Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[SirCakez]

Because PV has a "legit claim" despite the fact it completely relies on revealed info and isn't AI

[Nahdia]

your claim is way more legit imo...

[SirCakez]

Heh, tell that to the club on my wagon

[BigYoshiFan]

Because PV has a "legit claim" despite the fact it completely relies on revealed info and isn't AI

PV softed his role before there were any claimed dogs. I remember seeing it, don't remember where.

[Nahdia]

i mean, we know for a fact cakez' role is legit. so uh.

[BigYoshiFan]

He's been passing out things, yes, but that isn't alignment indicative.

[Nahdia]

neither is PV's role.

[BigYoshiFan]

Got me there. I townread PV more though.

[callforjudgement]

Right, Cakez definitely has the role claimed (I received an invention D1, so have personal experience of that); PV also almost certainly has the role claimed. I'm not sure that either role has a definitive indication of faction built into it (and nearly all the claimed roles are at least town-suggestive). Of course, if the scumteam is made out of converted players, they'd presumably still have their original, town-suggestive roles; come to think of it, looking at the power roles that seem to exist, all of them seem to be designed so that a) they're potentially useful for any faction (assuming multiball), and b) they wouldn't be gamebreaking in scum hands. (For example, look at how long Ankamius had to power up before killing; I think that slot's town, but if it hypothetically had been culted, it wouldn't exactly make the cult unstoppable.)

That said, one of the points against SirCakez is that the way he's been

using

the Inventor shots is flat-out weird. I don't think I've ever seen an Inventor focus the shots on one person before, even if they are bulletproof, and why would you give Bodyguard (which kills the user, if it does anything at all) to a townread? Meanwhile, we can't get this sort of read on PeregrineV because the role doesn't obviously do anything useful other than confirming itself; it's been used in about the most pro-town way possible, but that would have been both easy and fairly harmless to fake as scum.

[Nahdia]

i disagree completely that the way cakez has used his role has been odd.

[Skullduggery]

PeregrineV has been prodded.

[Skullduggery]

Day 7, Vote Count #10

Current Vote Count:

(5)

SirCakez -- callforjudgement, JaeReed, BigYoshiFan, Giovanni il Pellegrino, Almost50

(1)

Giovanni il Pellegrino -- Nahdia

(0)

MathBlade

(0)

PeregrineV

(0)

Nahdia

(0)

callforjudgement

(0)

Ankamius

(0)

BigYoshiFan

(3)

Almost50 -- PeregrineV, MathBlade, SirCakez

(0)

JaeReed

Not Voting:

Ankamius

With 10 votes available, it takes 6 votes to hammer.

Day 7 Will End on Wednesday, January 11th, at 7 p.m. Eastern Time
Countdown: (expired on 2017-01-11 19:00:00)

[MathBlade]

Right, Cakez definitely has the role claimed (I received an invention D1, so have personal experience of that); PV also almost certainly has the role claimed. I'm not sure that either role has a definitive indication of faction built into it (and nearly all the claimed roles are at least town-suggestive). Of course, if the scumteam is made out of converted players, they'd presumably still have their original, town-suggestive roles; come to think of it, looking at the power roles that seem to exist, all of them seem to be designed so that a) they're potentially useful for any faction (assuming multiball), and b) they wouldn't be gamebreaking in scum hands. (For example, look at how long Ankamius had to power up before killing; I think that slot's town, but if it hypothetically had been culted, it wouldn't exactly make the cult unstoppable.)

That said, one of the points against SirCakez is that the way he's been

using

the Inventor shots is flat-out weird. I don't think I've ever seen an Inventor focus the shots on one person before, even if they are bulletproof, and why would you give Bodyguard (which kills the user, if it does anything at all) to a townread? Meanwhile, we can't get this sort of read on PeregrineV because the role doesn't obviously do anything useful other than confirming itself; it's been used in about the most pro-town way possible, but that would have been both easy and fairly harmless to fake as scum.

Because giving a bodyguard to a scumread is worse. You give bodyguard to someone you think is a low power or VT role so they can die saving the high power role. It is swingy but that should absolutely be given to a townread. Hell given to me I could take the shot for the townie and no one die because I am infinite shot BP. Like a convoluted doctor. Focusing on a townread forces SirCakez if scum to give me the toys and the toys stay in Town hands. Never to go to scum. Therefore by lynching SirCakez we remove townpower indirectly.

How many toys do you have left Cakez?

[callforjudgement]

Because giving a bodyguard to a scumread is worse. You give bodyguard to someone you think is a low power or VT role so they can die saving the high power role. It is swingy but that should absolutely be given to a townread. Hell given to me I could take the shot for the townie and no one die because I am infinite shot BP. Like a convoluted doctor. Focusing on a townread forces SirCakez if scum to give me the toys and the toys stay in Town hands. Never to go to scum. Therefore by lynching SirCakez we remove townpower indirectly.

A bodyguard shot is entirely harmless in scum's hands; they can't usefully use it.
A bodyguard shot in the hands of an obvtown player is pointless, as they can't save another player without dying themselves (not even if they're bulletproof).
A bodyguard shot in the hands of a scummy-looking townie is very powerful; they can die in the place of someone confirmed, which has the same amount of power as confirming themselves (assuming the shot hits).

[MathBlade]

Because giving a bodyguard to a scumread is worse. You give bodyguard to someone you think is a low power or VT role so they can die saving the high power role. It is swingy but that should absolutely be given to a townread. Hell given to me I could take the shot for the townie and no one die because I am infinite shot BP. Like a convoluted doctor. Focusing on a townread forces SirCakez if scum to give me the toys and the toys stay in Town hands. Never to go to scum. Therefore by lynching SirCakez we remove townpower indirectly.

A bodyguard shot is entirely harmless in scum's hands; they can't usefully use it.
A bodyguard shot in the hands of an obvtown player is pointless, as they can't save another player without dying themselves (not even if they're bulletproof).
A bodyguard shot in the hands of a scummy-looking townie is very powerful; they can die in the place of someone confirmed, which has the same amount of power as confirming themselves (assuming the shot hits).

Again. All these things I agree with so it is better to give it to a townread.

[SirCakez]

Because PV has a "legit claim" despite the fact it completely relies on revealed info and isn't AI

PV softed his role before there were any claimed dogs. I remember seeing it, don't remember where.

Even if he does have that role, it's not AI.

That said, one of the points against SirCakez is that the way he's been

using

the Inventor shots is flat-out weird. I don't think I've ever seen an Inventor focus the shots on one person before, even if they are bulletproof, and why would you give Bodyguard (which kills the user, if it does anything at all) to a townread? Meanwhile, we can't get this sort of read on PeregrineV because the role doesn't obviously do anything useful other than confirming itself; it's been used in about the most pro-town way possible, but that would have been both easy and fairly harmless to fake as scum.

This doesn't make any sense.
I gave the BG to someone I thought was town who wouldn't be NKed, two things to a townread, and then an investigative thing to a obvtown BP. There's nothing weird there.

Got me there. I townread PV more though.

How? He's lurking his balls off.

How many toys do you have left Cakez?

Dos, neither are super good tho

Because giving a bodyguard to a scumread is worse. You give bodyguard to someone you think is a low power or VT role so they can die saving the high power role. It is swingy but that should absolutely be given to a townread. Hell given to me I could take the shot for the townie and no one die because I am infinite shot BP. Like a convoluted doctor. Focusing on a townread forces SirCakez if scum to give me the toys and the toys stay in Town hands. Never to go to scum. Therefore by lynching SirCakez we remove townpower indirectly.

A bodyguard shot is entirely harmless in scum's hands; they can't usefully use it.
A bodyguard shot in the hands of an obvtown player is pointless, as they can't save another player without dying themselves (not even if they're bulletproof).
A bodyguard shot in the hands of a scummy-looking townie is very powerful; they can die in the place of someone confirmed, which has the same amount of power as confirming themselves (assuming the shot hits).

Like I said earlier, I thought Firebringer was scummy town who wasn't going to be NKed. He definitely wasn't obvtown.

[MathBlade]

Then we let SirCakez funnel his toys to me and then if you still think Cakez is scum lynch him. No reason to deny Town power because of a SirCakez scum read when he is leashed. If I ever don't get something I will be the first to vote hims.

The fact this wagon has except for some of the N clan the same people voting Creeps makes me hella suspicious of if. Would much rather want a PV wagon.

VOTE: Peregrine V

[MathBlade]

Furthermore if SirCakez ever visits anyone but me then SirCakez would be claiming scum. He gave me a way to verify him and I don't think scum would blatantly do that. As much as SirCakez pings me I don't think that SirCakez's lynch is the right one today.

[BigYoshiFan]

PV looks like desperate lynchbait. I don't trust you, so that answer doesn't satisfy me.

[callforjudgement]

Furthermore if SirCakez ever visits anyone but me then SirCakez would be claiming scum. He gave me a way to verify him and I don't think scum would blatantly do that. As much as SirCakez pings me I don't think that SirCakez's lynch is the right one today.

You do realise this argument doesn't work for anyone but you and Gio, right? It rather presupposes you're town, so won't be convincing much to anyone else.
(Additionally, if SirCakez is scum without a kill, or groupscum where a buddy can kill, verifying SirCakez's entire set of night actions wouldn't prove anything but that they were in fact the Inventor, which is fairly obvious at this point and doesn't need verifying.)

As far as I can see, you've spent the past few (real-life) days trying to deflect the lynch on SirCakez off tenuous reasoning. If you were townreading him, that's one thing; trying to stop the lynch of someone you think is a townread, or preferring the lynch of someone more likely to be scum, is entirely reasonable. However, scumreading him and yet trying to prevent the lynch, without stating good reasons, is problematic and makes it look hugely like you're scum together. It'd be as silly as lynching a townread in possible lylo.

Let me put things this way: it's only Gio's night result that's keeping me from voting you right now. That's how antitown I think you're playing.

[JaeReed]

Let me put things this way: it's only Gio's night result that's keeping me from voting you right now. That's how antitown I think you're playing.

Also my sentiment.

[SirCakez]

PV looks like desperate lynchbait. I don't trust you, so that answer doesn't satisfy me.

"lynchbait" is a stupid reason to townread someone. Just because he's a lynchbaity player doesn't make him always town.

See; street fighter mafia, where he lurked his ass off just like this and he was scum.

Like hell I could be considered lynchbait with how many times I've been mislynched.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore if SirCakez ever visits anyone but me then SirCakez would be claiming scum. He gave me a way to verify him and I don't think scum would blatantly do that. As much as SirCakez pings me I don't think that SirCakez's lynch is the right one today.

You do realise this argument doesn't work for anyone but you and Gio, right? It rather presupposes you're town, so won't be convincing much to anyone else.
(Additionally, if SirCakez is scum without a kill, or groupscum where a buddy can kill, verifying SirCakez's entire set of night actions wouldn't prove anything but that they were in fact the Inventor, which is fairly obvious at this point and doesn't need verifying.)

As far as I can see, you've spent the past few (real-life) days trying to deflect the lynch on SirCakez off tenuous reasoning. If you were townreading him, that's one thing; trying to stop the lynch of someone you think is a townread, or preferring the lynch of someone more likely to be scum, is entirely reasonable. However, scumreading him and yet trying to prevent the lynch, without stating good reasons, is problematic and makes it look hugely like you're scum together. It'd be as silly as lynching a townread in possible lylo.

Let me put things this way: it's only Gio's night result that's keeping me from voting you right now. That's how antitown I think you're playing.

My brain is fried from about 4 hours of job applications but let me put this in the simplest way I know how.

I neither scumread nor townread SirCakez. I used to townread him pretty damn hard.

However I have others I scumread more eg PV. Since everyone is mechanically confirmed at this point except Nahdia which I hope will happen overnight I am forced to play on something I hate playing on which is gut. I'm a mechanical player by nature. Forcing me to be outside of that nature will always appear scummy.

SirCakez has been using his role in a protown manner and has been leashed. I will always write my logic coming from a me town stance because I am town. I cannot see a world in which I am not town because I am town. I can do small hypothesis from time to time as if I'm scum, e.g. if I'm scum why would I do this? But I can't not be town so I can't write in such a way that assumes me not town.

SirCakez if town is also leashed and forced to give all the toys to me and therefore we won't lose them. If he dies what he may think of as an insignificant tool may help town break the game. As soon as D4 hit people have been pressuring SirCakez right around the same time his role was revealed in the hood. This to me feels like a coordinated effort to get rid of a town PR. I has no proof I'm playing by gut but that's where I stand on it. PV IMHO is a much better lynch.

[Nahdia]

Since everyone is mechanically confirmed at this point except Nahdia

except for, you know, Narna's check.......

[Nahdia]

Which you seem to consider to be valid on others but not me. Because fuck me, right?