Newbie 1766 - Game Over

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.4

the_end (2) - Friend Computer, rb
Friend Computer (1) - Aeronaut
Sofiel (1) - the_end
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - ThinkBig
Zekromaster (1) - ssbm_Kyouko,

Not voting (3) - lucca261, Sofiel, Zekromaster


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Monday, 2nd January 22.30. GMT, (in (expired on 2017-01-02 22:30:00)).

I may not get online this weekend. I'll probably only be able to check back on Monday. Merry Christmas everyone!

V/LA until Tuesday due to the holidays. Lots going on this weekend.

Noted.

[Aeronaut]

Alright folks, reading what I missed.

[Aeronaut]

Unlike most people, ive grown to love RVS more than i love my own son

Same tbh. It's like that moment of having fun before you have to defend yourself from death for the next 100 pages.

VOTE: the end

he said i said a thing that scum would say and thats a good enough reason to vote some1 rn

What'd he say

I'm going to UNVOTE: rb for now because Zekro's vote, but I'm a bit iffy about the openness of declaring reads and alignment so soon. Could just be how rb works tho and to be fair there's something to be said about sort-of-kind-of leading us towards the end of rvs this early.

What's Zekro's vote have to do with you unvoting RB, though? Is it just the wagon size?

Nothing to say, random voting, don't want to get on the_end's wagon.

VOTE: rb

Why don't you want to get onto the_end's wagon?

Why do you feel the need to random vote anyway?

It's not like I feel the "need" to random vote, but I'd rather place my vote somewhere (with the side bonus of showing I'm active and "started playing") than do nothing.

Ok... but you're going to efforts to show us that you're active, but aren't actually doing anything to help the game move forward.

Also, don't want to get on any wagon, simply. I put my vote on one of the already voted option as they are those who are actively reading and posting in the thread, so I'm not throwing my random vote without even getting some reaction from the voted one.

So now that some time has passed, what did you gather from RB's reaction to your vote?

[Aeronaut]

#43 moved my vote because I didn't like the direction Zekro's vote was leading to/didn't want to be part of a wagon on someone I wasn't 100% sure is scum.

So, I feel like you (and most new people in this game) are thinking of your vote the wrong way.

As town, besides a select few people, you only get one real weapon, and that's your vote. You should be using it! Vote people not just if you're absolutely sure they're scum, but even if something feels off or you simply want to pressure them. Pressure is what gets scum to crack, and your vote is the only way to apply that pressure.

[Aeronaut]

Wow, I really hate the color

I might just not use it tbh

[Aeronaut]

#43 moved my vote because I didn't like the direction Zekro's vote was leading to/didn't want to be part of a wagon on someone I wasn't 100% sure is scum. Generally standing by that decision bc I wanted to see if rb would continue with conversational/humour posts in lieu of scumhunting ones and the direction of #46 looks promising

Friend I'm wondering about you, what's your opinion on how things are going so far? I'm wondering because the only posts I've seen from you are ones that aren't giving any tells but a random vote/chipping in by giving neutral info

What do you mean exactly when you say, "I didn't like the direction Zekro's vote was leading to". Two votes is hardly a wagon and it's still quite early in the day. Unvoting rb seems to suggest you've already made your mind up about him. Is this so?

What? in his unvote of RB, he even said it was because he didn't like the wagon size, and then states reasons why he still wasn't sure about RB. If anything, that post is the opposite.

RB, we shouldn't lynch if we don't have any reason at all.

FOS: rb

This is pretty objectively wrong. If we never lynch anyone, then scum auto-win, e.g. why we do, indeed, have to lynch someone at some point.

Hello all! Glad to be replacing.

Hi TB!

Random voting is good. Random lynching actually helps the mafia, since it's a 2/9 chance we hit a mafia.

I assume you either meant Random voting is not good, or Random lynching helps the town. Either way, both of these statements are incorrect.

Liking Aero and End for town right now. But all can change.

Aero is viewing things from a town perspective,

I mean you're right, but have I done that looks town to you? At the point you'd posted this, I'd done like one serious post and it was a B- at best.

Hey, there is daytalk? This is not alignment indicative, since I replaced out. Just need to know.

Nope, no daytalk. There should be, though.

You shouldn't shitpost in a mafia game.

Lol ok well there's about fifteen million games on this site that prove otherwise.

He also seems to think that is a good idea to kill people for no other reason than to have fun.

What RB is saying is not that we should be random lynching, but that random wagoning is fine, being to add pressure and whatnot.

[Aeronaut]

If you read the sample PM for Mafia goon, it clearly says they can only talk at night.

I suspect you read this out of YOUR OWN ROLE PM

VOTE: ThinkBig

Booooo. This is reachy.

You have a bad reaction to me voting you, so my vote will stay for now.

"I wish to continue having my vote parked here for no reason"

He isn't even trying to put out content and his only vote is just a joke per his own statements.

But wouldn't that be similar to how you play half the time? How is it suddenly AI?

(If I say AI btw, I mean Alignment Indicative)

With the ThinkBig/ssbm thing I feel like Think's reaction is pretty town-y bc it's emotional and ssbm seemed to jump on that pretty quickly/opportunistically so I'm ?? on both of you atm. I'm thinking it

was

scumhunting on ssbm's part tho.

If you think that ssbm jumped on it opportunistically, wouldn't that be a more scum-driven response than a town one?

@Sofiel - I jumped on it quickly because he overreacted to what appeared on the surface to be a weak vote. I had a reason to vote him but decided it would be better to see what he would do if I poked him.

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

I've played enough newbie games on here to know that scum team doesn't have day talk. Read the sample PM. You are grasping for straws in a very scummy way.

VOTE: ssbm

This is not a townie reaction to a single weak vote. If he were town he would ignore my vote because it poses no threat to him, because nobody would follow after a weak vote like that. Scum, however, are very paranoid of being lynched and will sometimes overreact to these kinds of votes. I think this is what he did, and that's further confirming my feeling that he is scum, which is why my vote will stay.

I disagree. Your vote on him was pretty baseless and opportunistic; whether you agree or not isn't what's important. What is important is the reaction, really, as you were saying.

Thinkbig saw that it was kind of a baseless reason to be parking your vote, and called you out on it. I feel like as town, this makes a lot of sense; a scum reaction probably would have been less about attacking/pressuring you and more about defending himself. E.g., it probably would have been a scum reaction if he was busy defending himself trying to prove that he just read the OP instead of his own PM.

town is hunting for scum, scum is defending themselves.

[lucca261]

@aero, on your post #40, on the answer to Zekrom, you asked him exactly what I would've. Knowing that I'm town, if you are viewing things from the same perspective as me, I'll think of you as town.

[Aeronaut]

@Lucca - As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason. I was just about to ask you what you thought about that exchange. Do you think ThinkBig has been so towny this game that my vote should not be on him?

He's extremely null for me at the moment. I wanted to know if your initial vote was just a reaction test or if you thought the exchange was scummy? So I'm assuming that your vote on him right now is real? I'm willing to sheep.

You're willing to sheep? Why is that, if you think he's extremely null?

Friend_computer, zekromaster, Aeronaut: Tending towards scum
All three have confirmed participation but seem to be intentionally not posting. (Aeronaut claims he has exams). They may be scum because by staying quiet they're not drawing any attention to themselves, just waiting for someone to get lynched. It doesn't matter to scum who gets lynched (especially on Day 1) as long as its not them. They're content to let us talkative ones accuse and lynch each other.

I did have exams! They sucked!

Also, being the IC, staying quiet isn't really a viable strategy. In general too though, activity doesn't always equal alignment. It really depends on the player.

In this post, you mentioned that you think ssbm is town. How do you feel about his initial vote on TB (excluding the later reaction)?

[Aeronaut]

FOS: ssbm

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

Seriously? There are CLEARLY SAMPLE PMS ON THE FIRST PAGE.

I feel like this is somebody who read a lot of the last 2 or so pages, picked an argument, and then repeated it to look town

My impressions so far:

rb: Tending towards scum.
I haven't seen anything serious from him. Mostly just jokes, "lol random" comments and calling people townie and scum without reason. I sort of get the feeling he is trying to hide by shitposting so much (though this could just be his playing style). His comments suggest he wants an early lynch. I feel this is a scum move. As a scum he wouldn't care who gets lynched on Day 1 as long as someone gets lynched quickly so we can move on to Night one, where the scum can kill who they really want.

He's most likely just shitposting for the sake of it. While this is disruptive for the town, I don't think he's doing this just because he's scum. Or he could be shitposting so we think he's just shitposting and not accuse him of being scum, but I find this really hard.

Sofiel: Tending towards scum.
Based on his unvote of rb. I think he was a little too quick to jump off the rb wagon. I think maybe he voted for rb to begin with to hide that rb and him are scum partners and then panicked when a wagon started behind rb. Could be something else too but the unvote has stuck with me as being odd.

I found it suspicious too. Nothing much to say on this read, I'm pretty much of the same advice.

ssbm_Kyouko: Tending towards Town
He seems to be poking and voting people simply to get a rise out of them to figure out what their alignments are.

Idem

Friend_computer, zekromaster, Aeronaut: Tending towards scum
All three have confirmed participation but seem to be intentionally not posting. (Aeronaut claims he has exams). They may be scum because by staying quiet they're not drawing any attention to themselves, just waiting for someone to get lynched. It doesn't matter to scum who gets lynched (especially on Day 1) as long as its not them. They're content to let us talkative ones accuse and lynch each other.

While I cannot speak for Friend_Computer and Aeronaut, I myself was just really busy in these days, I'm counting on being able to post more now that I've got no school to think of.

ThinkBig: Neutral
I was going to say town, but he got quite defensive when ssbm voted him, especially his counter vote of ssbm in #71. My impression is neutral till I see more posts from him.

Nothing to say

Lucca261: Neutral
Mostly because he's scumhunting. His sheep voting on ThinkBig while having a null reading is odd. He went from "I hated ssbm vote. everything about it" in #90, to agreeing with him with a sheep vote in #96.

I don't know how much one can take Lucca's scumhunting as a sign of not being scum, and I find this kind of behaviour suspicious.


I'm limiting myself to commenting the_end's reads, as I don't have anything new to add to the game, for now.

This post had three "

I agree

"s and one self defense for lurking. It's like when you get a bag of chips and it's mostly air.

What does Idem mean? "I don't even mind"?

Why would you unvote someone and not ask anyone else a direct question? Are you even trying to find scum? Do you have any reads of your own or are you just waiting for popular opinion to form so you can mold your reads to fit that?

VOTE: Zekromaster

I'm conflicted here, because I absolutely agree with this post, but it also looks like ssbm jumping off of that ThinkBig wagon ASAP because it sure was a bad look.

but i just want to point out as well, it could still be a scum move by Zekro to look town - scum do 'townlike' things all the time because they want to look town. I think you need to assess what Zekro's motivation is. if the_end is town, it's potentially a good move by scum Zekro - he looks good for getting an accurate townread and not being on the mislynch wagon.

so if you think that Zekro's read on the_end is really inauthentic - you should keep your vote there. i didn't mean for you to unvote, i just didn't really agree with your reasoning for him being scum. but often newer players can't really explain their reads, but they 'feel' bad about a certain action. Zekro's actions made you feel weird, so i think you should keep your vote and not be discouraged by me shooting down your reasoning. there's a lot of ways Zekro could be scum making that play.

this is going into wifom territory and getting real circular, but if you feel Zekro is scummy just vote - that's also how town should play

This whole interaction between RB and Sofiel makes them both look pretty town to me. I don't feel like RB scum would take this time to explain this in this much detail when he didn't have to, and I dunno Sociel's respond gave me happy vibes

liking RB for town more and more.

@zekrom, if you had to bet the game on one player being scum, right now, who would you choose?
@sofiel, same question.
@friend, you got any real reasons to vote end right now or is the vote still random? because you fosed ssbm and rb, but instead of voting them, kept a random vote. why is that?
@ssbm, are you going to scumhunt at all?

i got a weird feeling about Sofiel's #113. I feel like he wanted to vote The_End, but didn't wanted to be the third vote on the wagon, so he voted Zekrom instead. The logic is weird. He thinks that pointing out his decision is opportunistic scum. But he didn't think I was scum for doing it. I feel like he was looking for an excuse for voting Zekrom.

--

UNVOTE: Think

keeping voting Think right now is useless, since he is going to be V/LA.

i'll unvote and wait for the answers.

The questions in the post seem kind of boring, random, and baseless. Why ask that to ssbm, when there's like half the game that's made a lot less of an effort to do anything?

[Aeronaut]

This is where I'm at.

{NT}Sofiel [S: 38*][T: 47, 116]
{NT}rb (SE) [T: 118]

{N}ThinkBig(SE)
{N}ssbm_Kyouko (SE) [T: 43][S: 75]
{N}lucca261 [T: 84, 89][S: 93*, 118*]

{NS}the_end [S: RL*]
{NS}Friend Computer [S: 101*]

{LS}Zekromaster [S: 41*, 103*]

Spoiler: ***

38* This kind of stuck me as scum feeling the waters to see what is ok/not ok to do.
41* Ok... but you're going to efforts to show us that you're active, but aren't actually doing anything to help the game move forward.
93* willing to sheep
RL* Readslist; I really dislike how a lot the scum reads in this list, he later on sort of retracts by saying "I'm not sure"
101* I feel like this is somebody who read a lot of the last 2 or so pages, picked an argument, and then repeated it to look town
103* This post had three "I agree"s and one self defense for lurking. Nothing post to look busy.
118* Baseless/meaningless questions

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

[rb]

im gonna cooperate with christmas pikachu

[rb]

wow ur readslist even has a matrix

i dont like that >:|

[Aeronaut]

I think this is the way to go.

VOTE: Zekromaster


So far, Zeke has 5 posts, and every single one of them is "I don't have enough information to do anything", which A) is deadass incorrect, there's five pages of people posting. I've managed to make a page on my own just replying to all of it. So yeah, there's enough information; B) Even if there isn't enough info, then do something to generate info. You could be pushing someone, asking questions, etc. and you aren't, sooooo

A good example of what I'm talking about here is in 41 when he mentions that he's just trying to look active (which granted idt it's indicative to say that, but it is to still literally do nothing anyway), and 103 where he has this post that takes up half my computer screen, that when it boils down literally just is him agreeing with everything The_End said.

So zeke is just sitting around being just active and agreeable enough. I see scum, there.

[Aeronaut]

im gonna cooperate with christmas pikachu

you too, christmas skull man

wow ur readslist even has a matrix

i dont like that >:|

I mean reloaded and revolutions were garbage, but I think the original still holds up

[rb]

I kinda want Sofiel to take some stronger stances though

I saw her initial push as town but the unvote so sudden wasn't really town and I don't like that she didn't reaffirm her stance when I encouraged her to. It's like she just sort of gave up and it feels scummy to me, like scum trying to push and being shut down and then returning to lurking.

[rb]

im gonna cooperate with christmas pikachu

you too, christmas skull man

wow ur readslist even has a matrix

i dont like that >:|

I mean reloaded and revolutions were garbage, but I think the original still holds up

u r gud at joekz pls b mi friend

[Aeronaut]

I kinda want Sofiel to take some stronger stances though

I saw her initial push as town but the unvote so sudden wasn't really town and I don't like that she didn't reaffirm her stance when I encouraged her to. It's like she just sort of gave up and it feels scummy to me, like scum trying to push and being shut down and then returning to lurking.

Yeah. I don't know, it's kind of hard reading people based on how hard their stances are on D1 in a newby game though, because newbies are naturally pretty cautious at the start. I know I was, and I got scumread for it.

The difference I think is when they're actively trying to look busy.

Speaking of which, how do you feel about Zeke?

im gonna cooperate with christmas pikachu

you too, christmas skull man

wow ur readslist even has a matrix

i dont like that >:|

I mean reloaded and revolutions were garbage, but I think the original still holds up

u r gud at joekz pls b mi friend

my mum told me I shouldn't become friends with creepy christmas skull men

[rb]

I can lynch zeke, i don't really have a read on him either way though so I prefer voting someone I think is scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you read the sample PM for Mafia goon, it clearly says they can only talk at night.

I suspect you read this out of YOUR OWN ROLE PM

VOTE: ThinkBig

Booooo. This is reachy.

This is me not explaining why I'm voting someone to see how they react to a meaningless vote. OMGUS is not a good look and that's why I decided to keep my vote there. It's early D1 so my vote will be on the person I think is scummiest.

You have a bad reaction to me voting you, so my vote will stay for now.

"I wish to continue having my vote parked here for no reason"

I gave my reason. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't change the fact that it is there and in the open. Why do you misrepresent me here?

@Sofiel - I jumped on it quickly because he overreacted to what appeared on the surface to be a weak vote. I had a reason to vote him but decided it would be better to see what he would do if I poked him.

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

I've played enough newbie games on here to know that scum team doesn't have day talk. Read the sample PM. You are grasping for straws in a very scummy way.

VOTE: ssbm

This is not a townie reaction to a single weak vote. If he were town he would ignore my vote because it poses no threat to him, because nobody would follow after a weak vote like that. Scum, however, are very paranoid of being lynched and will sometimes overreact to these kinds of votes. I think this is what he did, and that's further confirming my feeling that he is scum, which is why my vote will stay.

I disagree. Your vote on him was pretty baseless and opportunistic; whether you agree or not isn't what's important. What is important is the reaction, really, as you were saying.

Thinkbig saw that it was kind of a baseless reason to be parking your vote, and called you out on it. I feel like as town, this makes a lot of sense; a scum reaction probably would have been less about attacking/pressuring you and more about defending himself. E.g., it probably would have been a scum reaction if he was busy defending himself trying to prove that he just read the OP instead of his own PM.

town is hunting for scum,

scum is defending themselves

.

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

What does Idem mean? "I don't even mind"?

Why would you unvote someone and not ask anyone else a direct question? Are you even trying to find scum? Do you have any reads of your own or are you just waiting for popular opinion to form so you can mold your reads to fit that?

VOTE: Zekromaster

I'm conflicted here, because I absolutely agree with this post, but it also looks like ssbm jumping off of that ThinkBig wagon ASAP because it sure was a bad look.

ThinkBig was my strongest SR at the time. This was much scummier than TBs reaction to my vote. If he had remained calm under pressure I would have looked elsewhere for a scummy player. What was so bad about voting TB? I explained the real reason in 81.

liking RB for town more and more.

@zekrom, if you had to bet the game on one player being scum, right now, who would you choose?
@sofiel, same question.
@friend, you got any real reasons to vote end right now or is the vote still random? because you fosed ssbm and rb, but instead of voting them, kept a random vote. why is that?
@ssbm, are you going to scumhunt at all?

i got a weird feeling about Sofiel's #113. I feel like he wanted to vote The_End, but didn't wanted to be the third vote on the wagon, so he voted Zekrom instead. The logic is weird. He thinks that pointing out his decision is opportunistic scum. But he didn't think I was scum for doing it. I feel like he was looking for an excuse for voting Zekrom.

--

UNVOTE: Think

keeping voting Think right now is useless, since he is going to be V/LA.

i'll unvote and wait for the answers.

The questions in the post seem kind of boring, random, and baseless. Why ask that to ssbm, when there's like half the game that's made a lot less of an effort to do anything?

I get the feeling lucca is very suspicious of me and hesitates to say it. I felt like he saw my reaction test and decided to try one of his own on me when he offered to sheep me on someone who he thought was null.

[Friend Computer]

UNVOTE

Did not realize I was still on RV.

[Friend Computer]

VOTE: sfm

Will come up with a readslist soon.

[Friend Computer]

Doing a Post-By-Post, may take a while.

Currently think the_end is Null Scum.

[Zekromaster]

K, so, for now my strongest town read is surely Aeronaut.
Friend Computer looks pretty inactive, but I don't wanna say anything about his alignment as I don't have the elements to comment it.
Sofiel and Kyouko are the most interesting, as some of their behaviour is pretty suspicious (Rapidly changing votes, heavily accusing people even at random) but they look to be genuinely scumhunting. I'd probably say leaning scum, with Sofiel looking more like a "suspicious town" and Kyouko looking more like a "townish scum".
the_end is also reading scum too much. It's a thing I only noticed when looking at his reads as a whole, instead that as single reads. He almost only scumreads, and as a single townread. This last thing is pretty suspicious, at least for me. I can see why one would've thought I was scum by seeing me agree with his reads, and I can see why I was wrong in leaning completely on them.
rb looks pretty townish too. He defended a town player (I'm pretty sure I'm town) and his shitposting is just how he plays, so it's not alignment indicative. Also, he didn't care one bit about votes aside from some shitposty comments. Which to me feels like he's innocent.
Nothing to say on lucca261, he's pretty much scumhunting but scumhunting by itself doesn't mean being town.
ThinkBig is absent, and also didn't post much. But his posts so fare are a bit on the scummy side.

So, to answer lucca261, I'd say the_end.

Yes, it looks pretty schizophrenic on my end, but it didn't occur to me to analyze the situation from a more "big picture" point of view.

[Zekromaster]

So, for now
VOTE: the_end

(Forgot to vote in the other post)