Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Gamma Emerald]

Alisae, this is not town play. Either you're playing wrong, you're SK, or you're scum and the real vig is off whereever

[Alisae]

What with the pre-flip association?
This game is getting closed to solved. I'm trying to figure out how to solve it.
Or calling Titus scum? I don't like how she's been playing since she was confirmed town and leading wagons on town.

[Gamma Emerald]

OK, but all this lack of consideration for Titus just being lazy is disturbing.

[Alisae]

For what reason is she allowed to be lazy?

[Gamma Emerald]

I trust her reasons for being lazy.

[Alisae]

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I feel it is town motivated. I think she believes she has very solid reasons for her read and wants others to come to the same conclusion. Same thing I did with Sonia.

[Alisae]

I can understand that, but wouldn't it be more helpful for her to lead others along her thought process?

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe. I'm not sure.

[Alisae]

Like she's saying she has shit, but I don't feel like she's trying to help us get there. Like I feel like I'm playing a game of 20 questions when I do think about it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No Kyouko. I am not shooting townies because you are scum.
Hey Elbrin, hammer this guy already for us?

Hey, you will shoot my requests if I'm lynched today because I will flip town and you will reconsider your wrong perceptions.

Titus Children are hard to control sometimes. But they can be right too.
And notice how hard it was to get a wagon on Kyouko?
It was a lot easier to get a wagon going on Tywin, don't chu think?
I wonder why that is.

Yeah, I definitely noticed how difficult it was to get me to L-1. [/sarcasm]
Seriously, do you even think before you post?

If you say I make a move

as scum

if: and then follow it by 2 scenarios

1)Tywin is town
2)Tywin is scum

then say that 2 doesn't make sense (again,

if I'm scum

) then all you're doing is assuming I'm scum then coming to the conclusion that because I'm scum and I didn't vote, that I'm not bussing, which means Tywin must be town. That does not make sense, you never consider why I would unvote there and keep my vote off Tywin if I were town. How is this not either a)Reading Tywin off of preflip associations or b)confbiasing scum!Kyouko theories?

Can you even explain why you scumread on me? I feel like the whole case on me is speculation based around the traitor discussion and people thinking that Cloud was trying to signal me. There are probably 4-6 people you could make that case on based on CK's posts.
I did not want this day to end early and still don't want it to end. Nero and Sonia have been almost silent today as far as their content goes. If Tywin is town, the longer the day goes on without town lynching each other, the more scum will have to show their hand. I think right now you're being forced to show your hand because we didn't speedlynch Tywin. Your alignment will be revealed more and more the longer we talk, so if you're town (which I seriously doubt right now) you may be able to convince the rest of us, but if you're scum, the longer this lasts, the more obvious you will be when it's all over.

So the entire post was directed at Gamma who claimed because you were calling Tywin on not self voting, you must be town. That line of thought is bullshit so I showed the scenarios for which scum would do the same. You and Tywin shouldn't be able to be scum together due to your actions so your scum flip clears Tywin.

However, i'm going to have to unvote. My general philosophy is to make a case against anyone to create a wagon (even though this one... really didn't need help) but I can't find enough of a case to convince myself at this point in time. I feel like I'm missing a buttload of posts that made me scumread you in the first place, so I'll keep looking.

UNVOTE:

Still got my eye on you, don't see why if Tywin and I can't be a team you wouldn't lynch Tywin to clear me instead, it seems like there are more points for scum!Tywin than scum!Kyouko. Still want to hear from the others on my wagon as to why they're here.

Either way, I'm conflicted about Tywin. I'm not sure on him atm. I'm much more sure on Kyouko.

Issue is, Tywin's pushed himself into a level of WIFOM that's just harmful for the town at large.

I don't disagree here. AJ is right. I'm 'okay' with getting lynched. I knew it was inevitable since day 1. I didn't think I'd make it this far.

All I'm doing now is trying to give any information possible so that town can catch scum on Day 4 and (hopefully) past that. So after my flip, some players should be looked at for their role in my lynch, combined with their roles in the Lapsa and moz lynches. Three town lynches means people better have damn good reasons for it. If not, they've got to be considered probable scum until further notice.

Aside from that, I probably should be the lynch today. That doesn't excuse the early wagoners who didn't give reasons for their votes. A scum case on me absolutely should be given, regardless of the fact that I know I'm town. Voting me means you believe I'm scum, so give a case and put in the work to show WHY you believe that. People should never, ever be allowed to sheep wagons consistently and not be grilled for it.

If you REALLY wanted to give information for after your flip you wouldn't selfvote.

This is why I didn't self-hammer when calling who should be shot after my flip, not going to take that info away from town

Hey Gamma, there's such a thing as proof.

Proof of what? That Gamma's scum? Can you post some of it?

I'm really tired of how blind Alisae is to Tywin's scumminess, and after voting him no less.
Alisae, stop playing like you got a red role PM.

Best part about this post is I'm not blind.
I like his words more and I agree with a Kyouko, Gamma, Titus/Pine scumteam.
A Kyouko flip tells me a lot of information. Kyouko Lynch means Game_Solved.

If I'm town, which 2 players are scum? You say my lynch solves the game but have shown no indication that you're even considering that I'll flip town, which I will. I'm assuming you think scum!Kyouko would be with scum!Gamma? If not, who would I be scum with?

[Alisae]

If you're town, scum is probably within the pool of AJ, Tywin, Nero, Elbrin.
And I've been showing consideration towards that.
And yes, I am assuming Kyouko and Gamma are on the same scumteam together.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That doesn't seem like a lot of information to me tbh. That seems like you'll be arriving at exactly the same conclusion as Titus only you have to flip me to see I'm town and she doesn't. You think scum!Elbrin refuses to hammer me and talks you down from voting town!Kyouko into voting Gamma? Do you think he's trying to pocket me?

[Alisae]

On the information part pretty much. This game is a coin at this point.
Yes.
Well do you TR him? If so then it worked pretty well.

[Nero Cain]

Why exactly are we shooting me if SSBM flips town?

[Alisae]

Why exactly are we shooting me if SSBM flips town?

I'm not shooting you if Kyouko flips town, because we're not flipping Kyouko. We're flipping Gamma. Come join the wagon.

[Alisae]

But to answer your question Nero.
One word:
Titus

[Nero Cain]

I wasn't town reading Gamma either so

vote:Gamma

pls don't listen to an OMGUSing Titus.

[Alisae]

Gamma is at L-1.

DO NOT HAMMER JUST YET.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm still trying to sort out where the scum are. I'm aware that what he is doing could be an attempt to pocket me but could also be town pointing out how silly you're being.
I was sitting at L-1 with Gamma chainsawing for me and Elbirn whiteknighting me, and Aj, the player who I felt was scummiest on my wagon made an unvote that looked like it could actually be coming from town, or it could just be that scum!Aj realized my wagon isn't going to go through today, I really don't know at this point.

My only TRs at this point are you Titus and Gerry. I feel like the scum are pretty involved right now so I'm leaning away from scum!Sonia

[Alisae]

I wanna talk to Sonia and Garry before that happens.
And I wanna leave this:

Dear Town,
I am likely to get NK'd today. So in the event I get NK'd do the following things
Gamma town flip: Consider everyone that's on the wagon as a lynch. I'll be shooting from the wagon. Sheep Titus, Garry, and probably Sonia.
Gamma Scum flip: Scum Kyouko and Scum Pine need to be dealt with and maybe Scum Titus if it really comes down to that. I will be shooting either Kyouko or Pine.
Love, Alisae

PS. Titus could be scum odd night doc but it's very unlikely.

I leave the game in good hands.

[Alisae]

My only TRs at this point are you Titus and Gerry.

I feel like the scum are pretty involved right now

so I'm leaning away from scum!Sonia

Fruit for thought. How many times have you slipped again?

[Gamma Emerald]

I wanna talk to Sonia and Garry before that happens.
And I wanna leave this:

Dear Town,
I am likely to get NK'd today. So in the event I get NK'd do the following things
Gamma town flip: Consider everyone that's on the wagon as a lynch. I'll be shooting from the wagon. Sheep Titus, Garry,

and probably Sonia.

Gamma Scum flip: Scum Kyouko and Scum Pine need to be dealt with and maybe Scum Titus if it really comes down to that. I will be shooting either Kyouko or Pine.
Love, Alisae

PS. Titus could be scum odd night doc but it's very unlikely.

I leave the game in good hands.

No to the bolded.

[Alisae]

Fine.

[Aj The Epic]

scum!Aj realized my wagon isn't going to go through today, I really don't know at this point.

...It would most likely have happened had I not unvoted.