Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[drealmerz7]

which is exactly why you're scum, but, hey, I'm done pushing you for now

ppl can agree or not, of course

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

which is exactly why you're scum, but, hey, I'm done pushing you for now

ppl can agree or not, of course

Who this at?

[drealmerz7]

sorry got interupted and missed the p-edit to clarify

@mastina

[pisskop]

I cannot take a push from you seriously drealz.

why is mastina scumzorz

[mastina]

There's definitely credit to be had in bussing him.

Oh yes. There certainly is. And you're gonna love this.

I

have

bussed Nacho before.

...A grand total of once. Pine was in that game, too!

It was called Mafia on Werewolf Island.
Funny story, there.
I bussed both my scumbuddies, Nacho AND T-Bone that game.
I also set up a softclaim of cop, CONVINCED that there was no actual cop in the game. Why I thought that, god only knows, but I was absolutely CONVINCED there was no cop in the game.
So much so, that when a player did in fact claim cop...as the last member of the mafia, I counterclaimed the cop, insisting said cop could only be a werewolf because I legit believed they were a werewolf fakeclaiming cop, just as I was mafia fakeclaiming cop.
...Turned out, the cop was a cop.

The next day, I truthfully claimed that I was a doctor. (I was a mafia doctor.) I truthfully claimed the above: that I was convinced that there was no cop in the game, and that the cop was a werewolf fakeclaiming. These were both 100% true facts. And yet, on suspicion of me being a WEREWOLF (the faction the town was interested in lynching), they lynched me, because they thought for sure that I wouldn't have double-bussed and that I was therefore a werewolf lying through my ass.

And funnily enough, JUST after I was hammered, they realized, "Oh, shit. You're not scum-werewolf, are you? You were the last mafia scum, weren't you?" Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
That's my Nacho-bussing story right there.
And the wolves went on to sweep the game after that because the town REALLY didn't need a mafia lynch. They REALLY needed a werewolf lynch, I was swearing to them I wasn't a werewolf, they didn't believe I wasn't a werewolf even though I wasn't, so by lynching mafia they ended up losing the game.

Good times.

[Pine]

Oh jeez, that game.

[mastina]

(Incidentally, that was one of the games which shaped my belief in exploiting third parties even malevolent ones. I didn't claim mafia for two reasons: fear of a modkill, and fear that any chance of escaping the noose would be thrown out by having done so and they'd lynch me because a scum lynch is a scum lynch. But had they asked if I was mafia BEFORE my lynch, rather than AFTER my lynch, at that point I probably would have just honestly said, "Yes. Very stupid, idiotic mafia, but mafia all the same. I realize you need to lynch me at some point, but right now I REALLY don't want the wolves to win and if it's a choice between the wolves and you, I'd want you to win so I'd prefer to help you there and I can't do that if you lynch me." Who knows if that'd have worked or not though.)

[mastina]

(Also, that's basically one of the only games where I as scum got to lynch Pine! Who, otherwise, would be a choice nightkill of mine.)

[camn]

@Camn, who picked first in the draft?

After the playerlist was set.. Pine and I DRAFTED players. He went first, and we traded off until he was full.

[mastina]

Mastina is another player people gravitate around when they dont need to.

Which is funny.
Annoyingly enough, there's a consistent pattern to this.
When I specifically am not interested in people sheeping me, I have people who then proceed to sheep me, in spite of multiple times me insisting that I'm just pursuing my own thing, that I've got nothing real, that what I'm going after is probably wrong and I have zero confidence in it being right, with it simply being a best guess of mine.

When I specifically state I am aiming for people to sheep me, nobody does. They laugh. They go lolmastina. They call me scum. They call me names. And in the end, I get to watch the town loses and go, "I fucking warned you, but nooooooooooooooooo" in postgame because nobody bothered to actually follow me when I asked them to.

And the funny thing is, the two seem to reinforce each other.
When I am right, people will point to those times I was right, as justification for following me even after I tell them not to.
When I am wrong, people will point to those times I was wrong, as justification for NOT following me even after I explain to them exactly why I didn't want to be followed then but I DO want to be followed now.

It's pretty headbangingly painful to watch play out, time and time again.

Guess which one I'm in right now?

[drealmerz7]

@Camn, who picked first in the draft?

After the playerlist was set.. Pine and I DRAFTED players. He went first, and we traded off until he was full.

excellent

[drealmerz7]

I had read that before, I was just getting it repeated (:

[pisskop]

You read as town for now, but we'll see who does what later.

[mastina]

I can soul-read pine pretty much, yep, go figure

Fuck your claim of being able to do this and recognize that *I* am the one who actually can. Pine was one of my first, and closest friends, and bitter rivals, and nobody knows how he operates better than I do. You lack the game experience and you lack the personal connection. I have both. That's not arrogance speaking. That's just pure simple fact. I have the most games with Pine of any player. I have the most personal connection to Pine of any player.

You can assume that Pine wouldn't let me be town given these factors--that's fair.
You can assume that with Pine not letting me town given these factors and having made me scum, that when I say something I have manipulated it towards a scum agenda.
But the simple fact is, I am town. So I am here to wreck Pine.

That being said: you're right on one thing.

he thought he'd fuck with us by not fucking with us for the draft choices and we'd spend whatever energy trying to figure that out would be his-fuck-with-us meanwhile he has simply chosen who he wants on his team, SIMPLE AS THAT

It really is that simple, because he really does operate that way.

You just selected the wrong people for his team.
Guarantee you: since I wasn't his first pick, Nacho was.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Fuck your claim of being able to do this and recognize that *I* am the one who actually can. Pine was one of my first, and closest friends, and bitter rivals, and nobody knows how he operates better than I do. You lack the game experience and you lack the personal connection. I have both. That's not arrogance speaking. That's just pure simple fact. I have the most games with Pine of any player. I have the most personal connection to Pine of any player.

I'm thinking its more ego related at this point

Looks like I was right

[Aeronaut]

it's unfortunate your scum game isn't as refined, you should play more

Case'n'point that you don't know me.

My scumgame is the most refined of any player on mafiascum. There's a damn good reason I was nominated for Don Corelone on consecutive years. (I lost both times, but I was nommed all the same.) You'll never find a player more self-conscious about their own meta than me. You'll never see a player who better knows what she can do, what she can't do, what she does and can't replicate/hide as an alignment, and what she does that can be replicated/hidden as an alignment*.

There's a reason why I take elements from my scumgame when playing town. No seriously. I deliberately take elements from my scumgame into my towngame. Rather than vice-versa. You know why I take elements from my scumgame into my towngame, rather than elements of my towngame into my scumgame? Because my scumgame needs nothing to improve; my towngame needs desperately to improve.

So if you do something that looks like your scumgame, that's just your town game? Cool, I'll keep that in mind

where do you think I should direct them? TRGNT, eh?

Or Aeronaut, or Nacho.

anywhere but you, I'm sure

Quite the opposite. Fuck focusing on Btd6, Fate, Monokuma, pisskop, Prism, SirCakez, or Vaxkiller. All that'll do is serve to demonstrate what we already know: you're town, they're town, your efforts there would be town-town, and thus a waste of time.

Mastin, tell me honestly; do you think that Pine looked at this playerlist and blatantly picked only people were "older" players?

[mastina]

Does Mastina post these analytical posts a high majority of the time no matter alignment or is this a rare thing?

It's a really rare thing.

As scum I usually tend to be disinterested in the game because I just assume I'm going to win, but there's always exceptions: a game I feel I can't just autocruise to victory and need early towncred in. A game where the concept is something I absolutely adore and thus want to jump into instantly. Things like that will cause me to be active as scum.

As town I do tend to be slightly more enthusiastic because I have a challenge of proving I'm not incompetent. However, I don't usually share analysis early. That's ridiculously rare from me. My early enthusiasm takes form in other ways most commonly. Also, my towngame tends to suffer from apathy if I lack a plan, if I lack direction, so that can and will cause my activity to plummet sharply. Because of this, a highly active, analytical start to my game is really rare as either alignment.

The reason why it's happening here, though, should be self-evident enough: this is a game I am REALLY excited about. Like, I was excited about DEFCON, because I knew it was going to be a blast (ha) to play in, and I expected lolnukes to be flying everywhere and for me to die quickly and be left at that. But the excitement I felt for this game is an entirely different type of excitement, because here I actually get to show off my skills. I was thinking it'd be as scum, which I usually come in thinking anyway (most of my plans start as scum plans, and then when I draw town I'm forced to modify and adapt them to accommodate my alignment), but because it's town, I get to show you such beautiful things. Aspects of my play I didn't get to show off in Defcon, namely, me actually scumhunting. Me actually putting in real effort. My thought process. My psychological profiling at its finest. Strengths, weaknesses, meta behind the players, the whole works. And I get to play against Pine, my first mafia rival. My first frenemy. The guy I know better than almost any other player, especially as time has passed. (Early Pine games? Knew nothing about him. Later Pine games? Had intimately been exposed to his thought process, including hydraing with him.) I have reason to be this way as either alignment, though, so the judgment call on why I'm this way is yours to make.

She also said that both Nacho and herself cant be scum together for reasons she has explained multiple times.

Actually, no. Nacho and I could both be scum.
It's FATE and Nacho who cannot both be scum, because whoever Pine didn't pick, camn would.

camn had no reason to draft me. So Pine absolutely COULD have picked me as scum.

Now, granted, if Nacho is scum as I feel he is, my push on him would probably make me be viewed as obvtown. But I'd be just that: obvtown, not conftown. Because there'd always be the possibility I bussed. (My lifespan this game is probably limited anyway though because scum will likely want me dead no matter what, so it won't take long for me to die.)

I can see it now, a wall sized bulletin board with pins and strings leading everywhere. If she is town, i can see someone flipping an alignment she didnt produce so she corrects her massive read board to calculate in how they flipped. If she is scum, she has piles of notes to justify why her read was wrong and line up another lynch.

Actually not that far off, but you have to keep in mind that my mind is basically a gigantic bulletin board with pins and strings leading everywhere, so I keep it all in my brain. I don't take physical notes, except whenever I PM the mod. (Usually to convey info to the dead/spectator thread, like, "what the fuck my plan is right now". As town because I feel the need to justify my actions, as scum to gloat. Because as town I feel like I undergo the hero's journey, and as scum I feel like a supervillain.)

As town I try to map out every happenstance and see where things lead, balancing a series of possibilities versus probabilities. The way my mind works in a game is that, at all times, I am simultaneously right and wrong on everyone, because I both see everyone as scum and everyone as town. Because all are possible, I then have to work out which are the most likely: what is actually relevant, versus what is just worthless. What looks good, versus what actually

is

good. What looks scummy, versus what actually comes from scum. I weigh every action, I look at things both microscopically and macroscopically, by seeing things on an individual level and also seeing them on the whole. I calculate the odds consistently, every step of the way, to come to conclusions, and from these conclusions, I form my plans.

As scum, I see strings. I see myself as the puppeteer. I see myself pulling at the select strings I need to manipulate people my way. I see the strings which control the system. I use situational awareness at its purest form, psychologically profiling each player to know their strengths and their weaknesses. (Keep in mind I often have more knowledge of a player than I'll admit to, because I use a ton of alts.) I know what each of them is likely to see. I know how each of them is likely to act. And I subtly push things so that they turn on each other, and direct actions so that they stay on each other, rather than realizing they're engaged in town-v-town arguments. If a townbloc forms without me in it, I exploit paranoia to break it apart. If a townbloc forms with me in it, I work to keep paranoia from forming and easily allow the townbloc to lynch town outside of said townbloc. If players scumread me--which I can tell when they will or will not--I use their scumread on me to my advantage. I paint our exchanges in a way which makes the rest of the town think they are townVtown, invalidating their valid points. I will churn out reads which they try to decipher: they correctly assume me to be scum, but assume my reads that I generate are geared towards survival, rather than the truth, which is...to mislead them. So they go scumreading players I want scumread, and townreading players I want townread, because I direct them to do so not by my actions, but by their own, by faulty assumptions they are wont to make.

So your description? A pretty apt one, I'd say.

[mastina]

Well, besides his entrance, not really. I also don't really see it as auto-town either though. I see it as something he'd do in almost any scenario.

This is a scumpost, by the way.

See if you can figure out why.

[Aeronaut]

Or, better yet;

Lets say you know Pine the best out of all of us (I wonder where I may have gotten that impression?). Pine is not trying to help you win, don't you think Pine would intentionally do some non-pine things so that you'd blatantly defend his scum partners?

[mastina]

Who's super town btdubs

You.
Also drealmerz.
Prism's pretty great, too.

That should give you a mighty fine start.

[drealmerz7]

@mastina - I wasn't asking you about your ability to (soul) read on pine, but about my, what I feel like, is a fresh-new-growing-not-nearly-fully-yet-formed ability to

btw pine, I wanted to say thank you for the way you've been withme, respectful, considerate, friendly, I assure you I'm not some sidekickish puppy who just wants you to like me, if by anychance I come off that way - also in case you were worried I don't stalk you to games, we've just happened to be in a few together, I only pick games based on if I think the mod/setup look interesting, and then there you are!

okgottamakedinner

[mastina]

Stop voting based on pregame speculation of who Pine would and wouldn't pick.

Okay.
Here's non-spec reasons.
Iso me. Look for what I say on Aeronaut and TheRealGin-N-Tonic.
If that's not enough, go to iso them. Do a triple-iso even: overlay my posts with theirs, so you see what I talk about as I talk about it, in regards to them.

There.

[Pine]

@mastina - I wasn't asking you about your ability to (soul) read on pine, but about my, what I feel like, is a fresh-new-growing-not-nearly-fully-yet-formed ability to

btw pine, I wanted to say thank you for the way you've been withme, respectful, considerate, friendly, I assure you I'm not some sidekickish puppy who just wants you to like me, if by anychance I come off that way - also in case you were worried I don't stalk you to games, we've just happened to be in a few together, I only pick games based on if I think the mod/setup look interesting, and then there you are!

okgottamakedinner

Aww, you're sweet! Are you my Traitor?

[mastina]

mastina you sound like my alter-fucking-ego

Sorry, chum, but I've been around since before you were born. If one of us looks at all like an aspect of the other, it's you to me.

And to be fair, I do recognize some of me in you.
Which is why I know telling you that you're wrong won't actually have any effect on you whatsoever, but oh well, I like doing so anyway because you never know, you might actually listen someday when you realize what I've been doing. But, nah. It's better to have been wrong and stood your ground than to back down and be a coward, right? Which is why you won't.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So mastin, on a scale of 1 to wrong, how sure are you that I'm scum?