Mini 1859: D&D Curse of Strahd Mafia - Game Over

[Andrius]

SLYSLY
I AM HERE

[Andrius]

Pine, Jason, its been awhile.
Creature, drealz, good to see you.

Anything I should know before I start reading?

Might not get to it until tomorrow as I have to protect New LA from the Ganglion invasion tonight and hopefully recruit a special someone.

[Andrius]

I had a bigger post which got lost so my commentary for the first 1I pages is now MIA.

Town
Sly
Pine
Shaziro
Kuror0
Drealm
Dunnstral

Culted
Shadow


Scum
Creature
Jason
Kuroixhf
Persivul

I'm really not seeing the Pine Scum thing.
There's a lot of spec forming around the item and pine and it needs to stop.
Lynching him because he has it is stupid. Lynching it to get it to a townie is stupid because we can't know his alignment before death and we can't guarantee that the recipient is Town. Its a stupid argument.

I was going to toss shadow into a town like but then he voted pine.

He's a Miller claim. Proper protocol is a vig shot. If he's still alive tomorrow, I'm down to lynch him.

Does this sound non-genuine to anyone else?

VOTE: Pine I'll park this here until someone better comes along.

Your posts sound non genuine, yes.

I didn't pay attention to the post, tbh. I saw googled and figured he was repeating himself.

And here we are bickering over a trifle again.

Feel like kuroi's reaction to getting policy voted was kinda flaccid? Like does he scumread me for it or is he just pissed?
Kinda feel like he's pushing creature for nai/surfacey things while there's already a smidgen of hype there? Scummy.

Agreed.

Agree with drealmerz that Persivul's 503 is terrible.

VOTE: drealmerz

Why this over kuroixhf or Persivul?

Creature is definitely inflating his post count here. I'm not sure what to make of it other than Scum.

[Andrius]

Sly I'm willing to vote any of my scumreads who do you want to die first?

VOTE: Jasonwazza
Until Sly and I sort out what we're gonna do.
And Pine. I owe him anyway for saving my bacon in the werewolf game.

[Andrius]

Jason I basically thought your earlygame stuff was terrible. Your entrance was bad and the spec was bad.

When I'm not mobile I might provide better words but typing on my mobile is frustrating.

[Andrius]

I highly recommend the Creature wagon, we're accepting all votes!

What are your thought ps on Persivul?
I realize my mobile posting means I don't have a lot of reads for things but still interested in your thoughts.

[Andrius]

See the BP claim isn't a BP claim and its straight up Pine.
I mean. I see where has coming from but it just sounds like scum making a big fru fru over nothing.

[Andrius]

Agree with drealmerz that Persivul's 503 is terrible.

Why? Do you even understand the context of the post?

Yes

To clarify, Andrius, you're saying that it's my posts that are coming across non-genuious?

And yes

[Andrius]

Again, I'm also ok lynching Persivul.

[Andrius]

looks like he's white knighting pine here because he's not taking an entire appreciation of the push that happened and then literally scumreading shadow just for voting pine, who's been posting more town content than a lot of people, while not acknowledging shadow's specific hangups there.

No, I'm defending a townread of mine.
Also, if you look at my 803 again you'll notice that you and shadow both occupy a second group that isn't scum.
Yes, I didn't like his vote on Pine.
But I'm not scumreading him, you both are in a secondary tier of TOWN.

Town
Sly
Pine
Shaziro
Kuror0
Drealm
Dunnstral

Culted
Shadow


Scum
Creature
Jason
Kuroixhf
Persivul

TOWN is first.
Then *space* left open.
Then TOWN GROUP B which is basically here to denote they are townreads but not as strong.
Then SCUM.

Also towards the end it's mostly bad shade-commentary. Cherry picking posts from a few of his scumreads looks less like solving them and providing examples to fit his reads.

Uh, no.
I lost alot of content when I lost my post with the first 17-18 pages of reading.
Also no one wants to read an old-school replace-in wall of text so I changed my style.
I might throw things together later depending on how committed I am to read this game again. lol

kuroi could be annoying terrible town. Still a scumread.
Especially since a potential vig already has their hands full killing Dunnstral?
Never played with either of them before but ok.

I don't think I said you had a scumread on persivul.
I wanted to know why you prefer drealmerz over two options I listed. Both scumreads of mine.

Will have to look back at kuror0's case again.

I have come to expect a bit of eccentricity from drealmerz.

That's all I can say.

[Andrius]

Again, I'm also ok lynching Persivul.

You had me at the bottom of your reads list and you reiterate that you would lynch me...yet your vote is on Jason. What's up with that?

I had a bigger post which got lost so my commentary for the first 1I pages is now MIA.

Scum
Creature
Jason
Kuroixhf
Persivul

Sly I'm willing to vote any of my scumreads who do you want to die first?

VOTE: Jasonwazza
Until Sly and I sort out what we're gonna do.

Sly I'm willing to vote any of my scumreads who do you want to die first?

[Andrius]

My scumlist isn't ordered

[Andrius]

I am catching up. Busy weekend. Substance soon.

He lives!
*fanfare*

[Andrius]

drealmers is more likely town.
Cannot yet discern whether culted's push on him is town-driven or scum-driven.

[Andrius]

"Buddying" SlySly would mean that we're not already best buds from a previous conflict.
Which we are.

[Andrius]

OK
ONLY LIVING GAME
SLYSLY WHERE YOU AT LETS PARTY

[Andrius]

drealmerz.
I don't think you being abrasive is helping your case.

[Andrius]

I'm caught up!

[Andrius]

edit: Oh hello list.

[Andrius]

Sly how do you have three nullreads.

Agree with 376, that one got me ruffled too.
Assuming we're talking about the same thing, I don't necessarily agree.

[Andrius]

So what you're saying is you have reservations about a Jason lynch.
ok.
Can I interest you in Persivul?

[Andrius]

The Infamous Persivul 503

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm willing to at least wait through N1 to take Pine out.

If Pine is scum and we don't lynch him, then scum definitely have the item tonight.

If Pine is scum and we do lynch him, then there's a good chance he gives the item to town as wifom, since whomever he gives it to will be a suspect.

Paraphrasing...

1. "If Pine's scum and we don't lynch him, since Pine's scum, scum will have the item tonight." Truth
2. "If Pine's scum and we do lynch him, whoever he gives it to gets the bullseye." Truth

I don't see scumminess here.

I think the issue here was both options are if he's scum.
Whether he's town-aligned or not is never discussed here as an option.

[Andrius]

I get the feeling I'll need to reread since we're now looking at kuror0 and I'm a bit disconnected.

CURRENTLY I'm not a fan but I can reread and see what pans out.

[Andrius]

My heart is rent tonight.
I will read this tomorrow either before or after my 9am thing.

[Andrius]

Reading commences when my breakfast is out of the microwave.

[Andrius]

Because I told you I'd do this before/after my 9am thing?

[Andrius]

Question is are you just being pissy or trying to make a point?
Because announcements are NAI?
Being pissy may have some influence?

[Andrius]

I mean I wouldn't be surprised if the mod didn't have all role/ability correlations 100% accurate, that's just good modding.
But I agree wrt the items.

[Andrius]

Dunn, drealmz, Shaziro are town.
Jason scum.
shadow questionable.

VOTE: JasonWazza

I have a decent idea what it is, and i'd be willing to take it.

And as a side note, assuming Mafia knows what places are bad/what places have items, we have to suspect anyone who wanted to stay in the woods/Go to the shops.

We don't know if mafia know or not.
This is a bit pointless.
I mean, I get the town motivation for this speculation, but its groundless currently.

Why are you assuming scum know all the paths?

Why are you assuming this item is good?

Informed Minority, and makes sense for the game mechanic.

I know what the item is, and it benefits my class well if i'm right as to what it does.

SHAZIRO:

Tinfoil Theory. Does Strand want/require any of these items for some nefarious purpose? Or are they just loot for us?
Because it would make sense, if he needs them, to have foreknowledge of what he needs/where they are.
I ask because Jason just provided knowledge of what an item is.
Which I'm not ruling out for role-related but still.

I am 100% against Dunnstral getting the item btw.

This I agree with. On the grounds of Miller.

It's not like a black mage will be a doctor, so if you can relate something to what it's possible equivalents are then you likely have an idea of what something can do.

I get the first part. Regarding the second part, this is Mafia, not D&D. I don't know if its the fact that I don't have the flavor knowledge that may be blinding me here, but I look at it this way.
Imagine this is some generic D&D magic item, like a Ring of Protection. We don't have AC here, so it has to do something else. Obviously it will be a protective ability in some manner, but that could be Bulletproof, or Doctor, or possibly even Bodyguard. I may be the only person seeing it this way, but from you saying things along the lines of "My class will benefit the most", it sounds like you

know

which of the three it would be.

If the flavor makes it that much more obvious, do you really think its more helpful to town to be this secretive about what it does?

This man has a good point.

I do believe keeping it secretive is better, for the simple fact that then the Scum don't know how strong/weak it could be and this forces them into a worse spot.

But you just said you believed scum might have foreknowledge of where the items are at least. Which means there's some benefit to them that's item-specific?

Also as an aside, giving the items (in general) to strong town reads is a bad idea, because your just asking for the Scum to start killing them.

Disagree.
No townie should be afraid of death.

Ok. some thoughts after my catch up. Jazzon too many assumptions at this point are not useful for town it is good to have your own idea but being locked on them with so many things being uncertain doesn't help.

I think there is a chance some items may be more useful or unlock an ability for a certain role but I doubt every item we get is designed like that.

Now the thing is who we give the item. The best option would be for someone we trust but at this point it is really hard to have a strong town read or anything close imo and most of us would want to get the item just because it is nice to explore the mechanics of the game and stuff. For now I volunteer as a guinea pig to get the item and we can agree to openly say if there is a role specific restriction or that kind of stuff so we can make more informed decision on the objects we get later in the game. That's most of my ideas at this point.

The Jason part I like because I agree so I might be biased here.

The second half doesn't really provide anything new. More theory. hrmmm

Sly is still town.

Dunnstral's vote in 361 is horrid.
shaddows and culted all over it. hooray

culted is town.
pine town.

Persivul tunnelled in on Pine.

Don't worry, I'm not a MariaR relative.

phew

@Culted: Let vig deal with Dunn. If there's no vig in game, we can always lynch him tomorrow.

PEdit: No, they didn't. But now scum have to wonder if I was telling the truth and it's not useful to go after me, or whether I'm bluffing. I figure I may be able to absorb a kill this way. I've stuck my neck out this far and painted a target on my back, I may as well confuse them more. Or not! Fuck you, scum.

Yeah, and town has to wonder if you're putting out an excuse for why you're not being NK'd.

OR if you flip the chessboard over, scum want to lynch a town bulletproof/self-healer since they can't kill him at will.

Kuroi only seems to respond to stuff directed at him.
idgi

Kuroi you should try to give your thoughts about what has happened and how you perceive other players instead of going full defensive and ignoring everything else.

THANK YOU

I agree with this 100%. I don't agree with lynching Pine though because if we do, he gets to pick who the item goes to. If he dies at night, we get to vote on it.

Lynching scum outweighs the benefit of any item. We don't know that we have a vig.

This is true.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm willing to at least wait through N1 to take Pine out.

If Pine is scum and we don't lynch him, then scum definitely have the item tonight.

If Pine is scum and we do lynch him, then there's a good chance he gives the item to town as wifom, since whomever he gives it to will be a suspect.

The latter is wifom.
He could give it to scum expecting us to believe he gave it to town to paint them red.
He could give it to town expecting us to believe he gave it to scum expecting us to believe he gave it to town to paint them red.
etc

Yeah uh kuror0 could be scum.
Jason still my preferred lynch.
Kuroi useless zzz

[Andrius]

TOWN
Pine
drealmerz
Shaziro
culted
SlySly
shadow

Dunn
Kuroi

SCUM
Jason
Persivul
Kuror0
Creature

[Andrius]

TOWN and SCUM are not ranked.
Dunn and Kuroi occupy a lesser town bracket in which I would love to see a vig shoot bullets

[Andrius]

Or, you know, the vig could shoot SCUM too.
That's always acceptable.

[Andrius]

??

[Andrius]

Assuming we're talking about the same thing, I don't necessarily agree.

Can you tell me why you don't agree?

I admit, I've pulled something like that before in XENOBLADE years ago.

Crumb your action with a hypothetical.

[Andrius]

Basically my thought was we're still sitting here spec'ing on flavor.

I mean, I love it when flavor matches role/ability.
Its :goodmodding: to do the opposite, at least to some degree.

[Andrius]

You know, the whole main character in the source material is a vanilla.
The obvious doctor isn't a doctor etc.

[Andrius]

That's one Hail Mary for ya.

[Andrius]

Take this post as you will:

1) The mod could be CHEEKY and add a THERES A CHANCE clause to deliberately leave things open
2) It could not be Jason
3) Role could be scum to protect against a randomly-selected scumdeath, which would be freaking brutal for the scumteam to die randomly

[Andrius]

Let's do something like "make yourself killed before we lynch you"

And how do you propose we do that?

I'm against this btw.

[Andrius]

IF THE GLOVE FITS

[Andrius]

I don't smell the perfume yet this game Sly so that's a major plus
But this doesn't sit well with me

I mean no I don't want to lynch hypothetical town protective role but I want to lynch scum

[Andrius]

3) Role could be scum to protect against a randomly-selected scumdeath, which would be freaking brutal for the scumteam to die randomly

I think this apple is organic.

VOTE: JasonWazza

Andrius, do you know where I might find an Oracle? I have some questions that need to be answered.

Yeah, I'd be freaking pissed if I were scum and randomly chosen to die.
Just like I'd be pissed if someone governor'd a lynch.

Uhhhh, try your local mountaintop?

[Andrius]

Also, you might be after Madame Eva, Sly.

Pls help the flavor-illiterate out?
If it won't provide scum knowledge etc etc

[Andrius]

I won't say why, but Kurio has gained a few townie points.

that implies he did something

[Andrius]

Lynch Votecount 1.A

L-1

(6) JasonWazza - Andrius, Persivul, Pine, drealmerz7, Shaziro, SlySly
(3) drealmerz7 - JasonWazza, Dunnstral, Creature
(2) kuror0 - Culted, SlySly
(1) Persivul - kuror0
(1) Pine - Shaddowez
(1) Shaddowez - KuroiXHF

Not Voting:

With 13 alive, Majority (50%+1) is 7.

Day One Deadline is

(expired on 2016-12-16 19:00:00)

Mod notes:

With Deadline fast appoaching, make sure your vote is accurate to the VC!

[/area]

SlySly is voting twice?

I'm good at this. (Fixed, thank you)

[Andrius]

Is it time to roll out?

I THINK ITS TIME TO ROLL OUT

[Andrius]

Take this post as you will:

1) The mod could be CHEEKY and add a THERES A CHANCE clause to deliberately leave things open
2) It could not be Jason
3) Role could be scum to protect against a randomly-selected scumdeath, which would be freaking brutal for the scumteam to die randomly

Okay but like he claimed bodyguard. So if he's a scum bodyguard scum still dies if he's saving scum.

I think he just fakeclaimed whatever tbh.

IIRC he never fullclaimed.
Or could be lying about his role.
Or fakeclaiming.
There's plenty of COULD BEs, my goal was to address SlySly's WHAT IF with a WELL THIS COULD

[Andrius]

Kuroi, again, demonstrates his ability to only focus on things that have to do with himself.

[Andrius]

[Andrius]

Persivul is 100% town.

I am confirming receipt of something I received in the middle of the night.
You know who you are.

[Andrius]

I'm down for WINERY because WINE.

[Andrius]

That's one Hail Mary for ya.

How do you like me now? I'm smelling cologne. Perfume is so much sweeter.

Andrius replaced in late, I can forgive him for an innocent case of iso-fail.

The way he's been sucking your dick you should be especially wary of him.

In hindsight, Persivul is town for this.

Jason should have spoken up when the truth was brought to light.

VOTE: Winery

You're still town.
Persivul is town.

[Andrius]

I have to admit though: you were right to send it to me.
I'm not sure what I think of your first line though.

Regardless, I trust you.

[Andrius]

Vote: Kresk

we have no need for fortune telling and parlor tricks.
We will prevail with strength of arm and faith on our purpose.

[Andrius]

Also, Sly.
Care to explain the cologne comment?
Who's getting under your skin?

And yeah there's no perfume here.
Just a bunch of sweaty dudes out hunting vampires.

[Andrius]

TOWN
Pine
drealmerz
Shaziro
culted
SlySly
shadow

Dunn
Kuroi

SCUM
Jason
Persivul
Kuror0
Creature

Creature dead.
Jason dead.
Persivul moves up two blocks. Did some reading, confident in a townread on him.


Reads need work

[Andrius]

I mean, sort of.
Not really.

[Andrius]

I have never worn cologne, Sly.
I am merely blood, sweat, tears, and holy purpose.

[Andrius]

Are you trying to insinuate you are concerned about me?

[Andrius]

another day or 2 is good by me

fair and, we shouldn't be hasty in our decision, though we shouldn't dillydally either

What is the "another day or two in response to?"

[Andrius]

Ok cool.

Dreal what do you think of the public cry for vigging dunnstral?

And Id like your honest read on me.

[Andrius]

Well you didn't just say town or scum on me so im surprised.

[Andrius]

Yeah I'm going to need some recalibration given two of my scumreads flipped town and a third is actually town.
I mean I trust you. Have some faith on our cause. The Light will prevail!

Kuror0/Kuroi connection may be important.

[Andrius]

Also knowing that flips include Role PMs is HUGE.
I'll let you mull that one over.

[Andrius]

I'm still here.
Thread's awful quiet though.

[Andrius]

There's always Persivul.
And apparently Kuroi(???).

[Andrius]

I do not need the item.

I have a mighty sword arm, anchored by holy purpose.

Vote: Persivul

unless he chooses to pass on it.

[Andrius]

I'm a bit leery of culted.
Paranoid isn't the right word though.

[Andrius]

At this point I don't really know who's Town,

I'm really not ok with this.

[Andrius]

Pine and dreamerz are descending from the townlist.
culted is more paranoia than actual things but its a note.

[Andrius]

FULL DISCLOSURE:

I received a message from someone overnight.

They basically told me that they have a similar role to Jason's but stronger and more.
Said they hope I'm a True Friend.
Capitalized letters were theirs.

While I appreciate the vote of confidence messaging me, I can't help shake the fact that this is all sorts of troublesome.

[Andrius]

If it weren't for this I'd still be townreading them.

[Andrius]

Yes.

[Andrius]

They specifically told me who it was, implying that they wanted to in what could have been an anonymous message.

[Andrius]

Thoughts:

+This person can, presumably, both message and do their action in the night. Which is strong. Two actions one night, strong. Unless messaging is free.
+Which makes me instantly suspect scum from mod-side.
+If town, this person is somewhat of a protective role, due to the relation to Jason.
+Again, the mod-side argument is scum should also have a protective role.

[Andrius]

Sly, you're talking about cologne.

I'm wondering if that's what this is.

[Andrius]

That was my chief concern, yeah.

[Andrius]

I mean, if this is indeed POWER HEAVY and/or ROLE MADNESS then, yeah, we should expect some overlap.

That being said, scum also have roles and they have to be balanced within their team so they'll likely have THINGs as well.
Not to mention a Traitor.

Doesn't change the fact that we're scumhunting first and scrutinizing claims as a secondary means of finding scum.

[Andrius]

between the messenger and pine I'm much more likely to believe that pine is scum.

Also, keep in mind that they could have fake identified themself through the anonymous message.

This is possible, but their tone/words makes me believe they are who they say they are.

[Andrius]

TOWN
Shaziro
Persivul
culted
SlySly
shadow
Kuroi

Dunn

SCUM
Kuror0
Pine
drealmerz

[Andrius]

dunn's in the middle because I fully expect him to be vig'd one of these nights given the insistence of a good chunk of the playerlist

[Andrius]

Because nothing much has changed.

OUTCOMES:
kuror0 town pulling an innocent on the godfather_kuroi
kuror0 town pulling an innocent on town kuroi
kuror0 scum faking/pulling an innocent on town kuroi
kuror0scum faking/pulling an innocent on buddy_kurio

2 and 3 are more likely.

[Andrius]

I mean

Sly is townreading Persivul
Sly is scumreading me

of course
since its you
you only address things that involve yourself

at this point
id rather someone vig you than dunn

[Andrius]

I mean, yeah. That's kind of a good point. I guess I'm worried about being hard town read, which actually makes me slightly scum read you, since I'm getting that feeling.

If it weren't for the "result" on you you'd be in the SCUM pile for, among other things, being useless.
This is the only thing in your favor.
Its laughable that you think I'm hard townreading you.
You're useless and kuror0 had to waste an action on you in order to have ANYTHING be put in your favor.
ok

dunn's in the middle because I fully expect him to be vig'd one of these nights given the insistence of a good chunk of the playerlist

Huh? I'm a lower townread because you think I'm going to be vigged?

You're not in another category.
I'm actually being somewhat unfair to you shoving you there by yourself.
I'll update the list, sorry.

[Andrius]

TOWN
Shaziro
Persivul
culted
SlySly
shadow
Kuroi
Dunn

SCUM
Kuror0
Pine
drealmerz

[Andrius]

I realize I'm being abrasive but this is all part of the plan to see if you'll actually involve yourself with the game.

[Andrius]

Post Count =/= Post Quality

[Andrius]

Can I get at list of reads from you?

And please explain the Persivul/Myself and You/kuror0 discrepancies if the pairs are not in the same brackets because as you said

So how am I town but Kuror0 scum?

[Andrius]

ACTION ITEMS:

+Reads List from drealmerz
+Reads list from Kuroi

[Andrius]

VOTE: culted

[Andrius]

I imagine I have to wait for the mod for a vote to lynch to count, but Ill vote either Pine or drealmerz at this point.

[Andrius]

I mean there's also kuror0 too.

[Andrius]

Zzz item thief isn't necessarily scum
Could be scumreading culted

Don't assume

[Andrius]

Could further assume scum didnt want or need pine's item
Or pine is scum
Zzz

[Andrius]

Obligatory thieves are the scum of the earth and have no honor post

They profane this just quest etc etc

[Andrius]

Also uh.
Dunnstral. Mr Miller. How do you investigate as? Aka do you investigate as a vampire or villain or vitriolic vole?

[Andrius]

Very unsorted and premature, but I promised a reads list:

Town:
Culted
drealmerz7
Shaziro

Null:
kuror0
SlySly
Andrius

Scum:
Pine
shaddowez
Persivul
Dunnstral

Please explain why Persivul is scum and I am a null read.
Please explain your kuror0 read in light of his claim regarding you.

[Andrius]

Zzz item thief isn't necessarily scum
Could be scumreading culted

Don't assume

What if pine flips scum?

VOTE: Pine

I dont get what youre asking

[Andrius]

At this point Id shoot kuroi and all my scumreads over dunn

[Andrius]

HEY DREALMERZ I HAVENT FORGOTTEN ABOUT YOU

[Andrius]

Andrius, I listened to you at the end of the day yesterday. You said my concerns were a hail mary. As it turns out, my concerns were 100% right on about what I was saying. Pre-lynch/flip, you presented a scenario as an alternative explanation to my concerns. It seemed reasonable to me, so I went with it. Pre-lynch/flip you tried to backtrack explaining how you obviously didn't want to kill a town protective role. I'm not liking the smell. I can document it all if you'd like, but I'm sure you are well aware of what I'm talking about with each point.

Oh man I got full-named.

Yeah, I thought about this and to me, it seemed like you were throwing one last HAIL MARY in that you were scumreading him but didn't want to lynch him so this was your last-ditch effort to derail the wagon. I mean, I don't think you're actually scum but I was scumreading Jason and your attempt for a step back was noted.
I handled that badly.

I mean, the thing is, no, we shouldn't ever WANT to kill town protective/whatever roles because we don't want to kill town. But I thought he was mafia and went for him out of that. We can't back down from claimed roles simply because of what they claim.

Unless they're masons.
Nacho and I hydra'd once, as town, and lynched a claimed mason D1 because no partner backed them up.
Their partner was the one person who hadn't posted yet.
We lost that game hard.
Don't lynch masons, kids.
Its a bad idea.

[Andrius]

I'm guessing you're setting up a mason claim.

No but I'm making things crystal clear so if I die before I can claim you don't have to wonder what I've been up to.

[Andrius]

Also Sly pls if I were a mason it'd be with you obviously. <3

[Andrius]

Sly do you have any thoughts regarding my messenger?

Just curious.

[Andrius]

I mean "masons" these days are guaranteed to be clear, unlike back in your days of olde.
I mean, GODFATHERS are frowned upon now so "masons" not being clear to each other is a whole different ball.

[Andrius]

I mean "masons" these days are guaranteed to be clear, unlike back in your days of olde.
I mean, GODFATHERS are frowned upon now so "masons" not being clear to each other is a whole different ball.

My general outlook is, if it's in "Coney Island" or "Theme Park", anything goes. GF frowned upon? This is not my grandfather's mafia!!!

Unless its "BASTARD" I trust it 100%.

[Andrius]

scum:

culted
andrius
slysly
shaziro

my view on persivul has switched to more likely completely wrong/misguided town

I think there are 3 scum because of the traitor, otherwise I'd be inclined 4 because of the seeming powers out there

I don't think multiple traitors makes sense

a messenger sounds interesting, not familiar with those type of mechanics so much so really no idea how it'd work

this is a flavor game and all the things have been flavor heavy - can you tell us how the message was relayed to you, andrius? the sender identified themselves and you believe it was them, did they just come to your room at night and talk to you? whatever you can share would be good, I think, at this point, since you've pretty much outed the more crucial info, which:

I have a hugescum ping here because you've outted their role (even if not fully, but to a degree that I'd be uncomfortable with if I were the messenger, of course not confirming nor denying if I am or not) it seems they trusted you with some private info and you dislcosed it, even if anonymously.

No, I think 3 scum and a traitor is totally viable in a power-heavy, known-swingy game.

Mod PM'd me a separate message from the DAYBREAK general one we all got.

For someone who frowns on outing this, you want details?
If I add flavor people might reverse-engineer what type of role it came from.

Also I disagree with your "hugescum ping" here because its weak as shit.
If I received a message that said DIE ANDY DIE you think I wouldn't out it?
And hey, what I received smelled of cologne so I definitely think it was a buddying attempt.

People who know me know they don't have to send secret messages to get at my heart.

[Andrius]

scum:

culted
andrius
slysly
shaziro

Sly he's on to our masonry.

[Andrius]

Messenger is simply (with/without flavor ofc)
YOU RECEIVED A MESSAGE DURING THE NIGHT:

"WORDS"

Sender may or may not be named. Mine chose to reveal himself, or at least claim who he said he was.

[Andrius]

Also your entire catchup post had scumreads at the beginning without justification for any of them besides myself related to the messenger claim.
drealmer pls

[Andrius]

yeah that's not what I was looking for but if you don't want to share that's cool I won't push it

Uhhhhhh

[Andrius]

You know what.
I think this confirms my TINFOIL. The messenger might be STRAHD. Could be a means of reaching a traitor that doesn't cost an action.

The messenger claimed to be

Spoiler:

drealmerz. Hence my confusion.

[Andrius]

Shaziro I need your help.

Tell me all you know about pigeons.

[Andrius]

Shaziro I need your help.

Tell me all you know about pigeons.

If this wasn't me being overt about flavor I don't know how else to do it.

[Andrius]

drealmerz please.
Think about it.

I know nothing about your role.
That could be scum/ someone else trolling for all that.

I don't know how you're getting scum from this. At all. There's no play one way or the other regarding messengers.

I don't KNOW you're the sender. Nothing confirms you as sender. Mod didn't name you.

I hesitated because if it WASNT YOU you wouldn't need to ASK FOR FLAVOR you could have just been tee hee I know what it is because its me and not said anything.

You didn't have to bark up your own tree.

[Andrius]

You know what.
I think this confirms my TINFOIL. The messenger might be STRAHD. Could be a means of reaching a traitor that doesn't cost an action.

The messenger claimed to be

Spoiler:

drealmerz. Hence my confusion.

between the messenger and pine I'm much more likely to believe that pine is scum.

Also, keep in mind that they could have fake identified themself through the anonymous message.

Pine is scummier than Drealmerz. Just throwing that out there.

What do I win?

Maybe you guys should follow my reads.

There's a reason I'd rather vig kuroi over you.
You're helpful.

[Andrius]

ohyeah and then you told eveyrone it was me

scummmmm

I was going to say "you know my town meta" but you don't.
I'm as open as it comes.

[Andrius]

Well drealmerz is more town than not for this.
I don't see scum drealmerz going to bat with me over this.

[Andrius]

VOTE: Pine

[Andrius]

Also s orry for multiposting I'm posting hrough the steam web browser when I'm dead in-game.

[Andrius]

Which is why I didn't say anything immediately.
You played ball with me.
Then I got the impression it wasn't you.
And then you didn't even have to confirm/deny.
shrug

[Andrius]

Have you seen me play town before?
I just go.

[Andrius]

No, I'm legitimately interested if you've read a towngame of mine.

[Andrius]

No it matters if you're going to harp about my play.

[Andrius]

Look I get you had some plan as to what I'd do.
Sorry I don't conform to your intended outcome.
I play openly and, frankly, the TRUE FRIEND thing was straight-up buddying.

I may not be here tomorrow. Might take a day from this site.

[Andrius]

I wonder what we should be focused on right now


The pool of 3 protective claims (jason being dead with enough protective power that I thought he'd be the only protective)

Or the pool of 1 investigative claim (with a miller in the game)

Gonna need some time to think on this one

This is sarcasm right?

[Andrius]

Why dream over Pine?

[Andrius]

I do think Dreal is panicing a lot for something that shouldn't be that major. I don't know that it's scummy to do so, though.

[Andrius]

I'm not panicking, it's fucking retarded he said a fucking thing about anything and I'm saying why and you're all like 'duhh whaaa?'

you are mostly shit players and I'm tired of it

kill me if you fucking want it's your fucking loss

I'll catch up when I have the fucking time and energy to deal with the stupid

Hello I was ninja'd and didn't see it.

Uh man, take a day and step back or something.
There's no need to get this riled up over it.

Like, I get you're upset. But you being upset solves nothing as far as the game is concerned.

[Andrius]

Lynch Votecount 2.2

L-2

(4) drealmerz7 - Culted, Persivul, Shaddowez, Shaziro
(2) Pine - Dunnstral, Andrius
(1) Dunnstral - Pine
(1) Kuror0 - SlySly
(1) Andrius - drealmerz7

Not Voting:

KuroiXHF, kuror0


With 11 alive, Majority (50%+1) is 6.


Day Two deadline is (expired on 2016-12-30 14:00:00) (With an extension option)


Mod Notes: Please keep things civil with one another. [/area]

This drealmerz wagon composition is pretty garbage and there've got to be scum in here.

[Andrius]

I know Shaziro is our main source of flavor knowledge but I'd love to see more reads and player-interactions instead of more flavor information.

[Andrius]

culted or shadows, Sly?

[Andrius]

I mean I still want Pine dead.
I'm hoping Shaziro just townies himself up tomorrow and takes away the doubt.

[Andrius]

The Baker will be LA through the 25th.
I may post, I may not.

Nothing has changed my list as of my last post.

[Andrius]

Merry Christmas!

Nooses are indeed for Pinesies.

[Andrius]

So we should probably get back into this.
I know we might get a deadline extension but still.

Looks like we're looking at Pine/drealmerz at the moment so we should talk there.
I'd like to see Pine swing.
I'm against a drealmerz lynch at the moment but I wouldn't cry if he were to get shot overnight or lynched without my assistance.
I realize that this is mainly a difference in playstyle but given the information he shared about his role I would have just claimed I CAN INSTANTLY SUCCEED ON A MISSION on Day One and said we're taking the mission let's mission for the auto-win and said nothing about it. Being subtle and never using the ability is a waste. Again, this is a playstyle difference but w/e.

[Andrius]

Basically what I'm saying is I want to lynch Pine but don't want drealmerz around in LyLo.

[Andrius]

ty Clumsy <3

Id rather have it and not need it than not have it.

[Andrius]

drealmerz is erratic.
It seems, over time, everyone will become a scumread of his due to various things.
I devolved from a townread D1 to a scumread based on a difference in playstyle regarding the messenger thing.
Shaziro disagreed with drealmerz and is now a scumread of his.
ok

sigh

[Andrius]

The Cleric claim is the only thing holding me back from Pine.
And its enough to make me go HRNGGGGG

drealmerz is going to continue to frustrate me as long as he is alive


I mean
if I ignore the role stuff
drealmerz is a townread
pine is a scumread
ugh

[Andrius]

and, again, if it IS how it is, you're still scum just leading us on pointless artifact collecting missions while we lynch town during the Day and DO NOTHING TO FIGHT EVIL

GO ON A FUCKING MISSION AND FIGHT SOME EVIL

but noooooooooo

Okay, have you even bothered to look up the Curse of Strahd module? Here's how it works.

Get artifacts to beat Strahd with, trekking around the world and righting some wrongs as you do. Once you get enough artifacts, you go and kill Strahd. That solves -all- of the other problems. Well almost all. The one it doesn't is to do with this one cleric in Barovia and his son who turns into a vampire, but that one we solved with a Reincarnation spell and a pep-talk. What you don't seem to understand is that until we kill the -root- of the problem, Strahd, anything else we do is meaningless. He is always a step ahead of you except for when you go to kill him, because as much as he can -know- fate, he can't deny it when it comes for his head. That is the point. I'm of the firm belief that if we kill Strahd, other scum lose powers in some way. That'd be the big point of having him as the big figurehead character. To do that, we need artifacts. So far, we've gotten nothing but artifacts by doing the shit that you are screaming that we need to stop doing, and that sounds a lot to me like you're worried your vampdaddy will die, or that -you- will die.

shaz, quit repeating your fuckingself

I hear you

I disagree

fuck off with that shit

This is a disagreement on ITEM v MISSION.

[Andrius]

(5) drealmerz7 - Culted, Pine, KuroiXHF, Persivul, Shaziro
(4) Pine - Dunnstral, Andrius, SlySly, drealmerz7

Not Voting:

kuror0, Shaddowez

[Andrius]

Well. Assuming that both Persivul and Kuroi are town from other sources*, that leaves [culted, Pine, Shaziro].

[Andrius]

Question.
Can you explain how any of those abilities are similar to Jason's?

Tracker is strong, yes. But similar?

[Andrius]

Ok. Didn't think of that connection.

[Andrius]

I wouldn't be sad if he were vigged overnight.

[Andrius]

Because you're not in this game, Faraday.

[Andrius]

Because Im leery of you steering us away from the two leading wagons.

[Andrius]

Actually, I'm getting this creeping, sinking feeling that they're both Town.

Shit.

VOTE: Dunnstral

You mean you think you're town?
WELL CRAP

Dunnstral is a terrible vote. This is long past the policy phase and I'm not at all ok lynching him.

[Andrius]

You know.
I actually might be ok with a culted lynch.

ugh

[Andrius]

TOWN
Shaziro
Persivul
SlySly
Kuroi
Dunn
drealmerz

SCUM
Kuror0
Pine
shadow
culted

[Andrius]

I'd segregate my reads into TOWN/town and SCUM/scum but that's not likely to be terribly helpful at this point.

[Andrius]

go fucking die, shaziro

If you can't avoid taking Mafia games to a personal level like this, I would recommend refraining from them until you can. This is the kind of thing I get sick of.

[Andrius]

I'm here just drowning in the Pine/drealmerz dilemma and don't like the third option.
The fact that it comes from culted contributes.

[Andrius]

I mean I wouldn't dance in your blood if you died overnight but I wouldn't be sad either.

[Andrius]

The 'Pine and drealmerz are the current lynch candidates' and am struggling with what to kill.
Like shadow is another I wouldn't dance in his blood nor would I be sad person.
ugh

[Andrius]

I mean I wouldn't dance in your blood if you died overnight but I wouldn't be sad either.

This makes me sad.

Yea I've neglected this game.

I've neglected other games.

Busy time of year mate.

I get rl busy or simple disinterest.
I do.

Doesn't help my gut at all.

[Andrius]

kuroi
I mean shadow is likely scum
pine could still be scum

but kuroi is only a townread because of kuror0 less likely scum
its petty but I would not be sad at all if he died overnight

its bad play, perhaps, but sure

[Andrius]

MY MIND IS TELLING ME NO
BUT MY BODYYYYYYYYY

[Andrius]

And I'm down to never lynch whoever shaz says we should be based on role at this point. : 3

this doesn't help your case at all

[Andrius]

if I had to make a viglist
your name would be on it

fortunately for you
i do not write the vig list
not shoot the bullets

despite holding a gun in my avatar

[Andrius]

See I almost just made a post going F IT and switching to shadow.
Because I want to write Pine off because of CLERIC.
But that's bad play.

urgh

[Andrius]

Why do you think shaz is town?

I mean I wouldn't be surprised if he were scum.

[Andrius]

TOWN
Persivul
SlySly
Dunnstral

town
Shaziro
kuroi
drealmerz

SCUM
Kuror0
Pine
shadow
culted

[Andrius]

Well that was premature.

I'd break down SCUM into SCUM/scum but I don't have anyone in SCUM. Only Jason would have fit that bill. Pine pre-claim.

[Andrius]

How do those reads make any sense to you at all?

pedit: sly's town

andy's weird

Do you want a breakdown or something?
How can I help you?

[Andrius]

I can vote andrius too

or slysly even

Yes we know anyone whose play you disagree with is scum.
Thanks for playing MagnaofIllusion.

[Andrius]

Oh and by the way if you tell anyone else to kill themselves in-thread I will report for you that.

[Andrius]

Oh well not kill themselves but the GO DIE needs to stop pls.

[Andrius]

TOWN
Persivul - obvious town anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head scanned
SlySly - town moving along we're definitely not masons no sireee
Dunnstral - town miller transparency rocks

town
Shaziro - Literally my beef here is the fact that he's gone by for periods of time on flavor information. Like he's the resident flavor adviser and is this only required to help with flavor crap and not find scum. Hence why culted's attitude of LYNCH IMMUNITY FOR ANYONE SHAZ SAYS IS TOWN BASED ON FLAVOR is terrible. Because 1) culted said it 2) because that's kind of what we're used to from shaz and it will not cut it long-term and is a good place for scum to hide in.
kuroi - does nothing but drew an investigation or something from kuror0 so he's literally that bad. would be SCUM if not for our selfless hero kuror0 to save us from mislynches(?)
drealmerz - my man. the ate and go die needs to stop. You're a townread but when you make posts like the other page you make want to lynch you just to get you out of this game. So you're town but please. Work with us.

SCUM
Kuror0 - You're a very come-and-go player. Which isn't necessarily scummy but this game needs drive and you haven't really provided much of that.
Pine - Man, your play. I don't want to lynch you and CLERIC is super strong and holds me back like heck. Maybe I should reread WEREWOLF again and brush up on my PINE meta.
shadow - Same kind of no ripples play thus far.
culted - You're here. Then you're gone. You say great things and then you say things that instantly throw you back on the vig list.

Understandably, we have played through two of the biggest holidays of the year so yeah activity is hit and miss, I get it.

[Andrius]

UNVOTE

[Andrius]

Also sly and I aren't masons.

[Andrius]

I reread Curse of the Werewolf from two years ago and feel better about Pine.

[Andrius]

Townbloc go!
Culted/persi/andy/sly/pine/dreal and dunn until he gets vig'd or policy'd

The Townbloc I'm seeing is Pine, drealmerz, culted, Sky, Andy, and Shaziro. Scumread on Dunn and Shaddow. Jury's out on Persivul, I've gone back and forth on them. Unsure of the k-names.

PEdit: Drealmerz the answer to that goes beyond the scope of a phoneposting as I'm getting ready to shower and bed. If I don't answer you, remind me. I forget stuff when I'm tired.

No let's not call it a TOWNBLOC.
Because that implies everyone is a townread.

I'd rather VOTING BLOC because it doesn't imply we're all town.
There's good reason to put scumreads on a VOTING BLOC.

[Andrius]

Persivul is town, Pine.

[Andrius]

Pine.

[Andrius]

Just take this at my word for now eh?

[Andrius]

I was calling my play, bad, not yours.
I wouldn't be said if you died overnight even if you are likely town.

Also disagree that shadow should be investigated.
Assumes that there:
1) is an investigation
2) can investigate tonight
3) has shots remaining
etc etc etc

[Andrius]

FULL DISCLOSURE:

I received a message from someone overnight.

They basically told me that they have a similar role to Jason's but stronger and more.
Said they hope I'm a True Friend.
Capitalized letters were theirs.

While I appreciate the vote of confidence messaging me, I can't help shake the fact that this is all sorts of troublesome.

They specifically told me who it was, implying that they wanted to in what could have been an anonymous message.

Thoughts:

+This person can, presumably, both message and do their action in the night. Which is strong. Two actions one night, strong. Unless messaging is free.
+Which makes me instantly suspect scum from mod-side.
+If town, this person is somewhat of a protective role, due to the relation to Jason.
+Again, the mod-side argument is scum should also have a protective role.

Sly, you're talking about cologne.

I'm wondering if that's what this is.

between the messenger and pine I'm much more likely to believe that pine is scum.

Also, keep in mind that they could have fake identified themself through the anonymous message.

This is possible, but their tone/words makes me believe they are who they say they are.

You know what.
I think this confirms my TINFOIL. The messenger might be STRAHD. Could be a means of reaching a traitor that doesn't cost an action.

The messenger claimed to be

Spoiler:

drealmerz. Hence my confusion.

Shaziro I need your help.

Tell me all you know about pigeons.

If this wasn't me being overt about flavor I don't know how else to do it.

[Andrius]

Also sly and I aren't masons.

Did someone suggest that we are? If so, I missed it.

I reread Curse of the Werewolf from two years ago and feel better about Pine.

Since your vote hasn't changed, help me break through my obtusity. Are you saying, after your read you feel better that your vote's on Pine?

I made a joke about it.
And then figured it'd be best to not do so.

Uh, I unvoted a page or so ago.
Need to think on this.

No, I was saying that I feel better re: Pine being town.

This whole kerfuffle is just completely undesirable.

[Andrius]

or, ya know, he can speak with the dead because he is undead servant of Strahd and his fakeclaim he was given is cleric but he's a warlock or someshit

geezus shaz you're really hurting the game with all that shit if you're town

But it was culted going I'm just going to go along with Shaz' flavor junk.
I can see Shaz town here.
I can also see culted scum piggying off of Shaz.
He catches up infrequently and wallposts.

[Andrius]

Speak With Dead is a Cleric spell, vampires do not get it. Pine is town, Dreal is not.

Look, I appreciate your flavor knowledge and stuff like this.
As long as its not solely driving your reads we're good here.
Because you're ignoring all the mod-side design aspects here.

Let's suppose Strahd has a one-shot bulletproof. He could pass it off as a Self-protecting Cleric.
If Strahd can talk to the dead or some crap b/c vampire/undead, he could pass it off as Speak With Dead as a Cleric spell.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you this but thinking like this can be dangerous.

[Andrius]

Maybe I saw something in a reread that made me change my mind.

[Andrius]

The two are the same - if I just came out swinging a complete reversal without some justification someone would call me out for it. I did some work overnight and my read changed.

[Andrius]

You're not *actually* 100% town.
That'd be near impossible.
But close.

I didnt know you had a guarantee on culted.
But you have piqued my interest.

[Andrius]

Speak with dead doesn't make any damn sense as a scum power. They're the informed minority and gain nothing from talking to dead Town. Cure Wounds doesn't make sense for scum either.

I've used it before. shrug
Healing spells are totally useful to scum.
Didn't we agree that Creature was a vig kill?
Hence the possibility that a Scum Doc would be useful.

[Andrius]

Also, what the fuck is the good of scum speaking with dead town? To feed misinformation? To do that, they would just pretend to have the ability to do it, why would they -actually- have the ability?

Why would you give TOWN the ability to speak with the dead?
Get investigative results from dead townies, get results from any power role once they're dead.
I mean its a BIT mitigated in this game since people flip with their Role PMs, so we don't NEED to ask what they've been doing each night.

I mean its not TOP TIER power but it has its uses.
Also depends largely on the player.
I'd have a circus with a neighborize-the-dead ability.

[Andrius]

You're not *actually* 100% town.
That'd be near impossible.
But close.

I didnt know you had a guarantee on culted.
But you have piqued my interest.

If you believe the claims and assume scum aren't conf-towning people, then kuror, kuroi, me, and culted are all town. With creature's flip, there are probably 3 scum remaining, and they're in:

Pine
shaddowez
drealmerz7
Shaziro
Dunnstral
SlySly
Andrius

How the crap did kuror0 get into that list?
Still haven't seen where you mentioned the guarantee.

I'd still not cry if culted died overnight.

[Andrius]

Oh by the way.
Hey drealmerz.
Can you messenger and track in the same night?

Follow-up question is then: why would you message me over track someone last night?
Because one is far more useful than the other imo.



And no, I don't actually care if you disagree. I just want to know if you can or not.

[Andrius]

Andrius, convince me Persivul is Town. I don't see it. The only benefit of the doubt I was giving him was incredulity that scum would be so doggedly aggressive

PEdit: Mod provided fake claims are a thing. Granting actual powers to accompany them isn't. Besides, I'm pretty resigned to getting lynched, barring a reversal of fortune. So with my Townflip about to happen, my intentions are about to be proven pure. This abject resistance to engaging with that is incredibly frustrating.

There's only a couple of hours to go til my self-imposed deadline to use this power. I need a reasonable amount of time to actually talk with Creature or Jason.

fff
I don't think I'll be voting you.
If you don't die today I'd rather you be protecting someone tonight over communing with a dead player for your action.

[Andrius]

I mean, yeah, town can know cop results or track results, but that is much less useful to scum is it not? "Oh, X got a cop result that proves my scumbuddy is scum, but died before he could reveal it/crumb it. Neat. Well that's buried with him so MOVING SWIFTLY ALONG!

There is value in pretending to be town.

[Andrius]

And perhaps uncharacteristically aggressive

Yeah, the first "too pussy" struck me as uncharacteristic, and now the double down.

VOTE: Culted

^Guaranteed town.

Ok look.
Saying "guaranteed town" without extra words and "guaranteed town pls trust me role stuff" or "guaranteed town I'm a cop I investigated him N1 he's town" are three different things.

[Andrius]

Its just like going "Persivul is 100% town".
Instead of: "so I reread the game last night since Jason flipped town and he was a scumread of mine but is town so I looked at persivul overnight in reevaluation and hey I think he's town now after rereading some".


pedit: Oh sweet.

[Andrius]

Honestly, I'd probably wait to see who dies tonight (N2) because they're far more likely to be useful than Creature/Jason at this point.
IMO

[Andrius]

I mean.
Given the vague claims from a number of people, I think it'd be best to hold it.
I'm against lynching you.

[Andrius]

^ In response to Pine.

[Andrius]

POWER DOES NOT CONFIRM ALIGNMENT

[Andrius]

Messenger can be Strahd-aligned to try and find the traitor?
The fact it comes from a PIGEON can be immaterial if there is a Strahd-aligned Adventurer.

I'm not saying THIS IS THE CASE but THIS IS A COUNTERPOINT

[Andrius]

If it HAD to be between Persivul and shaddow I'd go shaddow.

[Andrius]

There's value in pretending to be town.

Its like, you see a Fruit Vendor and immediately assume it can't be scum because its useless to them?