Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[BlackVoid]

Also, does knowing that Cloudkicker does the same thing regarding townslips as scum affect your read on Naomi?

[Dierfire]

I didn't really finish with Flubbernugget in 1550 but I can elaborate now with a stronger version; Flubbernugget has a low level of effort to solve the game. He asks few questions, certainly fewer than he answers, and although promising to catch up multiple times (1516 most recently) he never returns with a significant contribution.
---
My read on culted is purely POE; again, I feel like I'm not far from responding to Kairal the way that culted does. However, culted has a certain focus on Kairal that doesn't quite accord with trying to read alignments on other players, including 1365 (read on I Am Innocent that goes strongly against the trend, but without reasons that seem like culted is trying to actually change any minds such that it reads like setting up a secondary attack on Kairal in 1366)

I also felt that this quote in response to Kairal read like an attempt at deflection:

I just still don't understand like my initial push was just trying to get you to expound on your thoughts- I don't wanna play mafia in a world where that's scummy. Or acceptable to not have to explain why you think things are scummy ya know?

---
Yes, my read on Naomi-Tan is not as strong as it was before you showed me that. I suppose that this weighs in favor of a culted lynch, although I am worried about accumulating sufficient votes.

[Dierfire]

For clarity:

My read on culted

is

was

purely POE

The other reasons are things that I just found on my most recent read through.

[BlackVoid]

I ISO'd Flubber. I hate that nearly every push he's made has been in the wrong direction and I'm not a fan of the hop onto Kairal. But he's been emotionally engaged in the game and I think he comes across like he believes what he's pushing. His arguments with Grey and Massive feel that way. He's my weakest scumread.

I'm down with lynching either Culted or AJ today. If IAI, Kairal, and Massive get online and want to lynch Culted, I'll switch. Massive seemed to prefer AJ to Culted but I'm not sure of that. But I'll leave my vote on AJ for now. Just check back in tomorrow to see what the VC is like and decide then. I really don't want Kairal lynched though so I hope you won't vote him if it turns out to be him vs AJ.

[Dierfire]

All right, we'll see.

@Everyone

I'm not sure whether we're getting any VC between now and the deadline, so if you move your vote between now and then could you also make sure that the VC is easily discernible? I believe that we are here now:

Unofficial Vote Count

0 - Dierfire:
0 - BlackVoid:
3 - Kairal: Culted, Aj The Epic, Flubbernugget
2 - Flubbernugget: Naomi-Tan, Dierfire
0 - I Am Innocent:
0 - Naomi-Tan:
0 - culted:
0 - massive:
3 - Aj The Epic: Kairal, BlackVoid, I Am Innocent

Not voting: massive

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2017-01-13 15:30:00)

[Naomi-Tan]

I wish that I had entered when Shadow did.. this slot is such an uphill battle -_- Like.. I've done everything I can to stop this slot stigma but its so hard. at this point in time.. I've posted the second most out of all players.. yet i'm still being punished the bad an weird choices CK and shadow made.. There should be enough content for you guys to use without citing CK and shadow.. Sigh.. oh well.. tomorrows another day.

PEDIT; personally I thinks flubbs entire push on massive reads as distancing. There is like 1 or 2 things showing them as being red. Like if they thought that way they would push. much like I been pushing flubbs lynch for most of my active time. Grey I can believe though as grey is kinda abrasive as green and can certainly come off as red to players who react negatively without looking too deeply into it. Given this attitude it would make sense to fuel his emotions. Personally flubbs on massive was on such a dull flame that I'm not sure if you can count it as pushing.

[BlackVoid]

Yeah, we'll just wait for massive. I'm down for whichever of Culted/AJ he prefers more so we can secure a lynch there.

@IAI - what do you make of Dierfire's latest posts? If he's scum with Culted and AJ, why is he so particular about which partner he's bussing?

[BlackVoid]

Culted/AJ/Naomi isn't something I've been able to rule out yet.

[BlackVoid]

I wish that I had entered when Shadow did.. this slot is such an uphill battle -_- Like.. I've done everything I can to stop this slot stigma but its so hard. at this point in time.. I've posted the second most out of all players.. yet i'm still being punished the bad an weird choices CK and shadow made.. There should be enough content for you guys to use without citing CK and shadow.. Sigh.. oh well.. tomorrows another day.

PEDIT; personally I thinks flubbs entire push on massive reads as distancing. There is like 1 or 2 things showing them as being red. Like if they thought that way they would push. much like I been pushing flubbs lynch for most of my active time. Grey I can believe though as grey is kinda abrasive as green and can certainly come off as red to players who react negatively without looking too deeply into it. Given this attitude it would make sense to fuel his emotions. Personally flubbs on massive was on such a dull flame that I'm not sure if you can count it as pushing.

It's hard to take you and your suspicion of Flubber seriously when your biggest argument in favor of that is that he's

distancing

from massive.

[Naomi-Tan]

No thats not my bigger argument thats just my counter argument for him being town for his interactions with massive.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well as people don't know why im voting flubs lets get a compilation post

I didn't really like flubbs reaction to CK's faked slips but I think if they are as smart as I think they are they also might of called it and not cared as I would of if I was playing and not in this slot.

With current site meta your best bet really is to ignore scum reads on you unless there's something off on a really fundamental level

I don't like this statement it discourages conversation and exploration of alignments viva questioning. Though I must admit when the heat gets over a certain level I do vanish for a while to reset it if I make too many mistakes (as both alignments) though I always think first piroity should be discussion of a point before ignoring of a point.

Flubbernugget
(Not really trusting there reaction to the slips)
(Stopping discussion by saying defending yourself is bad)
(Mudslinging blackvoid by saying they was sheeping when they wasn't given Flubs vote was RVS)

Flubbernugget
(Not really trusting there reaction to the slips) I'm not going into this one but I'll leave my raw note here
(Stopping discussion by saying defending yourself is bad) I think I commented on this one ealier
(Mudslinging blackvoid by saying they was sheeping when they wasn't given Flubs vote was RVS) and this
Those was my top 3 notable notes. (ones I wrote down because omg) Other than those there general pushes have been bad//weak. they don't post very often (upto page 20) and when they do its about the same number of line I been making on my catchup posts without the supplementary large posts that come every now and then.

There may be some coordination between My two biggest red reads but I don't think its strong enough to really hold up. things like both of them pressuring MDS at about the same time and both of them Town read my slot.

Additionally much like Massive they don't give many Town reads. the above mentioned thing being the only thing of note Pre-475.

Ignore reads on me = not crying when I'm scum read

Not only am I scum hunting you right now, I started the massive wagon too

Wait what? No. I would of noticed. Oh OH yeah that whole BS! Your Random Vote Stage Vote Does Not Count As Starting A Wagon!

Massive, I would like your read on cloudkicker. I see your 94 as not reading them as town, yet your 95 votes for someone else for *reasons*

And my vote is staying on you.

look at how random my vote is everyone

LOOK AT IT

Thats not your Vote post and is literally your only interaction directly (and subsequent conversations on the topic). You may have turned your joke vote into a semi-serious vote. but thats not really starting a wagon. Your barely even pushing :/

You voted him during the RVS with no bloody evidence and you still credit yourself with "starting his wagon".

Like, it's not like I even care who started the wagon. It just boggles me why you keep bringing it up, as if you're trying to squeeze out some town credit in case he flips scum.

Is it because you *know* he is scum?

Yes, I was making the first accusations on him. You're accusing me of not scumhunting when I began voting him for the same reason you did later

Also, you blatantly lied. And it shows that you thought you would get away with it because you're AGAIN trying to handwave when I began to have an actual scumread on massive.

I hate the way he's twisting words here.

Even without massive's claim I was pretty sure he and Flubber couldn't be a team. Remember that in Day 1 there's a fairly lengthy period where massive is the frontrunner votewise. Flubber stayed on him like glue all of day 1. I don't believe a scum teammate would be very likely to do so. Not saying it's impossible because I did see a scum player do that recently. It's pretty risky play though. He could have tried to push the wagon to Io or Newman but never did. That is a pretty hardcore bus if it is one.

yeah but despite being on them They didn't really push there was a total of one thing he brought up and other than that it was just sorta left to sit. I also read that interaction between massive and flubber as distancing more than anything and given there reads have been in alignment from my iso so far why would you find the person agreeing with you suspicious? especially if there not doing it loudly giving there own little flawed small reasons for it.

I think the other thing that REALLY irritates me about the flubbs // massive thing is how flubbs had their vote on massive all of Day 1 (or at least upto where I am located) and had multiple oppertunities to push what they felt was there red read (if their green and massive is either alignment) but didn't. but also they didn't push there miss lynch, (if their red and massive is green) Which leads me to the odd conclusion that they know each others alignments.

Okay Let me make this a bit clearer by running threw all 4 situations

• [Green Flubs, Green Massive] Not knowing the alignment of massive and thinking there red, they would pick up and push things as they happen with the rest of Green

•[Green Flubs, Red Massive] Not knowing the alignment of massive and thinking there red, they would pick up and push things as they happen with the rest of Green

•[Red Flubs, Green Massive] Wanting a miss lynch they push whenever they think they can get away with it. pushing softly and edging them out.

•[Red Flubs, Red Massive] Voting them for distance but not really putting heart into lynching them as you want them alive.

Grey is playing in a way that makes his intentions ambiguous and that needed to be highlighted

Im counting this as a mudsling.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah, we'll just wait for massive. I'm down for whichever of Culted/AJ he prefers more so we can secure a lynch there.

@IAI - what do you make of Dierfire's latest posts? If he's scum with Culted and AJ, why is he so particular about which partner he's bussing?

Well he still voted flubber (not AJ) and has kept his options open if it doesn't swing back to culted (won't say who he'd vote for between AJ and kairal).

I feel like his whole game has been full of too many town reads. Even now he has 7 players including himself who he doesn't want to lynch (leaving 2 players to lynch, 1 of which is prob town if dier is scum)

I'm with you tho, I'll be shocked if AJ and culted aren't scum, if we can get to 5 with a mislynch still in hand, I think it'll be a win for town.

At this point I'm good with either culted or AJ. Culted dier will vote for, Naomi seems ready to vote AJ, massive makes the final call?

[Kairal]

I was really hoping this would all be resolved by now. End of Day 1 is likely occur while I'm asleep I'll stick around for an hour or so but this is probably gonna be my last shot for discussion and voting. I'm gonna stick with BV. However it might be better for those of us voting AJ to move to Flubber- at least we'll get the lynch that way.

[Kairal]

Er... obviously not Day 1. I'm tired.

[Kairal]

I was really hoping this would all be resolved by now. End of Day 1 is likely occur while I'm asleep I'll stick around for an hour or so but this is probably gonna be my last shot for discussion and voting. I'm gonna stick with BV. However it might be better for those of us voting AJ to move to Flubber- at least we'll get the lynch that way.

This post is not as clear as it should be. I mean that given Aj is the strongest scum player I would quite like to knock him out today. However it may be better to settle for the easier lynch in Flubber. As I said earlier though I'm letting BV call the shots. For now my vote is on AJ- unless you tell me you want to move the lynch elsewhere in the next hour or two then it'll stay on Aj because I'll be asleep.

[Kairal]

Alright I'm going to bed. I don't expect to be posting in the thread again today.

Our main priority today should be ensuring a lynch. Any lynch is better than a no lynch.

If I do end up getting dead it was a pleasure playing with you all. I got a bit heated at points but I had fun. No hard feelings I hope.

Good luck !

[BlackVoid]

AJ it is then. Sorry Dierfire. @Massive, Naomi, please vote. There are literally six hours left to deadline.

[BlackVoid]

@Dierfire, it would be great if you could put down a vote for AJ as well. At least, if we're wrong here, that'll tell me I'm off somewhere in case I live to see tomorrow and I can re-assess the game then and help you with Flubber/Culted. You said you thought Kairal was town now. I think he's town too. He's going to flip town and his flip will do nothing to help re-examine the gamestate.

[massive]

Oh Now you say something -_- I been talking about my red read and disbeliving of the cop claim since like 5 pages ago. but you only change your tune now. what gives?

The very real likelihood is that I have no idea what you're saying or where your reads are most of the time.

I also felt that this quote in response to Kairal read like an attempt at deflection:

I just still don't understand like my initial push was just trying to get you to expound on your thoughts- I don't wanna play mafia in a world where that's scummy. Or acceptable to not have to explain why you think things are scummy ya know?

This one is interesting. Did he say anything like this when we were having all those numerous conversations about not explaining votes?

I wish that I had entered when Shadow did.. this slot is such an uphill battle -_- Like.. I've done everything I can to stop this slot stigma but its so hard. at this point in time.. I've posted the second most out of all players.. yet i'm still being punished the bad an weird choices CK and shadow made.. There should be enough content for you guys to use without citing CK and shadow.. Sigh.. oh well.. tomorrows another day.

Yeah, like you calling CK's townslip fake. We really should go back to that. You're definitely generating enough content for us not to rely on the other contributors to your slot.

Oh look you even quoted it for me on this page, thanks.

[massive]

I do kinda want to reread culted real fast but I know we're running up on it. I'm here through the deadline though.

[I Am Innocent]

I'll be in meetings the next 1.5 hours, but can check in before lunch here.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: AJ Fuck it.. compromise it is.

[Naomi-Tan]

Unofficial Vote Count

0 - Dierfire:
0 - BlackVoid:
3 - Kairal: Culted, Aj The Epic, Flubbernugget
2 - Flubbernugget: Dierfire
0 - I Am Innocent:
0 - Naomi-Tan:
0 - culted:
0 - massive:
4(L-1) - Aj The Epic: Kairal, BlackVoid, I Am Innocent, Naomi-Tan

Not voting: massive

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2017-01-13 15:30:00)

[/quote]

[massive]

It seems like it's Kairal-Naomi-IAMI vs Flubber-AJ-Culted and I'm 100% it's not as easy as that.

It's funny, re-reading culted makes me think culted-Naomi would be the pair. Culted tries to question Cloudkicker about his 9-die "slip" but never really follows up on it, and then doesn't interact with the slot until Naomi needs a little coaching.

[Naomi-Tan]

It seems like it's Kairal-Naomi-IAMI vs Flubber-AJ-Culted and I'm 100% it's not as easy as that.

It's funny, re-reading culted makes me think culted-Naomi would be the pair. Culted tries to question Cloudkicker about his 9-die "slip" but never really follows up on it, and then doesn't interact with the slot until Naomi needs a little coaching.

Get the fuck out.