Newbie 1758 - Symmetry (Game Over)

[Hellfire Missile]

Yet you were fine with leaving her at L-2 for two days?

Who?

Me voting for HS?

[Huntress]

Yes.

[Hellfire Missile]

atm it didn't even cross my mind. Not saying that i voted for the heck of it, but I didn't realize he/she (is hs a she) was at l-2. I though we needed 5 to lynch (Yes, i was wrong it was 4)

[Hellfire Missile]

What i don't get is why you guys didn't lynch me. I was anti-town and yall were pretty much clamoring for my blood d2

[Sobolev Space]

HM's last couple of posts read a little weird to me. Like he's trying to distance himself from HS's lynch because HS flipped town. Idk.

Re your above post HM: I was fine with lynching either you or Sequencer, Sequencer just seemed scummier at the time. Now you're the best lynch.

This thread has been super dead, very annoying. And another good reason to lynch HM since we need as many pro-town players as we can get.

[Hellfire Missile]

Would you like me to self vote?

[Huntress]

No. Why would you want to?

Except in

very very

rare cases self-voting is going against your win condition. We've already had one player doing that and we don't need another. If you are town you would be damaging our chances of winning by voting known town. If you are scum it would lose you the game.

The subject is addressed more eloquently than I could in the following thread:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59109


I'm waiting for ThinkBig to get back to me on my last question before making any decision.

[Huntress]

And another good reason to lynch HM since we need as many pro-town players as we can get.

Pro-town doesn't equal townie, in the same way as anti-town doesn't equal scummy.

[Xalxe]

Vote Count 3.4

In case of emergency, good luck.

ThinkBig (2)

: Hellfire Missile, HowardRoark

Hellfire Missile (1)

: ThinkBig

Not Voting

: Sobolev Space, Huntress

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-12-26 15:48:15)

[HowardRoark]

So that it isn't forgotten:

What information will HM's flip give us, if it doesn't end the game of course?

@Sobolev Space: Would you hammer if I switched my vote to Hellfire Missile?

[Sobolev Space]

@HM, I don't want you to vote for yourself. I want you to make a case for why we shouldn't lynch you today.

And another good reason to lynch HM since we need as many pro-town players as we can get.

Pro-town doesn't equal townie, in the same way as anti-town doesn't equal scummy.

Fair enough. My biggest worry is that Howard is scum and is pushing a ThinkBig lynch today so the thread dies tomorrow and we all end up deciding on an HM lynch for him to win in lylo.

@Sobolev Space: Would you hammer if I switched my vote to Hellfire Missile?

I would wait at least 72 hours for HM to defend himself and for us to finalize discussion (especially for Huntress to get her last say since she's likely the NK tonight). After that I would hammer unless HM presented some very very convincing arguments for why I shouldn't.

@Huntress: are you still leaning towards ThinkBig being scum?

[ThinkBig]

I've been very busy. @Huntress, I'll respond to you after work tonight.

@SS - that's what I'm worried about as well. If HM flips town, then Howard is probably scum.

[Huntress]

So that it isn't forgotten:

What information will HM's flip give us, if it doesn't end the game of course?

@Sobolev Space: Would you hammer if I switched my vote to Hellfire Missile?

I really didn't like this.

Why did you need to quote my question to ThinkBig "So that it isn't forgotten", when I had mentioned it only three posts before yours? It looks like you're trying to cover yourself while trying to rush the lynch to prevent further conversation with TB.

Fair enough. My biggest worry is that Howard is scum and is pushing a ThinkBig lynch today so the thread dies tomorrow and we all end up deciding on an HM lynch for him to win in lylo.

Yes. That's very much what it does look like. He's afraid of a mislynch slipping out of his hands.

@Huntress: are you still leaning towards ThinkBig being scum?

I'm still in two minds about him.

But I think I like this better for now:

Vote: HowardRoark

[ThinkBig]

What information will HM's flip give us, if it doesn't end the game of course?

It will narrow down the pool of suspects. I'm confident that either Howard is scum or HM is scum. I'm quite comfortable lynching either one today. HM has acted quite anti-town throughout this game; however, as you pointed out, anti-town=/=scum. If we ML, I'd rather it be an anti-town player.

However, after re-reading Howard's ISO, I think that he is a better lynch.

VOTE: Howard

[Sobolev Space]

Ugh. Howard is suss but HM is still by far the best lynch. If y'all's votes are still on Howard close to the end of the day though I'll give intent to hammer but please reconsider.

@Huntress: Were you suspicious of Howard before the last couple of posts? If so why?

@ThinkBig: Do you have any reasons from Howards iso for why he's scum that haven't already been brought up?

Since this is L-1 should Howard claim and everything or naw? I mean I'm assuming we're all VTs (except the remaining scum) so I guess claiming isn't that important... Unsure about norms here.

[HowardRoark]

@Sobolev Space: I'm after a ThinkBig lynch just as I was after a Joshz lynch; I feel that the slot is most likely scum. If I wanted the "easy mislynch" I could have jumped on the Hellfire Missile bandwagon. I've expressed PL worthiness but continue to stand behind my reads. Though I suppose it's all WIFOM from either point of view. The point of my question to you was an attempt at a sanity check for my read of you. You've expressed some suspicion about me here and there, why the willingness to hammer now?

@ThinkBig: You haven't explained the initial FOS on me and your vote now. Sobolev Space also asked about it (829) but that was also ignored. Why the switch? Your vote is opportunistic and nothing else.

@Huntress: I appreciate that you didn't like my post. I also appreciate that Sobolev Space was able to answer it before anyone else chimed in. I was going to ask that question as I comprised a previous post, but you asked it and reated it because it needed to be answered. What are your thoughts on the answer? I'm not moved. I'm not sure how you feel differently about Sobolev Space's 889 regarding me. Can you please boil down you reason to vote me? Why me over ThinkBig?

[Sobolev Space]

Howard, in post 865 ThinkBig said he revised his read on you to null town when asked again. I'm waiting for his response to my above question before I assess how opportunistic his last vote was. I agree it did look like his tone changed a little once Huntress voted for you.

My argument about you going for a Joshz/ThinkBig lynch is that if lylo is you, me, HM it'll be a lot easier to convince me to vote HM than it would be if lylo was you, me, ThinkBig. Partially because I've wanted to lynch HM all game and partially because there will be much less content and activity in a you, me, HM lylo. I wouldn't be happy about hammering you today but if at the end of the day we still had you and ThinkBig at L-1 I would guess that you're more likely scum.

The point of my question to you was an attempt at a sanity check for my read of you.

...

@Huntress: I appreciate that you didn't like my post. I also appreciate that Sobolev Space was able to answer it before anyone else chimed in.

Can you explain these two lines?

[Huntress]

@Huntress: Were you suspicious of Howard before the last couple of posts? If so why?

Not really. I didn't see anything that stood out as scummy, but the first part of 884 pinged me.

And then ThinkBig's switch to Howard right after my vote didn't feel so good either.

Since this is L-1 should Howard claim and everything or naw? I mean I'm assuming we're all VTs (except the remaining scum) so I guess claiming isn't that important... Unsure about norms here.

It's still good to wait before hammering, particularly as we'll be going into lylo if it's a mislynch.

[Huntress]

What are your thoughts on the answer? I'm not moved.

I was expecting a little more than just that it would narrow down the list. Almost any lynch would do that. But if he's town with only two suspects I can see his point.

I'm not sure how you feel differently about Sobolev Space's 889 regarding me.

Differently from what? I'm not sure what you mean here.

Can you please boil down you reason to vote me? Why me over ThinkBig?

It's gut mainly. With a bit of throwing a pebble into the water to see the ripples.

[Sobolev Space]

2 post in 24 hours ugh. If this is how the thread is gonna be it sounds like discussion is done with. In that case:

Intent to hammer: ThinkBig

Upon review I think his jumping on the Howard train was a little suss. Compounded with earlier activity by him and Joshz I think he's more likely scum than Howard. I disagree with Huntress that the first half of post 890 by Howard was scummy as well considering that the post by Huntress that he quoted was on the previous page. Howard has been pretty pro-town for the rest of the game as well.

I would still prefer a HM lynch but its looking like it isn't in the cards and a lynch is better than nolynch.

If ThinkBig flips town I'm gonna be pretty suspect of Howard. If HM is scum he just got a pretty huge pass from me but we'll see how it works out in lylo assuming the game doesn't end after this lynch.

I want to wait for everyone to have their say before hammering. I especially want to see Howard and ThinkBig's responses to the questions posed to them above.

[HowardRoark]

@Sobolev Space: The LyLo argument you present works as well for ThinkBig or you being scum as well. I'm trying to clarify my generally null read of you. I have my concerns and would have rather had the PL done D2; I take my share of the blame for that miss. If today is a misylnch, tomorrow I also find myself in a pickle. It was nice that nobody else answered for you and that Huntress appears to be doing some scum hunting, though I obviously disagree with her vote on me. You've called for a Hellfire Missile lynch several times today (807, 851, 872 with not wanting to lynch

Joshz

ThinkBig, 879, 885 with Hellfire Missile mislynch tomorrow, 889) but are now ready to hammer ThinkBig. Why the intent versus asking/pushing me to change to Hellfire Missile?

@Huntress: Regarding 889, it reads of hedging bets; reading both posts from your point of view, I could have easily had a similar reaction to both. I often repost questions, from myself and others, which I feel are important. It was my question as well when I was reading through, but you asked it first. The "narrowing down of the list" was a garbage answer; while I agree that it makes sense, it's still garbage. If you weren't confirmed I would be after you for that acceptance. Your

pebbles and ripples

phrasing is causing me to reread differently.

@Hellfire Missile: With some detail, what is your read on each of us?

UNVOTE: ThinkBig
Please refrain from any hammers until I work through these questions and I chime in. Thank you.

[HowardRoark]

I have some analysis on the two of us (ThinkBig and myself) at L-1 that makes me more confident with my reads but I don't want to share until Hellfire Missile and ThinkBig post in this game; they've been active elsewhere.

@Xalxe:
prod Hellfire Missile please: last post about 57 hours ago
ThinkBig prod due in 3 hours

[ThinkBig]

Will post my thoughts after work.

UNVOTE:

For now.

[Sobolev Space]

It was nice that nobody else answered for you and that Huntress appears to be doing some scum hunting, though I obviously disagree with her vote on me.

You've made a couple ominous sounding statements about your question to me in post 884. Could you please explain these a bit more? I asked about this in post 891 as well and still have no response. How did my answer to your question affect your read of me?

You've called for a Hellfire Missile lynch several times today (807, 851, 872 with not wanting to lynch

Joshz

ThinkBig, 879, 885 with Hellfire Missile mislynch tomorrow, 889) but are now ready to hammer ThinkBig. Why the intent versus asking/pushing me to change to Hellfire Missile?

The thread had had a total on 2 posts from the same person in a 24 hour period when I gave intent. I assumed that most people were done with discussion for the day so resigned myself to what I saw as the best lynch in that scenario (even though I mentioned I would still prefer an HM lynch), and hoped a little that my intent to hammer might cause some activity. It appears that now you and ThinkBig are more active, so hopefully we can still get an HM lynch, or at least more content in the thread.

[Hellfire Missile]

[quote="In post 895

@Hellfire Missile: With some detail, what is your read on each of us?
[/quote]
Seeing as Huntress is confirmed town, i can leave her out.

That leaves ThinkBig, you, and SS
so i'm currently scum reading Joshz, so that means all yall are town (it's a shit strategy i know)
I can't say any of yall are anti-town because you guys all posted reads
I also know that you're supposed to read people based on what they state and then what they do. But the problem is that i can't read people (IRL too) for shit.