Mini 1860 - Game Over!

[eagerSnake]

VC 3.03

TwoFace (2) [L-2]: gerryoat, havingfitz
havingfitz (1) [L-3]: JarJarDrinks
gerryoat (1) [L-3]: TwoFace


Not Voting (3): Gamma Emerald, GreyICE, Lil Uzi Vert

Lynch Threshold

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Current Deadline

The current deadline is 10:00PM EST Thursday, December 29, 2016, or (expired on 2016-12-29 22:00:00)

Mod Notes

GreyICE has been prodded. They have (expired on 2016-12-24 23:59:59) to make a game-advancing post before seeking replacement.

[havingfitz]

VC 3.03

havingfitz (1) [L-3]: TwoFace

[/area]

ATM JarJar is the one voting me.

Okay. - eS

[TwoFace]

I'm voting gerry

Okay. - eS

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Fitz:

Could you link the posts where the thoughts you have about them are bolded red?

[TwoFace]

See this is why these iso posts are so bad. He doesn't ask questions about them. He just sees black/white. If I had the time I could explain every single thing in red but he doesn't care or else he'd ask questions first.

Oh and Tywin did lie. To say he didn't when I proved he did just goes to show how bad of a player he is.

[gerryoat]

Spoiler: TwoFace ISO

2f (212 posts)

ISO 0-4 - 2 RVS votes.
ISO 5 - Naked "wheeee" vote on keyen.
ISO 9 - Disputes Gear's comparison to town!keyen "OMGUSing everyone who suspected him."
ISO 10 - confronts keyen about RVS question
ISO 11 - more disputing Gear's keyen tr.
ISO 12 - disagrees with JJD assessment towards Gear+ and him- (2F).
ISO 13-14 - an exchange with Tywin on RVS and a little self meta....followed by approval of Tywin comments disparaging self-meta.
ISO 15 - Questions Gamma town reads on JJD and Gear.
ISO 16 - disputes JJD assessment of his (2f) vote on keyen as not being casual.
ISO 17 - Questions Grey on his vote for JJD.
ISO 18 - An exchange that I think is on the benefits of RVS wagons.
ISO 19 - Agrees with Grey's reason for voting JJD.
ISO 20-21 - Says to keep an eye on Vij for his terrible vote on gerry.
ISO 22 - JJD thinks Vij vote on gerry is fine and 2F responds with "ok"

ISO 24 - Says keyen is a good lynch and that "sometimes rushing isn't so bad."

ISO 25 - If keyen flips scum keep an eye on Tywin.

ISO 26 - Questions how JJD could have a strong townread on Rask this early (at post 181) in the game. How can you have enough of a scum read on keyen to push your opportunistic vote on him towards a rushed lynch this early?

ISO 27 - Repeats Tywin scum if keyen scum comment.
ISO 35 - Defends his earlier Tywin comments to concerns raised by Tywin. Finishes with calling Tywin's post odd.
ISO 36 - Calls keyens reads half-assed. Though he got all of his town reads right (assuming Gamma is a vig as I think is probably the case).
ISO 37 - Disputes gerry town read on keyen and mentioned running to mod regarding to ongoing game comments.
ISO 38 - Defends his play against Tywin concerns.
ISO 39 - Disagrees with Vij comment towards him.
ISO 40 - Agrees with Rask and states JJD seems very town (at post 329)
ISO 41 - Has tiff with Tywin due to suspicions.

Uses inaccurate quote (post 124) to misrep Tywin who was clearly referring to post 180.

ISO 42 - Tywin has dropped down due to lies (Tywin never said).

ISO 43 - Agree with Gamma response to Grey that Tywin's focus is off.
ISO 44 - Pushes keyen (L-5) wagon first.
ISO 46 - Says Dave is null.
ISO 47 - Disputes Kyouko's defense of Tywin and keyen. Refers to proof he gave (with the wrong quotes mentioned above).

ISO 48 - Tells keyen his early vote may have been opportunistic.....2Face only has the one vote on keyen. He kept his keyen vote there all of D1.

ISO 49 - Tells keyen his reaction to being put at L-2 on page 2 of the game is why 2f subsequently has maintained his vote which he has said could be considered opportunistic.

ISO 50 - Admits his case on keyen is weak and that's why he isn't pushing it but there are no better options. I would add here that while 2f says he isn't pushing keyens case....that seems to be all he has focused on up to this point other than very minor shading towards Tywin.

ISO 53-55 - A little tiff with Tywin who thinks 2f attacked him.
ISO 57 - Shows he is not paying attention to the dispute between Gamma and JDD on changing reads. Completely missed it despite it flaring up at least twice.
ISO 59 - States he is not worse than JJD to keyen and dismisses keyen suspicions towards him as ~omgus.
ISO 60 - Defends Dave to Rask.
ISO 61 - Dave is a "useless townie" and 2f would not support a PL. Also makes continued weak push on keyen's "stale wagon."
ISO 62 - Calls JDD to task for voting Gamma despite agreeing with the keyen "stale wagon" assessment. Doesn't know why JDD suspects Gamma despite it being a fairly well laid out subject.
ISO 66 - Agrees with Grey that Gamma is town.
ISO 67 - Agrees with JDD that Grey was defending Tywin prior to voting him.
ISO 68 - Tiff with Tywin...mentions lie he never proved Tywin committed.
ISO 69 - Tells JJD that Grey, Dave and keyen aren't the scum team.
ISO 70-71 - Asks JJD how Tywin can be a townread. Questions any pro-town content by Tywin and says he lied again.
ISO 72 - Tells Vij his scum reads (JJD/TwoFace/Dave) are the worst reads ever. Hindsight: Only 1 has been shown to be wrong.

ISO 73 - Gets in heated tiff with Tywin about lie Tywin never told and end result is Tywin is a liar and keyen is a mafia PR. WTF? I would note that the Grey wagon is gaining traction at this point and 2f has not mentioned it. In fact he has defended Grey as of ISO 69 and made little mention of him otherwise.

ISO 76 - Asks Rask if we

can just lynch keyen because no one else interests him (@537).

Keyen only has 1 vote at this point whereas Grey is up to 3 and JJD and Dave are at 2?
ISO 77 - States Dave is useless but not scummy because of perception. Every game as 1 or 2 useless players according to 2f. Not sure how that excludes them from being suspects.
ISO 81 - Asks keyen why he left Grey off his post 222 reads list. This when Grey has reached 4 votes. No mention of that by 2f.
ISO 83 - If keyen isn't going to happen

2f would be good with a Grey lynch.

Grey is at L-2 at this point @577 and makes his claim in Post 583.

No previous suspicions towards Grey.

ISO 84 - Immediately after Grey's claim (2 posts later) it's back to pushing the keyen wagon. And the very next post is Grey voting keyen to L-5.

ISO 85-86 - Doesn't believe Grey claim but won't lynch PR claims on D1.
ISO 87 - Expresses interest (shade?) on Vij requesting replacement.
ISO 88 - Asks Gamma who he would prefer to lynch (instead of keyen) while Gamma has his vote on JJD.

Not paying attention again.

ISO 89 - Tells Gamma that JJD reads scum to him given that Grey is probably scum. ?????? At this point in the game Grey is voting 2f's top suspect keyen and at not time earlier in the game has 2f given any hint or reasoning for thinking Grey is scum.
ISO 91-93 - Calls keyen scum and Dave lynchbait/PL
96 - continues to suspect keyen for his immediate discrediting efforts following 2Fs opportunistic vote on keyen on page 2. Smh
ISO 97 - crap points against keyen.
ISO 99 - Tells keyen only 3 people are voting him, when it's actually 4, and that he shouldn't worry and just scumhunt.
ISO 102 - Agrees with JJD's assessment of the Grey claim and keyen wagon.
ISO 103 - Working hard to get the keyen lynch through.
ISO 104 - Puts a Grey/keyen/LUV scum team possibility out there.

ISO 107 - Calls Grey caught scum (how so?)

ISO 108 - Claims that keyen just claimed scum. Hyperbole that never occurred of course.
ISO 109 - Tells keyen to stfu.
ISO 111 - Calls Gamma stupid for saying 2f is confirmed scum for not unvoting keyen.
ISO 113 - Discrediting my participation in the game after only 3 posts (I'm here, Hi, Unvote). Nice.
ISO 114 - Applauds potentially catching 2 scum D1.

End of D1

ISO 117 - Immediate vote on Grey
ISO 118 - Defends on JJD comments regarding 2f not wanting to lynch Grey D1. 2f acknowledges his focus was on keyen.
ISO 120 - Discredits LUV a bit for saying he (LUV) didn't see why anyone believed the Grey claim. Accuses him of not reading which is funny given his (2F) lack of awareness on the JJD/Gamma activities D1.
ISO 121 - Calls the vig a dumb ass. Not sure how getting rid of useless null town is a bad move.

ISO 122 - Responds to Kyouko asking the vig to shoot "gear or havingfitz, pref gear" by

encouraging the vig/sk to preferably shoot me instead of gear.

ISO 125 - Says Dave was obviously not scum. 2f's reads are much better with hindsight.
ISO 126 - How does Grey going after Tywin lessen the fact he was very early on Grey's case? Shades Tywin a bit saying neither he nor Grey were on the other very hard.

ISO 127 - Calls Tywin's 180 on keyen suspicious. Not sure how with all the extensive lobbying for the keyen lynch that 2f did.

ISO 128 - Disagrees with Kyouko on level of Dave scumminess.
ISO 129 - States scum try to appear town and he's never seen scum win by being useless.
ISO 130 - Some nice wifom by 2f on why 2f isn't scum.

ISO 131 - Probably 1 more scum on keyen wagon. Great....who is it? You or JJD?

End of D2

ISO 133 - Points out possible crumb by Tywin on Gear.
ISO 135 - Gives gerry crap about his hammer reasoning.
ISO 136 - Votes Gear and asks him to please post content and stop flying under the radar.
ISO 140 - Says he would vote gerry or gear today...

and maybe JarJar?

ISO 142 - Votes Gamma after the vig claim. Doesn't believe the claim.
ISO 144 - Makes decent post wrt Gamma. nai fmpov
ISO 147 - changes read on JJD based on D1 w/ Grey. Gear/gerry and Vijmoi.
ISO 151 - Asks Gamma why not shoot gear or Fitz instead of Kyouko.
ISO 153 - We should lynch gerry....for posts that look very similar to 2f comments on D1 wrt Grey.
ISO 156 - Votes gerry.
ISO 158 - Attacks me and my play style as useless after I include him in a group of a 4 player scumpool.
ISO 161 - Attacks gerry for quick hammer reasoning...says gerry is a liability as town. Nice.
ISO 162 - Scum are in Gear/gerry and fitz.
ISO 163 - gerry didn't refuse to vote Grey D1 any more than you did 2f. Calls gerry scum
ISO 165 - You did the exact thing you are accusing gerry of in this post. See ISO 83.
ISO 166 - How is gerry stalling? Wtf?
ISO 168 - Really thinks Vij replaced out because Grey was getting run up. What a nice imagination.
ISO 177 - gerry is still 2f's desired lynch. Would vote fitz.

Gear/GreyICE has fallen off the list.

ISO 178 - Gives me crap for not ruling out JJD (which I subsequently have) and for not considering Gear who has done nothing. So doing nothing = scum?
ISO 179 - Little discrediting of my opinion and repeat of JJD outrage.
ISO 180 - Why are you pm'ing the mod? WTH is that all about? And if I haven't ruled you out as a suspect up to this point you are most certainly a consideration.
ISO 181 - fu 2f
ISO 182 - Admits he almost always reads me as scum. As I am not always scum your scum reads on me are useless. Why is getting anyone to L-2 a concern wrt having a vig/sk in the game? Unless you plan on pushing a Gamma wagon today...it makes no difference whether we're at L-2 or 1 or lynch.
ISO 185 - @2f...what do you mean your "outed SR on gerry came before you did the ISO and voted him?"
ISO 186 - thin skinned 2f rantings....carry on....
ISO 188 - lol at 2f telling anyone to work on their attitude. Omg that's good :D1
ISO 189-201 - Lots of gerry bashing up to gerry is the right lynch today and more.
ISO 205 - the same could be said for you and keyen D1.

Summary...

TwoFace was right! I suspect him the most. All of the lines in his ISO that I find suspect are highlighted in red or just black.

In short...I suspect TwoFace for tunneling keyen all D1 despite acknowledging that his vote on keyen was opportunistic and that his case on him was weak. That there were no better alternatives to keyen despite a solid effort by JJD towards Gamma; and Tywin, who he had prior to this claimed to have caught in a lie. Wouldn't catching someone in a lie warrant a vote to L-4 more than someone whose case you said was weak and only at L-5?

Additionally I just find him almost completely ignorant of Grey's existence until Grey is at L-2. Then all of a sudden he is ok with lynching Grey. But wait! A claim! Let's just stick with the weak opportunistic keyen wagon. Followed immediately by a vote on the weak opportunistic keyen wagon by Grey... who you are also ok lynching... whose claim you do not believe and you claim is caught scum? So why not pass on keyen and go for the sure thing...the caught scum whose claim you do not believe (i.e. Grey)? Or the liar (Tywin)?

I also do not think TwoFace and gerry would be a likely scum pairing. So gerry moves up a little on my town list. Gear/GreyICE take his place.

TwoFace or GreyICE are the only two I will vote today.

VOTE: TwoFace

good vote

[gerryoat]

I proved he did just goes to show how bad of a player he is.

is everyone bad according to you lol

[TwoFace]

It's a terrible vote cause I'm town.

[TwoFace]

I proved he did just goes to show how bad of a player he is.

is everyone bad according to you lol

Lots of people are yes. People who lie are bad, people who avoid interactions with other players are bad, people who don't explain themselves are bad, people who don't scum hunt are bad. Take you for example. What scum hunting or figuring out have you done today? Absolutely none. If you're town you have proven again what I already said in that other game. You're a liability to town.

You voted me for voting you. You say my reasons are bad but they aren't. Could they be wrong? Sure but they aren't bad.

I hate these iso things fitz did but at least he attempted something. That makes you a better lynch candidate over him.

[TwoFace]

In short...I suspect TwoFace for tunneling keyen all D1 despite acknowledging that his vote on keyen was opportunistic and that his case on him was weak. That there were no better alternatives to keyen despite a solid effort by JJD towards Gamma; and Tywin, who he had prior to this claimed to have caught in a lie. Wouldn't catching someone in a lie warrant a vote to L-4 more than someone whose case you said was weak and only at L-5?

Fact check.

I never said my vote was oppportunistic. The closest I said was maybe my earlier vote was opportunistic but not the thing he was accusing me of being opportunistic about. And yes while technically I never changed my vote, I was referring to reasons. When I originally voted him it was cause I like rvs wagons. His reactions made my vote serious.

Also another fact check. I never said my case on keyen was weak. That's a blatant lie. I said my reasons for Tywin were weak.

Read 379 then read 380 & 381.

My reasons for keyen/ty to be scum together was weak. Not my reason for keyen. My reasons for keyen were never weak.

Grey and I interacted a couple of times so not sure how you could say I was ignorant of his exsistance. And I didn't all of a sudden say I'd vote grey. My post right before that I asked keyen why he left grey off his list. And he was on my radar for defending Tywin earlier.

Let's just stick with the weak opportunistic keyen wagon.

Misrep

So why not pass on keyen and go for the sure thing...the caught scum whose claim you do not believe (i.e. Grey)? Or the liar (Tywin)?

Why are you asking questions you already know the answer to?

I don't lynched claimed PRs day 1

I already said that I think tywin is probably scum if you are scum, so clearly i am not going to be voting him right now.

Also.

That there were no better alternatives to keyen despite a solid effort by JJD towards Gamma

except

I feel like gamma is town

and Tywin, who he had prior to this claimed to have caught in a lie. Wouldn't catching someone in a lie warrant a vote to L-4 more than someone whose case you said was weak and only at L-5?

Why would I vote him over keyen when I said he is scum ONLY if keyen is scum?

And no unfortunately lying alone isn't enough of a reason to lynch somebody.

tywin was the cop. Are you really using the fact that I didn't push him (a weaker scum read) over my top scum read against me? Are you really using the fact that I didn't vote a town read over my top scum read against me?

Are you really using the fact that I have a never waivering policy of not voting claimed PRs day 1(which is smart play) against me?

Yeah I'm sorry try again. Your entire case against me is lies/misreps/non AI things.

[TwoFace]

Also the moment keyen broke site rules to attempt to discredit me, I was convinced he had to be scum. I don't see why a townie would not just ignore me if they know my reads can be shit. I felt like only scum would be that deceitful

[TwoFace]

I hate these iso things fitz did but at least he attempted something. That makes you a better lynch candidate over him.

I take this back. Actually reading his summary on why I'm scum, Fitz's contributions are terrible and it pretty much condemns him as scum from my Pov for reasons I can't discuss
VOTE: fitz

[TwoFace]

I know you are not mafia at least..

How does fitz know Gerry is not mafia? He was just suspecting him earlier but now somehow knows he isn't mafia?

Can you explain this fitz?

[TwoFace]

Oh nevermind that. He was talking to gamma not gerry

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well I'm sold.

VOTE: Fitz

That's L-1

.

[TwoFace]

What sold you?

UNVOTE:

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The way you defended yourself against his case against you.

Why did you unvote?

[TwoFace]

Putting fitz to l-1 like that out of the blue felt weird to me.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think we've gotten everything we can out of this day to be honest. Gear's replacement is going to be replaced and I think most of us are in agreement that there is very little that slot can say in order to sway our opinions of it.

[TwoFace]

Do you think gamma is vig or sk?

Grey replacing in and going inactive is weird.

[havingfitz]

I think we've gotten everything we can out of this day to be honest. Gear's replacement is going to be replaced and I think most of us are in agreement that there is very little that slot can say in order to sway our opinions of it.

What are you talking about? ffs

[havingfitz]

Oh and Tywin did lie. To say he didn't when I proved he did just goes to show how bad of a player he is.

Why would Tywin lie? The point you accuse him of lying about, that I refer to and explain in my ISO on you, are false. You are either lying or just not comprehending.

[havingfitz]

I never said my vote was oppportunistic.

Like MAYBE you could call my early vote on you opportunistic

Note...you only ever made one vote on keyen. The one you say could be called opportunistic.

My reasons for keyen/ty to be scum together was weak. Not my reason for keyen.

I'll accept this excuse.

Grey and I interacted a couple of times so not sure how you could say I was ignorant of his exsistance.

You cast no suspicion his way until he was getting run up That is a fact.

I know you are not mafia at least..

How does fitz know Gerry is not mafia? He was just suspecting him earlier but now somehow knows he isn't mafia?

Can you explain this fitz?

Gamma...I know you are not mafia at least...any thoughts on who is?

[TwoFace]

Note...you only ever made one vote on keyen. The one you say could be called opportunistic.

did you not see my clarification? why did you just ignore that? i was referring to my reasons. yes my earlier vote could be looked at as opportunistic, I conceded as much. You can pretty much call anyone on that rvs wagon opportunistic though. What you are discounting is my vote became serious and it was due to reasons which I explained.

that's where you come off looking bad. you completely leave that out of your narrative.

You cast no suspicion his way until he was getting run up That is a fact.

I never claimed that I did. That isn't what you accused me of. You said I was ignorant of his exsistance which wasn't true. I also asked my biggest scum read why he left grey off his list. That proves that I wasn't ignorant of his exsistance. It also proves that I was thinking of grey specifically for some reason.

you do realize you don't actually have to mention your suspicion on somebody to actually be suspicious of somebody?

why the fuck would you quote and respond to 1137 when I corrected myself in 1138 and said I realized you were talking to gamma not gerry?

like literally what the fuck was the point of that?

[TwoFace]

Why would Tywin lie?

idk? post game why don't you ask him why he lied.

while you're at it ask your predecessor why he did also