Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Titus]

Lapsa, you want to talk about anyone but Tywin (not Tywin out of respect for Cabd)?

[Tywin Lannister]

FWIW I'm not voting for Tywin today. He's very obviously frustrated railroaded town.

Shame on those of you that are taking him as scum. He can be town who found scum-titus or town that mistook town-titus for scum titus but the frustration and emotion is genuine town with a capital T.

Tywin, let's chat real quick. A large part of your Titus case is that the logic Titus is using is so ~wrong~ it has to come from scum, right?

I have a couple min, so I'll respond here. Can't read it all, and Sonia, I think your post deserves a longer look than I have atm, but I'll do it when I get a chance in a few hours or so.

Cabd: pretty much, yes. I see Titus as a strong player, so her using really bad theories, constantly repeating this 'liar!' theme, her jumping back and forth to whomever seems like an easy target, and generally refusing to even think about whether or not these players she calls scum may be town (which would derail her entire theory and 'scum hunting' efforts) just looks so bad that it must be from scum. That's my belief. It's day 1 and she's railroading 4 specific players into a scum team she fabricated without any reasoning, and the real aspect of it is that maybe 2 players get subbed in or out solely based on me being scum. So when I flip town, everything she's done in the game becomes useless. That doesn't look like a townie truly trying to sort anyone. I just don't see it.

Okay so.. what if I told you that titus is known for making absolutely no sense whatsoever from the outside perspective; as town? Like... is so well known for it around here that she has a custom moderator-granted user title honoring that fact? I know it's not "ideal town play" as you and I see it, but play this game is internally consistent with Titus logic. (And no, throwing your hands up and wanting to die doesn't count as a response; you're stuck in this thing with me like it or not)

If that is the case, then maybe she is town and I need to reevaluate. I asked for some kind of meta about her I think multiple times when writing my thoughts about her theories, but they've been ignored until this post. She sounds very aware of this meta about her though, so why continue it? She may be able to manipulate it to look her normal 'town' self while being scum. Nero pointed out similarities between her last scum game with him and this one, so I'm not completely sold on her being town, but I will take it into consideration and focus elsewhere for now. I still get massive scum vibes from her, but you being one of my top TRs saying this gives it weight IMO.

[Lapsa]

Lapsa, you want to talk about anyone but Tywin (not Tywin out of respect for Cabd)?

Townread Tywin around spaghetti.

What else assumptions have you made?

[Tywin Lannister]

3. Sonia pops up out of nowhere, sheep's Titus by calling me scum, and her reason is also sheeped by giving her reason as my 'it's only fair' statement. Zero originality there. That's some blatant sheeping going on.



Sonia: why haven't you asked me any questions? Also, why did you sheep Titus exactly to the T? Do you have no original thought? I find that sheep on atrocious reasonings are almost always scum. What do you think? Also, when ssbm_Kyouko pointed out your blatant buddying with Titus in post #400, you came back in #407 calling him 'not town' for no reason. It was another OMGUS shade throw with zero follow through. You haven't followed any lead or anything you claim to be scummy with any actual questions whatsoever. Also, you claim my post #303 is 'scummy as fuck.' Please explain what in it is scummy. You said it was overly defensive and manipulative. What was I defensive about? Who was I defending against? How does that make any sense whatsoever? I joined in with Elibirn to get Uzi to answer why he thought Elibirn was scum. He never gave a good reason, but regardless, what was there for me to be defensive about? I wasn't being attacked, so why call it defensive? Also, how was it manipulative in a scummy way? Do you know what 'scummy' even is, or only when you're town and not using contrived reasoning to throw shade on players? Why are you chainsaw defending Uzi here? You AND Titus both highly dislike Uzi being questioned. Both of you have attacked me now over me forcing Uzi to answer a basic question. Neither of you seem to have any real questions for me though. Now THAT is 'scummy as fuck' (to quote your own words).

Okay you're clearly not reading the thread what so ever you need a bit more coffee I came back in the day having to catch up I saw your post that I disliked (get to that in a moment) and I called you out on it also I said your post was scummy but the thing you forgot to address was I said I liked your other posts that's why I didn't vote you because that was the only post I had a bit of trouble with I wasn't sheeping Titus I didn't even see her call you scum I don't even know what post ssbn called me out on the post in question you were defending yourself it was over defensive on your actions like "don't look at me it isn't my fault on this!" I don't ever omgus unless it's for a joke purpose "how does it make sense" you ask because it makes sense what type of question is that Also I'm not defending Uzi I don't have a read on him what I AM doing is calling out your shitty reasoning in that post I know what scumhunting and being scummy is smart one I don't have a question for you because there's nothing to be asked would you like some RQS? I saw a post I disliked and I commented it you clearly don't even know what sheeping is just because 2 players dislike a post doesn't make it sheeping buddy

it's a bit of a mess cause I just typed my thoughts out.
I do think Tywin is obv town btw

On a 10 min break RN with a couple min left, so if I don't answer all of this RN, give me time.

I saw your posts after the fact saying you basically disliked only that one post, but in the context of the time frame, I don't believe you said those things previous to my post above. Due to that, I thought you were just sheeping a bad read from Titus. While I still don't agree that my original post was scummy, I understand that you/others might have so I'll just grant the point. Idk what to say beyond that though, because I really don't agree with it being scummy in the first place. It seems like a grasp at straws in my biased opinion.

Look at it through the lens of my perspective, knowing I'm town, and what would you say there? If I grasped onto a post that you found nothing wrong with and called it scummy, what would your response be? Add to that and say I agreed with a player you thought was scum. In the context of that, prior to your follow up posts, would you possibly have insinuated there may be a connection? I've since moved you to a TR, but at the time, I saw it as sheeping already bad reasoning. Granted, I still don't see that posts as scummy, so the reasoning behind it made me assume there was something more there than there may have been. Make sense?

[Cabd]

I'm not completely sold on her being town

I'm not 100% either, for the record. But when a large part of your case stems from anger towards a play style that you don't have context behind, I feel the need to let cooler heads prevail. I( think it's fair to evaluate both possibilities; pop your head out from your tunnel and see what you think. I know it's not something anyone wants to hear; but usually when you get a scumread you tend to filter information and perception towards confirming that feeling instead of re-evaluating any bias.

What is your case assuming that you write off her play style as not alignment indicative? Lay that out and see if what is left is still convincing to you; and to others?

[Cabd]

Titus: Ignoring tywin's positions in regards to you/your posts; what else is in your case? Lay that out and see if what is left is still convincing to you; and to others?

[Cabd]

Side note: Imma be the saddest person on earth if this is scum theater. Like suicide watch levels of sad.

[Alisae]

Let's play catch-up a bit.

Scum don't have daytalk in normal games unless it is either announced by the mod in the setup or there is an encryptor. I think.

out of curiousity, did the mod announce daytalk after this post or just no one read ruleset?

After.

[Alisae]

alisea is bascially saying that shes flip flopping because of tywin and that is just lold

I'll fucking confirm this. I am flip floping at the moment. I don't know what the fuck to do. I don't know who the fuck is what. I dunno what's real. I dunno what's fake. I dunno my gender even. What operating system is this toaster even fucking using? Is it fucking Vista? Point is I fucking snapped.
But I am keeping my vote on Tywin. I'm done flipflopping. Unless something else happens, I'm keeping my vote on tywin.
I'm keeping my vote on tywin.
All of these circles, make a square.
All of these circles, make a square.
Just calm down. It's gonna be okay.

Alisea you have no reason to be, thats what we are saying so clam down, you arent responsible of the votes

I just feel so fucked and toyed with and manipulated. At this point I completely forgot about everyone else. I think I just need to take a few minutes to go fucking chill. A warm bath sounds nice. Or a shower. I'ma go do that, and calm down.

It's nice tho that you're both telling me to calm down. I feel like if you two were scum ywall would have wanted to keep me in this panic state. My strongest town reads at the moment.
Thank you. Honestly.

Look at all this faked frustration

What makes you think it's fake?

[Lapsa]

@Titus Tywin reminds me of bji from 1652 Sweet Dreams

[Titus]

Titus: Ignoring tywin's positions in regards to you/your posts; what else is in your case? Lay that out and see if what is left is still convincing to you; and to others?

Cabd, Tywin's ISO is nearly excusively lying about me/AJ, slipping Gamma is town (one post only), and trying to fake towntell. There is no way to divorce the lies and case him. That's removing his entire ISO.

[Transcend]

Sub out.

Sorry to do this, but the game exploded with lots of long posts and I'm kinda busy with life. Apologies.

[Tywin Lannister]

Titus: Ignoring tywin's positions in regards to you/your posts; what else is in your case? Lay that out and see if what is left is still convincing to you; and to others?

Cabd, Tywin's ISO is nearly excusively lying about me/AJ, slipping Gamma is town (one post only), and trying to fake towntell. There is no way to divorce the lies and case him. That's removing his entire ISO.

This is complete misrepresentation of me, purposely, and in your own description of what lying is, you are doing it right here. Due to this, you should lynch yourself. The case you have against me is clearly mirrored from your own play.

All joking aside, I think you're seriously misjudging the entire game to the point where you're unable to look past me no matter what. When I flip town, you'll still claim some stupid excuse as if what you are claiming about me was somehow true and it's MY fault you are blinded by your own conf bias. That's exactly how these things go, and I'm completely certain that it's what will happen here. You'll spout off all this crap you misrepresent me on and claim the same false narrative even after I flip town, and that is what's going to piss me off more than anything. You won't learn a thing from my flip, and then you'll drone on and on apparently in every game you play with the same illogical, and completely fabricated cases no matter what the outcome. I don't agree with your play style in any case, and if it were someone else you railroaded into being scum regardless of evidence to the contrary, I'd count you off as a detriment to town and/or scum. Anti-town isn't any better than being actual scum, because you'll go against your win con just to feel justified in your obvious mislynches. Your entire theory is based around a townie being scum. I really will try to listen to Cabd and pretend that your play is normal for you as town, but it's seriously not going to go well for you when I do flip. You'll have no legitimate reads and your case will look completely fabricated (since it is).

[Gamma Emerald]

Yo
I came to 30 pages and I tryharded my way through
You can do the same.

[Transcend]

Na

[Cabd]

Nah I respect the wish of a player to replace out; it's perfectly fine. I used to have feelings to the contrary but hen I got married and a house and a full time job.

See you on some other plane of existence, transcend.

Please do post any final thoughts you have before you take off?

[xSoniaNevermindx]

3. Sonia pops up out of nowhere, sheep's Titus by calling me scum, and her reason is also sheeped by giving her reason as my 'it's only fair' statement. Zero originality there. That's some blatant sheeping going on.



Sonia: why haven't you asked me any questions? Also, why did you sheep Titus exactly to the T? Do you have no original thought? I find that sheep on atrocious reasonings are almost always scum. What do you think? Also, when ssbm_Kyouko pointed out your blatant buddying with Titus in post #400, you came back in #407 calling him 'not town' for no reason. It was another OMGUS shade throw with zero follow through. You haven't followed any lead or anything you claim to be scummy with any actual questions whatsoever. Also, you claim my post #303 is 'scummy as fuck.' Please explain what in it is scummy. You said it was overly defensive and manipulative. What was I defensive about? Who was I defending against? How does that make any sense whatsoever? I joined in with Elibirn to get Uzi to answer why he thought Elibirn was scum. He never gave a good reason, but regardless, what was there for me to be defensive about? I wasn't being attacked, so why call it defensive? Also, how was it manipulative in a scummy way? Do you know what 'scummy' even is, or only when you're town and not using contrived reasoning to throw shade on players? Why are you chainsaw defending Uzi here? You AND Titus both highly dislike Uzi being questioned. Both of you have attacked me now over me forcing Uzi to answer a basic question. Neither of you seem to have any real questions for me though. Now THAT is 'scummy as fuck' (to quote your own words).

Okay you're clearly not reading the thread what so ever you need a bit more coffee I came back in the day having to catch up I saw your post that I disliked (get to that in a moment) and I called you out on it also I said your post was scummy but the thing you forgot to address was I said I liked your other posts that's why I didn't vote you because that was the only post I had a bit of trouble with I wasn't sheeping Titus I didn't even see her call you scum I don't even know what post ssbn called me out on the post in question you were defending yourself it was over defensive on your actions like "don't look at me it isn't my fault on this!" I don't ever omgus unless it's for a joke purpose "how does it make sense" you ask because it makes sense what type of question is that Also I'm not defending Uzi I don't have a read on him what I AM doing is calling out your shitty reasoning in that post I know what scumhunting and being scummy is smart one I don't have a question for you because there's nothing to be asked would you like some RQS? I saw a post I disliked and I commented it you clearly don't even know what sheeping is just because 2 players dislike a post doesn't make it sheeping buddy

it's a bit of a mess cause I just typed my thoughts out.
I do think Tywin is obv town btw

On a 10 min break RN with a couple min left, so if I don't answer all of this RN, give me time.

I saw your posts after the fact saying you basically disliked only that one post, but in the context of the time frame, I don't believe you said those things previous to my post above. Due to that, I thought you were just sheeping a bad read from Titus. While I still don't agree that my original post was scummy, I understand that you/others might have so I'll just grant the point. Idk what to say beyond that though, because I really don't agree with it being scummy in the first place. It seems like a grasp at straws in my biased opinion.

Look at it through the lens of my perspective, knowing I'm town, and what would you say there? If I grasped onto a post that you found nothing wrong with and called it scummy, what would your response be? Add to that and say I agreed with a player you thought was scum. In the context of that, prior to your follow up posts, would you possibly have insinuated there may be a connection? I've since moved you to a TR, but at the time, I saw it as sheeping already bad reasoning. Granted, I still don't see that posts as scummy, so the reasoning behind it made me assume there was something more there than there may have been. Make sense?

I think I understand as much as I'm gonna yeah that makes sense to me thank you

[Transcend]

I don't have any final thoughts because i haven't read this game at all lol

[Tywin Lannister]

That being said, I will look elsewhere and let others sort this mess however they see fit. I will even agree to my own lynch if it somehow helps town get info, but if the info is only to see that Titus is railroading a townie and completely blinded by conf bias, then I don't see the point.

@Titus: what will you do if/when I flip town? What information will you have gained? What backup plan do you have if I'm a mislynch? Do you have one, or are you positive I'm scum? If you're positive, and I flip town, then what happens? Will you agree that you railroaded a towbie for no reason and that it looks extremely scummy on your part? Be honest. There's no way you're 100% certain, but if so, then I truly wonder what you'll say/do after I flip town.

[Titus]

Tywin, This is again, why you need to die. There is not a single misrepresentation in my entire ISO. You said I asked you no questions. That was wrong. You were shown it was wrong. You doubled down on the fiction. You're also immediately discrediting any kind of post I make. Your posts with Uzi felt fake. You tried to create the impression i thought it was a mega scumtell. (Tone isn't a scumtell, just an indicator). Until you actually tell the truth and do analysis, you need to die.

Given the extremely low likelihood of you being capable of such, given your likely pm, there is not much to say here. Either you lie and die, or be honest and live. No less than 3 players see you as a known liar (me, Gamma, and ssm) so your attempts to paint me as wrong/bad/lying/scum will not work.

[Titus]

That being said, I will look elsewhere and let others sort this mess however they see fit. I will even agree to my own lynch if it somehow helps town get info, but if the info is only to see that Titus is railroading a townie and completely blinded by conf bias, then I don't see the point.

@Titus: what will you do if/when I flip town? What information will you have gained? What backup plan do you have if I'm a mislynch? Do you have one, or are you positive I'm scum? If you're positive, and I flip town, then what happens? Will you agree that you railroaded a towbie for no reason and that it looks extremely scummy on your part? Be honest. There's no way you're 100% certain, but if so, then I truly wonder what you'll say/do after I flip town.

If you'll flip town, someone died who cannot read even basic mod announcements, so I have zero hope of anything you said bring useful.

[Titus]

Nah I respect the wish of a player to replace out; it's perfectly fine. I used to have feelings to the contrary but hen I got married and a house and a full time job.

See you on some other plane of existence, transcend.

Please do post any final thoughts you have before you take off?

This. I use this to help in my job, but many don't.

[Tywin Lannister]

Yo
I came to 30 pages and I tryharded my way through
You can do the same.

I caught up with 30 pages last night, then went to bed and there's another 15 when I woke up. I'm not caught up past like page 36 or something. This game is moving too fast for even my liking, and I hate dead/slow games. It went way past the sweet spot long ago. I'm guessing pine will replace out too.

[Cabd]

Okay: Titus; assuming for a second tywin is town; does your pick for the "other" parts of the scumteam change? Who is your top suspect going into day two if tywin is lynched flips VT and I get shot overnight?

Tywin; who is your highest non-titus pick for scum right now?

[Aj The Epic]

Alisae and Kyouko need to be revisited. That should be the next course of action. So far, I've been happy with how this day is progressing, so I think bouncing onward for now is worth while. Both Kyouko and Alisae have been suspect in the last few pages for various reasons and out of the list of people available to be looked into, these two make the most sense for scum.