Mini Normal 1857 (Game Over - Mafia Wins!)

[Impoetic]

but yeah @Kyouko please explain your unvote in baby terms for me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The quote was intentional, I'm waiting for Drone to answer shannon. I'd happily lynch him because he's claimed neighbor with Titus, so if he doesn't flip neighbor, that's game. If he does flip neighbor it basically clears Titus and leaves only a few options for scum. He and LUV are the only players that ditched the rb wagon when rb claimed BP at L-1 (6 votes). Wagon was Transcend, drealmerz7, Drone, ssbm_Kyouko, Sesq, Lil Uzi Vert. LUV ditched the wagon first, then Drone, but the rest of us stayed on his wagon until lynch. This should be another reason you all can clear Sesq if you haven't already. Unless you think she was hard bussing at a time when 2 others dropped off the wagon and she could have easily gotten of the wagon without drawing much speculation.

I'm also going to attach my old case on Drone for reference.

ok I finished taking my notes like I was trying to do earlier. Brace yourselves

Spoiler:

@rb
Plz explain that TR on me.
I mean, other than how your role PM told you that I'm not on your team.

Consistency is town trait
It's not a Newbie game, I think it's obvious and needless to say. But I can agree that it was a bit too early to give that read.

@Transcend
Why is Imp scum?
I'm going to split posts just so you can enjoy my avatar more...

Because of the 101st point on Impoetic, durr!

What strikes rb as scum to you?

Vote was based on gut upon game entry. Not really buying the cavalier meme-posting attitude on the first pages. Looks forced. Totally gut though.
Naked votes are best votes when entering a game.
Then rb said he couldn't remember why he was SRing ssbm.

Spoiler: Like this never happened

I just made a note "48 - enter rb:gets on the first wagon that is picking up with real intent but attributes his vote to an rvs policy lynch"
His motivation here is either scummy or towny so I'm hoping he's town

No way dude. You mean my motivation could be scummy OR towny? What an enlightening post, it's so good I think I might just

VOTE: ssbm

we should have more ssbm votes tbh

sesq is probably town rn

you can start by changing your vote to ssbm

super saiyan blue majiffy is probably not town tbh

super saiyan blue majiffy is probably not town tbh

Why do you think that?

post 54 is literally pointless fluff that serves no purpose except, 'look im contributing'

Upon wagon collapse, he gives me a TR.

TTTT goes like “look, I'm town alright? I have reasoning and I'm sure of what I'm doing" in this post. I'm buying it!

scum look bad if the wagon goes through, ppl lost their minds about it getting to L-2. i'd be mislynch but everyone on the wagon would be under suspicion - you don't really seem to give a shit because ur not worried about it, so ur town enough for now

But that means you didn't consider I'm a good enough scum player to not freak out about L-2.

Then he just shits on it with "fuck it, no I'm scum".

And that's why TTTT is scum guys!

Welcome back drone. Excellent analysis.

I'm off to bed. It's almost 3 am.

These posts together don't make sense to me. I pointed it out back then, asking if Kohai was being sarcastic but got no reply so I can only think he seriously thought Drone's case was legit

Nah, Iron ain't scum.
He's vibe transmit Village Idiot to me, my receptors don't lie.
I think it's only politically correct to lynch him!

This is Drone saying that he thinks it would be right to lynch someone he thinks is town this early in the day. He doesn't vote him though, just sort of encourages the idea of others voting him.

Fuck you spammers I don't want to read this garbage Lynch drone he's spamming this thread up why the fuck is there 18 pages?!?!

This guy is writing fucking nonsense and transcend is handing out town reads like hot cakes. He prob town reads Hitler too

VOTE: drone

I do not like this post at all.

Ironstove is now a strong scumread.

VOTE: Ironstove

He has only posted four times in the game and is very difficult to read. I don't like how he comes in out of nowhere and immediately votes drone and accuses him of spamming.

The first post is fine by itself, because iron chose some really bad ways to express his ideas there. What bugs me is that now we have Kohai openly defending Drone as though Drone

hasn't

been muddying his posts intentionally for most of the game so far.

RB is at L-2. Please no more votes on him until I can fully catch up. I will treat any hammer as a scum claim.

VOTE: Impoetic

Joke votes this far in the game is not town play.

L-2 is very bad. Especially at this point in DP1.

@Kyouku

If this is what you call overreacting, then Impoetic has been nuking us with drama.

I think he's trying to divert me away from Kohai and back towards the town!Impoetic wagon with this

i reread impo and think shes town lol

Saved me the work of voting and then unvoting.
Wondering about Fluffy now.

Take cover, I feel like we're giving way too much legitimation to Fluffy's blade fury!

These 2 posts look like an overreaction to obvtown!rabbit having a vague SR on Kohai. I don't see this as a town reaction so I decide to test the waters and vote Kohai to see what Drone will do.

Drealm needs reasons to keep drilling under Uzi..
That is why you can't get it!

I'm fine with taking Iron out.
VOTE: Ironstove

TTTT moved to the Null void.

I don't see the town motivation in voting for someone who you have admitted you think is VI. He's also bringing up Drealm and LUV again even though they've agreed to get back to each other later and not let them distract the rest of us from what's at hand.

FoS: Kyouku.

Instead of answering my reasonable question, you go further and vote.
Doesn't seem intentional to me, but also not something I like!

Elaborating defeats the purpose of reading between the lines,

Wow.

VOTE: Kyouku

Marvelous, that's one scum.

So now Drone is initially FoSing me partly because I voted Kohai, which is what I expected scum!Drone to do, so when he votes me I'm feeling more sure about this one. The vote on me is not town motivated.

U GUYS

KYO IS OBV TOWN

STAHP

Honestly transcend, it is shitposts like this one that gives me an FOS on you.

Kohai FoSes Transcend for having a TR on the player that is voting himself.

My top town reads right now are rabbit and drone.

Not only that but he so boldly outs that drone is one of his top townreads along with the player who is probably the most townread player in the game at this point

To do list:

1. Make case against transcend
2. ISO kyouko
3. Respond to impoetic.

@rabbit - just to clarify, do you town read or scum read me? If you scum read me, why?

I'm eager to hear what kind of scumbo jumbo

teehee, a pun

Kohai comes up with on Trans and I because it's gonna be good

I think they are together but it also makes a little sense to me for it to be scum!Drone whiteknighting town!Kohai, so I'll be putting my vote on Drone since he's the scum in both cases

VOTE: Drone

Also disregard that I was associating him and Kohai(Gerry) together because if Drone's scum it's with Titus unless he flips as a Mafia Neighbor, in which case Titus can be confirmed town

[TTTT]

Well look how active Imp has become.

[TTTT]

Also disregard that I was associating him and Kohai(Gerry) together because if Drone's scum it's with Titus unless he flips as a Mafia Neighbor, in which case Titus can be confirmed town

I might support this info lynch

[Impoetic]

Wait, it clears titus if he flips neighbor? Are their alignments confirmed to each other?

predit: suddenly noticing you're at L-1 and knowing it's your fault does tend to cause something like that, yeah.

It's not like I was completely gone, I just had other priorities and a complete lack of motivation and attention span. And still kind of do.

[Impoetic]

UNVOTE:

[shannon]

I can quote dead threads for finished games, right?

Town read on Rask because he made this post giving advice to a newbie on scum hunting:

"Well, a really basic tell is, look at who is really trying to figure out the game. Original or fresh insights and deep thinking about the game; scum will often just do what they have to for appearance sake so they can look shallow or flat sometimes"

By his own standard I don't think Rask is shallow or flat, he went and looked up a game with me, Titus, and LUV in it.

(If anyone else cares, it's the dead thread from Newbie 1752 which also has Drone and SSBM in it).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68849 > The game thread

What makes you think that rask as scum would not play to towntell in the ways they consider towntells? Rask actually pointed out it was a basic tell; it's something that, if you're aware of consciously enough to think of it when bringing up advice to a newbie, you'll mooost likely not fall for yourself as scum.

This isn't me saying I think rask is scum, but the tell he pointed out is actually kind of my problem with some of your posts. And one of his, too, from what I've read. This is one of those posts.

I don't quite get your last sentence there, are you saying that you're scum reading the post I've made about Rask, for the same reason that I think Rask is town?

Anyway, to clarify what I mean about Rask: I think if Rask was to play to his own stated town tells it would be coming across as fake. Like people would know that he's really faking the effort, where he doesn't need to. For instance, there was no reason for him to look deeply (or shallowly) in to the game he did, because all three of me, Titus, and LUV were already under interest and he could've just picked a random reason everyone else had and jumped on that wagon.

The thing about me, I've noticed, is that I have two modes: Super Obv Town (which is always super faked, even if I am actually town), and Genuinely Being Me (which is almost always scum read, even if I'm town). I'm actively trying to tone down the Super Obv Town because it's hard to maintain, but this 'normal' me gets me scum read, so I might have to change that!

I hope that this has been an adequate response?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If he flips Mafia Neighbor there is no reason for the only other player in the neighborhood to be mafia. If he flips town neighbor it's still a possibility that Titus could be mafia neighbor, or she could be Town Universal Backup Neighbor. They've both already confirmed that there is not a third player in their neighborhood so there's no way Titus is mafia if Drone is a Mafia Neighbor (Mod wouldn't make a neighborhood with only scum in a game that has daytalk).

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like I'm starting to feel a lot less good about lynching shannon or impoetic today and a lot more good about lynching Drone. What do you think TTTT?

VOTE: Drone

[Impoetic]

pfffffffffFFFF holy frick I don't get anyone at all

Shannon I was saying that you have made several posts that seemed like they could be trying to look like scumhunting rather than actual scumhunting, for pretty much the reason you quoted from rask, and that the post containing the quote was one of them.

I think if Rask was to play to his own stated town tells it would be coming across as fake.

First of all, was this really what you were saying? Can you please look over this sentence a second time and tell me if it was actually what you were saying when you made the first post about rask being town for that?

Because this is convoluted and I find it hard to swallow that you would have made a post just thinking that reasoning would be assumed. I also think it just sounds like... contrived reasoning.

predit: so if drone is town we get nothing (at least in that alley). Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

I don't really see the point in two mafia claiming a neighborhood if they don't have one though? Like, if one got lynched, the other would be confirmed -- so why is that a possibility?

[shannon]

*snip*

I still have yet to figure out why Titus is claiming no report = guilty. I think I'm clearly missing something there because even as scum I don't see an incentive to say something like that without some excuse.

In the meantime I'd like to know why Kyouko unvoted just then (I initially assumed the quote was an accident but are you unvoting because Drone's on the wagon?) and why Gerry thinks I'm scum, since you (Gerry) asked me a question as if to try to sort me and then chose not to with no explanation.

speaking of which lol why is titus on the wagon with drone

titus do you townread drone now

This part is kind of confusing to me too.

This is how I understand it:

- Despite me having a 'No Movement' N1, Titus thinks I'm part of a scum team. So she's theorised that you and I are a team. (I think this part of the theory originated from a scum read on LUV, so it's weird that it carries on now he's flipped town)
- When this Day started I jumped in and was like WTF why are you alive why aren't you telling us who you targeted, which she took as me trying to somehow defend her target (which she says was you)
- No Result can come as the result of an ascetic, and Titus thinks a town ascetic would be unlikely
-The theory is that either: I roleblocked Titus and prevented her investigating you, or you're an ascetic who can't be subjected to any night action except killing.
- Someone in our supposed team has to be capable of some kind of roleblock *or* a strongman, since Transcend died N1. So there's a variety of role combinations she can fit to the me + you = scum theory.

My problem with all this, in case I haven't stated it enough, is:
1) It doesn't explain why Titus is alive today
2) It is weird that Titus checked for guns on *you* instead of *me* given that she scum read me
3) It is even weirder that Titus didn't jailkeep one of us
4) The 'no result' on you and the 'no movement' on me N1 is more easily explained by the presence of a roleblocker and a scum team that doesn't include me, than by this elaborate theory.

[shannon]

@Impoetic I think you're right, it can't be a two person scum neighbourhood. It's one or the other, and maybe neither

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't really see the point in two mafia claiming a neighborhood if they don't have one though? Like, if one got lynched, the other would be confirmed -- so why is that a possibility?

We lynched scum D1 so in order to even the odds scum may be tempted to make a risky play like this. It's just WIFOM. "Why would 2 scum claim a neighborhood if they would confirm each other as scum"? Because the fact we ask ourselves that question is enough to deter us from lynching one of them.

I think it's more likely there is one mafia neighbor and one town neighbor amongst them, rather than both of them being scum fakeclaiming neighborhood

[Impoetic]

I'd be pretty lost if drone flipped town and we were in lylo (didn't count, but 2 MLs seems about right? maybe 3) the next day, and I don't feel confident that the scum in there is drone if there is one. I also don't feel confident this would be a profitable risk to take. Like, I get that scum would want to take risks in that situation, but I feel like the costs of that one would outweigh what seem like slight benefits (though I guess I'm biased because the thought is being introduced to me by someone proposing to lynch in them)? Just having them associated, period, would be a big thing, and I feel like there only being one scum in them wouldn't

necessarily

keep people from...

okay maybe. idk. It seems null, but I feel like it's only worth it if we're confident drone will flip scum, so "info lynch" doesn't really add to the reasoning for me.

Also Shannon can you answer the question I asked above? It wasn't rhetorical or mocking/sarcastic, even if it could've come off that way (oops).

[Impoetic]

I find it really strange that Titus finds it so likely that we'd leave alive Titus because one of us is ascetic when it's the other one that Titus actually SRs, and even if that weren't the case, roleblocker just seems more likely from Titus's pov? Otherwise, why not just eliminate both PRs instantly and have 2 mafia vs a bunch of VTs? i mean i see the reason not to now but it doesn't seem as strong as the reason if there's a roleblocker and "I'm treating this as a guilty on the subject" doesn't make any sense to me

also where did the SR on drone go seriously

@titus

[shannon]

pfffffffffFFFF holy frick I don't get anyone at all

Shannon I was saying that you have made several posts that seemed like they could be trying to look like scumhunting rather than actual scumhunting, for pretty much the reason you quoted from rask, and that the post containing the quote was one of them.

I think if Rask was to play to his own stated town tells it would be coming across as fake.

First of all, was this really what you were saying? Can you please look over this sentence a second time and tell me if it was actually what you were saying when you made the first post about rask being town for that?

Because this is convoluted and I find it hard to swallow that you would have made a post just thinking that reasoning would be assumed. I also think it just sounds like... contrived reasoning.

predit: so if drone is town we get nothing (at least in that alley). Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

I don't really see the point in two mafia claiming a neighborhood if they don't have one though? Like, if one got lynched, the other would be confirmed -- so why is that a possibility?

(Is this the question you were referring to?)

I thought that my intended meaning was implied, but evidently I wasn't clear enough and I need to be more explicit (or more thoughtful/careful/less rushed) when I post.

[shannon]

I find it really strange that Titus finds it so likely that we'd leave alive Titus because one of us is ascetic when it's the other one that Titus actually SRs, and even if that weren't the case, roleblocker just seems more likely from Titus's pov? Otherwise, why not just eliminate both PRs instantly and have 2 mafia vs a bunch of VTs? i mean i see the reason not to now but it doesn't seem as strong as the reason if there's a roleblocker and "I'm treating this as a guilty on the subject" doesn't make any sense to me

also where did the SR on drone go seriously

@titus

That's exactly the thing that makes no sense to me. If Titus scum reads me, why does she not investigate *me*? Better to get one scum straight off the bat by finding a gun on them, than to investigate someone else and try to interpret *that* result?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that Titus is scum herself and knows that she's not going to find anything, so she has to make up a result (or a non result) on someone else. That way, if she gets me lynched she's got an excuse for my town flip. And if she gets Impoetic lynched, she's got an excuse for that town flip too (she can call roleblock instead of ascetic).

[shannon]

VOTE: Titus

[gerryoat]

@mod I'm not quite sure how V/LA works. But, i'm gonna be on vacation until the 8th of Janurary. So I won't be able to post as much until then. (I'll still check every day though.)

[JaeReed]

@mod I'm not quite sure how V/LA works. But, i'm gonna be on vacation until the 8th of Janurary. So I won't be able to post as much until then. (I'll still check every day though.)

Noted.

[TTTT]

VLA for the next 24 hours

[Drone]

I'm still around, not V/LA but still less active.
Rereading a few stuff.

[Drone]

yeah shannon declared her vote should be seen as on you already and then TTTT voted putting you at L-1 so if she's asking for a claim now I assume it's intent to hammer from her.
Do you have intent to hammer shannon?
Also don't hammer before Sesq/Drone talk please

@Sesq why did you unvote me d2 again?

I remember you were scumreading me so what changed?

My major issue was it seeming like you tunneling on shannon, but that was me being bad at reading.

@Titus: with impo, it seems like the wagon today was made on her being away, which seems illegitimate. Would be very surprised if there was no scum on that wagon, seeing how it played out.

as for shannon, seems relatively towny. I don't know, kind of hard to read.

Drone, you know what I'm asking you.

I didn't ask for your thoughts on the Impoetic wagon. I asked for your thoughts on Impoetic.

Also, your read on Shannon isn't much of one either. Have you read Rask's recent posts? Why does Shannon "seem townie"?

Impoetic is really newby, and seems to just say stupid stuff and be overly skeptical. As for shannon, it's not that she seems townie, it's that she seems not scummy, and my base position on people is that they are town-leaning, by general principle. As for Rask's more recent posts, they are physically difficult to read. I have a sort of semi-dyslexic thing with long paragraphs. There have been other points in the game where this has been an issue.

Like I'm starting to feel a lot less good about lynching shannon or impoetic today and a lot more good about lynching Drone. What do you think TTTT?

VOTE: Drone

[Drone]

@Kyouko
You ain't getting Drone/Sesq talks.

@Sesq
You're actually the newbie town here, your reads are so all over the place and so weird that it looks like you're making shit up.
Here's for clarity; 2371
Shannon is town
2385
Actually NOT town, just not scummy (aliens confirmed)

Fuck it.
How DARE you call Impoetic newbie with plays like these?
With this i'm ending the "Drone/Sesq" talks Kyouko wanted.

Kyouko; all that would have been cool if not the "what do you think TTTT?"
Do you really need attention? Like, I can see you're working hard to get it. But c'mon...

[Drone]

Shannon, you would have seemed townier if not the Titus vot..er.. Shadow casting.