Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[Nahdia]

Almost is town.
VOTE: Maxous

you're voting the guy a weak visitor visited?

Translation:

I have all the time in the world.
Do you?

[Nahdia]

It's kind of unclear what that means. Want me to try jailkeeping his dead body and see if anyone who dies becomes a treestump instead?

[Nahdia]

VOTE: Shiro

[Nahdia]

Also, did anyone object to their flavor claim? I don't think so and I'm not sure if I'd consider Asriel to be an evil role or a good role. Not Chara, your Undertale expertise is needed!

I have Undertale expertise as well;

Asriel could go either way. Asgore being town is an indication that Asriel likely is as well. Arguably the only true villain in Undertale is the player themselves. I don't think flavor analysis is going to do us much good until at the very least we see one scum role so we have a general idea what we're up against.

[Nahdia]

Actually uh

[Nahdia]

Hey Nahdia, have you revealed who you have jailed?

zakk (I failed, obviously)
massive
No one

[Nahdia]

Hey Nahdia, have you revealed who you have jailed?

zakk (I failed, obviously)

What do you mean?

I mean take a moment to look who died that night.

[Nahdia]

To everyone else: either you think Narna is scum, or you think both Shiro and I are scum.

There is

zero

room for error in this.

Not true.

If Narna asked "what result would I get if I targeted someone who was a miller, as in the traditional normal miller role", they'd get the answer they got. Skull isn't going to tell Narna the specifics of

your

role.

[Nahdia]

I hesitate to bring up this point because 1) Rolefishing and 2) Bastard game but the presence of MULTIPLE global millers would suggest we've got investigative roles which allude towards alignment. But it's day 4 and it's not like anyone besides Narna has come forward with any kind of results that would be affected by millers. Unless I'm forgetting something?

[Nahdia]

Honestly, if it weren't for the Gester wingdings crap we've been getting, I'd be seriously considering the possibility that there's no scumteam. It'd fit the Undertale flavor perfectly.

[Nahdia]

inb4 the only way to win is to declare a draw and thus stop senselessly murdering each other.

[Nahdia]

im having fun.

[Nahdia]

hOI

[Nahdia]

mASSIVE town!!!!!!!!!!!! yaYAya!!

[Nahdia]

mASSIVE town!!!!!!!!!!!! yaYAya!!

???

massive is town.

[Nahdia]

Also I was roleblocked last night

wasn't me!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nahdia]

but i roleblocked maxous......

[Nahdia]

but narna's right, I can't kill :T

[Nahdia]

how many more friends have to die...

Narna, I want to believe you. I really do. Everything makes sense for your role to be town except for the guilty you presented on Shiro.
What happened? Why did you tell everyone about this "guilty"? What went wrong?

Because I had a guilty on him. As for what went wrong, he flipped town.

So... either there was a mod error, Shiro received some... entity, that allowed him to kill and he didn't mention it, or you're lying.

they were a miller, ditz.

[Nahdia]

a universal miller, that is.

[Nahdia]

a universal miller, that is.

[Nahdia]

SINCE WHEN?

[Nahdia]

THEY SAID THAT?

BOY MAYBE I SHOULDA ACTUALLY READ THIS GAME...

[Nahdia]

More importantly, I targeted Narna last night and got an investigative action result. Also, I am not dead.

guys the weak thing did the thing why are we voting narna

[Nahdia]

Big news from the mod god. I just needed to word my question a little better. A miller would not return as having the ability to kill if they lacked that ability.

Vote: Shiro

Ank what did you ask Skullduggery when inquiring about your miller status?

They asked about a miller. Not a universal miller.

[Nahdia]

THEY SAID THAT?

BOY MAYBE I SHOULDA ACTUALLY READ THIS GAME...

you make me want to replace out of the game
and narna's not even dead yet

no no i was right they never said that it turns out i did read the game.

[Nahdia]

why are so many people down to vote an inno

[Nahdia]

giovanni said they got an investigative result = not driven

VOTE: W. D. Gaster
please

[Nahdia]

Spoiler:

are you really feeling the effects of this game when you replaced Snarky? are you just jumping on the apathy bandwagon?

[Nahdia]

didn't mean to quote that meant to quote

giovanni said they got an investigative result = not driven

[Nahdia]

GUYS HAS THERE BEEN A CREEPY HIDDEN GASTER IN THE OP IMAGE THIS WHOLE TIME??

[Nahdia]

IM WIGGIN' OUT GUYS

[Nahdia]

THAT'S HORRIFYING.

[Nahdia]

i swear that wasn't there before

[Nahdia]

THAT'S HORRIFYING.

I don't see it

do u see it now

ank whwat even

[Nahdia]

he's legit calling over half the player list scum

and you're giving it a seal of approval

what the fuck

[Nahdia]

this isn't multiball guys. there's been one death a night, consistently.

[Nahdia]

unless it's like, two teams and one has odd night kills and one has even night kills or something. that's the only way this could be multi.

[Nahdia]

did i miss something? where's "5 mafia" come from?

[Nahdia]

sigh.

i realize people are just apathy wagoning narna at this point but I'm not convinced the inno is fake/messed with. just call me Hayley Williams because I refuse I refuse I refuse I refuuusseeee

[Nahdia]

Giovanni, can you clarify exactly how your weak mechanic works? Does it say you'll die if you visit anyone who is [mafia/scum/not-town]?

[Nahdia]

Nahdia is next regardless of Narna's lynch.

haha god wow this post. you're either mafia or legit the worst player i've ever come across. and im honestly not sure which.

[Nahdia]

I'm thinking, based on the specific wording of Giovanni's ability, we might have a possibility. If his ability only registers on players who are "mafia", what if the mafia faction is called something else? Titus had a useless role, so it's not exactly a crazy notion.

who is hayley williams?

the singer for Paramore.

[Nahdia]

I'm thinking, based on the specific wording of Giovanni's ability, we might have a possibility. If his ability only registers on players who are "mafia", what if the mafia faction is called something else? Titus had a useless role, so it's not exactly a crazy notion.

who is hayley williams?

the singer for Paramore.

Why give someone a modifier like weak if it doesn't do anything?

1) This is a bastard game.
2) Titus was a vanilla cop and this is role madness.

[Nahdia]

Nahdia's response to my scumlist is one of the scummiest things in the entire thread.

Yeah, step off chump. You don't get to call over 50% of the remaining players at least "likely" scum and then retaliate when someone calls you the fuck out for it. I'm not calling you scum, I'm telling you to get your damn head in the game.

[Nahdia]

I will die if I target anyone not-town aligned.

fuck. well there goes that possibility.

you just shot our inno. good going.

[Nahdia]

well if narna flips town we know scum have a framer.
doubt it though.

What about a bus driver?

How many times do I have to remind you that Giovanni got an investigative result on Narna as well, confirming his visit?

[Nahdia]

well if narna flips town we know scum have a framer.
doubt it though.

What about a bus driver?

How many times do I have to remind you that Giovanni got an investigative result on Narna as well, confirming his visit?

Who said they were the ones switched? What if Shiro was switched with a mafioso when Narna investigated her?

Narna gets an investigative result confirming their visit as well

[Nahdia]

But you wouldn't be affected if the target was only Shiro and a mafioso on the night Narna investigated Shiro. Narna still investigates the new target.

We're not talking about Giovanni we're talking about Shiro.

Narna's check on Shiro can't have been driven because they investigate and get a name as well.

[Nahdia]

asfdsgish
i got woken up by a fking gaster nightmare cause i was thinking about this game right before sleeping god dammit gaster is so creepy

[Nahdia]

Maxous who did you roleblock?

[Nahdia]

Creature, any chance you can confirm if the block on you was successful?

[Nahdia]

I don't want the game abandoned, I'm just seriously reaching the point where I'm not convinced anyone is scum. Just friends and corpses.

[Nahdia]

But who is triggering the Gaster (wingding) abilities? They seem to be anti-town. The presence of the creepy hidden Gaster in the OP image also kind of makes me think Gaster is scum. And we HAVE had deaths every night, including one night where I was jailing the target. So it SEEMS like there's a scumteam but... uhg, I don't know. I'm trying to figure out where the bastard element of this game comes in.

[Nahdia]

I jailed zakk the night he died.

[Nahdia]

I mentioned it as soon as it happened....

[Nahdia]

VOTE: Andrius

[Nahdia]

Nahdia pours you a cup of disapproving spiders.

[Nahdia]

Nahdia isn't surviving to the dawn of tomorrow.

What, you don't like spiders? ::::(

[Nahdia]

Spoiler: Brief Game Summary

Day 1

Various wagons are tested, Magna is eventually lynched.


Also during this day, the deadline was mysteriously extended by over 100 years after 516 occurred. Wingdings have become a common theme during the game and I’ll discuss them in more detail in the scum team speculation section.

Day 2

Narna and McMenno become competing counterwagons, ending with McMenno being lynched. From 4009 onward, ALL mod communication in thread becomes wingdings. Since McMenno’s flip is obscured by this, I’ll post the translation here:
McMenno was sans, town lazy coroner.
nighttime abilities: during the night phase, you may select any dead player in the game to learn who targeted that player with a killing action on the night that they died. if this player was targeted by more than one killing action, you will learn the identities of all of that player's killers. you may only use this ability starting on night 7.
(yes, it was all in lower case)

Day 3

Because McMenno flipped town, Narna is quickly wagoned. However, Leonshade uses his governor ability to save them. Leonshade is eventually lynched for this.

Day 4

Narna’s psychologist role (which detects if a player has or has ever had access to a kill) gets a “guilty” on Shiro, who denies ever having access to a kill. He is however a miller, which he claimed day 1. Narna asks in private Skullduggery if millers would show as “guilty” on her check and is told they will not. However, Shiro amends his miller claim to global miller, which returns all investigative results as if he were a scum-aligned player. Ankamius (also a miller) backs this up saying his role functions similarly.


As of 5802, the deadline this day was suddenly slashed by a roughly a week.

Spoiler: All Claims

I’m including in this softs, since I doubt much has escaped a full scumteam’s notice.


Worth noting that investigative roles receive full reports including the target’s name, which means speculation as to possible busdrivers is faulty. Titus (dead town) confirms this in 3633. Giovanni and Narna have both confirmed this as well.

SirCakez:

No claim. However his role has been made public in a neighborhood which I believe consists currently of Firebringer, Andrius, and Creature (?) as Shiro was in it previously and had rolecopped him. This is stated in 6187. He did as of 6213 state he was roleblocked, indicating his role is one which gets some sort of feedback.

Giovanni il Pellegrino:

Weak unclaimed investigative role. First claimed weak in 4483 (Day 3), first claimed investigative in 4541, as of 6162 he confirms his role receives feedback. He confirms in 6322 that his weak modifier triggers any time he targets anyone who is not town. In 4539 he also states his role is even-night only. He claims to have targeted Maxous night 2 and Narna night 4.

Maxous:

Roleblocker. Claimed 3625 (Day 2) Claims to have roleblocked Shiro night 1, which is confirmed by earlier Shiro in 3541. Night 2 and 3 actions not claimed (??). Night 4 block was Creature, claimed in 6361.

Creature:

No claim to my knowledge.

PeregrineV:

No claim to my knowledge.

Nahdia:

Jailkeeper. First claimed 2136 (you can find a working link for the audio in 4104, though I should mentioned Skullduggery asked that no one else do this). My role allows other people to target my target, just not kill them. I targeted zakk night 1, massive night 2, no one night 3, and Maxous night 4. Obviously I was either roleblocked night 1 or there was a strongkill, since zakk died. Claimed my night 1 action in 3430, night 2 action in 4353 (should note i was wrong about my role mechanics in that post), night 3 action in 5964, night 4 action on 6216. Flavor claimed (well, heavily softed but by writing it here I confirm it) Muffet.

Firebringer:

Neighborizer. I don’t know the order of the targets, but it seems to have at certain points contained himself, Andrius, Creature, Titus, and Shiro. Not 100% where this was claimed. Andrius mentions Titus was a neighbor in 6165 and refers again to a hood in 6184.

Not Chara:

No claim to my knowledge.

Ankamius:

In 126, Ankamius states that he has a miller state, a hated state, and benefits from hammering. In 5976, he clarifies that his miller state returns guilties on all investigatives.

BigYoshiFan:

No claim to my knowledge.

Narna:

Psychologist; claims to be told whether a player has or has ever had the ability to kill each night. First claims this in 4238 (I feel like it was earlier but can’t find anything?). Also in that post claims to have checked massive night 2, they cannot kill.. In 4246 Narna claims to have missed the deadline for submitting an action on Night 1. They got a “guilty” on Shiro on Night 3, as of post 5676. Claimed to have gotten a “cannot kill” on myself in 6164. Flavor claimed Gerson.

Almost50:

Heavily softed supersaint with flavor “Annoying Dog”. Supersaint softs include 940 and 947 (Gamma Emerald is the spot’s predecessor). I make a nod at Almost50’s role in 4950 and Almost50 acknowledges I know his role in 4957 and totally confirms it in 5116. Flavor soft of Annoying Dog is in posts 6124 and 6125.

Andrius:

...I’m not sure, really. Andrius flavor claims Frisk all over the place. Makes allusion to possible pacifist and genocide routes in 3135 and 4057 and a bunch of other places but I’m not sure what they mean. In 5922 he claims Titus knew his role, perhaps it’s stated in the neighborhood? In 6165 he says Titus knows his “secret”.

massive:

Softed fruit vendor in 4219. I know his flavor, but I’ll let him decide if he wants it outed.

[Nahdia]

Guys, Giovanni (a weak role who is also an investigative who gets a report, thus eliminating possibility of bus drivers) has an innocent on Narna. If you're going to vote Narna, provide an explanation for how this isn't valid.

[Nahdia]

Mathblade I'll point out to you that Narna has a psychologist innocent result on me so thinking they're town and I'm scum requires a full explanation for that as well. I'm done with this town ignoring results.

[Nahdia]

Given the state of this game, the idea that Giovanni would try to stick his neck out to save Narna when so many people have been chanting for their blood again and again and again and again and again while Giovanni has been generally accepted as town is ludicrous.

The second post I can totally accept though. I've considered the possibility that maybe only one member of the scumteam has access to their nightkill or something to that effect, in order to purposefully dilute Narna's role.

[Nahdia]

I don't like how Narna was wagoned then pressure fell off her after she claimed

Super brief Narna summary:

Day 1: Wagoned, but not lynched.
Day 2: Wagoned along side McMenno, McMenno wagon wins out.
Day 3: Turbolynched, but then governed. The governor is then lynched.
Day 4: Guilties Shiro; Shiro is lynched.

[Nahdia]

secret condition

Well this at least is probably not true considering Skull said in the rules that our roles function as we're told. It's possible there's some weird weak-godfathers or reflexive doctors or something on the scumteam but eh.

---

Anyway, now that I've finished laying out some of the mechs of the gamestate, here are my actual thoughts on alignment. Not as organized as my usual readslists but whatevs.

Town: Giovanni, Maxous, Mathblade, Accountant, Narna, Massive
Townlean: SirCakez, Almost50, Ankamius

Frisk: Pine

that leaves PeregrineV, Not Chara, and BigYoshiFan. I'd like a lynch in those three, at this point.

UNVOTE:
(i think i was voting Pine out of frustrating with their slot's behavior)

[Nahdia]

I was between you and Titus :\

[Nahdia]

Anyway, worth noting outside those walls of text that this does mean there's an unaccounted for roleblocker, since SirCakez claimed roleblocked last night and my jail failed to save zakk night 1. Alternatively, it's possible SirCakez' target was ascetic and the night 1 kill was a strongkill.

If there's a scum roleblocker, I put forward why would a role like Narna's that

appears

to be powerful not be roleblocked? The possible explanations I can think of off the top ofmy head are either that Narna is scum, or that as I stated earlier, Narna's role is actually largely useless due to certain mechanics we're unaware of. Could also just be they expect us to not trust Narna, or that their roleblocker has some restriction.

Also worth pointing out, as I believe Narna already did, that SirCakez was roleblocked immediately after his role was made public in Accountant's (?) neighborhood. The people in that hood currently are Accountant, Pine, and Mathblade. There's also the possibility that scum are capable of "spying" on the hood, ie having access without the members knowing. To the people in the neighborhood, I would be careful what you say there going forward.

[Nahdia]

If A50 is only a supersaint I'm definitely okay lynching him.

Useless role + probable scum = good lynch

I'd sort of agree but Ankamius has insisted on hammering which I don't necessarily want to prevent them to do but... if we were to lynch Almost50, I'd want someone I really distrust like BigYoshiFan to be forced to hammer.

[Nahdia]

Here's the confirmations so far:

Giovanni's Weak Role Confirmations

:

Maxous
Narna

Narna's Psychologist Confirmations

:

massive
Nahdia

N1 - Shiro
N2 - Nahdia
N3 - Not Chara
N4 - Creature.

For disclosure

i wasn't blocked on night 3.

Then Maxous was blocked Night 3. There's another unaccounted for block.

Why block the town roleblocker? Unless you're scared they're going to be blocking the person making your kill.

[Nahdia]

/replace in

Okay, I am NOT reading 260 pages of drivel. Ain't happening. New perspectives are better than just reinterpreting old data anyway, so you all start with a generally fresh slate with me. I'll read the last five or ten pages, the first five or ten pages, and selections that prove relevant, like final VCAs from each day. Plus I'll read my predecssor's ISO, as I can actually trust their motives.

So, what should I know?

Read the previous page, I provided a lot of summary/claim information as well as current speculation as to what's going on.

[Nahdia]

Yes, we have.

[Nahdia]

Did he claim follower? I missed that if he did. I just know he claimed investigative.

[Nahdia]

Somehow I glanced right over that, thanks.

[Nahdia]

Nahdia, were you the one who said a massclaim wouldn't help us?

No.

another question: where did Firebringer claim neighbourizer where Nahdia could see? i don't remember that claim.

If you want to subtly sling mud at me you're gonna have to try a lot harder than that.

This is me confirming that Firebringer is a Neighborizer.
I crumbed being neighborized a few times.
The N1 target did as well.

Shiro was last night's addition and a certain Baker was not trilled with the addition.

[Nahdia]

Couldn't find that quote earlier.

Creature was the Night 1, then Andrius, then Shiro... and somewhere, somehow, Titus is involved. I dunno, Andrius said Titus was a neighbor and they clearly had some way of communicating.

[Nahdia]

I may have been wrong on Creature being in the hood. Not sure exactly where I got that information, I thought it was Andrius' ISO but looking again I don't see it. That would explain Titus being in the hood, so I'm probably just incorrect. Sorry for the confusion there.

[Nahdia]

You don't understand what I'm saying? How delightful.

Skullduggery: i believe the bolded parts are errors in the posted votecount.

Translation:

There are no errors in post 4010.

UNVOTE:

Let's all slow down. Not Chara, did you rush that VC translation or are you sure it's completely correct?

Translation:

Shiro has been prodded.

4184 explains Menno's role, 4185 is the deadline and also notifying that Mafiascum might go down sometime soon due to server migration. 4186 is a deadline extension because photobucket crashed and all the wingdings were missing for awhile.

VOTE: Narna

Almost is town.
VOTE: Maxous

you're voting the guy a weak visitor visited?

Translation:

I have all the time in the world.
Do you?

McMenno’s flip is obscured by this, I’ll post the translation here:
McMenno was sans, town lazy coroner.
nighttime abilities: during the night phase, you may select any dead player in the game to learn who targeted that player with a killing action on the night that they died. if this player was targeted by more than one killing action, you will learn the identities of all of that player's killers. you may only use this ability starting on night 7.
(yes, it was all in lower case)

[Nahdia]

I may have been wrong on Creature being in the hood. Not sure exactly where I got that information, I thought it was Andrius' ISO but looking again I don't see it. That would explain Titus being in the hood, so I'm probably just incorrect. Sorry for the confusion there.

No I think you are fishing for who is making everyone in that hood probably town.

I have no idea what you mean by this. I'm setting you up to be townread because... we're scum together?

[Nahdia]

I didn't post translations of the VC. Not Chara did post one translation of the first wingding'd VC in 4010 but made some errors in translation, I checked its work and pointed out the mistakes (hadn't realized it had already pointed out those errors on its own >_>). That conversation begins in 4089.

I may have been wrong on Creature being in the hood. Not sure exactly where I got that information, I thought it was Andrius' ISO but looking again I don't see it. That would explain Titus being in the hood, so I'm probably just incorrect. Sorry for the confusion there.

No I think you are fishing for who is making everyone in that hood probably town.

I have no idea what you mean by this. I'm setting you up to be townread because... we're scum together?

No. You are not setting me up for anything as I am town.

However you want to know who is in the hood likely because I believe there is no scum in it. By asking if I was in it twice you could ascertain things about it.

OK, I see your point. From the people I know are in the hood, I do think it's likely all town. However I also am strongly considering the possibility scum have a pair of eyes in the hood, considering SirCakez was blocked after his role was revealed in said hood.

[Nahdia]

And when I say pair of eyes in the hood I don't necessarily mean one of the members they know of is scum. I mean they might have a spy.

[Nahdia]

There is no town benefit to hood hunting.

This is useless. Hunt scum not info.

I'm just making sure everyone is caught up with all the information that's been put forward. I'm not going to tolerate having to hand hold 13 players 1 by 1 as they figure out everything that happens one post at a time. Scum has this information. It's been posted in the thread before.

[Nahdia]

I'm definitely not ruling SirCakez scum out, I was pushing that day 1, but there are some unexplained roleblocks that have been passed around and he's the latest victim.

I can tell I need to drag myself out of the information game and get back to actual scumhunting. I'm gonna take a bit to step back and breath.

[Nahdia]

Do you want me to start blocking claimed investigative who can verify my action, therefore depriving us of their information? Because I've been

avoiding

doing so.

[Nahdia]

...I'm familiar with the room, yes. I'm not sure what your point is. It's a really really minor part of the game, not something I would use as a heavy thematic influence if I were designing a setup around Undertale. And although this game is bastard, we've been told our roles function as intended.

If you need Undertale trivia, I can help. If you need it from someone who isn't me for whatever reason, ask Not Chara.

[Nahdia]

Well, I didn't claim to have been blocked. I blocked massive, who claimed his action went through.

[Nahdia]

It's possible except that the investigators are saying they receive their target's names in their results. That'd be an outright lie from the mod (which Skull said wouldn't happen) if they were actually redirected. So it can't be happening to them, at the very least.

[Nahdia]

It's possible except that the investigators are saying they receive their target's names in their results. That'd be an outright lie from the mod (which Skull said wouldn't happen) if they were actually redirected. So it can't be happening to them, at the very least.

Are you getting the name?

No. I'm not an investigator. So yes, I could have been redirected every night. It would at the very least explain zakk dying.

[Nahdia]

Oh christ.

I'm getting redirected every night aren't I.

[Nahdia]

Fucking hell I claimed day 1. They could've been using me as their own roleblocker every night if they have a redirector.

[Nahdia]

But Maxous' action on Night 3 failed and I didn't target anyone, I shouldn't have been able to be redirected that night. That would still need an explanation.

This is all wild speculation. I need scumhunting dammit.

[Nahdia]

I get told the name of who I investigated in my report. Titus was like that as well.

[Nahdia]

I don't think we should massclaim. We should just scumhunt.

[Nahdia]

I just got confirmation from Skull that Shiro was a standard miller, as can be read on the wiki. My speculation of him being a variant "global miller" is wrong. Shiro,

as a miller

, somehow got the attention of a scum framer, or Narna lied. Someone please tell me if there's some other possibility I'm not seeing. No, it can't have been redirected, we've been over that.

[Nahdia]

A scum framer that makes their target appear even worse than what a normal miller already appears as, apparently.

Narna I want to know exactly how your role functions. I know you've said it before. Say it again.

[Nahdia]

Also Cakes, we know part of your role.
Shiro told us before his death.

This is day 4.

[Nahdia]

Or, would have taken place on day 4 that is.

[Nahdia]

Almost50, can you elaborate on your PeregrineV read?

[Nahdia]

I'm going to start scumhunting. I'm writing down thoughts as they come to me.

I think Ankamius is town from the way they behaved around the Shiro guilty. The way they came out in Shiro's defense about the specifics of their miller role felt esp genuine to me.

I agree with Mathblade's (?) assessment on Pine's slot for now; Andrius and now Pine are likely SK if scum, not groupscum. The way they've been adamant about hunting group scum and their attitude in general has been really hard to fake. I doubt it's fake. If they somehow are an SK, we're looking at some sort of trading back and forth of nightkills odd & even nights or something like that. Not willing to run that slot up for now.

I went back and forth on Creature but I did end on thinking they're town, and I've liked Mathblade so far. Happy with that slot.

Almost50's paranoia of me in particular as well as their active role in parsing information has been towny to me, even if you want to debate about how useful any of this spec has been.

Not Chara... I don't know. I don't like how it has faded away from the center of attention as the game has gone on, despite not seeming to be affected by the prevailing mood of dwindling hope for this game. I also didn't like how it made two statements in a row that were basically shots at me then wouldn't own it when I called it out. If it had just said "Yeah, I'm turning the heat up on you" that would be fine, but instead it ducked. I did however see more town motivation than scum motivation in questioning why I'm apparently not doubting their claim that it wasn't roleblocked Night 3 (to answer that; I'm just working with the information I've been given and laying everything out. Considering the possibilities of lies everywhere is the next stage.)

PeregrineV, I need Almost50 to lay out the reasons to townread that slot. Because I want it dead. It wigged me out how their participation has been fairly meager but they noticed something I didn't (Giovanni's follower claim). Yes, it's perfectly possible PeregrineV just did in fact noticed that and remembered it, but my immediate thought was more "he's in a scum thread that's been organizing all their information internally, as I would be doing frantically in this situation". I don't like that he just jumps in to correct me but doesn't have anything else to say. In fact, looking at his ISO lately, it's been a lot of mechposting.

Ok uh, I know I said this is scumhunting and not info posting but I'm remembering this and I want to highlight it in case anyone missed it. This is information that needs to be highlighted.

1) Narna claims Shiro was guilty on their psychologist check but that millers would not appear guilty, according to Skullduggery. Shiro was a normal miller, and Narna can't have been driven.

2) Maxous claims they roleblocked me Night 2. The person I jailed (massive) claims they weren't blocked. However, Giovanni when following them got that either Maxous did nothing or his action didn't go through. This means either Maxous isn't cleared by Giovanni's check at all, or Maxous' action was obfuscated. My inclination is that Giovanni was roleblocked.

On Maxous... I dunno. I was townreading them a lot even before Giovanni "cleared" them. Also the fact that their roleblocker claim was verified early day 2, just doesn't feel like how scum would play it, especially considering there have been weird roleblocks going around that aren't explained.

P-Edit: Ooookay.... I guess whatever. I'll leave him alone for now.

[Nahdia]

This seems like an impossible situation. Narna can't have gotten that result on Shiro unless Shiro was targeted by a super framer. But Giovanni didn't die visiting Narna, and actually confirms they got a result on Narna.

I dunno. Maybe someone was doctoring Giovanni. Maybe Narna is a reflexive doctor, or a super godfather, or maybe Giovanni is scum with Narna. I really don't see Giovanni as a possibility for scum.

I'm worried. BigYoshiFan pulled "5 scum" out of his ass or something and now it's occurring to me if that's actually the case, this is our last mislynch. After that, it's possible mylo if nothing changes. We need to start getting this right, dammit.

Giovanni saw Narna using an investigative action. Narna does have some sort of investigative role, unless Giovanni is scum. That's worth noting, I think.
I'm seriously frying here. Feels like my brain is a god damn hamster wheel and the hamster just keeled over and died.

[Nahdia]

wait

that's why not chara wasn't blocked night 3

[Nahdia]

fucking fucking fuck

[Nahdia]

I didn't fucking target anyone night 3 and Maxous' block failed.

fuck

[Nahdia]

VOTE: Maxous

[Nahdia]

I don't think Not Chara is scum. If it were, why wouldn't they just confirm Maxous roleblocked them? This glaring connection-that the night I didn't submit an action and the night Maxous' block failed-wouldn't exist.

[Nahdia]

I want Maxous swinging from the god damn rafters immediately. I'm livid.

[Nahdia]

I don't agree. Not claiming roleblocked is a viable option if you don't want to out you have a role that gets feedback, and Not Chara is smart enough to realize it could excuse themselves.

[Nahdia]

I'm 100% down. This is locked in. Today you're voting Maxous or you're voting me, end of story.

[Nahdia]

It is also possible there is no framer and Narna derped and hit the miller and miller said I am a killer. I maybe didn't ask the question in the right way to eliminate this possibility. Nahdia what did you ask the mod? All they gave me was the wiki link which has a variant in which millers would look like killers.

@Nadhia please answer

I asked Skull if Shiro's miller ability is a standard mafiascum miller or not. Skull confirmed it was. Narna tells us that according to Skull, their role would not get a killer result on a miller.

[Nahdia]

Big news from the mod god. I just needed to word my question a little better. A miller would not return as having the ability to kill if they lacked that ability.

[Nahdia]

I proposed the miller might have worked in a way I had seen before which was "You would give the most unfavourable result to any and all investigative roles". Some refuted my proposition, somene said it was the case then they changed their mind and I gave up.

I checked this with Skull; it's not the case. It's a totally normal miller

[Nahdia]

I asked is Shiro's "miller" modifier a standard miller or did his miller modify his slot in ways a standard miller wouldn't.

Going to bed but just going to re-iterate that I strongly don't think Not Chara is scum with Maxous. If Not Chara was scum, it could have coordinated with Maxous to completely cover up the missing roleblock from my non-action. It could have claimed to have been blocked. Either
A) Maxous didn't notice/realize the ramifications of me not taking an action, and just claimed to block who he redirected me to. Or
B) Maxous claimed to roleblock Not Chara, knowing his redirect on me didn't work, hoping Not Chara wouldn't be able to confirm or deny this since it had made no indication their role is investigative.

Maxous could have claimed to have roleblocked one of his buddies and had them collaborate on it, but that risks confirming them as scum if he dies and we figure out he was using my role. Not Chara isn't scum with Maxous.

[Nahdia]

if we take Nahdia at thier word, they jailkept me which would of blocked all my actions so i couldn't of done jack-shit to cakez.

Unless your redirect took priority over my jailkeep.

[Nahdia]

I was only in that game for pre-game so you'll have to clarify what you mean~

[Nahdia]

I read the part where you had to start talking like a magical horse.

[Nahdia]

Excuse me?

[Nahdia]

If you think I scumclaimed, vote me.

[Nahdia]

So you ask. Go ahead. Ask skull about Shiro's role.

[Nahdia]

If you claim to have gotten a different answer than me, there'll be a confirmed scum in the two of us as well, which I more than invite. So please, Ank, go and ask Skullduggery about Shiro's role.

[Nahdia]

I think you are town.

But no, I'm not lying. Please, ask Skull.

[Nahdia]

Hell,

EVERYONE

privately message Skullduggery and ask them about Shiro's miller role. Please. We can put this to rest; this isn't something we have to speculate on.

[Nahdia]

@mod As he flipped, is Shiro's "miller" modifier a standard miller or did his miller modify his slot in ways a standard miller wouldn't? I only ask since all we're given is the role name. I'm hoping you can answer this publicly since it's a question anyone could conceivably ask and get a proper answer for.

Except for the last sentence, that's what I asked Skull privately.

[Nahdia]

Too elaborate on what Skull said to me.

If anyone has any role that cannot be fully explained by their standard mechanics on the wiki page, Skullduggery elaborates. We see examples of this in Nosferatu and SlySly's flip. Because Shiro's mechanics word exactly like standard iterations, as listed on the wiki page, there was no elaboration with his flip.

[Nahdia]

in which there's NO INDICATION that a Miller does NOT return a guilty to a Gunsmith.

But Narna claimed their role wouldn't return a guilty on a miller. A miller, from the wiki. A miller, which is what Shiro was.

[Nahdia]

@mod As he flipped, is Shiro's "miller" modifier a standard miller or did his miller modify his slot in ways a standard miller wouldn't? I only ask since all we're given is the role name. I'm hoping you can answer this publicly since it's a question anyone could conceivably ask and get a proper answer for.

The function of Shiro's Miller modifier can be found on the pertinent Wiki page. I will not elaborate any further than that.

THERE IT IS!

The wiki page says:

Some moderators take the "passive guilt" concept to the point where Millers also investigate unfavorably to other roles (i.e. Gunsmith). Alternatively, specialized Millers can be created specifically for investigative roles other than Cop.

And I -sure as hell- would call this something that "can be found on the pertinent wiki page" because I did find it right there!

So then you think Narna lied and is confirmed scum.

[Nahdia]

A50, you have to have Narna as confirmed scum in your eyes. Because yes, that

is

the only conclusion if you're going to take this path of reasoning. Unless you seriously think when Narna asked what their result targeting a miller would be, Skullduggery decided to answer Narna's question

using a different variation of miller than the one used in this game

.

[Nahdia]

Which is fucking ludicrous.

[Nahdia]

Ank, any chance you can ask Skull what the result would be if a psychologist (or Gunsmith or whatever) would be if they targeted you?

[Nahdia]

A50, you have to have Narna as confirmed scum in your eyes. Because yes, that

is

the only conclusion if you're going to take this path of reasoning. Unless you seriously think when Narna asked what their result targeting a miller would be, Skullduggery decided to answer Narna's question

using a different variation of miller than the one used in this game

.

The one IN THE GAME .. IS .. the one IN THE WIKI PAGE .. under VARIATIONS.

NARNA ASKED SKULLDUGGERY WHAT THEIR RESULT WOULD BE IF THEY TARGETED A MILLER.

[Nahdia]

A50. YOU'RE BEING DENSE. EXTREMELY FUCKING DENSE.

[Nahdia]

@Nahdia:

"A" Miller. As opposed to "THE" Miller version used as Shiro's modifier in this very game. "A" is a GENERAL question, and the answer is 100% correct. The standard Miller role does NOT return a guilty to a Gunsmith or a Psychologist.

You know what? When I finally start modding my own games (and I mean the games in which I create the setup, not use standard setups) I will be sure to invite you to them. You might find it interesting because I'm sure I won't be using "the wiki" as my sole reference. Instead, my own "touch" will be included in the ROLE PMS I send out.

so you actually think

that skullduggery

used a different version of miller when answering narna's question.

jesus fucking christ.

Narna, ask Skullduggery what your result would be if you targeted someone with Shiro's role, please.

[Nahdia]

Fucking hell. Parsing all this information is seriously so fucking frustrating.

VOTE: BigYoshiFan

[Nahdia]

If you'd been reading me you'd know?

[Nahdia]

You're on the short list, BYF.

[Nahdia]

Narna didnt submit night 1 and cleared me night 4.
I jailed Maxous night 4.

[Nahdia]

jesus christ can we please lynch BYF

[Nahdia]

Notably, I was wrong on the members of the neighborhood.

[Nahdia]

There's also been some other notable stuff.

Giovanni may have been roleblocked Night 2 (and it seems he was, actually), nullifying his check on Maxous. Not Chara may have been roleblocked Night 3 without realizing it.
Apparently, null results and roleblocked results are one in the same.

Maxous may not be a roleblocker at all, he might just be using my jailkeep to redirect and roleblock other people.

BigYoshiFan is v scummy and I want to lynch them.

[Nahdia]

fine whatever
VOTE: maxous

[Nahdia]

If Maxous doesn't flip scum I'm gonna... I don't even know, man.

[Nahdia]

Actual full translation

: Let us approach this quandary with a fresh new perspective.

Gaster reset the entire day. I'm not really discouraged.

VOTE: Maxous

[Nahdia]

Yes. Asgore tells you to Stay Determined whenever you die.

[Nahdia]

Why would he just communicate "Stay determined" with us over and over.

[Nahdia]

[Nahdia]

(replace "Heart!" with "Chara!" for full canon)

[Nahdia]

Now it is a matter of who is Mr. Wingdings person?

VOTE: Maxous

I believe Asgore more than this unknown Wingdings thing.

Undoubtedly Gaster.

[Nahdia]

Who, by the way, has a terrifying cameo in the intro image if you look really closely in the top right:

[Nahdia]

They didn't directly save zakk. They doubled the deadline when it was half over. No one was in any rush.

Other stuff Gaster has done has been directly antitown (like the day 2 shenanigans, reducing the deadline, etc). Gaster as Force of Nature or as Scum are both possible, really doubt they're town at this point though. Especially with the intro image cameo.

[Nahdia]

oh im misremembering bleh.

right but they did it in the middle of the day. not like we were rushed for time.

[Nahdia]

Win Condition:

You win when all non-Town players have been eliminated from the game and there is at least one Town player still alive.

Town only wins when all non-town are gone. Everyone self-aligned is an enemy. Lynch Maxous.

[Nahdia]

The only way we can possibly win "with" any other wincon is if their winning removes them from the game, like Nosferatu & SlySly's role.

[Nahdia]

I don't think Maxous is telling the truth.

Again, survivors are directly in conflict with our win condition; lynch all non town.

[Nahdia]

The whole point of a survivor is that they have to survive. I don't think we need to lynch him to win, that is, if he is telling the truth.

Look at the town wincon again, dingus.

[Nahdia]

Win Condition:

You win when all non-Town players have been eliminated from the game and there is at least one Town player still alive.

Town only wins when all non-town are gone. Everyone self-aligned is an enemy. Lynch Maxous.

[Nahdia]

Maxous has claimed non-town. He needs to die.

[Nahdia]

but she quoted the one from post #1 instead of directly saying it was HER win-con.

because im not gonna directly quote my own damn role PM

[Nahdia]

why have we still not lynched maxous

[Nahdia]

Seriously, what's all these pages today about? I don't get it.

[Nahdia]

Why is this not simple?

[Nahdia]

Oh. Right. Pine. well what's the argument about in the mean time?

[Nahdia]

If all you guys do is argue, Pine isn't gonna realize they have shit to respond to when they do check back in.

[Nahdia]

Christ almighty.

Because he

claimed non-town.

And because

the town win condition states we need to eliminate all non-town.

It doesn't say "threats to town". It doesn't say "all non-town except Maxous because lol idk". It says

ALL FUCKING NON-TOWN

.

[Nahdia]

From the god damn sample town role PM:

Win Condition:

You win when

a

l

l

n

o

n

-

T

o

w

n

players have been eliminated from the game and there is at least one Town player still alive.

[Nahdia]

E-L-I-M-I-N-A-T-E-D.

Maxous has claimed something that we town, by the very fucking nature of our god damn role PM, have to fucking E-L-I-M-I-N-A-T-E.

This isn't hard, dammit. This is literally as easy as it god damn gets.

[Nahdia]

BECAUSE HE'S SCUM.

[Nahdia]

In what fucking world does Skullduggery put a benign fucking

survivor

who wins if he survives in the same game where the town role PM states we need to eliminate all non town.

Maxous claimed he can win with town. Our role PM's make it very damn clear we can't win with any frickin' survivors. This isn't a fucking paradox people, there's a very simple solution.

H

I

N

T

:

H

E

L

I

E

D

[Nahdia]

I already explained this.
SlySly was TOWN. Nosferatu was TOWN. And their alternate win conditions made them LEAVE THE GAME.

Maxous has claimed NON-TOWN. This isn't the same situation by a long shot.

[Nahdia]

My. God.

[Nahdia]

Literally. Confirmed. Scum. Right. In. Front. Of. Us.

This isn't a matter of reads. This is a matter of

basic fucking logic

using facts given to us by the god damn moderator.

[Nahdia]

my fucking god.

this isn't setup spec you god damn putz.

this is someone claiming something that contradicts moderator information. in other words: confirmed scum.

my fucking god, people. shameful.

[Nahdia]

V/LA until 12/12. Finals week.

[Nahdia]

Okay hold up.

That message? It read "A new faction has been created.
MY FACTION."

Throw every single read you've had this game out the window. The scum faction only just got created.

[Nahdia]

Translation:

Stay determined.

The scum faction only just got created.

I doubt it.

Then how in God's name do you interpret this?

"A new faction has been created.
MY FACTION."

It's in Wingdings. That means it's from W.D. Gaster. He created a new faction on death.

[Nahdia]

Notice there's a day long gap between "technical difficulties" and the start of the night, a night which lasted

extra long

(it was 3 days instead of 2 days).

Maxous had a day to create his scum faction. Then that new scum faction had 3 days to re-orient themselves to their new situation.

[Nahdia]

I mean, maybe. But I would be very very unsurprised if that's the only scum faction in the game, considering how things were going before the Maxous lynch. We don't know Maxous' role still, it's possible he was just fucking shit up in lots of ways.

Anyway, Narna, do you have a guilty on Not Chara or something?

[Nahdia]

@Nahdia:

If we had no scum prior to Maxous lynch then who the heck has been shooting Townies at night? If it was a Ton Vig they should have c;aimed already, but nobody did.

Hmm. I was gonna say Maxous could have been making the kills himself but that can't be, since I jailed him Night 4 and a kill happened. Fair enough.

[Nahdia]

Either way, old townreads are likely now invalid.

[Nahdia]

Wait, nevermind, Maxous was ascetic.

Maxous coulda been making the kills -_-'

[Nahdia]

A time delay. Of course. An ability that just delays the beginning of the night phase for one day for no reason whatsoever, followed by a message from the moderator that's a lie. Of course, MathBlade. Brilliant. Really.

[Nahdia]

Need I remind you that

this is a bastard game

, and up until now we still had no indication of what the bastard element to it was!?

THIS is the bastard element. A handful of people's alignment just flipped.

[Nahdia]

And you didn't even try to explain the extended night phase. Are you gonna suggest Maxous also had an ability to extend the night phase by a day for no reason whatsoever, which he can use after death?

[Nahdia]

Right. Asked skull to post. AFTER HE WAS DEAD. IN THE MIDDLE OF A NIGHT PHASE. OF COURSE...

[Nahdia]

There's denial and then there's this, MathBlade. This is lunacy. If you want to refute my theory, at least make some god damn sense.

[Nahdia]

My god.

[Nahdia]

Tell me what fucking mod gives a role the following ability:

"If you are lynched, the night phase is delayed by a day. Then you will troll the town into thinking you formed a new faction. Then the next night phase will be extended by a day."

BECAUSE THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING...

[Nahdia]

I am not refuting your theory. I am merely stating that another faction doesn't have to exist. It isn't proven to.

I find this inaccurate.

[Nahdia]

Have fun losing the game because you're holding onto you townreads from before a blatantly obvious cult phase occurred, you obstinate fuck.

[Nahdia]

I seriously can't fucking deal with this anymore. Whatever scum faction is out there, I am

begging

you to kill me. PLEASE.

[Nahdia]

Hey.

Hey guys.

Vote the mod with me.

Seriously. We lose nothing if I'm wrong.

I already told you we tried that -_-

[Nahdia]

VOTE: BigYoshiFan

[Nahdia]

I doubt Maxous was directly writing those messages. They were probably just pre-made messages that went off when certain abilities fire. The alternative is that whenever Maxous wanted to use an ability, he also had to literally type out a message he wanted to go along with it. Which is silly.

[Nahdia]

Iunno, maxous just doesn't seem like the kinda guy who would type the word "delightful". Or be super dramatic with the "MY FACTION." thing.

[Nahdia]

Who did Nahdia jail?

No one.

[Nahdia]

Lemme answer your question with a question.

Why would I block anyone?

[Nahdia]

Why in the hell would I be interested in saving anyone when I've clearly stated I strongly believe a mass culting just happened?

[Nahdia]

How would that verify their alignment at all......?

[Nahdia]

I don't follow your thinking even slightly, Mathblade. My jailkeep has failed every single time I've used it by some mechanism or another. So no, my targeting anyone doesn't verify shit.

[Nahdia]

I'm not using and sort of protective power the night of a mass culting. That's final.

[Nahdia]

Especially if you're arguing this is now multiball rather than a single scum faction now exists, that's just meshugas.

[Nahdia]

How can I make this more clear?

There. Is. No. One. I. Don't. Want. Dead.

[Nahdia]

Either way, old townreads are likely now invalid.