Mystic Mafia [Endgame]

[Nahdia]

I like desperado they think good things that I agree with

[Staeg]

the first part is a kiss ass post with wiggle room to disagree. I mean what stances do you agree with of nacho's? bullet point for me will ya?

so...I just wanna get this straight. you think...dreamz and dunn are scum together? that they somehow concocted this convoluted plan to both crumb early on d1, 1 being obvs and the other telling him to shut up...or...something?

and that both of them started off with an orb and dunn decided to give his away as some mastermind to confuse town only to snatch it back later and have more orbs which is why he hammered zito?

do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds? and you actually have the nerve to throw shade on dunn cos it WAS kind of strange that nacho zeroed in on the 2 orb holders but somehow missed that they announced that they had them with a big neon sign.

I mean...do you think that dunn and dreamz decided that this was the super duper plan that *wld decimate town* and win the game against this playerlist?

I have no words.

No, they're entirely separate from one another, and are quite unlikely to be scum together.
Why assume that everyone's gameplan has to be focused around the orbs? Whenever a gamewide mechanic with probable large benefits to whoever cashes it in such as this is present, you get two options as either side - ignore it and maybe possibly keep it in the corner of your mind for some lategame shenanigans, or go for it as subtly or bluntly as the game necessitates. I don't think giving away orbs is a major towntell - slight, sure, but the odds that town would be able to organise themselves into reassembling the orb are incredibly low, while keeping onto shards of the orb - especially if other people become aware that you have it - is a terrible idea.

As for the first one: the dunn/nahdia/dreal sentiment, the end-of-day zito-vote policy, the dreal push d2 and his general responses to people in thread, which is what the "liking most of your stances" is about - interaction with kagami and you, for example.
Good job on spotting the wiggle room, why do you think it's there?


Desp - ok. nice.

[Papa Zito]

I like desperado they think good things that I agree with

Which things?



I'll be doing a bunch of reading at lunch yay

[Kagami]

Hi guys,

Mystery hunt was awesome, the theme was D&D, and reminds me that maybe we should set up a mafiascum team in the future, or have a mafiascum satellite to a team. I was entirely remote this year, and it was still great.

Thankfully nothing much happened over the weekend except that I've warmed up substantially to spyrex/desp, which I was already feeling Day 2. I have some setup stuff I want to talk about in a minute, too.

[Kagami]

General thoughts:

I like spyrex/desperado. This and I think Mollie are my two favorite slots for town. I was getting very weird vibes from mollie in the PT, but having the weekend to think things through leads to think I was probably right in the first place. I revealed the orb thing just because I was suspicious in the context of zito-obvscum, not for any great reason. Thankfully, Mollie's slip meant that it didn't matter anyway, I guess, though i hadn't noticed it and it's pretty likely scum wouldn't have either.

I get Zito, and have been thinking about the claim. I think I actually buy it, but I have some qualms, not the least of which is that regardless of alignment, he's getting to endgame, which I'm not crazy about. I think he gets a pass because the claimed power may or may not fit into the setup depending on how other things go.

Dunn is the read I'm most tearing my hair out over. "Bad argument but from a town place" is not enough for Dunn, I had the exact same thinking over and over in the large Dance, and it turns out that's just the way Dunn is. He makes ludicrous arguments as scum that are obviously ridiculous, but seems to really, really believe them. I imagine he does the same as town. The orb interactions look townie, specifically the hammer vote if we assume zito-town. That he gave the orb away means something, and I had the same thought, but I don't get why he finished the post after I already said what was needed to say, unless the point of everything was to make that post. There's something else that seems like a strange choice to me, but I forget if that's already been mentioned. Beyond that, I agree that his behavior looks townish, so idk.

Camntsuki I think I still am ok with. I don't have any specific things that jump out either way, but I think their take on the spyrex things is somewhat town-indicative. I'm probably going to neighborize you guys tonight, iirc I've done that before and it was fun.

Nahdia, town read is fading. If infinity is town, then she's done nothing. I thought the antagonism toward mollie would be an unlikely take from someone who would surely have been told not to butt heads with if she had player summaries coming from a scum PT to work with. I also thought there 302 was a strong spyrex->nahdia WK implication, but spyrex was prob town, so shrug.

Nacho I'm beginning to like a lot more than yesterday, I don't really want to go into specifics about what I'm seeing there.

I liked RC for a while, I'm hoping he makes a glorious return.

I think the best reason to townread drealz is that his day 1 shtick is pretty ballzy for new-scum, but it still makes absolutely no sense to crumb orb possession as town. I don't even understand how, from a town perspective, one decides to go that route unless he gave away the orb and has not mentioned it. If he kept the orb, then it indicates that he has no fear of being NKed for it, which just isn't something that town would thinking about, especially in the context of someone who has thought of very little outside of how shiny his orb piece is and how fun softing things is.

I agree with the general consensus that Infinity is pretty likely to flip scummy. I still think he got more flack than deserved for his initial voting pattern, but that doesn't change that he has been asking questions that are extremely reactionary and I don't get a town line of thought that should be underlying them. I think being "lost" is no longer a good excuse, since there are at this point so many things that he could have grappled on to. The only thing that makes me not super optimistic about that lynch is that I'm not really crazy about anyone advocating it.

I'm down for a drealz lynch or infinity lynch.

Also have setup thoughts.

[Kagami]

Ok, so orbs:

I think it's relevant that SAD died despite drealz and dunn both obviously having orbs going into N1. Unless both drealz and dunn are scum, which seems extremely unlikely, scum doesn't care too, too much about collecting. Whoever said giving orbs away is not a super town-tell is probably correct.

I would guess that scum just wins if they get them all, but apparently they don't think it's super likely. Could mean orbs all started in town hands. Def means non-groupscum has at least 3.

From a design standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense for scum to start with any orbs without another party who wants to collect them, and I don't think that other party would be town. If town got something amazing out of them, we'd probably have been told what they do. It makes some sense for them to have to hunt down and kill 4 specific people (without an orb carrier getting lynched), since then the game isn't likely to end too early due to orb collection, so that actually seems possible.

My favorite theory, which is one I was kicking around yesterday, is two orbs for town, one for one scum faction, one for another scum faction, which is more or less how the shards of the shikon jewel worked in inu yasha. Only one kill means that we're prob not in multiball, but it's still possible that there's a third party floating around who specifically interacts with the orb. Strong chance this is Zito, btw, if that turns out to be correct. Lack of a second kill suggests that such a third party would steal them, which probably would have come out by now since they'd have targeted dunn or drealz (unless dunn passing stopped a theft attempt).

In the absence of that, I'd guess all 4 orbs started with town.

[Kagami]

(so I'm spirit voting infinity atm)

[drealmerz7]

kagami my post is probably going to (hopefully) change some things for you, I was hoping to get it out last night, but, yes, I'm a slacker at this point

I just did a preview of my 1st submission and skimmed some of what you said - it would have been better if I'd gotten in before you, I apologize

it's coming it's coming it's coming (yeahyeah)

[pirate mollie]

kagami my post is probably going to (hopefully) change some things for you, I was hoping to get it out last night, but, yes, I'm a slacker at this point

I just did a preview of my 1st submission and skimmed some of what you said - it would have been better if I'd gotten in before you, I apologize

it's coming it's coming it's coming (yeahyeah)

how hard is it to hit submit. you are obviously active and picking and choosing to interject promises "oh what I say is soooooooo important that I am going to put it off for days and days cos hey you pple are trying to hold other pple accountable other than me and that is how I like it. I PROMISE I will submit something in a little bit".

hey guys hey

there is something glaring here about dreamz/kagami/dunn that shld be super obvs as to why dreamz shld stick out for you. and why him putting it off and letting town implode to the point of replacing out

is not freaking protown.

I am just starting to care les

[drealmerz7]

Now that you're all finally tapped out, I can begin (kagami aside who is totally fine and obvitown.) I waited and waited until there was nothing left for most of you to talk about because I felt otherwise I simply would not be believed and would get drawn into it all which is exactly what I did not want to happen (it started to happen at the beginning of the game and there was no preventing it...will get to that...) This way I'm able to not be a factor as much as it seemed I was becoming (and still am, sure, but, I think it'll make sense as we go through...)

Please bear with me. I have a lot notes and scattered thoughts and I will probably repeat things that I've said because I have cross-over notes and not sure what is fully where, I've done my best at trying to keep it coherent for you all.

Spoiler: it begins

The FIRST thing you all need to know and believe is that I have ABSOLUTELY NO SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE about ANYTHING game/mechanical related AT ALL as has been drawn to appear that I do. Absolutely not a thing. There were no "softs", I was not hinting at a single thing related to anything. ALL I ever did was use the flavor that was provided for ALL by Fate in the public game thread. I don't know anything about orb pieces or anything (other than what I've read from the rest of you.) I FUCKING HATE HAVING TO CLAIM THAT I DON'T HAVE AN ORB PIECE BECASE. But, there you go. You all fucking think I have one. I don't!!! If you are town you NEED TO ADJUST YOUR READS ACCORDINGLY RIGHT NOW!!! Seriously. Look:

...
“The day that you find this orb you will no longer be

seekers

. I wonder if you will be able to face that fear.

I wonder if you will have the courage to stare into where the True orb resides….”

seek

find

question (seek)

I took that from flavor and made a post to sound philosophical/profound because I treat a lot of mafia games like we are on a quest for Truth together. This just all fits and is how I was approaching the game to start, getting "into it." THIS IS THE TRUTH and you HAVE to believe me. Tell me what I need to do to convince you if you don't believe me.

IT HAS TO HAPPEN ALL FELLOW TOWNIES MUST BELIEVE THIS!

Spoiler: more "soft stuff"

The idea starts early and grows quickly in my head that dunnstral is simply trying to make it seem like I know something when I don't so he can use it to his advantage later, but I just don't know. I elaborate on that a little somewhere else.

I simply say this (spiritual realm/astral plane type stuff that I have basic knowledge of):

anyone know what ayahuasca is?

Nice soft

and he uses it to insist I'm softing - I don't even know what that is supposed to be a soft of!!!

I bet drealmerz thinks he's witty, clever, and secretive

But you're not. The rest of us know

exactly

what you're talking about. You know what you must do. As do I.

that comes after the Alex Grey paintingpic I post and say "we must combine our minds to see True". I picked that one because it is a joining of the minds to see clarity sort of picture (to put it very simply right now) - again, had I any conception that there's anything about actually joining orbs mechanics wise I would have never been saying anything like this. If there is orb combining stuff in the game, I bet Fate is having AFUCKING BLAST with all of this. But then, I think so is dunnstral, and it reads to me that he is manipulating it all to his purposes as far as I can see. He and nacho working together I think?

On top of that, a lot of people sure are talking about the thing you're not supposed to talk about.

staeg shows special knowledge as well - he's either scum with the shared knowledge or an individual with special knowledge - if town THIS IS WHY WHAT DUNN IS DOING WITH CLAIMING THE SOFTING (which is ALL him as I see it), drawing information out of others. I HATE IT. This is why I've been MIA. I just...I am in a really tough spot, not knowing what to do, who to trust, or anything. IT'S FUCKED. and it's dunnstral to blame. He should be lynched if not infinity, who is his "BUDDY" (which he called him multiple times I won't even get to that stuff in this post.)

for real though stop softing because we know what you're talking about

what?!?!? this came after this:

individuals would be wise to not leave their trash scattered about the plane

I'm talking about all the cluttering of the thread with pointless multiple string posts of small snippets is all, seriously.

then there's:

Infinity wagon is good but dunnstral votes are better.

To elaborate on this: dunny's play is inconsistent with information available to the town role he's softed.

gives me good feelings about staeg

Now, I since I don't know whether dunnstral is town or scum (I'm pretty sure scum), I'm going to go down both paths and see where they lead.

If he's town he's done a horrible thing, imo, thinking he knows best and trying to control the situation because of that- like he has some knowledge / a piece of the orb and wants to be in charge, and if that is the case I think it has gone HORRIBLY and scum has so much information because of him, he's almost a PL due to being so anti-town. Dunnstral has pulled me into something from the beginning of this game and it has been beyond my willpower/ability to stop it. I tried a couple times and quickly noticed that everything was starting to go how he wanted and so I completely disengaged because 1.) he is wrong about me and I can't seem to convince him or others otherwise and engaging it was likely to not go well or 2.) he's scum trying to draw me into his shit and make it seem like #1 and if that is the case I thought (still think) my best course of action was to disengage so he couldn't use me as a piece in whatever game he is playing.

On D1 he defends me and I find it SUPER SUPER odd, but I don't know what it is about at the time. Now with the outing of everything my read is he just wants to NK me and get the orb piece? I didn't die. Spyrex did something to SAD...I don't know. My brain is really all over the place because I don't KNOW what to think. All I know is that you all need to believe me and work withme to work through all of this to get it NO LONGER ASKEW. There is soooo much through the thread based on all of this. PM, I think you are ON IT and I trust you to do correctly with it all.

I think Nacho is scum, I think dunn is scum, they might be scum together or it might be multiball is more likely by the look of the associations going on. Dunn+Infinity+? Nacho+Kagami+?

I REALLY TRIED to stop things from the beginning by saying I WAS NOT SOFTING ANYTHING AND NEVER WOULD DO THAT!!! ANYONE who has meta with me (nacho, spyr, dunn, nahdia) MIGHT MIGHT MIGHT be able to attest to this for me? But I don't know, and obviously any of them could lie (total TR on spyr though he is totally town fucking all of you GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR - camnstuki seriously me too I played game with him recently completed wordplay mafia and I'm quite sure his slot is town here :\ let's just drop that now though?)

So this whole time I don't know what to do, so I've been letting it lay and watch where it goes and grows until it was seemingly OVER WITH. Thank you all for your patience.

I can address other stuff later but I think we should tackle this now? Should I talk about the nacho SR on me or wait? (I don't feel bullied by him at all, omg so many things...love you nacho, but you're scum, and I've been on you since the GO and you want to remove me! especially now since you think I may have an orb piece?)

EVERYONE! Ask me questions and let's get into it. I am here now and we are a GO for game-solving.

did a refresh and fine. I'll hit submit

[drealmerz7]

I often do WOTs, molly, on my HS, and they aren't taken so well because I have scattered thoughts and notes and repeat myself a lot and go in circles.

I wanted it to be clean and concise and "more professional." It was taking longer than I wanted.

[Kagami]

Most of the fallout of the dunn claim is not something he could possibly have predicted as scum. If he was lusting after an orb piece he thought you had, why not kill you last night, and why give away his piece?

[Infinity 324]

I agree with the general consensus that Infinity is pretty likely to flip scummy. I still think he got more flack than deserved for his initial voting pattern, but that doesn't change that he has been asking questions that are extremely reactionary and I don't get a town line of thought that should be underlying them. I think being "lost" is no longer a good excuse, since there are at this point so many things that he could have grappled on to. The only thing that makes me not super optimistic about that lynch is that I'm not really crazy about anyone advocating it.

Kagami, can you work with me here and explain a little more? Not exactly sure what you mean by reactionary, I do feel like most of my questions are leading somewhere even if they are all over the place. And no I'm not really lost anymore, though I'm still figuring stuff out.

Would still like to see you respond to 1230 although I'm feeling better about you nonetheless

I wanna know what you think of staeg. The more I think about it, the more I dislike that slot. I just don't see a town voice between his words.

I also wanna talk more about dreal. I still like his tone but the procrastination is starting to worry me.

PEdit: well ok

[Kagami]

Spyrex did something to SAD? Did I miss that?

[Infinity 324]

Dreal, I don't really understand why you're freaking out so much. Whether dunn is town who thought you softed or scum who pretended to think you softed why is it such a big deal

now

? And how can you tell the difference?

[Desperado]

I like spyrex/desperado. This and I think Mollie are my two favorite slots for town.

The only thing that makes me not super optimistic about that lynch is that I'm not really crazy about anyone advocating it.

???

[Kagami]

My memory was staeg, camntsuki, nahdia, dreamz.

Saw the Spy->SAD thing, had forgotten about it.

[Papa Zito]

(kagami aside who is totally fine and obvitown.)

I think Nacho is scum, I think dunn is scum, they might be scum together or it might be multiball is more likely by the look of the associations going on. Dunn+Infinity+? Nacho+Kagami+?

how did you manage this in the space of a single post

[Desperado]

I am just starting to care les

But I just got here!

[Infinity 324]

I agree with the general consensus that Infinity is pretty likely to flip scummy. I still think he got more flack than deserved for his initial voting pattern, but that doesn't change that he has been asking questions that are extremely reactionary and I don't get a town line of thought that should be underlying them. I think being "lost" is no longer a good excuse, since there are at this point so many things that he could have grappled on to. The only thing that makes me not super optimistic about that lynch is that I'm not really crazy about anyone advocating it.

Kagami, can you work with me here and explain a little more? Not exactly sure what you mean by reactionary, I do feel like most of my questions are leading somewhere even if they are all over the place. And no I'm not really lost anymore, though I'm still figuring stuff out.

Would still like to see you respond to 1230 although I'm feeling better about you nonetheless

I wanna know what you think of staeg. The more I think about it, the more I dislike that slot. I just don't see a town voice between his words.

I also wanna talk more about dreal. I still like his tone but the procrastination is starting to worry me.

PEdit: well ok

Hey. Kagami.

[Kagami]

Need a block of time to go over that.

I think I addressed mollie stuff before the hunt began, though.

[Papa Zito]

not the least of which is that regardless of alignment, he's getting to endgame, which I'm not crazy about. I think he gets a pass because the claimed power may or may not fit into the setup depending on how other things go.

Just to be clear, the talisman was a one-shot passive. I'm not protected by it anymore.

[Infinity 324]

No, you didn't kagami

[pirate mollie]

if you had no orb and wanted to clear up any misconceptions from that

then why the fuck did you not say so when both dunn and kagami outed that they had an orb and passed it on?????

"I have no orb nor did I ever have 1, sorry for any1 who thought otherwise" <----- that wld have been protown, that wld have cleared things up RIGHT THEN.

there is not one "insight" that you have "outed" that gives you a reason to squat on it all day, let tensions build, do nothing to diffuse a single town fight that has happened, not push the nacho sr and instead it seemed to have gone *poof* and now you are saying, "oh ohohoh I never lost it I was just waiting for that perfect moment to tell you I still had it!". there was zero reason to sit on this for the duration of the game while town was imploding, in fact, it wld have been helpful to have said all of this earlier instead of letting things escalate in the way that they did.

like no. nonono.

@ dunn - sorry I have tried my best. I think you are trying to sort things out and if you are scum then you have done a remarkable job that is very consistent with what you know. you continuously have been pushing the game in a direction that helps town to figure things out. I am sorry that I overestimated in thinking that pple actually gave a fuck of what I had to say. everything I said in our pt is true, and no I have not said crap to kagami and likely won't. she doesn't think the pt is helpful and if she thinks so now I doubt it will make a difference later on. it probably won't make as much of a difference as I thought anyways.

I tried and if you are town (which I really really think you are) I am sorry that you are being treated like dog poo, which you don't deserve. ty for staying in the game and trying to figure things out <3.

eta: @ desp <3

[Infinity 324]

You're probably right mollie, I'm just a sucker for genuine-looking tone.