links included. That and the trying too hard is enough for me to VOTE: Toto right now.


I like Fruitsman for town. I think I was in his first game quite recently, so it's just a meta read at this point.

Gut feel is Mooney voted Toto to try to look town, but from an actual town perspective. Like it's newbie Fear of Missing Out (or fear of being scum read) for not doing the popular thing.

Can't tell with Titus (I've never seen her IC before).

No idea about the others yet

So here you can see her get onto the Toto wagon. Why not join the others right, it was a good enough reason to.
Also this is where I start to she the Mooney relationship. She tries to explain Mooney's vote for Her like she is a complete noob but if look look at Mooney's first post she explain that she does have mafia experience.

Wow four pages, I wasn't expecting that. I was told by the person that got me on this site that these games last forever compared to our 24 hour phases on AF.org so when it was still on page one when I went home from work I figured I could wait till this morning to check in again. I apologize, I will be more aware from now on. Now a few things.

I am a girl, if you want you may call me Mandy but Mooney works too as long as we get the pronoun right... Toto :p

I voted for Toto based on the comment about his avatar and nothing else. I was taught to create wagons quickly though so we can analyze who is on the wagon. I've played 9 mafia games but they were bastard madness games where you can't trust anything and it is much faster paced so I'm really out of my element here and trying to relearn the style of basic mafia which is why I need this newbie game. I didn't intend to get the wagon to almost lynched I was trying to put heat on Toto so more reads could come of it. Let me go back through the thread with a fine tooth comb and give reads on everyone. Until then,

UNVOTE:

Here I feel Mooney's post here she explains how she plays fast paced games, get in quick with votes.(lynch?) She is not used to people slowing down the past and thinking and analyzing actions. She caught herself and said she wouldn't do it again.

Alright my notes (which aren't much)

Toto I'm sorry but you are acting like you want to be pegged scum. At worst you are scum at best you are anti-town.
Srceenplay has been scum hunting
Elhabe21 scum hunting a little
Fruitsman spoke up with reads
shannon good reads, and I about died laughing with the Africa joke. You get kudos there lol
Arrowscum opinion on toto was discussed which I think is a bit of scum hunting but not enough

Also I got RVS and L-1 but I think I missed what SRC means.

Here you can see her reads. Toto still has the pressure on, and Mooney intends to keep there. Its understandable still right now though.
What does she say about Shannon... a big pat on the back. Personal from Shannons reads all I sam was a "don't worry I got you Mooney."

Im pretty sure Im town and therefore the wagon is quite informative to me. You can also take a leap of faith and assume Im town while holding your breath for a few seconds and try to draw some conclusions based on that. It is not very hard

I would like to hear Shannons opinion on arrow. Im very curious about that.

The point of the game is to not assume not take anyone's word for truth so I'm sorry but your wagon means nothing right now. If you die at some point and turn up town for sure we will go back and look at it. Unfortunately it was really early on so I don't know how much we can take for real game play instead of getting the game started.

Yeah I have mixed feelings about her. Her behavior is very townie looking. my main problem with Krylea is that she has a little too much confidence and is trying to become the voice of town a little too hard.

After continuing on with Toto and with Toto defending his actions Mooney finally says it was early game play, probably doesn't mean nothing.
So then she sheeps directions to the pushy Krylea.


I know this seems like more about Mooney but my gut tells me they are connected. I was waiting to see if I could get more interactions between they to but figured I would just give them a little push. Shannon also has not in my view had an original thought. Her votes come in after someone else votes...so pressure time.

UNVOTE: Titus

VOTE: Shannon

I'm voting Shannon now over Mooney because it puts more pressure on her for now.
I think that puts you at L-2 would you like to say anything or defend Mooney before you go to sleep?

[mlmooney89]

Oh I apologize for changing my stance once I realized that my old tactics don't work here. /sarcasm

I really don't know how random talking and talking about the same damn thing really helps the game. Throwing a wagon on a person is what gets people talking I tried that but y'all freaked out saying it was too early. I'm not sure how much more we can talk about the one wagon we formed nor how we are supposed to get reads from nothing. Day one sucks yes, and 9 out of 10 times town gets lynched no matter how much talk there is. I want more wagons, hell wagon me. I don't care cause at least that's summin to talk about. Seeing how there is already a vote on Shannon and you think I am bffs with her cause I liked her play so far instead of Kryleas harsh tactics let's go that way. I've been trying to hold back due to not wanting to pretend I'm an expert at this game seeing how game play is too different but ya know what this game is going nowhere like this so might as well play how I'm used to. If someone gets lynched soon so be it.

VOTE: shannon

[shannon]

Whew, done with my exam. Man, fuck physics, I'm so done with undergrad.

Seems like a bit of a slow day, not much has happened since I checked this morning. What is with this lack of posting from arrow, shannon, fruit, and elhabe?

I only just got up, it's 8:45AM here.

Well since your here, what are some of your thoughts on the thread right now?

I could ask you the same question. You've barely posted anything all game. To both you and shannon, since you both obviously have some degree of access:

a) What do you think of the Toto wagon?
b) Who are your scumreads and why?
c) Why are you lurking instead of contributing?

And lurking again

a) I think Toto looked bad early on and deserved some votes, but the wagon happened too quickly for it to be genuine. There's scum on it somewhere, not sure where though. Gut currently says that Toto is town, just misguided.

b) I am getting scummy vibes from the people who are focusing on lurking. For one, I'm not lurking: The main posts of the game happen overnight for me, so I'm not part of them. I also have a life outside of this game, full of boring adult obligations that take me away from this. (Today's was painting my house). When Elhabe says 'since you're here', I posted about three hours before that. I think it's scummy of Srceenplay to say 'and lurking again' afterwards.

c) I'm not lurking, I simply have a life to lead and another game that's more interesting than this one.

[Creature]

Spoiler:

Walkie-Talkie: Yeah, the building should look like this.
: So what do we do now?
Walkie-Talkie: We wait.
: Can we stop for an ice cream?
: No.

Votecount 1.3

Votecount 1.3

[1] Srceenplay - Arrowscum
[0] mlmooney89
[0] fruitsman
[0] krylea
[0] Elhabe21
[2] Arrowscum - krylea, shannon
[0] Toto
[3] shannon - Titus, Srceenplay, mlmooney89
[1] Titus - fruitsman

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Elhabe21, Toto

9 players are alive, therefore 5 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-12-22 13:00:00)

[Creature]

Arrowscum has been prodded.

[shannon]

@Screenplay seems you missed an unvote, it's Mooney's vote that puts me at L-2. For what it's worth I don't actually feel like I'm under pressure here, for one because Mooney has apparently only voted me to show that we're not connected.

[shannon]

@Creature happy cake day!

[shannon]

Spoiler:

Walkie-Talkie: I think tonight is when they do that weird rithual.
???: Yeah, we could find that person behind it.
Walkie-Talkie: Just watch out, they like to do sacrifices and if they find you, you'll look like a good one.
???: I got this.

Votecount 1.1

Votecount 1.1

[0] Srceenplay
[1] mlmooney89 - krylea
[0] fruitsman
[1] krylea - Toto
[0] Elhabe21
[0] Arrowscum
[3] Toto - mlmooney89, Elhabe21, Srceenplay
[1] shannon - Titus
[1] Titus - fruitsman

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Arrowscum, shannon

9 players are alive, therefore 5 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-12-22 13:00:00)

Spoiler:

: Do we have to disguise?
: No, we already have two agents doing that. Our goal is to find the person behind this if you didn't listen before.

Votecount 1.2

Votecount 1.2

[1] Srceenplay - Arrowscum
[0] mlmooney89
[0] fruitsman
[0] krylea
[0] Elhabe21
[1] Arrowscum - krylea
[1] Toto - Elhabe21
[2] shannon - Titus, Toto
[1] Titus - fruitsman

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: shannon, Srceenplay, mlmooney89

9 players are alive, therefore 5 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-12-22 13:00:00)

Spoiler:

Walkie-Talkie: Yeah, the building should look like this.
: So what do we do now?
Walkie-Talkie: We wait.
: Can we stop for an ice cream?
: No.

Votecount 1.3

Votecount 1.3

[1] Srceenplay - Arrowscum
[0] mlmooney89
[0] fruitsman
[0] krylea
[0] Elhabe21
[2] Arrowscum - krylea, shannon
[0] Toto
[3] shannon - Titus, Srceenplay, mlmooney89
[1] Titus - fruitsman

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Elhabe21, Toto

9 players are alive, therefore 5 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-12-22 13:00:00)

If we're talking about connections, Screenplay and Mooney seem to vote together a lot?

[mlmooney89]

I voted to show no connection yes but that's only a small portion. You also already had two votes and I'm not concerned if you get lynched. Saying YOU aren't concerned isn't a helping factor for you. And please tell me why if I was with screenplay would we be so blatantly obvious about it?

[mlmooney89]

I voted to show no connection yes but that's only a small portion. You also already had two votes and I'm not concerned if you get lynched. Saying YOU aren't concerned isn't a helping factor for you. And please tell me why if I was with screenplay would we be so blatantly obvious about it?

[mlmooney89]

Sorry about the double post, it didn't say it was loading and I didn't think my finger hit the submit button... This is why I hate being mobile.

[shannon]

Yeah, mobile is tough, I hate using it and it always eats all my quotes when I hit Q+

**

OK, if you've got another reason for voting me other than showing we're not connected (which would look like bussing, if anyone didn't believe you), can you explain what it is?

Below is your post - - I've bolded anything that looks like a reason, but all the reasons you give are just to distance from me or to generally get the game going. It's also really suspicious to vote me when you say you 'liked my play instead of Kryleas harsh tactics'. That's why I feel no stress at being wagoned, because I think by voting me you've actually exposed yourself.



"I really don't know how random talking and talking about the same damn thing really helps the game.

Throwing a wagon on a person is what gets people talking I tried that but y'all freaked out saying it was too early

. I'm not sure how much more we can talk about the one wagon we formed nor how we are supposed to get reads from nothing. Day one sucks yes, and 9 out of 10 times town gets lynched no matter how much talk there is.

I want more wagons, hell wagon me. I don't care cause at least that's summin to talk about. Seeing how there is already a vote on Shannon and you think I am bffs with her cause I liked her play so far instead of Kryleas harsh tactics let's go that way.

I've been trying to hold back due to not wanting to pretend I'm an expert at this game seeing how game play is too different but ya know what this game is going nowhere like this so might as well play how I'm used to. If someone gets lynched soon so be it."

[krylea]

since no one else will I will post some more to het this going. This is my read so far. Some of it is just gut feeling but most importantly I feel i have narrowed down the scum.

Town
Krylea
Fruitsman
Toto
Elhabe21
Titus
Arrow
MlMooney
SHANNON
Scum

So nice job catching the scumteam...

Oh I apologize for changing my stance once I realized that my old tactics don't work here. /sarcasm

I really don't know how random talking and talking about the same damn thing really helps the game. Throwing a wagon on a person is what gets people talking I tried that but y'all freaked out saying it was too early. I'm not sure how much more we can talk about the one wagon we formed nor how we are supposed to get reads from nothing. Day one sucks yes, and 9 out of 10 times town gets lynched no matter how much talk there is. I want more wagons, hell wagon me. I don't care cause at least that's summin to talk about. Seeing how there is already a vote on Shannon and you think I am bffs with her cause I liked her play so far instead of Kryleas harsh tactics let's go that way. I've been trying to hold back due to not wanting to pretend I'm an expert at this game seeing how game play is too different but ya know what this game is going nowhere like this so might as well play how I'm used to. If someone gets lynched soon so be it.

VOTE: shannon

Holy shit that is one scummy fuckin post. The blatant ADMITTED distancing, openly admitting to wagoning someone just to get someone lynched at random....scum.

I voted to show no connection yes but that's only a small portion. You also already had two votes and I'm not concerned if you get lynched. Saying YOU aren't concerned isn't a helping factor for you. And please tell me why if I was with screenplay would we be so blatantly obvious about it?

...shannon already has two votes and you "aren't concerned if she gets lynched"? Uh...why? Unless you are so suspicious of shannon that you are sure she is scum, you damn well better be concerned about the possibility of lynching town....unless you're scum that is. And you have given no reason for the shannon suspicion except blatant opportunism. Either shannon is town and you are just trying to deflect pressure onto her, or (more likely) you two really are scumbuddies and this is just really obvious distancing.

Yeah, mobile is tough, I hate using it and it always eats all my quotes when I hit Q+

**

OK, if you've got another reason for voting me other than showing we're not connected (which would look like bussing, if anyone didn't believe you), can you explain what it is?

Below is your post - - I've bolded anything that looks like a reason, but all the reasons you give are just to distance from me or to generally get the game going. It's also really suspicious to vote me when you say you 'liked my play instead of Kryleas harsh tactics'. That's why I feel no stress at being wagoned, because I think by voting me you've actually exposed yourself.

This is a very good attempt at bussing, but not so good that I want to let you slide. Let's lynch mooney for being obvscum then get shannon tomorrow.

VOTE: mlmooney

[mlmooney89]

Because I feel like we are getting no where and something has to be done. A wagon is needed, a real wagon. This whole two weeks thing is a bit much. If this is how it always is this might be my only game. I'm hoping out side of newbie games things pick up. Sitting around talking does nothing for me so I wagon people. You had two votes on you already so I made a wagon. You seem to be replying pretty level headed so I might have my answer. I already got my answer from Toto, he was playing anti town but I think he might just have that play style. His reaction made me put him in the town pile. I will tunnel people one at a time but it only works if people are on the wagon with me. Wagons aren't forming by themselves so I have to go with what I have.

[mlmooney89]

Krylea you are really starting to piss me off. You act like your play style is the only way to play this game. Just because the way I play doesn't fit into your pretty little box doesn't mean a thing. I will admit all day long to waggoning random people on day one. I've seen the proactive move work. You bitch about voting and when I do you bitch why I voted. Day one doesn't yield deaths to scum, it's a proven ratio. Therefore town is going to die. The way town comes away with any info is on the wagon. You analyze the wagon and yes I know a few tactics on how to analyze it but im sure as hell not giving scum that info until after the flip. What is the point of sitting here for two weeks arguing?

[shannon]

Krylea you are really starting to piss me off. You act like your play style is the only way to play this game. Just because the way I play doesn't fit into your pretty little box doesn't mean a thing. I will admit all day long to waggoning random people on day one. I've seen the proactive move work. You bitch about voting and when I do you bitch why I voted. Day one doesn't yield deaths to scum, it's a proven ratio. Therefore town is going to die. The way town comes away with any info is on the wagon. You analyze the wagon and yes I know a few tactics on how to analyze it but im sure as hell not giving scum that info until after the flip. What is the point of sitting here for two weeks arguing?

What do you mean by saying you've seen random wagons 'work'? Work how, if not in exposing scum? You say later that 'day one doesn't yield deaths to scum' ((by the way this is false, I can show you other games once this one is down)), so what 'work' exactly do random wagons do?

Let's take you as an example: You're admitting to joining wagons for no reason other than to 'give pressure'. Not based on your reads, just for pressure. How does this give anyone a reason to town read you? And how would you possibly scum read someone else for joining a wagon? Let's say Titus jumps on mine, and then Toto hammers. How can you possibly call them out for it, when you've encouraged random wagon hopping and said that D1 always lynches town? Also, why are *you* town for randomly joining wagons, whereas you suggested in an earlier post that I might be scum for joining Toto's wagon because it was 'convenient'.

Your voting is being bitched about because it's nonsensical. You can't say in a post that you like my reasoning, and then vote me just to get the game going, and pretend that's towny. Voting someone you town read is 100% a scummy thing to do. It's up there with *not* voting someone you scum read.

I hope all that makes sense, I got a bit annoyed while writing it so it may not. TL;DR: You're a hypocrite.

VOTE: MOONEY

[mlmooney89]

Alright it must be because y'all don't have experience. I am not doing anything out of the ordinary but apparently to y'all that makes me scum. I didn't say it always leads to town death. I said the ratio was proven. With the majority of us town statistically the chances of us hitting one of the few scum is small. Random wagons work because; if you target everyone at least once no one flies under the radar, you can see who is hesitant to get on others wagons, you can see where they get on the wagon (Which is very important) and you can see who jumps on in follow me fashion. All of these are helpful to town. Just voting scum reads doesn't scare anyone into acting out it just gets everyone frazzled. Day one is usually only good for wagon reads, no real personal reads are going to be legit at this point. We don't know each other well enough. If in later games we get to know one another's play styles sure day one is more helpful. I had one player that always became extremely defensive when waggoned as town but played it cool when she was scum. We caught on and were able to tell which she was. She finally stopped doing that so it doesn't work anymore but it did for awhile. We don't have that advantage playing with strangers so we have nothing to really read until the wagons hit.

Um when have I ever said anything negative about you and the Toto wagon? I was seeing you as pretty much town this whole game. I waggoned you because, and I will say it again, you already had two votes and wagons hafta start somewhere. My play is logical, just because you don't understand it doesn't change it.

I apologize if I'm getting irritated but being called scum for using pretty well known mafia tactics is extremely frustrating. I made a bad call getting into a newbie game and that's not yalls fault. This is supposed to be intro mafia not normal tactics. Me trying to explain them when not everyone even has the game down is me being difficult it seems and while I am providing you with helpful info in later games it's just confusing y'all now. I don't apologize for my style of scum hunting only that I got frustrated.

[shannon]

You are also being incredibly patronising. Replace out if you feel you can't be part of a newbie game.

[shannon]

More substantively - here's what I think is wrong with the approach you're following.

" I am not doing anything out of the ordinary" - you have admitted to not playing on this site, so how do you know your play is not out of the ordinary?

"Random wagons work because; if you target everyone at least once no one flies under the radar, you can see who is hesitant to get on others wagons, you can see where they get on the wagon (Which is very important) and you can see who jumps on in follow me fashion."

By telling us that you start and join wagons at random, have you not removed any advantage of doing it though? Who's to say that I don't now flip a coin to see whether Ishould be on the wagon, and then roll dice to show in what place? How would you get a read on me based on that? Can I not circumvent your analysis by announcing that I'll always join a wagon once it's at two votes, and I'll hammer whichever wagon is at L-1 by the end of the day? Your system is a bit broken.

Further: By randomly wagoning, you're creating a possibility for scum to hammer people without notice. Potentially useful people, like our PRs.


"Just voting scum reads doesn't scare anyone into acting out it just gets everyone frazzled. Day one is usually only good for wagon reads, no real personal reads are going to be legit at this point. We don't know each other well enough. If in later games we get to know one another's play styles sure day one is more helpful."

Voting scum reads can actually scare people. People do funny things under pressure, even on D1. I would ask you not to assume that people are getting 'frazzled'. What would 'frazzled' look like, and why is it a bad thing?

And I disagree about personal reads. Leaving personality and play style aside, you can get a feel for whether people are being inconsistent or irrational. Examples of this are what I pointed out to you, i.e. voting your town read as you have done on me. That, on this site, is considered inconsistent and scummy.

Also, some of us already do know each other a bit. And we can always check each others' post history to find out more. So it's not as blank a slate as you think it is.

[shannon]

Anyhow, let's let some others weigh in

[mlmooney89]

And give up? I don't think so. I apologized and I meant it but I still will finish the game. I was just frustrated that y'all pegged me for scum simply cause I wasn't following the line. But oh well I accept that and I will refocus.

After tunnelling Toto and shannon I feel pretty good they are town. Krylea is pretty hardcore so despite our differences I see town. Now let's see who has other votes on them... Arrow, screenplay, and Titus. Hmmm

[mlmooney89]

" I am not doing anything out of the ordinary" - you have admitted to not playing on this site, so how do you know your play is not out of the ordinary?

Because the basic game play tactics remain the same. The differences are bastard vs regular, who knows what, when scum can talk... Tweaks to the rules but the point is always the same.

By telling us that you start and join wagons at random, have you not removed any advantage of doing it though? Who's to say that I don't now flip a coin to see whether Ishould be on the wagon, and then roll dice to show in what place? How would you get a read on me based on that? Can I not circumvent your analysis by announcing that I'll always join a wagon once it's at two votes, and I'll hammer whichever wagon is at L-1 by the end of the day? Your system is a bit broken.

My system is not broken it is used all the time and wins for town. No I don't think it removes the advantage of the wagon by saying it's random because this is literally just a day one tactic. You wouldn't use this come the next day phase. Scum know who the town are so they know who they should be careful around and who to target, a random doesn't change that. Announcing when you join a wagon is not what I'm trying to accomplish, if someone who knows this tactic wouldn't do that as a blanket rule. What we are trying to do is scare people into thinking they will get lynched. Yes they know it's just a tactic but the fact that scum could move the balance is still there so the fear is still there. People have been known to act different under the pressure of a wagon which is why we do it. Just one or two votes against them does nothing which is why I was against everyone voting Willy nilly.

Voting scum reads can actually scare people. People do funny things under pressure, even on D1. I would ask you not to assume that people are getting 'frazzled'. What would 'frazzled' look like, and why is it a bad thing?

Why would one vote scare anyone? And yeah they do act out on day one but take Toto for instance. I was sure at first he was scum but after almost getting lynched I decided his reaction was town. Frazzled is when everyone is at everyone with no leads to follow. Chaos that takes forever with no results. It's bad because it's a waste.

And I disagree about personal reads. Leaving personality and play style aside, you can get a feel for whether people are being inconsistent or irrational. Examples of this are what I pointed out to you, i.e. voting your town read as you have done on me. That, on this site, is considered inconsistent and scummy.

I don't think it's this site I think it's the newbie games. No one wants to delve too deep while trying to teach the game. I'm not replying anymore to tunnel you this is just me explaining.

Also, some of us already do know each other a bit. And we can always check each others' post history to find out more. So it's not as blank a slate as you think it is.

Are we going back through the games and analyzing their style? I won't be for three reasons. That's a lot of work, if they are playing here they probably don't have a style yet worth looking into, things are learned each game and styles change so you might find an old style and could hurt town. For a few games I was holding grudges against people from last games and it was hindering things cause rolling scum is just a roll of the dice.

[Arrowscum]

I'm sorry for being inactive. I was on a vacation (weekend).

Anyways, this game is confusing at this point. Partially because I don't remember your names, lol.


I'm a little concerned about krylea. She's (or he? Idk) trying to lead the town but with little success. Most of her posts are metagaming and fluff. The logic behind her posts is twisted and her intentions shout scum to me.
VOTE: UNVOTE: Srceenplay
VOTE: VOTE: krylea

[Srceenplay]

I'm sorry for being inactive. I was on a vacation (weekend).

Anyways, this game is confusing at this point. Partially because I don't remember your names, lol.


I'm a little concerned about krylea. She's (or he? Idk) trying to lead the town but with little success. Most of her posts are metagaming and fluff. The logic behind her posts is twisted and her intentions shout scum to me.
VOTE: UNVOTE: Srceenplay
VOTE: VOTE: krylea

Hi arrow. Hope you can post more now. Where did you go on vacation to?

You do know if you scroll all the way down to the end of all the posts, you can click on the tab to read each individual persons posts?

If you don't plan on being around for a long while maybe post it on hear so the mod and the rest of us know. Thanks.

[krylea]

I'm sorry for being inactive. I was on a vacation (weekend).

Anyways, this game is confusing at this point. Partially because I don't remember your names, lol.


I'm a little concerned about krylea. She's (or he? Idk) trying to lead the town but with little success. Most of her posts are metagaming and fluff. The logic behind her posts is twisted and her intentions shout scum to me.
VOTE: UNVOTE: Srceenplay
VOTE: VOTE: krylea

Sooo... you have nothing to say about the current discussion vis a vis mooney and shannon and nothing to say about Toto's wagon?