Newbie 1765 | URW | Endgame

[FancyPants]

That's not at all a guaranteed assumption, maybe we have protective roles.

[LicketyQuickety]

Based on logic, R can be BP, Tracker or Doc.

R only dies if they are Doc. It depends on the Scum team if they want to go out on a limb and try and NK the Doc claim. Ofc there might be enough info itt to determine R's exact role if there is a RBer in the game.

I don't like the situation at all. There is too much possibility that R claiming PR will keep R in the game till end game. My spidey sense is tingling and I don't like it.

I will ISO both Nacho and R and see what happens.

P-Edit: yes, and a possibility of BP as well. Part of the reason I wanted R to claim is to eliminate WIFOM surrounding the role.

[Plotinus]

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Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Superhans

(L-4): TheDominator37

Rautherdir

(L-5): FancyPants

TheDominator37

(L-3): Nachomamma8, Rautherdir

Nachomamma8

(L-4): LicketyQuickety

Not voting

(5): Lovesick, toblerone187, ConnorJC, Superhans, FancyPants

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(expired on 2016-12-30 14:00:00)

.

[LicketyQuickety]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

I don't agree with this.
I don't think that self-voting yourself is scummy; most things are about the intention behind them and at the end of the day scum don't really have that much reason to vote for yourself. I do think that self-votes can generate discussion; they are a thing that confuses people and when people are confused they tend to talk. Whether the content generated is meaningful is a different story but typically content is generated.

However, the reason I didn't vote for TheDominator37 is because we need that conversation to happen. A bandwagon on day 1 does almost nothing if we aren't actually talking.

I don't really understand what you're saying here.

You think Dom is the scummiest due to the self-vote, and you want to vote him. However, you're not voting him because people haven't talked enough to get a wagon going? Is that correct?

So, Nacho never comes out and says anything is actually Scummy or Townie, barring one exception: Myself.

I'll try and find the quote.

[LicketyQuickety]

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

Well, you made a post that looked sketchy (in particular, by pretending to have knowledge of a cop in the game) in order to generate information. That is bullshitting.

Your suggestion to have the cop investigate me was also something that I thought you were lying about because it's remarkably short-sighted; cop wants to investigate people who will be alive; if I am scum and you don't feel you can catch me on play, you can catch me by my partner's play and you can catch me by forming town blocks; wasting an investigative role on someone who scum probably needs to shoot eventually is silly.

Here it is.

[LicketyQuickety]

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

Well, you made a post that looked sketchy (in particular, by pretending to have knowledge of a cop in the game) in order to generate information. That is bullshitting.

Your suggestion to have the cop investigate me was also something that I thought you were lying about because it's remarkably short-sighted; cop wants to investigate people who will be alive; if I am scum and you don't feel you can catch me on play, you can catch me by my partner's play and you can catch me by forming town blocks; wasting an investigative role on someone who scum probably needs to shoot eventually is silly.

Here it is.

I take it back. Nacho never actually calls anything Scummy and as far as I can see, the closest he comes to calling something Townie is that he said Super was playing correctly.

Nacho, why haven't you called anything Townie or Scummy?

[Superhans]

@Lovesick
In post 686 I offer explanations to your argument in post 672. In 692 I get the impression that you didn't care for my explanation:

@Lovesick
In response to post 672
In my opinion none of the votes/unvotes are flaky.
Post 18 & 20 were jokes during the early game.
Post 100 explains itself.
Post 246 is me excited for reads.
Post 350 is me trying to bait LQ.
Post 355 illustrates that it wasn't a serious vote.
Original means a read that is not a rehash, or a development of someone elses read.

I dont need an explanation for them. I was providing evidence for my claims.

Lovesick are you saying you would rather I didn't respond, if not this, then what did you mean when saying "I don't need an explanation"? Also surely if your evidence can stand on its own two feet you would welcome any attempts to challenge it from me. You say that:

i like letting players speak their mind before I come to a conclusion on their action and possible alignment

So why didn't you welcome post 686?

[...]
@FancyPants
Here's some earlier posts of Superhans where he acted flaky/indecisive and retreating on some of his claims. There's also somewhere among the quotations where Superhans tells me (I believe) to go get 'original' scum reads or something along those lines and he continues to tell players throughout the game to get original reads/posts which may be why players like Tob and Rauth hold back from speaking as things which they have thought or have an opinion about been spoke. I might be speculating way too far in this but yeah.
[...]

I distinguish between what is original and what is re-hashing in post 626. I think it is fine to re-instate a view which isn't your own, as long as you give credit, or it is relatively clear that you didn't create the view.

I know how to play however i stand by my point of not wanting to shift it the reason being there is not enough information or evidence which throws my scum radars off the face of Earth. I'm not someone who likes to follow or throw blame on someone else blindly without any form of evident supporting it as it's a risky move which could cost the game even if the ratio is 2:7

I would either kill Denominator for his constant absence from the game or Superhans because I don't like his flaky behaviour, it's way too careful almost as if trying to grasp attention but trying not to put himself in the spotlight which personally seems to me pretty scummy

I remember you talking about Superhan's behaviour before, can you summarise for me what about it you find scummy?

It is way too flaky, it's almost as if he can't make his mind up on one thing. He tries to pursue after a player but easily backs away as if to not be read by others, to not be put into the centre of attention and eventually put on the spot by others which I find that kind of play usually done by scum hence me not being convinced that he is a townie

Right now, do I throw your "scum radars off the face of Earth" or have you changed your gameplay to be more aggressive?
As you've clearly changed the standard of evidence you need to make reads, and the game has developed significantly since 132 where you say that at the time very was only enough evidence to cast one read.
Content has increased six fold, so you should be able to make a read on everybody.

Players You Haven't Made Reads On

These players you haven't made a read on at all. Now I think would be a good time.
1) Toblerone
2) LicketyQuickety
3) FancyPants
4) Nacho (You say that you have ill feelings about him in post 132 but then get annoyed at me I say you think he is sketchy, post 157.)
Also can you remember to answer my question in post 700 where I ask you to update your read on Rautherdir.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAV0dskgHCc[/youtube]
^Any fellow DnB heads?

[Superhans]

@Toblerone,
The language question was because I noticed you used loads of exclamation marks! I find that this is often the case (in my experience at least) with people who speak English as a second language.

[Superhans]

@Toblerone many apologies for not noticing that Rautherdir was missing a read on you.

I would also like to hear Rautherdir's answer to your post 743.
A question I don't think anyone has asked Rautherdir is what does he mean by hints?

I'm not scum though. Though the other Power role could probably realize something

I've left out and hinted at a few times.

Rautherdir's ISO isn't exactly Shakespeare's Anthology is it?
I'm sure if we put our minds to it we could come up with a theory at least of what hints he is talking about.

@Rautherdir:
What are these hints?

[toblerone187]

@Toblerone,
The language question was because I noticed you used loads of exclamation marks! I find that this is often the case (in my experience at least) with people who speak English as a second language.

Hmmm.... never really noticed that I do to be honest! <<< Oh look

Just for interest I went back and checked my posts and I have used 12 exclamation marks in 54 posts. Not excessive, but yeah ok

[Superhans]

@Toblerone if Lovesick turns out to be Mafia (e.g she snaps under the weight of the guilt and reveals herself) who would you suspect is the second Mafia?

This is a hypothetical situation, so you may think it is kinda silly, but please humour me.

[Superhans]

@Toblerone also in response to your question how are my reads different to your reads (in post 549).
I disagree with some of the reads in 432, but mainly because of my gut reaction, not necessarily because I disagree with your logic. I think you've demonstrated some fairly solid logic.

Please re-post any of your views, or suggest any new scum/town reads that you may have.

Anyway, here are my thoughts and most are pure gut feelings. You are obviously all experience Mafia players which I am not but I will do my best:

TheDominator37

- a total of 4 posts since the start of the game! Just seems to be doing enough to not get prodded. The frustrating thing is that it

has

been online but has totally ignored the game. Either a lazy irresponsible town or a very shy scum

LicketyQuickety

- frankly I simply cannot understand half of what he is saying. His posts are confusing and full of game theory and Self-aggrandisement. IMO this does not help town at all. And after all the "non-traditional methods" crap it turns out he just uses gut reactions! Well welcome to the club - I'm a noob and that is what I do! No real read because I find reading his posts boring and confusing but gut reaction is that he is trying to bury town under a moutain of "paperwork" therefore scum. I don;t think he is helping town hunt scum.

Nachomamma8

- my gut reaction here is town. He seems to be questioning people in a sensible manner and trying to get clarification from them on things. Ok I am inexperienced but that seems to me to be the way to go about things.

ConnorJC

- this is one that I have a strong scum feel for. Mainly gut feel but there were a couple of things such as when LQ said he was agreeing with him a lot and he quickly defended himself. Also I keep going back to him answering questions on behalf of others

Rautherdir

- no strong read. One thing I liked was that when he voted LQ and said he would come back with a variety of reasons. And he did - he had clearly analysed LQ's posts

Lovesick

- still leaning town but would like to see more scumhunting and less fluff

FancyPants

- definitely leaning scum. So little content posted (I know he said he would not be very active at the weekend but still very little on Friday). Of all the possible questions he could ask and all the content he could comment on, he just wanted to know who I would kill and why Connor thought Dom was scum!

Superhans

- no real suspicions here. Generally town feel

I agree with your Dom Read,
I agree with your logic that LQ is sometimes difficult to understand, although my opinion on LQ changes, as admist lots of his confusing posts, he often posts a really original and insightful read, that really helps town play. I'm now 90% sure LQ is town.
No clue about Nacho. I find him unsettling, but he is clearly playing pro-Town so far.
I have a slight (very slight) scum read on ConnorJC. Similar reasons to you.
Rautherdir, I also don't know about this, but it seems that if Nacho's logic is sound and everyone agrees with it, I was wrong about him. At the time of your post, I agreed with your read.
Lovesick I agreed at the time, now I'm really not so sure, especially since Rautherdir is less likely to be scum.

[toblerone187]

@Toblerone if Lovesick turns out to be Mafia (e.g she snaps under the weight of the guilt and reveals herself) who would you suspect is the second Mafia?

This is a hypothetical situation, so you may think it is kinda silly, but please humour me.

I need to have a read and a think about this one. I have not consider Lovesick as a serious scum prospect so need to read back - won't have time for a bit but will come back to it

[toblerone187]

I agree with your Dom Read,
I agree with your logic that LQ is sometimes difficult to understand, although my opinion on LQ changes, as admist lots of his confusing posts, he often posts a really original and insightful read, that really helps town play. I'm now 90% sure LQ is town.
No clue about Nacho. I find him unsettling, but he is clearly playing pro-Town so far.
I have a slight (very slight) scum read on ConnorJC. Similar reasons to you.
Rautherdir, I also don't know about this, but it seems that if Nacho's logic is sound and everyone agrees with it, I was wrong about him. At the time of your post, I agreed with your read.
Lovesick I agreed at the time, now I'm really not so sure, especially since Rautherdir is less likely to be scum.

And Fancypants?

[toblerone187]

I agree with your Dom Read,
I agree with your logic that LQ is sometimes difficult to understand, although my opinion on LQ changes, as admist lots of his confusing posts, he often posts a really original and insightful read, that really helps town play. I'm now 90% sure LQ is town.
No clue about Nacho. I find him unsettling, but he is clearly playing pro-Town so far.
I have a slight (very slight) scum read on ConnorJC. Similar reasons to you.
Rautherdir, I also don't know about this, but it seems that if Nacho's logic is sound and everyone agrees with it, I was wrong about him. At the time of your post, I agreed with your read.
Lovesick I agreed at the time, now I'm really not so sure, especially since Rautherdir is less likely to be scum.

And Fancypants?

Although admittedly my read was when he was not contributing and due to his question to me. I would say that my read has changed to town now

but

with reservation that he is an experienced player and could easily be scum who knows how to play so as to be read as town

See this is my problem - most of you lot (including yourself) are far more experienced than me and could easily lead me in any way you want. I can only rely on other townies telling me if they think I am being led or manipulated.

There has been a lot of discussion about game theory which to be honest I have not really followed

[Superhans]

I think Fancypants is town based on his pro-town play.

[Superhans]

@Toblerone this is also my first game...

I have struggled to follow game theory involving speculating Rautherdir's power role claim.

[Rautherdir]

Alright, in order of most scummy to most towny:

TheDominator. I know you said excepting lurkers, but this goes beyond lurking.
LicketyQuickety. Rolefishing in 6. I still don't like that.
ConnorJC. Going with the popular vote most all of the time.
Superhans. Just not enough town action
Lovesick. It felt like genuine emotion when she was defending herself. However, her lack of attacks on other players could have put her higher in this list.
Nachomamma8. Would have been most town on this list if I saw more recent content
FancyPants. You immediately set about scum-hunting after getting back on.

Ok so I have not been the most active on here, but why did you not include me on your read list Rautherdir? Not wanting to sound like I am feeling left out but why am I left out?

Superhans did not pick up on it either:

@Rautherdir, who do you think is scum (excepting lurkers) and why?

Alright, in order of most scummy to most towny:

TheDominator. I know you said excepting lurkers, but this goes beyond lurking.
LicketyQuickety. Rolefishing in 6. I still don't like that.
ConnorJC. Going with the popular vote most all of the time.
Superhans. Just not enough town action
Lovesick. It felt like genuine emotion when she was defending herself. However, her lack of attacks on other players could have put her higher in this list.
Nachomamma8. Would have been most town on this list if I saw more recent content
FancyPants. You immediately set about scum-hunting after getting back on.

Your Dominator read is very safe, everyone bar LQ agrees with you.
You are flip flopping like crazy on your LQ read.
ConnorJC is at least contributing judgement, and more original ideas than you.
Lovesick read isn't original, pointed out by LQ.
Nachomamma8's town read isn't explained... I have some more recent content, does that make more the most town in your books?
FancyPants just voted against you and you haven't properly addressed his attack.

I... forgot about you. Considering your recent play I think you're town though.

@Toblerone many apologies for not noticing that Rautherdir was missing a read on you.

I would also like to hear Rautherdir's answer to your post 743.
A question I don't think anyone has asked Rautherdir is what does he mean by hints?

I'm not scum though. Though the other Power role could probably realize something

I've left out and hinted at a few times.

Rautherdir's ISO isn't exactly Shakespeare's Anthology is it?
I'm sure if we put our minds to it we could come up with a theory at least of what hints he is talking about.

@Rautherdir:
What are these hints?

The hints are for the other power role, who should have figured it out by now. They should not be something that mafia could pick up on. I'd rather not bring attention to them, and if anyone else tries to figure it out in the open I will treat that as a scum tell. The less information scum has about the setup the better.

[FancyPants]

We also haven't spent enough time on Toblerone's "town slip" it's the difference between him being all but confirmed or sinister scum.

@Toblerone, why didn't you realise scum couldn't talk during the day despite playing scum the last time you played? And tell the truth or I'll know .
@Connor, will you please come up with some sort of scum subset for me, let's say your best bet for the two scum?

I've happy with the pressure Super is putting on Lovesick but it feels a little OMGUSey, still I agree Lovesick needs to put her cards on the table, the time for evasiveness is long past.

@LQ, I'm not sure why you come to the conclusion that Rautherdir can only be BP, tracker or Doc? Feels like a pretty awkward RB-slip.

[FancyPants]

Meaning only a scum-team of two goons would have that information.

[Rautherdir]

As a mafia roleblocker I would not know there was not a cop. As a mafia goon I would not know there was not a cop.

[Superhans]

@Rautherdir I have read your ISO and believe I understand your hints. very very subtle, and took me quite a while... your secret is safe with me.

[ConnorJC]

We also haven't spent enough time on Toblerone's "town slip" it's the difference between him being all but confirmed or sinister scum.

@Toblerone, why didn't you realise scum couldn't talk during the day despite playing scum the last time you played? And tell the truth or I'll know .
@Connor, will you please come up with some sort of scum subset for me, let's say your best bet for the two scum?

I've happy with the pressure Super is putting on Lovesick but it feels a little OMGUSey, still I agree Lovesick needs to put her cards on the table, the time for evasiveness is long past.

@LQ, I'm not sure why you come to the conclusion that Rautherdir can only be BP, tracker or Doc? Feels like a pretty awkward RB-slip.

On mobile right now, will put together a more complete reads list in a couple hours. Top pair would be TheDom-Somebody Else; provably LoveSick, but I want to read ISOs before I say for sure.

Rautherdir is certain there's another PR, which he could only be if he was BP, tracker, or doc (Or RB). Doc and cop only have 50% certainty that there's another PR, and R looks way more than 50% certain.

[ConnorJC]

@Rautherdir I have read your ISO and believe I understand your hints. very very subtle, and took me quite a while... your secret is safe with me.

Why would you ever post this?

[TheDominator37]

Personally in my opinion, the only right moment for lurker hunting is if they had contributed nothing at all and half of our given time has gone. I mean otherwise, hunting for lurkers is a very easy way of lynching players and if done right, can be an advantage to the scum more so than the town as the ratio of mafia to town is 2:7.

If I have solid townreads on three people and I lynch a lurker, I have a 40% chance of lynching scum. If I have solid townreads on 5 people and I lynch a lurker, I have a 66% chance of lynching scum. You point out that the odds are against us early but that shouldn't mean anything; when we lynch we aren't lynching randomly and waiting for information to fall into our lap is silly when there is no guarantee it will ever do so.

But there is still a chance that your "solid town read" can be scum right?