Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]


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Post Post #9650 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:31 pm

Post by Skullduggery »

Day 7, Vote Count #2

Current Vote Count:

(1)
SirCakez -- JaeReed
(0)
Giovanni il Pellegrino
(0)
MathBlade
(1)
PeregrineV -- MathBlade
(0)
Nahdia
(0)
callforjudgement
(0)
Ankamius
(0)
BigYoshiFan
(0)
Almost50
(0)
JaeReed

Not Voting:
SirCakez, Giovanni il Pellegrino, PeregrineV, Nahdia, callforjudgement, Ankamius, BigYoshiFan, Almost50

With 10 votes available, it takes 6 votes to hammer.

Day 7 Will End on Wednesday, January 11th, at 7 p.m. Eastern Time
Countdown: (expired on 2017-01-11 19:00:00)



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Post Post #9651 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:52 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 9649, Skullduggery wrote:
In post 9615, Almost50 wrote:
Almost50
Is this a vote?
It was. Let me retry:

VOTE: Almost50

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Post Post #9652 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:24 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

The mod got back to me on a question I asked a while back: while it's confirmed that the game has scum, it is
not
confirmed that the game has (or ever has had) groupscum. So I can potentially believe a setup in which until Maxous got lynched, there were no other scum. (That said, such a setup would be very hard to balance, and there'd be likely to be complexities to try to bring the swing more under control. Additionally, it's hard to see this theory fitting with Maxous' behaviour.)

@Almost50: Do you think there are any players, other than yourself, who deserve to be lynched? Are you self-voting out of a belief that everyone's generally town, or that there are scum but you can't identify them, or that there are scum and you know who they are but you won't be able to persuade anyone to lynch them?
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Post Post #9653 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:26 pm

Post by MathBlade »

PV needs rope.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #9654 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:12 pm

Post by MathBlade »

Oh and since I can't sleep I am for mass claim well since PV is the only one who hasn't claimed yet and is probably the mass killer.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #9655 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:18 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Given that almost everyone has claimed and we still don't have a clue to the nature of the scumteam (thus this might be lylo? hard to tell), I agree with making sure that everyone has at least the generalities of their roles claimed. (In some cases, it might make sense to hide details, but players should be honest about what sort of details are omitted (e.g. the number of shots left on a role is something that may make sense to leave out, but you should be honest about "I won't claim how many shots the role has or if it's unlimited", rather than trying to imply a misleading shot count).)
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Post Post #9656 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:10 am

Post by Giovanni il Pellegrino »

I don't know what this whole confusion about the weak modifier is about. Cult is non-town (there, fixed that for you, jaereed). If I target cult, I will die. In plain words, if I target anyone whose name is not green when they flip, I die.
The main thing that's making me suspicious is that Gio's posts seem to show a low level of investment in who gets lynched. In general, this has been a game where tensions have run high and players have been furious with each other for not lynching a player who's "obvious scum". Meanwhile, Gio's been a voice calling for calm but not really doing anything with it. The best way to solve a "lynch X or lynch Y" argument is "but shouldn't we be looking at Z, at least to help solve the situation?". It isn't really "you're arguing too much, but meh". (Incidentally, having Maxous as a strong townread is not suspicious, as he had an unclaimed Ascetic at the time.) Gio seems to have had very few reads of his own; he's mostly just been happy to help wagons along. (Actually, many of his strongest reads have been on himself, using things like self-meta arguments.) Gio seems to have been softly pushing days to end without caring much about the outcome (which is likely to lead to compromise lynches, which tend tob e on town), and to have been defending himself, and not much else. That seems like behaviour that's most likely to come from scum, to me.
I'll admit that the fact that I don't have had many reads of my own is true. As I have said, I couldn't get a grip of the game back then. But "happy to help wagons along" is a factual stretch, especially taking into account the posts you quoted:

I actually explained why I preferred to lynch McMenno over Narna some posts later. I had just replaced in that day and there was the whole "N-clan" issue and whether they switched to MoI in order to save their "scumbuddy" McMenno. Narna was, at least, making an attempt to defend himself, so I went with McMenno who did absolutely nothing.

I wasn't part of the Leonshade wagon that got him lynched in the end. I retracted my vote some time after the post you quoted, but before the new wagon started emerging iirc. It would be very easy to revote Leonshade, given the fact that I seemed to initially believe the whole scum governor theory, yet I didn't.

I was scumreading Shiro, so I don't know why you quoted that part, even before Narna presented the infamous "kill-positive". I had said that if McMenno flips town then I would look for scum in the tail of the MoI wagon, on the basis that it would be more likely for scum, under the pretense of the time limit, to hop on the MoI wagon as late as possible. Shiro was the one who hammered MoI and his behaviour afterwards was anything but that of a townie.

The final post of your quote is early Day 5. If I was happy to help wagons along, I would have voted Narna, the
de facto
lynch that day. I would get rid of a quite powerful role, gotten away with it pretty smoothly and have an ample pool of potential mislynches in the pool of people that pushed for his lynch for five days, not go through all that Narna-clearing-then-vote nonsense.

The fact that my playstyle is calm doesn't mean I am focused. I like going analytical (see my other games here) but if I fail to do so, I am lost. I didn't offer an alternative to McMenno because I thought he was the best lynch, both from an informational and scumhunting perspective. I didn't offer an alternative to Leonshade and Narna because I had no clue what was going on and I was one of the few to admit it. There was nothing to townread about Shiro and I was certain he would flip scum.
(The thing that prompted me to check through Gio, though, was the claim, which seems like an unreasonable amount of town power. Obviously, it's possible that it's someone else who overclaimed, or that the roles are less useful than they seem, but Gio's role is one of the least confirmed and also one of the most specific, which means that there are nightplay reasons to think Gio is scum too.)
The role is nerfed by the fact that if it targets someone without an active night action, then there is no way to tell if my action went through and my target is clear, or something happened and my action failed. My pool of potential clears is shrinked this way and on top of that is even-night only. Narna's role seems as powerful as mine but suffers from the same problem; It could clear someone each night but the results were shaky.
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Post Post #9657 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:47 am

Post by SirCakez »

In post 9647, Almost50 wrote:
In post 9646, SirCakez wrote:Ok I'm confused
Who's hammering what?
Hammering ME. I'm suggesting that my lynch today could be beneficial to Town provided we decide who hammers.

First option: PV
Why? Bc he did not claim and is not mechanically clear. That way if he is scum (and more to it, if he is a killer) he will lose that ability. In fact he will lose all his abilities, but I'm precisely shooting for the killing ability.

Second option: SR
Why? because he is already confirmed Town AND Vanilla (i.e. no abilities to lose anyway). Transforming him into the Annoying Dog should make scum think twice before shooting him at night, and being confirmed he is unlynchable by day. It's good to have a confirmed Townie alive to endgame.
Who is SR?
For the second option - if hammering you vanillizes the hammerer, why have someone who's already confirmed vanilla do it? That seems silly.
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Post Post #9658 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:54 am

Post by MathBlade »

Why are we talking about hammering the dog. We should be lynching obvscum PV.

@SirCakez -- I was assuming that typo is JR not SR for JaeReed.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #9659 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:39 am

Post by Ankamius »

Almost50, why are you suddenly not considering hammering yourself?
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Post Post #9660 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:01 am

Post by MathBlade »

By golly good scot I think that is one of the better questions you have asked all game.
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Post Post #9661 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:31 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Ugh, maybe Gio is town.

I agree that Ankamius' question is a good one.
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Post Post #9662 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:41 am

Post by callforjudgement »

@
BigYoshiFan
: I was rereading you (as you're only very slightly confirmed) and realised that I don't know what many of your reads are. What are they, especially on the unconfirmed players (PV and Almost50) and players with confirmed role but not alignment (Gio and SirCakez)?
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Post Post #9663 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:36 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 9652, callforjudgement wrote:@Almost50: Do you think there are any players, other than yourself, who deserve to be lynched? Are you self-voting out of a belief that everyone's generally town, or that there are scum but you can't identify them, or that there are scum and you know who they are but you won't be able to persuade anyone to lynch them?
Allow me to reorder my response:

1- I don't believe everyone is town. Otherwise, the game would have ended already.
3- I don't "know" who scum are I suspect certain slots that are being falsely cleared based on the assumption that night action results are conclusive and/or their own claims.

2- I this decided to eliminate a doubtful slot.. mine. I am also trying to either eliminate the threat of another questionable slot (PV) OR increase the chances of a confirmed slot (JR) of making it to LyLo.

As long as I'm alive (and the town is mislynching) I will always be a suspect because I have no evidence of my role's alignment. I had requested to be checked multiple times in the past, but Narna never listened and now he's dead, so -aside from my own word- there is no guarantee I'm neither scum nor a killing role. It thus follows my slot should NOT make it to LyLo, and I'm not going to get NK'd with this role.

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Post Post #9664 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:40 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Does anything special happen if people target you with a non-killing role?
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Post Post #9665 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:43 am

Post by BigYoshiFan »

In post 9662, callforjudgement wrote:@
BigYoshiFan
: I was rereading you (as you're only very slightly confirmed) and realised that I don't know what many of your reads are. What are they, especially on the unconfirmed players (PV and Almost50) and players with confirmed role but not alignment (Gio and SirCakez)?
As of this post the only hard town reads I have are A50 and JaeReed.
Not as strong townreads include your slot, Nahdia, and depending on what else I read and some question I will probably soon ask, maybe Ankamius.
I had a slight townread just by the tone of PV's posts, willing to discard that. More of a null until he's claimed.
SirCakez, Gio, and MathBlade are all wild cards for me. I'm having a hard time making scumreads because I still don't know for sure what factions exist or how results were tampered with. SirCakez probably the least scumread. Now, just some speculations I've made...
Convenient Gio checked MathBlade since Narna died and couldn't confirm a clear and also when they arguably need the clear the most now.
Gio acknowledges his lack of reads in his last post but makes no effort to make anymore, instead using his votes and lynches to defend himself.
CFJ townreads him for that.
MathBlade continuously defends themself by using Gio's clear as an alibi. Also thinks SirCakes is obvtown. How?
Has PV claimed yet? If not, could we at least wait for a claim before we start spouting PV IS GOING TO BE THE LYNCH, and perhaps instead asking for a claim? cough cough MathBlade

Also, my shift key is broken. I've had to copy and paste question marks from sources. I can capitalize but I can't use certain punctuation marks and it bugs me. Bare with me. XD
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Post Post #9666 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:45 am

Post by BigYoshiFan »

Ankamius revealed his intentions in the neighborhood, right? Does anyone in the neighborhood scumread them?
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Post Post #9667 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:47 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 9659, Ankamius wrote:Almost50, why are you suddenly not considering hammering yourself?
Because my role is more effective if it gets transmitted to certain slots now. I only offered to hammer myself earlier because there were many willing to do it and it would have hurt the town to lose a role like yours or Narna's or Math's .. etc. If Math -for example- hammers me they lose their BP (but still won't be shot because of the new role).

Now if a CONFIRMED TOWNIE .. who is ALSO A VT hammers me, they get to live to LyLo. Why would I want to deny them that chance.

And FTR, if I had a vig shot I would shoot Nahdia. If I had TWO shots it's be Nahdia and SirCakes. Nahdia knew about my role "annoying" whoever hammers/kills me, and Cakez is pulling the obtuse card which isn't becoming of him at all. His last 2-3 responses to me are plain dumb questions asked for the sake of appearing to be asking questions. I give him much more credit than that.

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Post Post #9668 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:48 am

Post by MathBlade »

I already asked for a claim. PV posts once every 200 years (sarcasm) and I wanted him yesterday and people then randomly ran up conftown. I do not have the patience for this shit. We are not lynching in the clears.
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Post Post #9669 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:49 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 9666, BigYoshiFan wrote:Ankamius revealed his intentions in the neighborhood, right? Does anyone in the neighborhood scumread them?
I don't scumread him I 3P him.
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Post Post #9670 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:52 am

Post by BigYoshiFan »

We're never gonna reach a consensus, are we?
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Post Post #9671 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:54 am

Post by MathBlade »

Considering people are suggesting lynching people who are confirmed not killers and we should be lynching within the pool of not cleared killers to save lives. And SirCakez is obviously Town I really only see PV as a viable lynch unless someone provides a case for SirCakez scum other than "obvious" I don't see myself voting Cakez.
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Post Post #9672 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:56 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 9664, callforjudgement wrote:Does anything special happen if people target you with a non-killing role?
Nope. Just killing me does.

And I'll reiterate/try to rephrase my response to Ank: Everyone claimed some sort of a PR. I don't know which is true, and even if I did I don't know if they're Town or Scum. It felt safer to withdraw from the game earlier -if I was forced to- and taking my role out with me.

Right now we KNOW there is a TOWN VT in the game. His hammer on me transforms my role to him, thus it will protect him. I have already said that the alignment won't change, and with my green flip you KNOW JR is TOWN ANNOYING DOG from that point on.

Also PV is the only slot w/o a claim. If he hammers me he cannot be blamed for future kills regardless of his alignment. No more suspecting him for being the killer. So, I'm using my role to the best extent I can, making a semi-investigative/semi-protective one.

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Post Post #9673 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:56 am

Post by BigYoshiFan »

Have you explained why Cakez is town? I'm still not seeing it.
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Post Post #9674 (ISO) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:00 am

Post by MathBlade »

Yes I have. And even if you don't think I have the onus is one you to convince me that Cakez is scum for me to vote him.
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