Micro 672: Vanillish Mafia (Game Over!)

[KainTepes]

i see the next sentence that THINK TANK said he will remove HIRAKI cos of "townvibes" but doesnt explain what the townvibes are...... not really indicative,, but if you are tryiing to break your reads down in a logical manner this does not help explain anything...... even I explained why i townread ThinkTank in my post where i voted SPADE earlier,,

[Think Tank]

I've played a number of times with Hiraki, and this whole bitter/snarky thing he has going on reminds me of his Towngame. You don't have to trust that, I certainly don't. It's a weak and early read. Christ, it's only page 5. I'm not *certain* of anything yet. The Hiraki read is a general impression, which is about one step more reliable than saying my Magic 8-ball says so.

Pine

[Aristophanes]

This is almost a pagetop.
I'll take it!

VC 1.1

KainTepes

(2): Aelin 20, Think Tank 87

Think Tank

(2): Spade_Ace 9, TierShift 11,

Spade_Ace

(1): TheRealGin-N-Tonic 58

Karnos

(1): Karnos 82

Hiraki

(1): KainTepes 98

Not Voting

(1): Hiraki

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Mod Notes:

VOTE: karnos

This guy is lurking too much, obv scum is obv.

I agree.

VOTE: Karnos

Seriously. We are out of RVS/QS and you enter by voting for yourself?

Votes made out of Hydra (by the individual heads) will not be counted by this mod. I don't mind the occasional slip or egopost, but when content is involved, please do so from the proper account. If you do slip, it would be courteous, though obviously not required, to quote the posts made by the other account such that they appear in your Iso.

Sorry if I sound like a hardass here.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So yeah, I'll be gone for the next 24 hours, getting piss drunk cuz it's my best friends birthday

[Hiraki]

Before I respond to Spade's post, I'd like to address my main question which was one of my responses were "fluff".

For the purposes of fluff, I would think that it is pretty agreed that these are points that provide no content and no information to anyone. I'm not going to say I'm flawless but I don't think it's as extreme as you guys are saying. I am doing this based off of the blue text Spade has put after my posts. (n.b. these are not in quotes because I was signed off in the middle of typing this and got very annoyed and wanted to get this out there ASAP - if you have any trouble following or have any concerns, feel free to ask)

1) Fair enough - when I say "I don't like this", I mean that it is somewhat scummy.

For example, in Post 14, ThinkTank is pretty serious about the PL before Kain posts. Then drops it once it looks like a scene is being created in Post 36. Please explain to me how that is fluff and not just a misunderstanding of how I utilize the term "don't like this"?

2) RVS is not do whatever you want phase. Otherwise, we'd call it that. I'd love to find some definition of RVS that says you can screw around for the sake of screwing around. It's light-hearted, sure, but not just completely ignorant of obtaining scumtells. Again - I don't see how you can make this point sound like fluff either. We had a legitimate disagreement on your play. Calling it fluff is inappropriate.

3) Fair enough - I was only making a point that Gin would've taken. I don't think he took it the right way but that certainly isn't going to make me change my style. I don't see how that counts as fluff either since it's clearly game relevant, albeit perhaps a little not needed. If you want your special one fluff point, feel free to take it.

4) You can't consider this fluff if you're asking a question here. I also think it's both but I can understand how you could feel otherwise. Pine keeps calling me a town-read with no substance. Let me be clear here - Pine and I haven't played a game in at least a year. I can't comment on his townread if he's giving no substance and also is making me look scummy in his own dying ship.

5) Again, you're asking me a question here - how is this fluff? If you want to backtrack and say that by fluff you meant that you misunderstood what I was saying, I won't blame you - just don't call it fluff if it's not fluff. This was pre-post 69 for TS (TierShift). Now based on what you said, which is

literally

the smallest part of that point, I believe that TS didn't have much content and was just joking around with his questions. If you want to say that I fabricated that I thought TS' posts were funny in order to make myself look better or something, feel free. It's as good, if not better, than the arguments you have presented here already.

6) Again - how is this fluff? I was literally responding to someone's concerns of me. I would really like you to address this fluff point. Not so much that we would learn anything but just because I know it's bullshit. I know you won't though.

On your point that I could have just counted the votes, I have the following to address:

A) As stated, it was 3 AM. I live in EST - this is fact. Could I have counted the votes at 3 AM after getting home from Christmas festivities? Sure - you're 100% right. But after typing a bit and going into the game, I did not feel comfortable making that move. Instead, I did it at 12 PM the next day. I really don't think you have any fair points in this scenario. What scum motivation do I have to wait the next day (n.b. it was literally 9 hours later and I sleep comfortably for 8 hours - it's not like I put on the mafia machine to create the best response to this situation) in order to make my vote?

B) Why is this even an argument? It's not like I voted for someone who I didn't already suspect.

On further analysis of the ThinkTank list that everyone has been looking at, I do have to note something:

Okay, so Kain's age explains a lot. I'm still put off by his style, but maturity does make a difference.

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
3. Think Tank (hydra of Pine and ThinkBig)
4. TierShift
5. Aelin
6. TheRealGin-N-Tonic
7. Spade_Ace
8. Hiraki

Removing ourself (a strange word I just invented to represent the 2=1 aspect of hydra'ing) and the ICs, I get this list:

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
4. TierShift
7. Spade_Ace

I get a pretty distinctly Town vibe from Hiraki. It's been a long time since I played with him, but I'm going to trust my instincts for now on him.

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
7. Spade_Ace

75% of this is scum. Removing TierShift, he's remained Townish...

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
7. Spade_Ace

Bam. Game solution.

I think there is just some bad editing here. Examine the third and fourth lists - they are identical. However, in the post, Think Tank is clearly noting who he is getting rid of and the reasons for it (see the underlined portions). The correct version, in my opinion, should look like the following:

Spoiler:

Removing ourself (a strange word I just invented to represent the 2=1 aspect of hydra'ing) and the ICs, I get this list:

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
4. TierShift
7. Spade_Ace

8. Hiraki

I get a pretty distinctly Town vibe from Hiraki. It's been a long time since I played with him, but I'm going to trust my instincts for now on him.

1. karnos
2. KainTepes

4. TierShift

7. Spade_Ace

75% of this is scum. Removing TierShift, he's remained Townish...

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
7. Spade_Ace

Think Tank, feel free to correct me. I didn't think it was hard to read or understand. The people who are looking at this have clearly not read the post and just noticed a small discrepancy and jumped on it. Otherwise, I guess the scum team is Me/TS/Think Tank

@Kain: I would like your thoughts on what I present above if you had the same confusions.

@Mod: Definitely not being a hardass - we appreciate it lol

@Gin: Have fun!

[Think Tank]

That's exactly correct, Hiraki. My brain was getting ahead of my typing, is all. I eliminated someone, then explained, rather than the reverse. I thought it was obvious enough not to need explanation, though.

See this? This is why Hiraki gets a Townread. Taking the time to critically evaluate stuff instead of trying to force-map it to existing reads is a classic hallmark of Town.

Pine

[TierShift]

Spade I asked you who you thought was scum

[karnos]

I can understand Karnos not being active with it being the festive season, but what I do not like is the fact that instead of actually putting his input into the game he instead just makes a joke of himself with an RVS vote

I usually wouldn't bother explaining, but since I know you are town and this is such a common thing for me...

I typically RVS vote player #1 in the list. as it happens, this game that player was me.

I also hate having my active games unmarked. That is, I like to be able to click "view your posts" and see every game I am in. I glanced at the thread, didn't have time to do a full read, and I did my typical RVS vote for myself to mark the thread.

Read it as scummy if you wish, but I think you will find that it matches my play in most games.

[karnos]

VOTE: Hiraki

Nothing but walls. Can't have a real conversation that way. Fake way to look towny at this point in the game.

[Spade_Ace]

My current main scum read - Hiraki

There are so many things regarding him that is rubbing me the wrong way.

1) His only reason for voting against me was cos I called his Post 67 as fluff, which it indeed was.

2) He gives a definition of the meaning of fluff and uses that definition to defend everything. He says, "

For the purposes of fluff, I would think that it is pretty agreed that these are points that provide no content and no information to anyone.

No

, the definition of Fluff is:-

"writing perceived as trivial or superficial."

It could provide content but it is either not useful or not justified with reasons.

3) His defense of why Post 67 is not fluff, was mainly made using statements he provided in the defense itself,which is, Post 104. You cannot defend why one post is shitty based on reasons you have provided in another post. This is his first statement:

"For example, in Post 14, ThinkTank is pretty serious about the PL before Kain posts. Then drops it once it looks like a scene is being created in Post 36. Please explain to me how that is fluff and not just a misunderstanding of how I utilize the term "don't like this"?"

If he had mentioned this initially,which he didn't, then I wouldn't have called him out on that.

4) Next, his comments on ThinkTank. He first says. "

I can't comment on his townread if he's giving no substance and also is making me look scummy in his own dying ship.

. This makes it seem as if he has a slight scum lean on Pine. But he then goes on to defend ThinkTank saying that ThinkTank probably made an error in his list. So do you scumlean Pine or Townlean Pine??

5) His comment based on Pine's scum list.

Think Tank, feel free to correct me. I didn't think it was hard to read or understand. The people who are looking at this have clearly not read the post and just noticed a small discrepancy and jumped on it.

.

No

, we have clearly read the post and noticed the error but we wanted to know what sort of "town vibes" he got from you.

6) His comments:-

@Mod: Definitely not being a hardass - we appreciate it lol

@Gin: Have fun!

Seems as if he is trying too hard to be town. Esp when Mod's comment was not directed at him.

VOTE: Hiraki

PEDIT: Look who decided to finally show up for the game.

[Hiraki]

Nothing but walls. Can't have a real conversation that way. Fake way to look towny at this point in the game.

I'm having a conversation with several people - just because I post comprehensively, and you haven't read my posts, does not mean that discussion has been brought that way - besides 80 is a perfect point of that.

1) His only reason for voting against me was cos I called his Post 67 as fluff, which it indeed was.

It's page 5 - I'm sure I can just accuse you of doing the world and back at this point...somehow?

2) He gives a definition of the meaning of fluff and uses that definition to defend everything. He says, "For the purposes of fluff, I would think that it is pretty agreed that these are points that provide no content and no information to anyone. No, the definition of Fluff is:- "writing perceived as trivial or superficial." It could provide content but it is either not useful or not justified with reasons.

OK - so I'm sure you're going to explain why my post was fluff again, right?

If he had mentioned this initially,which he didn't, then I wouldn't have called him out on that.

This is

misunderstanding

- not fluff. I'm sorry I didn't spoonfeed you?

This makes it seem as if he has a slight scum lean on Pine. But he then goes on to defend ThinkTank saying that ThinkTank probably made an error in his list. So do you scumlean Pine or Townlean Pine??

Scumline - I'm sorry I read ThinkTank's post and tried to piece together the pieces?

No, we have clearly read the post and noticed the error but we wanted to know what sort of "town vibes" he got from you.

Don't speak on behalf of others - Kain literally says that this is a reason she is voting me.

Seems as if he is trying too hard to be town. Esp when Mod's comment was not directed at him.

I have to say that regardless of my alignment, this is a shit comment. I am actually a person and pulling something like this to say that I'm trying to manipulate my posts is really unappreciative. If you're going to accuse me of things, please keep it relevant to the game.

Please note that Spade's vote is L-1.

[Aelin]

On Mafia Universe, lots of players look at wagonomics, and how a wagon builds can clarify whether someone is town or scum.
VOTE: Karnos

[TierShift]

VOTE: hiraki

Bye bye son

[karnos]

VOTE: TierShift

[Aelin]

Hiraki town.
Tier scum.
If Hiraki flips scum Tier is town

[karnos]

Is my count off? I don't think that was hammer.

[Hiraki]

Is my count off? I don't think that was hammer.

Nope - I screwed up. I think I'm grateful for it more than anything. I am curious - do you still think I'm scum?

@TS - care to say anything more about me or did you just want to quick hammer there and act stupid tomorrow? If there's fluff in this post, it's right here Spade.

Unvote, Vote: TierShift

[Think Tank]

VOTE: TierShift

That was a very awful attempt at a QH and opportunistic.

-Think

[Hiraki]

@Mod: Just for consistencies sake in later days, 102 should have a vote on Spade from me rather than me not voting as per post 80.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: tiershift

You don't end day 1 5 pages in

You've been discouraging a hell of a lot of conversation

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also that post made you sound like an utter twat when hammering

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So, I got about 30 minutes, people's are on a beer run. Let's see what I can come up with

[TierShift]

It was a joke, jesus. I noticed his VC was off so I wanted to test his reaction to him supposedly being hammered. I can't believe you all take it seriously.

For the record, I have a townread on hiraki. My vote was in an attempt to strengthen it. Which I think it has done, as I feel hiraki's post towards karnos is very genuine. I just hope it doesn't get me lynched, which would be ridiculous. If anyone here has played with me before, they can attest to me not being as stupid and reckless as to not check the VC before quickhammering as scum.

VOTE: spade
Is where my vote should be.

[TierShift]

For the record, I actually AM at L-1.

[TierShift]

If pine condones that vote on me he's probably scum.