Newbie 1764: Wind Game Over

[Accountant]

So here it is, what makes you think that statistically I'm scum? Because you are presenting a hit and miss theory with no clear evidence and are just trying to make me look scummy, so you can get out of your situation, which again is you being at L-1

You are one of three members of a group, amongst which two are likely scum. That means that off the bat you have a 2/3 chance of being scum. Gamma is townier than the other 2, so your chance is actually above 2/3. statistically, once again, you are scum.

Now, I find it interesting that you claim I am voting you to get out of being at L-1. Tell me, was I at L-1 when I voted you? Or is it the other way around, and you are opportunistically hopping on a counter wagon?

[Ramcius]

And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town?

For one, he helped to clear nydushermain as town by pointing out his D2 reactions. Why would scum do that? I think scum!Gamma would be likely to try to get nydusher lynched rather than help him out.

i gotta love this, why scum help town in trouble? It an easy way to look towny, i can tell that from personal experience, how you don't know that is mystery to me

[Accountant]

i know, but you didn't answered, why you voted him early in D2, when you was busy, while we have whole 2 weeks? And don't tell me about PoE reasons to get rid of lynchbait, when it's 1 lynch to LyLo

Why would I not vote him? Rather, what is the benefit in delaying my vote on him?

You tell me that voting someone for PoE reasons when it's one lynch to LyLo is bad. Consider the following points:

1) Voting someone is not lynching them.
2) It's better to get rid of lynchbait before LyLo than run the risk of them getting lynched during LyLo and losing town the game.
2) The PoE reason is not to get rid of lynchbait. I think there is actually a significant chance DBW is scum.

[mhsmith0]

Votecount 2.05

nydushermain (1)

ssbm_Kyouko ,

Pepchoninga (2)

Accountant , Gamma Emerald L-2 ,

Accountant (3)

Srceenplay , Pepchoninga , Ramcius L-1 ,

Not Voting (1)

nydushermain ,

Day one deadline is Monday January 8, 4 PM PST. (expired on 2017-01-08 17:00:00)

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch!

[/size]

[Accountant]

i gotta love this, why scum help town in trouble? It an easy way to look towny, i can tell that from personal experience, how you don't know that is mystery to me

The problem is that the credit you get from helping town is little, but the town can go on to cause trouble for you later. For example in LyLo if they are confirmed it's much harder to get them lynched, so instead of a 3/5 chance to lynch town it's only 2/5. Do not underestimate the power of a confirmed townie.

Secondly, I agree that it doesn't fully clear Gamma. That is why he is still on the list. But it makes him look better compared to the others on the list.

[Srceenplay]

When you say you had another game that was more important than this one, so all of your interest was there. Why is that? Was your wincon in jeopardy there but not here?

As an IC can you show me your post were you try to explain to us good town strategy to help us win. Any post as an IC explaining bad actions or strategy for us to avoid?

1) I understand that you viewed them as TvT, but I'm not sure why you came to the conclusion that it was me inciting a TvT. What I am asking is why, upon seeing what you saw, why you thought it was definitely "Accountant is scum who is making town fight" rather than "Accountant is town who is mistaken about who is town and starting conflict between townies by accident". Unless you already know my alignment and are trying to portray me a certain way?

2) I'm not sure what you mean by "wincon in jeopardy", but the other game was LyLo. That means that a single vote being wrong could tilt the outcome of the game in one direction or the other, so it was necessary to be excessively careful about the way I handled the game. In general, LyLo situations are far more difficult to play than playing regular mafia.

3) Post 22 on page 1, outlined in red - you would have seen it if you'd read the game thread.

1: I am not saying you were inciting. I am saying you sat back and let the conflict go. That brings me to

2: You said you had christmas stuff going on. Thats why you were not here. But you were in another game were you explain your wincon is in jeopardy. So that tells you didn't care who got lynched here because your wincon wasn't in jeopardy. Everyone should care who is getting lynched!!

3: I have the entire game! I have continuesly rereading iso's! If post 22 is all that you can say you have as an IC to help as win then you are failing as an IC or are a scum IC.

[Accountant]

1: I am not saying you were inciting. I am saying you sat back and let the conflict go. That brings me to

2: You said you had christmas stuff going on. Thats why you were not here. But you were in another game were you explain your wincon is in jeopardy. So that tells you didn't care who got lynched here because your wincon wasn't in jeopardy. Everyone should care who is getting lynched!!

3: I have the entire game! I have continuesly rereading iso's! If post 22 is all that you can say you have as an IC to help as win then you are failing as an IC or are a scum IC.

1) Oh? What would you have expected me to do? Stop the conflict? But why would I do such a thing? I love conflict, as I said before.

2) With my Christmas stuff going on, I essentially have only enough time to devote my full attention to one game. I decided to pick the game where I was in a tense LyLo over the game where everything was going well and the person I wanted to get lynched(Alisae) was getting lynched. If you think I'm not putting enough effort into this game, you may file a complaint to the mod - I understand that it's the policy in some games to force replace slackers.

3) Let me be very clear about this. I will never offer the players less help as a scum IC than I will as a town IC. Ever. I have made my IC post covering the core concepts I wish to impart. If you have questions about a specific topic or piece of information, ask. Otherwise I don't see the point in clogging up the game with unsolicited advice. This is common and accepted practice for newbie ICs. If you feel I am not performing my duty as an IC, PM Mina and file a complaint.

[Srceenplay]

1) Nydusher is null because my case on him rests on the fact that town has no reason to do the stuff he did. However, I think that he seems like the kind of player to do stuff that I can't see a reason for. Maybe he's just a very whimsical player, or perhaps it's because he plays like this is video mafia and not forum mafia. Still, it's something that makes me re-evaluate. If we take away that, I don't see anything that makes him more scummy than town.
2) Alisae is scum firstly for the buddy on me, secondly for the extremely rapid pace at which they went from "I'm neutral in this, stop fighting you two" to pushing ny almost as hard as me and being very provocative in their wording. This serves two purposes, firstly it reinforces the buddying that they did on me,

secondly being provocative towards someone who you know responds badly under pressure is a textbook scum tactic(see Mini Normal 1825 where gameplay506 provokes rb as scum) to make them look even worse and get an easy mislynch.

The speed seems artificial and makes me think it's a scum tactic rather than a natural progression of reads.

Any questions?

You talk about NY being null now after you road him hard. Why? Because you say it must be his play style? Then in bold ^ you knock Alisea for doing what you were doing??

You talk about NY being null now after you road him hard. Why? Because you say it must be his play style? Then in bold ^ you knock Alisea for doing what you were doing??

Yes, precisely. That's exactly what I said in the very post where I explained why I thought nydusher was town after thinking he was scum early on.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I was knocking Alisae for being intentionally provocative towards nydusher and resorting to attacks of a personal nature, which I could only assume was meant to provoke him. This is not what I have done, so it's not hypocritical like you're saying it is.

I can not can see your difference here. You said you were bulling NY putting him on tilt trying to force a definite answer so you could get a slip from him latter. I still don't understand why he had to say yes or no. it's scary trying to commit when it is impossible to know 100% if you are right. You have been new before you should know that feeling, but you use it against him.

[Accountant]

That is incorrect. I don't wish to lock him into that mindset forever, but I wish to force him to be consistent. It is impossible to 100% know if you are right, but it should not be impossible to 100% know that you thought X at Y period of time and justify it. Unless you're scum.

[Accountant]

For the record I have never been terrified of someone telling me to clearly and unambiguously state yes or no if I think someone is scum.

[Ramcius]

i know, but you didn't answered, why you voted him early in D2, when you was busy, while we have whole 2 weeks? And don't tell me about PoE reasons to get rid of lynchbait, when it's 1 lynch to LyLo

Why would I not vote him? Rather, what is the benefit in delaying my vote on him?

You tell me that voting someone for PoE reasons when it's one lynch to LyLo is bad. Consider the following points:

1) Voting someone is not lynching them.
2) It's better to get rid of lynchbait before LyLo than run the risk of them getting lynched during LyLo and losing town the game.
2) The PoE reason is not to get rid of lynchbait. I think there is actually a significant chance DBW is scum.

1) ofc not, but without voting you can't lynch anyone
2) agree, and that's why i wanted him out D1, we didn't lynched him then, so why rush on him at start of day? It was proven he won't cooperate with us if we push votes on him, so waiting and discussing all options would be wise, but rushing to get lynch isn't looking wise and towny to me
3) Sure, sure, Pep and DBW are scums, i know, Gamma is just little scum lean, everyone have right to have their own opinions, but i prefer facts

And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town?

For one, he helped to clear nydushermain as town by pointing out his D2 reactions. Why would scum do that? I think scum!Gamma would be likely to try to get nydusher lynched rather than help him out.

i gotta love this, why scum help town in trouble? It an easy way to look towny, i can tell that from personal experience, how you don't know that is mystery to me

The problem is that the credit you get from helping town is little, but the town can go on to cause trouble for you later. For example in LyLo if they are confirmed it's much harder to get them lynched, so instead of a 3/5 chance to lynch town it's only 2/5. Do not underestimate the power of a confirmed townie.

Secondly, I agree that it doesn't fully clear Gamma. That is why he is still on the list. But it makes him look better compared to the others on the list.

"Scum Gamma wouldn't do that"
"But scum can easily do so"
"Ok, you right, Gamma can be scum"

And i like your argument with confirmed town, i really like your way to trow me off from tracks, Nyd by far not confirmed town, but if he dies tonight, then Gamma will be more townread for defending town right now, and if talk about conf town, it will be probably me getting NK tonight for that reason

[Accountant]

"Scum Gamma wouldn't do that"
"But scum can easily do so"
"Ok, you right, Gamma can be scum"

Yes, that is why Gamma is

still

on my shit list. I have him listed as nullscum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Accountant why did you naked vote Alisae?

Because I thought she was scum.

On what grounds?

[Accountant]

1) ofc not, but without voting you can't lynch anyone
2) agree, and that's why i wanted him out D1, we didn't lynched him then, so why rush on him at start of day? It was proven he won't cooperate with us if we push votes on him, so waiting and discussing all options would be wise, but rushing to get lynch isn't looking wise and towny to me
3) Sure, sure, Pep and DBW are scums, i know, Gamma is just little scum lean, everyone have right to have their own opinions, but i prefer facts

1) I agree. But then you can't say that me voting someone is equivalent to me trying to quicklynch them.
2) Oh? Where did I rush to lynch DBW? Or was I merely rushing to vote him? Even if he doesn't cooperate, it's useful to see who else rushes to vote him, because it tells me who else doesn't like Gamma.
3) You are asking me why I did a certain thing, so of course my opinion would be a big part of the reasoning for me doing those things.

[Accountant]

2) Alisae is scum firstly for the buddy on me, secondly for the extremely rapid pace at which they went from "I'm neutral in this, stop fighting you two" to pushing ny almost as hard as me and being very provocative in their wording. This serves two purposes, firstly it reinforces the buddying that they did on me, secondly being provocative towards someone who you know responds badly under pressure is a textbook scum tactic(see Mini Normal 1825 where gameplay506 provokes rb as scum) to make them look even worse and get an easy mislynch. The speed seems artificial and makes me think it's a scum tactic rather than a natural progression of reads.

[Ramcius]

"Scum Gamma wouldn't do that"
"But scum can easily do so"
"Ok, you right, Gamma can be scum"

Yes, that is why Gamma is

still

on my shit list. I have him listed as nullscum.

exactly, first you try tell he's can't be scum, cause defended Nyd, but took back later, when i pointed that scum easily could do so

1) I agree. But then you can't say that me voting someone is equivalent to me trying to quicklynch them.
2) Oh? Where did I rush to lynch DBW? Or was I merely rushing to vote him? Even if he doesn't cooperate, it's useful to see who else rushes to vote him, because it tells me who else doesn't like Gamma.
3) You are asking me why I did a certain thing, so of course my opinion would be a big part of the reasoning for me doing those things.

1) i can, you put DBW at L-1, isn't that close enough to lynch?
2) So, you wanted to see who will hammer? And Gamma what have with it? Was Kyo and Nyd votes before yours
3) your opinions should have some ground, and don't tell me other people are so conf town in your eyes, i don't buy that

[Accountant]

exactly, first you try tell he's can't be scum, cause defended Nyd, but took back later, when i pointed that scum easily could do so

I'm not saying Gamma can't be scum, I'm saying he isn't as scummy as the others.

[Accountant]

1) i can, you put DBW at L-1, isn't that close enough to lynch?
2) So, you wanted to see who will hammer? And Gamma what have with it? Was Kyo and Nyd votes before yours
3) your opinions should have some ground, and don't tell me other people are so conf town in your eyes, i don't buy that

1) No. Contrary to popular belief, you need to make one more vote after L-1 before the person can be lynched.

2) I wanted to see who will get on the wagon with me. I also wanted to see who conspicuously wouldn't get on the wagon.

3) There is ground. I scumread DBW because everyone else looked town and someone has to be scum. Do you not buy that I townread you and nydusher?

[Gamma Emerald]

Accountant why did you naked vote Alisae?

Because I thought she was scum.

On what grounds?

Please dont ignore me

[Srceenplay]

And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town?

For one, he helped to clear nydushermain as town by pointing out his D2 reactions. Why would scum do that? I think scum!Gamma would be likely to try to get nydusher lynched rather than help him out.

This sounds weird.
Is that a slip implying that you two are buddies??

[Accountant]

Accountant why did you naked vote Alisae?

Because I thought she was scum.

On what grounds?

Please dont ignore me

Please read post 1164.

[Accountant]

And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town?

For one, he helped to clear nydushermain as town by pointing out his D2 reactions. Why would scum do that? I think scum!Gamma would be likely to try to get nydusher lynched rather than help him out.

This sounds weird.
Is that a slip implying that you two are buddies??

How the heck is this a slip?

[Srceenplay]

And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town?

For one, he helped to clear nydushermain as town by pointing out his D2 reactions. Why would scum do that? I think scum!Gamma would be likely to try to get nydusher lynched rather than help him out.

This sounds weird.
Is that a slip implying that you two are buddies??

How the heck is this a slip?

Like I said it sounds weird, like you are saying you are a team working together.

[Accountant]

Do you have a concrete explanation of how this means we are a team working together or anything less vague than "it sounds weird"?

[Srceenplay]

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't say it means you are a team. I said it sounds weird and then asked a question.