Newbie 1766 - Game Over

[Aeronaut]

I'm gonna vote.

VOTE: the_end

Seriously? NEWS FLASH: THERE IS ONLY 2 SCUM!

oh boyyyyyyyyyy

Okay so who's the better lynch now, Zekrom or FC?

still Zeke

[Aeronaut]

I also refuse to sponsor a wagon with both Zeke and FC on it, especially after that l-1 vote which is really garbage

[ThinkBig]

I do apologize for my level of inactivity this day phase. Hopefully now that the holidays are over, I will have some time to go through everything.

UNVOTE:

Not knowing how many scums there are could actually be considered more of a town slip. A newb townie would not necessarily know how many scums there are if he doesn't really understand the mechanics of the game.

I really REALLY do not like FC's reason for the vote. We need to decide who to lynch as the deadline is soon. I'd support lynching either FC or Zekrom.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.9

the_end (3) - rb, Zekromaster, Friend Computer
Zekromaster (2) - Aeronaut, lucca261
Friend Computer (2) - Sofiel, ssbm_Kyouko
Sofiel (1) - the_end

Not voting (1) - ThinkBig


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Wednesday, 4th January 22.30. GMT, (in (expired on 2017-01-04 22:30:00)).

Notes

Zekromaster has been prodded.

[lucca261]

I'm here at my house right now, so I will be able to have better posts now. Reading now.

[lucca261]

hey Think, what was your reason at all to vote End?

it was just the scumreads on the readlist? or you scumread him for other reasons?

why do you think Zekrom was townier than Friend and End?

[lucca261]

my second readslist:

TOWN
- aeronaut: liking his posts. he is seeing this game from a town point of view, and is trying to look for scum. liked his exchange with Kyouko, and he seems to be effectively reading the thread and trying to look for scum, instead of just asking questions without any followup.
- end: I'm at the point where i'm thinking end's wagon was clearly a mislynch bait. he is clear-headed, analyse things and seems to think for himself, without sheeping other player thoughts.
- rb: after the strong start, he seemed to stopped scumhunting, and I don't know why his vote is still on end. he could be more present. I feel like his posts are asking why kyouko is the leading wagon, and trying to lynch end.
- sofiel: mostly by POE. sofiel stepped up. his posts seem to be looking for scum. but his #220 concerns me. especially where the part where he says: "hey, if Friend doesn't work tonight, let's look at Zekrom tomorrow" this is lining up lynches, and feels like scum that knows friend will flip town.
- think: his vote on end concerns me, and the unvote exactly when things started to change makes me feel uneasy. he is going with the flow.
- friend: his wagon makes me think he is townier. it feels like he made a bad vote, and now scum are trying to use the vote to make a counterwagon to zekrom.
- kyouko: still think he's scummy, but he's not getting lynched tonight. his posts feel like a mixed bag, and he seems to change wagons everytime the wagon he is is gaining force. that's a strange mindset for a town player.
- zekrom: everything makes sense if he's scum. he's coasting, trying to look town, parroting other people opinions...and it's crazy how much unspoken resistance there is to his wagon.

---

@zekrom, what is your view on the friend vote right now?
@friend, any reasons for your vote at end beside the readlist?
@end, can I interest you with a Zekro lynch?
@aero, what's your read on Kyouko?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also refuse to sponsor a wagon with both Zeke and FC on it, especially after that l-1 vote which is really garbage

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like Zeke is still scummy but I'm not clearing FC on the basis he's too scummy to be scum, slot needs rope

[rb]

my god i fucking hate the holidays and also im so bad at keeping activity up beyond start of game

someone defibrillate me pls

[rb]

my second readslist:

TOWN
- aeronaut: liking his posts. he is seeing this game from a town point of view, and is trying to look for scum. liked his exchange with Kyouko, and he seems to be effectively reading the thread and trying to look for scum, instead of just asking questions without any followup.
- end: I'm at the point where i'm thinking end's wagon was clearly a mislynch bait. he is clear-headed, analyse things and seems to think for himself, without sheeping other player thoughts.
- rb: after the strong start, he seemed to stopped scumhunting, and I don't know why his vote is still on end. he could be more present. I feel like his posts are asking why kyouko is the leading wagon, and trying to lynch end.
- sofiel: mostly by POE. sofiel stepped up. his posts seem to be looking for scum. but his #220 concerns me. especially where the part where he says: "hey, if Friend doesn't work tonight, let's look at Zekrom tomorrow" this is lining up lynches, and feels like scum that knows friend will flip town.
- think: his vote on end concerns me, and the unvote exactly when things started to change makes me feel uneasy. he is going with the flow.
- friend: his wagon makes me think he is townier. it feels like he made a bad vote, and now scum are trying to use the vote to make a counterwagon to zekrom.
- kyouko: still think he's scummy, but he's not getting lynched tonight. his posts feel like a mixed bag, and he seems to change wagons everytime the wagon he is is gaining force. that's a strange mindset for a town player.
- zekrom: everything makes sense if he's scum. he's coasting, trying to look town, parroting other people opinions...and it's crazy how much unspoken resistance there is to his wagon.

---

@zekrom, what is your view on the friend vote right now?
@friend, any reasons for your vote at end beside the readlist?
@end, can I interest you with a Zekro lynch?
@aero, what's your read on Kyouko?

can you show me where zekrom is coasting and parroting?

[Zekromaster]

my second readslist:
*snip*
@zekrom, what is your view on the friend vote right now?

I'm still suspecting the_end of being scum, and I still don't know what to say about FC.
I talked about being suspicious of the_end. This is because FC voted for him with no reason. He either is scum and is just getting onto a wagon to get a fast vote (and this would render all the reasons to vote for the_end pretty much void) - but I don't understand why wouldn't he get on my wagon, at this point - or is town and getting on some wagon that seems "good".

While I don't have a good read of FC, I still find the_end's behaviour pretty scummy, so I'll stand by my vote. I'm pretty much gambling at this point.


Could I ask all the the_end voters the exact reasons they are voting for him? I think I was pretty clear about it in posts #174 and #148 (he basically scumread everyone except two people, and only had a single townread, which coupled with him trying not to get on wagons or push for lynches himself makes me think he's scum) but if someone doesn't understand something I'll be happy to clarify.

[Sofiel]

"hey, if Friend doesn't work tonight, let's look at Zekrom tomorrow" this is lining up lynches, and feels like scum that knows friend will flip town.

I wasn't saying if Friend 'doesn't work' tonight we should look at Zekro altho I can see why it could be construed like that. I'm pretty confident on FC as scum and I was saying with the new information tomorrow (which is what i meant by after the waters settle but could've used a better sentence) we can look at Zekro closer - i.e. see how things look after the first night + the info from D1

[the_end]

My issue with it though is that you had said they were leaning scum to you, and then you gave reasons why they could also not be scum. There's no strong stances in that list, and that looks incredibly shady to me.

Like I said in my response in #165, I was arguing a players allegiance from both their scum-like and town-like actions. After weighing both sides I decided my stand on players' allegiance. There isn't any player who I'm sure is scum (At the moment, I dont think there's any player who thinks any other player is definitely scum). Admittedly there were no strong stances, but that is simply because it was still quite early in Day 1.

As much as FC is being utterly useless, I also don't really want to lynch him today because A) it's going to give us minimal information and not much to work with tomorrow, B) he's likely to get replaced. Zeke is a better lynch in my opinion because he's posting more, but saying less.

I have to disagree. I think FC being "utterly useless" is why I think he should be lynched. As I mentioned in my first readlist, I feel that players who don't post a lot (I mean content, not the number of posts) are scummy because by posting less they're drawing less attention to themselves. See below also my response to lucca.

@end, can I interest you with a Zekro lynch?

I was thinking along the lines of an FC lynch. I think FC has contributed very little to the discussion overall. FC said he was going to do a readlist and a post-by-post more than a week ago but he hasn't. If you go through FC's posts they're literally just a line each. At least zekro is contributing with expressing opinions and reasons (however shitty I may think they are). Day 1 lynches aren't likely to find scum, and it seems that they're mostly to get a feeling for all the players. I'd rather lynch the suspicious player with the least significant posts and most bandwagoning and coasting, which in this case is FC. This is not to say I dont suspect zekro

VOTE: Friend Computer

@rb

The holidays are now over, I'd like to see you respond to my question in #178 and to Aero in #218 and #224.

[lucca261]

my second readslist:

TOWN
- aeronaut: liking his posts. he is seeing this game from a town point of view, and is trying to look for scum. liked his exchange with Kyouko, and he seems to be effectively reading the thread and trying to look for scum, instead of just asking questions without any followup.
- end: I'm at the point where i'm thinking end's wagon was clearly a mislynch bait. he is clear-headed, analyse things and seems to think for himself, without sheeping other player thoughts.
- rb: after the strong start, he seemed to stopped scumhunting, and I don't know why his vote is still on end. he could be more present. I feel like his posts are asking why kyouko is the leading wagon, and trying to lynch end.
- sofiel: mostly by POE. sofiel stepped up. his posts seem to be looking for scum. but his #220 concerns me. especially where the part where he says: "hey, if Friend doesn't work tonight, let's look at Zekrom tomorrow" this is lining up lynches, and feels like scum that knows friend will flip town.
- think: his vote on end concerns me, and the unvote exactly when things started to change makes me feel uneasy. he is going with the flow.
- friend: his wagon makes me think he is townier. it feels like he made a bad vote, and now scum are trying to use the vote to make a counterwagon to zekrom.
- kyouko: still think he's scummy, but he's not getting lynched tonight. his posts feel like a mixed bag, and he seems to change wagons everytime the wagon he is is gaining force. that's a strange mindset for a town player.
- zekrom: everything makes sense if he's scum. he's coasting, trying to look town, parroting other people opinions...and it's crazy how much unspoken resistance there is to his wagon.

---

@zekrom, what is your view on the friend vote right now?
@friend, any reasons for your vote at end beside the readlist?
@end, can I interest you with a Zekro lynch?
@aero, what's your read on Kyouko?

can you show me where zekrom is coasting and parroting?

did a post on it: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8658067

[lucca261]

my second readslist:
*snip*
@zekrom, what is your view on the friend vote right now?

I'm still suspecting the_end of being scum, and I still don't know what to say about FC.
I talked about being suspicious of the_end. This is because FC voted for him with no reason. He either is scum and is just getting onto a wagon to get a fast vote (and this would render all the reasons to vote for the_end pretty much void) - but I don't understand why wouldn't he get on my wagon, at this point - or is town and getting on some wagon that seems "good".

While I don't have a good read of FC, I still find the_end's behaviour pretty scummy, so I'll stand by my vote. I'm pretty much gambling at this point.


Could I ask all the the_end voters the exact reasons they are voting for him? I think I was pretty clear about it in posts #174 and #148 (he basically scumread everyone except two people, and only had a single townread, which coupled with him trying not to get on wagons or push for lynches himself makes me think he's scum) but if someone doesn't understand something I'll be happy to clarify.

Why do you think scumreading everyone and having just one townread is scummy? If anything, it's easier for scum to have a bigger number of townreads. It's easier to explain a townread than a scumread, and it can be used as towncred when people die. The thing about him not wanting to get on wagons i'll give you.

Can you do a readslist for me?

[rb]

No because scum don't usually make big townblocks because then they have to explain why they're suddenly townreading someone

[rb]

Suddenly voting someone they townread*** i mean

[rb]

Making a big townblock is like the one thing I've never seen scum do, even for towncred because the disadvantages of trying to break the townblock down to get mislynches as scum just so far outweighs any townreads you might get and also, the people you townread are often suspicious anyway.

Scum might try it but they'll still die because of it because their contradictory nature of voting townreads and trying to backtrack constantly is just impossible for even good scum players to cover up

[lucca261]

but scum would usually make something like:

- 1 strong townread
- 2 small townreads
- 3 nulls
- 2 scumreads

saying that over half the game is a scumread would not be a strong play by scum. if you are scum you are trying to look towny, and stating this would put you under a microscope that scum doesn't want. but this is getting nowhere, and it's not alignment indictive, at least to me.

[rb]

i don't think he knows it looks not towny

[Huntress]

Friend Computer has been prodded.

[Sofiel]

Not a lot of time left. Can we reach a consensus? I don't want to have a no-lynch D1. I'm still for FC and I just feel like the prod goes to prove me more. I'll move to another wagon if we have to but FC is a really good case as far as I'm concerned & I'd bet on him being scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh shoot 10 hrs uhh that's at 2 my time. I work tomorrow 11-8 so i have break scheduled at 1 but sometimes it's late.
Gonna have 15 minutes in there within an hour of deadline hopefully
Will only vote FC/zeke/the_end

[Zekromaster]

Why do you think scumreading everyone and having just one townread is scummy? If anything, it's easier for scum to have a bigger number of townreads. It's easier to explain a townread than a scumread, and it can be used as towncred when people die. The thing about him not wanting to get on wagons i'll give you.

Can you do a readslist for me?

I still stand by the readlist in #148.

Also, if he accuses everyone of being scum, he'll basically be open for any lynch. Anyone who is offered for lynch, he can vote without raising suspicions, except his "townread". He also has some nullreads on some people and a townread, which may be both to defend a possible scumpartner (but I'm not sure on this. I think it he wouldn't townread his own partner, but that's how I would play if I was him, and doesn't mean much. Also, kyouko's pretty incospicuous. Him offering to vote for the_end in his last post makes me think they may not be the scumteam) or to avoid scumreading the entire player list, and three of his "scumreads" were people who would've been wagoned on pretty easily (inactives).
Also, some of the reasons for reading scum look constructed, especially his rb scumread, which are mostly based around his want for a lynch and nothing else.


Also, I suggest we don't actively try to lynch FC. I'd be okay with an FC lynch if it happens anyway, feel free to vote for him if you don't know where to place your vote, he's been inactive and basically we were already playing without him, but we'd be risking removing a player before he even starts playing the game, while he may be town (for me, he is still null, but my major scumread was placed somewhere else) and may get replaced with someone who may prove useful for the town.
That's a lot of "may"s, but it's the most likely outcome. Can we please lynch FC only as a last resort?