Newbie 1758 - Symmetry (Game Over)

[Joshz]

before any lovely people wanna come in: this is not defeatist. you can vote me today if that makes you happy, whatever, im getting lynched anyways because howards tunnel is deeper than journey to the center of the earth. it does not matter because tomorrow howard and the one scum have the numbers to lynch me. even if you do intend on lynching me today first you should decide which of sobolev and hellfire are scum. this is your one shot and your time to think. howard, same goes to you. even assume i am scum: think about your plan for when i flip town. you dont get to go tomorrow and say but josh is a dumbass GG scum and take a 50/50 guess. lets think about this now and decide, while im ALIVE and can contribute an opinion, which of hellfire and sobolev is scum. honestly, i dont see sobolev being dumb enough to not kill locust. however, i do see howard doing that to bus the newbies and look townier. @LOCUST: you are the ic. look at howards content and make SURE hes town, because im clearly biased and i dont want to lose the game because i dont want to hand howard a free win if hes scum. tbh that kill only makes sense from howard or hellfire but on the other hand sobolev is scummier in almost every aspect so lets see.

[Joshz]

obv i mean make sure you read him as town since youre just vanilla and cant actually know yourself as a fact

[Huntress]

I'll get onto this tomorrow. Too late to think about it tonight.

[Joshz]

lol i mean huntress not locust but anyways gn

[HowardRoark]

If Hellfire Missile is scum playing a crazy game, then he's made the case for policy lynching . . . and it should have been yesterday. No offense, but there's been nothing productive and I gave benefit in a Newbie game.

I certainly had a bit of a scum read on Human Sequencer, but the way it went down was awful. Once again, town should

NEVER

self hammer!

I've read Sobolev Space several times (ISO and with others) and just don't see it. She's expressing thoughts, asking questions, making cases, and not being inconsistent. With Hellfire Missile's flip, I believe she is town.

@Joshz: Convince me that Sobolev Space is scum.

[Sobolev Space]

Kinda a bummer we didn't get to see any last thoughts from Locust. Oh well. NK means we're probably in a no doc game.

I have the strongest read against Joshz and his actions yesterday seal it for me. Quickly from ISO 685, 691 & 700 & 728, 732, and 760. More to follow later tonight. PEDIT: add 772.

I didn't see anything especially scummy in any of these posts. Could you do a bit more indepth analysis about what you found suspicious?

I think there is a positive case for HM being scum. HM did express some confusion about the claimed roles at the beginning of day 2 which could explain the lack of a Locust kill night 1. Given HMs style, however, its hard to read through their posts for any especially scummy things.

I also find it odd that Howard has gone under the radar for most of the game except for a mild scum read of him by Joshz. I'll have to look through his ISO when I have more time. I haven't seen anything especially scummy from him but I will say that if I were scum I would ideally be playing exactly how Howard is now.

@Howard, do you mean Sequencer's flip in the post above?

[Sobolev Space]

Also @Howard: why would Sequencer's flip give me towncred in your eyes?

[Hellfire Missile]

locust

and whichever noobie is a townie, you should think long and hard about your lynch because regardless of if it happens today or tomorrow im getting lynched by howard and theres nothing any of us townies can do about it.

Locust is dead.

??

[Hellfire Missile]

locust

and whichever noobie is a townie, you should think long and hard about your lynch because regardless of if it happens today or tomorrow im getting lynched by howard and theres nothing any of us townies can do about it.

Locust is dead.

??

Oh wait nvm you said huntress

[Hellfire Missile]

With Hellfire Missile's flip, I believe she is town.

I'm not dead.

What?

[Hellfire Missile]

so if we don't have a doc or a mafia role blocker, the chart says there's a cop, mafia goon, and vanilla townie. What does this mean? Does the town get an extra town and the mafia get an extra good?

[Huntress]

Yes, a goon and five townies are added to the three roles shown in each row or column.

Now that a cop has flipped the only possible combinations are:
Row 2: Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5
or
Column B: Mafia Goon x 2, Town Cop, Vanilla Townie x 6

Row two is unlikely (but still possible) so the current setup is probably column B.

[HowardRoark]

I meant to expand on my thoughts but was a little too tired upon returning home last night.

@Sobolev Space: Yes, I meant Human Sequencer's flip not Hellfire Missile's. I did the ISO before Human Sequencers flip but it was deprioritized with the sacrifice and trust scheme yesterday. Your interactions looked a bit more TvT or possibly Human Sequencer being scum. With his flip and a quick ISO reread, TvT makes more sense.

Joshz wanted a Hellfire Missile lynch

TODAY

(yesterday). When Human Sequencer lays out a plan to sacrifice himself Joshz is against it, then he switches to encouraging the lynch with a basis of trusting a dead townie's reads. Today he discards that

dead conftown read

strategy and goes after Sobolev Space without explaination, not Hellfire Missile.

@Joshz: What changed? There is, and has been, the most important thing that the others have done to keep you from "getting lynched by howard" . . . not voting for you. As long as I keep reading you as scum, I'll keep presenting my arguments.

@Hellfire Missile: Because we had a cop who was able to investigate but was killed last night, and nobody has claimed doc . . . it is mostly likely a 2 Goon versus 6 Vanilla + 1 Cop setup. Which means we're down to 1 Goon versus 4 Vanilla and two chances to get it right. (Apparently Huntress ninja'd me.)

[Hellfire Missile]

[quote="In post 739, Joshz"

]Human being lynched first validates both reads

because he is convinced you are town and I am town so a town flip is indicative I can trust you more..[/quote]

it doesnt matter why. it was still awful. even if

he was 100000% confident in lets say sobolev being scum - he is just a vanilla townie. that is still a read and can therefore definitely be wrong

, ESPECIALLY here in a newbie game. he killed off discussing his reads or his lynch.

Do these things contradict

[Hellfire Missile]

cringe

i fucked up

i don't know how to quote but you guys get the gist right

[Joshz]

This game is already over, we lynch HM then Sobolev, if we do that we win either D2 or 3 guaranteed(tm)

I've slept on it and changed my mind by the way, I think Sobolev is more likely our scum, but as long as we lynch her tomorrow I don't mind lynching HM today.
Howard isn't our scum and if he is he deserves the win.

We won't have to lynch Howard.

If we can lynch three (and I thought we could only lynch 2) I will -gladly- put myself on the line to be lynched if Sobolev and HM flip town.

Sobolev is our scum, I really shouldn't have to explain why 699 is scummier than anything else in this thread.

Sobolev just took a complete 180 in playstyle, this is scum realizing what she's doing isn't working and panicking over getting caught.

Of course I don't consider the possibility that I'm the NK for two nights. That's Locust and Huntress. You're reaching pretty hard there.

I'm not buying your gambit, it reads faker than fake nails to buy 'just one more day' in a hopeless situation. Lynch this.

Howard, Huntress, if you're reading this after I've been lynched and flip town, trust Josh.

Also, you get one heart each.

<3 <3

Where does he say Hellfire is more likely scum???? He says the exact opposite and is why I rather lynch Sobolev rn. I am trusting him. Don't outright low to make me look worse.

[Joshz]

And I do still want to lynch Hellfire. We only get one shot at this thanks to someone so we need to make sure. I do not see anyone besides Howard or Hellfire not killing locust n1.

[Joshz]

I meant to expand on my thoughts but was a little too tired upon returning home last night.

@Sobolev Space: Yes, I meant Human Sequencer's flip not Hellfire Missile's. I did the ISO before Human Sequencers flip but it was deprioritized with the sacrifice and trust scheme yesterday. Your interactions looked a bit more TvT or possibly Human Sequencer being scum. With his flip and a quick ISO reread, TvT makes more sense.

Joshz wanted a Hellfire Missile lynch

TODAY

(yesterday). When Human Sequencer lays out a plan to sacrifice himself Joshz is against it, then he switches to encouraging the lynch with a basis of trusting a dead townie's reads. Today he discards that

dead conftown read

strategy and goes after Sobolev Space without explaination, not Hellfire Missile.

@Joshz: What changed? There is, and has been, the most important thing that the others have done to keep you from "getting lynched by howard" . . . not voting for you. As long as I keep reading you as scum, I'll keep presenting my arguments.

@Hellfire Missile: Because we had a cop who was able to investigate but was killed last night, and nobody has claimed doc . . . it is mostly likely a 2 Goon versus 6 Vanilla + 1 Cop setup. Which means we're down to 1 Goon versus 4 Vanilla and two chances to get it right. (Apparently Huntress ninja'd me.)

This is explicitly what I meant and is why I'm doubting you're conftown anymore. Human wanted Sobolev lynched...? Nothing keeps me from getting lynched by you to throw to mafia tomorrow so your argument is invalid. We need to solve this game with this lynch. So get out of your fucking tunnel and discuss who of Sobolev and Hellfire you think is scum because you sure as fuck need a plan for when you land us in a shitty lylo. I said earlier multiple fucking times thst i did not trust human and thought his offers to sacrifice himself were scummy and you've even acknowledged yourself thst both human was scummy and not a bad lynch. This is the stage of a game where one tunnelling townie is
enough to win the game for scum. I'm actually so sick of you blatantly lying about my actions that I'm probably going to stop replying to you though as I find it unproductive. You're probably town because lynching Sobolev and Hellfire would win scum you the game but you're not helpful to finding scum.

[HowardRoark]

@Joshz: So despite 772, you're back to the dead conftown read and voting based on Human Sequencer's reads? And you want us to follow as well. I don't like it. At best it's lazy. At worst it is scummy. I think the latter. You left of Human Sequencer's last post, 763, "lynch sobolev/josh in any order and win". Or is that rant of a frustrated townie different than the DayahaangRai one? I am focused on you, but not blind to the other players. The argument about the N1 non cop kill has been in my thoughts, but not dominating them. I can buy into the Hellfire Missile mistake of it. What about Sobolev Space? If you can't see her doing that (791), then why is your vote there? The introduced WIFOM, from my point of view, is that you want to implicate me with it as a gambit that you would never attempt while ego spewing "I'm obvtown" and attempting to take exceptional credit for the Jackel98 lynch. I'm doing the work; you're shouting loudly and attempting to pull at emotions. My plan is to continue attempting to find and lynch scum. I'd like to see more from Huntress, but I'm also not going to blindly follow her reads just because she is confirmed town.

@Hellfire Missile: Yes they contradict and are a basis for my additional arguments against Joshz today. Do you have anything original to offer?

@Sobolev Space: Have you completed your ISO of me? I feel that your style is somewhat similar to mine. How do you think they differ? Are you still willing to volunteer (end of 699) today? What part of that made/makes sense?

[Joshz]

Yea im done reading your posts lmfao

You're lynching me regardless of what I say so you knight as well get your head out of your ass and start hunting for who you think is scum with the assumption I'm town, since I'm getting lynched anyways. Don't reply to this, I'm not reading it, your bullshit rhetoric has annoyed me enough for this game.

[Hellfire Missile]

Yea im done reading your posts lmfao

You're lynching me regardless of what I say so you knight as well get your head out of your ass and start hunting for who you think is scum with the assumption I'm town, since I'm getting lynched anyways. Don't reply to this, I'm not reading it, your bullshit rhetoric has annoyed me enough for this game.

Howard?

was "knight" supposed to be "might"

[Joshz]

I knew signing up for a newbie was a mistake back on d1 when I was being scumread for horrible reasons. So tell ya what.

VOTE: hellfire

I'm leaving this thread and not viewing it again because I'm fucking sick of it. Lynch me or don't. If im still here in lylo I'll vote Sobolev. Otherwise, this game has ruined enough of my moods and I'm done wasting it. Mod can sub me if he wants but at this stage in the game it's probably a waste. I said from the beginning of yesterday we were wasting our time prolonging the day and I was right. I can't preach about being some mafia God because clearly I'm learning too but at least I'm not a player who gets tunnel vision ever and that's a personal flaw many people get.

Here is how you decide between lynching Sobolev and Hellfire. Hellfire makes more sense as scum to me and is the only explanation for the non cop kill besides you yourself which nobody is going for so whatever. Sobolev is who human had locked as scum. I don't even see much of a case on him, I was trusting the dead townie which you explicitly said I wasn't so what fucking ever. Because of Howard this game only gets one 50/50 to find scum so gl!

Remember this post tomorrow then I likely get lynched today for giving up. Sorry but this thread has impacted my irl state and that's more important than a mafia game.

[Joshz]

Actuually leaving my vote here

VOTE: howard

I've thought about it and all of this lying / contradicting / tunnelling he's done is scummy as fuck. I am on mobile so no big wall post. Read through his posts and you will see the clear contradictions and outright lying ie my vote on Sobolev and his tunnel has been here since early day 1. I don't think Howard has played a good enough enough game to get a free win as scum. Huntress is both experienced and conftown so I'll let her decide on the lynch and whichever newbie is a townie should listen to her.

[Joshz]

Something else I noted: he is explicitly voting me for not voting Hellfire. This is subliminally telling people "Hey look, I've tunneled my guy since day 1 and haven't wavered! I'm townier in comparison" which is cute.

[Hellfire Missile]

Something else I noted: he is explicitly voting me for not voting Hellfire. This is subliminally telling people "Hey look, I've tunneled my guy since day 1 and haven't wavered! I'm townier in comparison" which is cute.

Wait what.

so not voting for the anti town player automatically makes you look scummy

wtf