Newbie 1764: Wind Game Over

[Accountant]

He's stated multiple times in thread that he's not completely sure of his read on you, this could be an explanation of why it looks like he doesn't care/seems unsure. This is a valid point, he says "w/e because he can still be scum", now I'd prefer for a less pressure filled environment to question him in rather than someone voting him and questioning him at the same time.

I don't buy that his weak on me is read. He's been fairly stubborn about saying that I am scum, but doesn't back it up with actions.

[Accountant]

read on me is weak*

[Mewtaph]

I get that "Mewtaph did this last time and he was town", but you haven't showed me:
a) Why this is exclusive to town - ie. why this is done as town but not done as scum
b) Why you feel it's a consistent pattern enough to give hard townreads on rather than a one off thing.

a) It's not.
b) It's not, I just am already in the mindset of him being town prior to reading it and even as I'm typing here. I'll admit that I'm wrong in saying this is townie by any definition of the word, but for me it doesn't register as scum pings all over the place, I notice the inconsistencies and eyebrow raising posts and I don't think "Wtf lynch this now the scum pings are real", I think "Looks like scum, but I've done that before: why not get clarification first?". Because I've done similar things before/been thought of as scum without legitimately being reached out to, may be why I am thinking nydus of town here. FMPOV if I consider my anecdotal evidence it helps town a lot more to dial it down a bit on the accusations here and see if anything changes.

[Mewtaph]

He's stated multiple times in thread that he's not completely sure of his read on you, this could be an explanation of why it looks like he doesn't care/seems unsure. This is a valid point, he says "w/e because he can still be scum", now I'd prefer for a less pressure filled environment to question him in rather than someone voting him and questioning him at the same time.

I don't buy that his weak on me is read. He's been fairly stubborn about saying that I am scum, but doesn't back it up with actions.

Doesn't the second sentence provide an answer of sorts to your first statement? He doesn't back it up with actions because his read on you is weak. Stubbornness is scummy yes, but it looks like he dropped it in 248, so it's NAI, and if anything, a town indicator. You can decide to not buy that his read on you is weak, and continue pushing him, but I don't see the reasoning of getting the problems you have with nydus sorted out first in a more toned down environment and consider his POV? Okay, so consider this, if nydus is town, will he really be able to sway your mind, or Ramcius' for that matter, if this is the kind of environment he has to defend himself in? No, and that's where I come in and say "stop".

[Mewtaph]

@nydushermain: Need thoughts and reads from you within your next few posts please. Holding off on my own read list until you post yours.

[Charloux]

188-He looks a bit agitated since he is using caps, so his following posts shouldn't be taken with face value. Small inconsistencies should be ignored
195-Don't think scum would go ahead with an explanation about something that they weren't asked to do.
Yeah, caps mean he is agitated. like when he says there are 3 scum in 196; Nyd, do you mean to say that you are okay with lynching a null and scummier players from your reads today?
I'm too lazy for the back and forth talk analysis.
Accountants case would normally make sense, but Ny's uniqueness has been ongoing for the whole game so i don't buy it; If he is faking it, he will show an opening sooner or later. I don't agree with his case(?) on Accountant at all though. Ny doesn't look prideful, so i don't think he is just pushing his read because he is just stubborn. I think he really thinks he is right...

[Charloux]

I still want to hear something from DBW. He is the only person without a flavor right now.

[Ramcius]

If we continue this way, we end up with 9 townies in here, since seems everyone is town in this game So maybe start suggesting lynch targets, not just defending everyone, and i say that to all, cause deadline is coming, and i still don't like Nys, nothing make sense to me from town POV, he changes his position all the time, first he say we shouldn't lynch DBW (ignoring me and Charloux clearly stating we just want DBW talk, not lynch), going same even after i explain several times we not going lynch DBW, and he was lining lynches there, after he agreed and said both mafia are in 3 lurking people (weird statement from town), he's case on Accountant make no sense, something he found in other Accountant game, and we should now go and find that game, cause he didn't said what was different in that game from other 9 Accountant town games, and why here it's similar to that scum game, he inconsistent in all he do, yes, he said he changes his minds all time, but he was holding on DBW lynch idea so hard despite telling him no one is going lynch

[Accountant]

Because I've done similar things before/been thought of as scum without legitimately being reached out to, may be why I am thinking nydus of town here.

Okay, I'm fine with buying into this for now. Not enough to unvote, but enough to talk about other stuff. It's all a rehash at this point anyway and there's more than one scum to catch.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Just reading through page 8, ny seems to get really defensive when people begin to question what he's saying, which makes me a little suspicious. In particular, post #188 feels kind of scummy to me. Accountant wrote out a fairly detailed post and says some things about ny's posts which he obviously doesn't like, and so he just goes and addresses it with "lol what". I don't like his use of caps too much either, but that just seems to be something he regularly does, so I don't read it very much.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Also, Ramcius, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say there. How does the fact that he's changing his opinion make him scum? It's perfectly reasonable for him to change his reads as time goes on.

[Ramcius]

Also, Ramcius, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say there. How does the fact that he's changing his opinion make him scum? It's perfectly reasonable for him to change his reads as time goes on.

Yes, as time goes on, but he changed opinion on you without any good reason, at first he was against your lynch (which wasn't planned) and after he lay back and say "ok, lynch DBW, i just want see him flip", i could accept, if you came and said something, so he was ok with your lynch, but you didn't, and it's only Nys, who want you dead, and Gamma, but he forgot why scumread you, so, i don't count him

[Gamma Emerald]

The way ny used meta doesn't feel like a scum use, also the fact he went back after realizing his analysis was off.

You're going to have been more specific than that. This is very very vague.

Scum wouldn't fact check again like he did.

[mhsmith0]

Van_Veacesalv_Dulca has been prodded.
Pepchoninga has not responded to prod and will be replaced.

[mhsmith0]

Votecount 1.10

nydushermain (2)

Accountant , Ramcius ,

DeathByWobbuffet (2)

Gamma Emerald , Charloux ,

Gamma Emerald (1)

Mewtaph ,

Charloux (1)

Van_Veacesalv_Dulca ,

Accountant (1)

nydushermain ,

Not Voting (2)

Pepchoninga , DeathByWobbuffet ,

Day one deadline is Sunday December 25, 11 AM PST. (expired on 2016-12-25 12:00:00)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch!

[/size]

[nydushermain]

Why he made his first post concerning DBW in the first place. If you look at the first post he makes on DBW, it looks and feels like a standalone that he'd leave by itself if you didn't vote him straight afterwards.

Okay I think we're talking past each other a little bit at this point.

Let me summarize my case.

WHY IS NYDUSHER SCUM:
- lines up lynches
- says he wants to lynch me over DBW but looks like he doesn't really care
- tries to pass off what is essentially a gut read as a legitimate read

Now, your turn.

1. Not lining up lynches, gave a list of people I'd lynch in order which is a way in video mafia of saying "these are my top scum"
2. I do want to lynch you over DBW but it's alright that he gets lynched fmpov
3. It was a legitimate read that turned into ALSO being a gut read on top of it

[nydushermain]

He's stated multiple times in thread that he's not completely sure of his read on you, this could be an explanation of why it looks like he doesn't care/seems unsure. This is a valid point, he says "w/e because he can still be scum", now I'd prefer for a less pressure filled environment to question him in rather than someone voting him and questioning him at the same time.

I don't buy that his weak on me is read. He's been fairly stubborn about saying that I am scum, but doesn't back it up with actions.

Okay sir, if you're actually mafia, constantly saying I don't back it up with actions is going to make me your absolute worst nightmare because I'm this close to thread diving you again and flooding this game with posts from other games and how differently you play in them.

[Gamma Emerald]

That would be EVERYONE'S worst nightmare. Please don't spam the thread.

[nydushermain]

Also, Ramcius, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say there. How does the fact that he's changing his opinion make him scum? It's perfectly reasonable for him to change his reads as time goes on.

Yes, as time goes on, but he changed opinion on you without any good reason, at first he was against your lynch (which wasn't planned) and after he lay back and say "ok, lynch DBW, i just want see him flip", i could accept, if you came and said something, so he was ok with your lynch, but you didn't, and it's only Nys, who want you dead, and Gamma, but he forgot why scumread you, so, i don't count him

Because I thought about it. Things change when I first read things versus when I think of things.

[nydushermain]

If we continue this way, we end up with 9 townies in here, since seems everyone is town in this game So maybe start suggesting lynch targets, not just defending everyone, and i say that to all, cause deadline is coming, and i still don't like Nys, nothing make sense to me from town POV, he changes his position all the time, first he say we shouldn't lynch DBW (ignoring me and Charloux clearly stating we just want DBW talk, not lynch), going same even after i explain several times we not going lynch DBW, and he was lining lynches there, after he agreed and said both mafia are in 3 lurking people (weird statement from town), he's case on Accountant make no sense, something he found in other Accountant game, and we should now go and find that game, cause he didn't said what was different in that game from other 9 Accountant town games, and why here it's similar to that scum game, he inconsistent in all he do, yes, he said he changes his minds all time, but he was holding on DBW lynch idea so hard despite telling him no one is going lynch

I didn't agree that there were 2 mafia in the lurking people -_- . You asked me if there could be and I said yes. I feel like there's a language barrier here and you're just not understanding exactly what I'm saying.

[nydushermain]

I get that "Mewtaph did this last time and he was town", but you haven't showed me:
a) Why this is exclusive to town - ie. why this is done as town but not done as scum
b) Why you feel it's a consistent pattern enough to give hard townreads on rather than a one off thing.

a) It's not.
b) It's not, I just am already in the mindset of him being town prior to reading it and even as I'm typing here. I'll admit that I'm wrong in saying this is townie by any definition of the word, but for me it doesn't register as scum pings all over the place, I notice the inconsistencies and eyebrow raising posts and I don't think "Wtf lynch this now the scum pings are real", I think "Looks like scum, but I've done that before: why not get clarification first?". Because I've done similar things before/been thought of as scum without legitimately being reached out to, may be why I am thinking nydus of town here. FMPOV if I consider my anecdotal evidence it helps town a lot more to dial it down a bit on the accusations here and see if anything changes.

Reading this post kind of made me interested. So I think currently that Ramcius is town and he thinks of me as scum. I don't actually agree with anything that Ramcius is saying about me because I feel like he's taking the wrong meaning of everything I say. Why do I mention Ramcius? Mostly because mewtaph said that he was looking at me as town already, and now it kind of seems like because of that, he read everything I wrote in the argument in a towny mindset and kind of molded his reads to confirm that. Similarly, I feel like Ramcius decided that I was scum and decided to mold everything I said in that mindset as well. That's not actually a read on anything but it's interesting to see both perspectives. Random thought.

[nydushermain]

ramcius
mewtaph
gamma

DWB

charloux = accountant???

I'm neglecting to read the person getting replaced and the person prodded because honestly, I their replacement (if active) will just do a lot more and be more indicative of their reads.

ramcius

: Ramcius just feels like arrogant town to me. Feels like a town who thinks that he caught a mafia even though his reading comprehension could use a little work. 93 also solidifies him being town for me.

mewtaph

: This could be an absolute pocket but I feel like mewtaph is describing me to a tee. I already had him as light town for the way he spoke early game but it feels like there's a possibility that he has TMI. It's just too perfect how much he knows how I'm playing but that could also be because like I noted prior to this, that he started off going into reading the arguments, that I'm town. Either way, consider me pocketed.

Gamma

: The interesting thing is, I found gamma scummy before the arguments but I feel like the way he's defended me is so odd from a scum perspective. Pretty much, two of the other most active players, ramcius and accountant are going on me, and gamma decides to defend me? He even goes so far to say that if there's a 1v1 between me and accountant that he'd vote accountant? I put him on light town for now because of this but I'll write something up near the end of this post as a remark.

DWB

: DWB seems overwhelmed with posts. NAI.

charloux

: I can't decide where to place Charloux this game. I've had him as scum, then as neutral, and now he's just back at scum. I think that there's a fair chance that Charloux just won't ever make it into my town circle.

I don't buy that your town read on me was so strong that you'd be willing to risk tipping me off to the fact that he might be a PR. Furthermore, you indicated earlier that such a mentality was in fact indicative of scum and not PR.

No, you are null to me. And why would i say something like: His personality is indicative of him being scum or a PR? What would happen if i did? I needed a second opinion and you looked like a good choice.

This was the last read that charloux gave on accountant. A null read.

188-He looks a bit agitated since he is using caps, so his following posts shouldn't be taken with face value. Small inconsistencies should be ignored
195-Don't think scum would go ahead with an explanation about something that they weren't asked to do.
Yeah, caps mean he is agitated. like when he says there are 3 scum in 196; Nyd, do you mean to say that you are okay with lynching a null and scummier players from your reads today?
I'm too lazy for the back and forth talk analysis.
Accountants case would normally make sense, but Ny's uniqueness has been ongoing for the whole game so i don't buy it; If he is faking it, he will show an opening sooner or later. I don't agree with his case(?) on Accountant at all though. Ny doesn't look prideful, so i don't think he is just pushing his read because he is just stubborn. I think he really thinks he is right...

You read EVERYTHING in the arguments and you don't have an opinion on accountant other than to say that you think my reasons are incorrect? I feel like it's odd that you're focusing on only me after all that and not looking at at least assigning accountant scum or town. You can't possibly have accountant null after all that. Even by gut or tone.

accountant

: I still think that everything I've said about accountant stands but I'm open to being wrong. I feel like I'm put in a place right now where we're almost forced to stubbornly call eachother mafia. If you read post 295, it also applies to accountant. I feel like we could just be seeing eachother as scum and letting confirmation bias get in the way.


Remarks: If accountant and I are both town, then accountant and ramcius accusing me of lining up lynches has ironically lined up lynches for the mafia because if either of us dies, I'm pretty sure the other is next. I've noticed that I'm townreading some of my staunchest defenders and part of the reason I think is emotional attachment I've built up because people were definitely going aggro on me last night and I think the relief of having people realize I'm town has made me think that the people saying these things are also town. In a couple days, I think I'll be more suitable for giving another go at reading them. I could totally see them being scum and doing this to just set up a ___ vs ____ scenario where both people are town.

Remark Remark: I'm too lazy to edit the post but I actually think mewtaph is my hardest town now UNLESS accountant is scum.

In 261, mewtaph says he thinks this is a TvT and that we should stop it. If we are both town, I feel like defending both of us is a horrible play as scum because he's taking away free lynches and discord within the town. HOWEVER. In the case where accountant is scum, I think mewtaph as scum would know that if I get lynched here, accountant looks extremely scummy after my role flip so he needs to find a way to calm it down and try to make both of us move on.

[Pepchoninga]

I'm sorry for not being as active as I should be. I will read on everything (You sure don't make it easy on me) and will try and give my thoughts.

[Ramcius]

Well, i don't think Charloux is scum, don't want lynch accountant just now, we can sort it later (very likely mafia will take care of it, if he's town), so from your list only DBW, and since he still not want do shit, i think we can give rope to him

VOTE: DBW

[Pepchoninga]

I believe that what Accountant is doing is provoking people to show there true self. Questions in mafia are not asked for people to get answers but to see reactions. Ways they answer are hints to who they are. Tho this can also be used as a great protection. Xe almost talks like all his actions till this point are all made in the benefit of town. While other members are showing some motives and are even demonstating there playstyles, Accountant is being calm and collected, asking questions and then leaving them at that, without taking actions or persuing people who he belives are not town to further pressure them.

FoS: Accountant

Has Accountant's posts 69 and 83 eased your suspicions or "FoS" on Accountant in any way? Why/why not?

I will have to say yes and no. While his post 83 did seem convinsing enough, post 69 definetely seems to come from a criminal mind. He still tryis to balance it with his neutral playing but this tendency to analyze everything in the way he does in still not giving me good vibes.