Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[Aristophanes]

ari, aren't you glad I'm not playing that way this game?!

it'd be like 4x as much content at least

I am! Thank you so much Dreal! <3

Fucking ninja wall!

[Prism]

That post is really all you need to see that you have an ego.

[drealmerz7]

don't make camn get out the whips...

[Prism]

Nah, that's the furthest I'm going into it, no worries.

[Prism]

Drealm do you actually think Mastina made that claim as scum? Do you have any other big reads? I'm having a hard time seeing that Mastina push, and your play this game is still miles from Evoker. If I had to pick a vote that wasn't Fate right now it'd be you.

[Prism]

Rereading your ISO I think your reads on Fate/Gin aren't the worst (though I'm not confident in either of them at all), and I could buy the early mastina scumread, but the continued push is pretty bad.

[drealmerz7]

I know that I would make that claim as scum...but I wouldn't have pointed out the not-dying part and that is where it caught my attention and makes me think it's a scumclaim, smarter townplay is to only partially claim if that is the truth (at least how I'd do it) - do Yu really think scum let town-masonizer-mastina live N1 for the confirm? no, it's a scumclaim at L-3

and yeah, I'm playing this game differently, but it IS only D1 and my passiveness isn't likely to go much past it if I live into D2

[mastina]

Have you considered, for even

one second

, that the reason I and apparently a lot of veteran players do this is because there are real, tangible benefits to doing so?

There are tangible benefits to skimming. Fuck, I skim. I skim a

lot

. Like, a lot a lot. There are players whose posts I will almost entirely skip, for whatever reason: bad formatting, I have a strong enough read on the slot that nothing in the post will change it, what they're saying simply doesn't seem relevant, etc.

Skim.
Not skip.
Not ignore.

The two are entirely different.

You've by your own declaration said you're ignoring me.

And there is ZERO town benefit in doing that. I fully expect people when reading my posts to skim. Fuck, I skim my own posts. (Not because of length/formatting, just because I read to get the general gist of what I just said to make sure I've covered what I wanted to.) I expect other players to skim my posts, just as I skim theirs, because nobody in the current site meta actually reads every post--any player who claims to do so is a liar. It's impossible in a large, it's impossible in a mini, it's impossible even in a micro. Reading everything takes too much time, and is too much a waste of effort, because so much of what is said isn't actually of importance. So we skim. I know this better than any other player.

But as a result of me knowing it better than any other player, I also know there is no benefit in IGNORING a player. Skimming a post is fine. Consistently skimming posts is fine, even(/especially?) if they're all by the same author. Writing off a player is not. And you've said that is what you've done.

make whatever posts you make at least somewhat relevant or worth reading, and have them be useful

...Which, again. Makes up 95% of my content. Not 5%. Not 10%. 95% of my posting, including right now, is doing this, because while I'll fluff a little bit, most of my posts have a purpose. Now, what said purpose is might not be relevant to what you want:
Me talking about a Gin scumread, for instance--that was relevant at the time, but isn't relevant anymore because my opinion on Gin changed, the read changed, and it changed from probably-wrong to probably-right.
Me talking to the players on my wagon and telling them they are wrong might not be relevant to what you want, if you're looking for current scumhunting from me, either.

But while those things might not be relevant to what you currently want (that being, current content), those things were in fact...at the time they were posted, content. They were purposeful, with intent. And from that, you could get something from me. You could get a read on me. You could ask how I changed from point A to point B to point C. I've had read changes, very notable read changes--you could ask me how come Nacho stopped being pushed. You could ask me why I started to push you. You could ask what happened to Aeronaut. You could ask any number of questions.

Because the idea my posting isn't content is LAUGHABLE.
You say "where's your content?"?
I say...where ISN'T my content?
Even this post is content!

[drealmerz7]

ohyeah, it's weakass shit continued push, I honestly thought ppl would come around and I wouldn't have to work for it

that was silly on my part, I'll make the push for mastina before EoD you can be guaranteed

[drealmerz7]

*cue pre-push discrediting* (cept not now, cept now yes, no)

[mastina]

VOTE: fate
We all know the reasons why here, and his Prism hop on here is opportunistic as fuck

Pot, kettle, black.

"We all know the reasons why here" for voting Fate, next to "hopping on a wagon is opportunistic as fuck" should tell you as much, SirCakez.
You're voting THE most opportunistic wagon. Fate's the largest wagon, and the easiest wagon, and the wagon this game which has gotten the largest, with the most people backing it. The wagon hasn't gone away.

Fate was the third voter on Prism.
You're the sixth voter on Fate. (I mean, not six current voters, but at least six total voters across the whole game.)

[mastina]

Holy cognitive dissonance.

It's not. People resist lurker lynches.
Secret Agent Jin is a lurker. If I was asked to point out why I think Jin is scum, it would be: "POE, plus a lack of content". Does this sound convincing to you? I have nothing against Jin, in spite of the scumread.
Would Jin magically appear and be around to produce more content? I've no reason to believe this, so it wouldn't be strengthened or weakened.

BTD6_maker is a lurker. If I was asked to point out why I think a BTD6_maker lynch might hit scum, it'd be a little bit more than Secret Agent Jin, but not by much: "POE, plus content overly mastina-centric. He's focused on only a fraction of my posting, discarding the rest, and used it as an excuse to give nothing on the rest of the game". Not exactly a slam-dunk case, now, is it?
Would BTD6 magically appear and be around to produce more content? I've no reason to believe this, so it's neither strengthened nor weakened.

You on the other hand, have content. I haven't pointed it out yet, haven't made a proper case for why you would be scum, but I don't need to in order to push you, for one simple reason: me pushing you is productive...because you signaled your return. You were explicitly on a set-date V/LA. BTD6 and Jin, not so much. But you, you would come back, and come back soonish (as in now), to respond, and here we are.

[mastina]

Cakez hop off mastina was about as scummy a dismount you can do to
"hmm dont buy the claim but I guess ill let it slide hurrdhurhur"

I mean, you're not

wrong

, I just don't think Cakez is actually scum for it.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: fate
We all know the reasons why here, and his Prism hop on here is opportunistic as fuck

Pot, kettle, black.

"We all know the reasons why here" for voting Fate, next to "hopping on a wagon is opportunistic as fuck" should tell you as much, SirCakez.
You're voting THE most opportunistic wagon. Fate's the largest wagon, and the easiest wagon, and the wagon this game which has gotten the largest, with the most people backing it. The wagon hasn't gone away.

Fate was the third voter on Prism.
You're the sixth voter on Fate. (I mean, not six current voters, but at least six total voters across the whole game.)

Except the person I was voting claimed something confirmable so I obviously wasn't going to stay there, while Fate just jumped to Prism because wagons???

[Prism]

mastina I'm just saying I lied and have read literally every post, every word, and was just nudging you towards a goalpost that would be more helpful to me, and have made several allusions to the fact that I have done this.

The amount of use I've gotten out of them, in particular the last post towards me, #1357, and even the last like 7, is literally 0 other than the claim. Not even just figuratively. I actually regret reading them. Even now, I was already planning on putting in a ton of effort today, and now I'm spending it on this circus. This is really the last post you're getting out of me, if you address a question to me later you'll get a response but I feel as though literally none of this is helpful to me in any way. It feels like I'm talking to a wall while simultaneously trying to count the grains of sand on a beach, and I'm just getting frustrated in the process. I have a lot more to say, about how you're being blind to X Y and Z, but it would help nothing, so I'm stopping here.

This is a more than a bit insulting, so I'll apologize for that, but it's earnestly how I feel, and how I feel I can best contribute to winning. I'm not going to continue to spend time that I continue perceive as entirely wasted. I'm going to refocus and contribute to winning the game the best way that I can-and that involves now

actually

ignoring you completely.

[mastina]

4?

You, SirCakez, BTD6_maker, and Vaxkiller.

That's 4/9 players who could be the vig that scumread me.
Basically a 50% chance that the vig, if not getting a lynch on me, would vig me during the night.

Furthermore, even among the 5/9 town players not scumreading me, if they are of the mindset that vigging the lead-non-lynch-wagon would be the best use of their shot...then 4/13 players voting me would make me the leading-non-lynch-wagon, putting me in danger of being vigged by a vig using this mindset.

Making the chance of me getting vigged some undefined number above 50%--way, way, WAY too high an amount. While it being 0% wasn't something I felt I needed, I needed it to be much lower than that. And I already tried my alternative methods: I talked to each member of the wagon. I explained my stances on them. I engaged each of them. They still remained. So a claim became the only viable method of convincing them they were wrong, and at least reducing the odds of me being shot.

[mastina]

Also @mastina that post was

deliberately structured to be dense

!!!! Grah!!

Doesn't matter; it still makes a fine example of the "text block" format of posts that I simply cannot read. And honestly don't understand how others read. I mean in that particular case I read it anyway if it's consolidation for you (it took me a few tries to get all the way through, though), but normally that dense format of so much text in one space is utterly incomprehensible to me.

There's a technique to proper walling. I've gotten it down to a science--a bit like science, it's imperfect knowledge in that there's always room to improve some more. But there's still a technique involved in making large amounts of text be readable. (See this? This is an instance of a fluff post. Or would have been, without this parenthetical statement, which pushes it back into being content. Literally the first in a string of posts where I'm not producing content though.)

[drealmerz7]

use more

-

I've discovered that helps people digest my WOTs a lot easier

[mastina]

You asked me for reasons that I thought you were scum, Prism. I glanced at the post, didn't read your ISO, realized I

had

no reasons for thinking you were scum. Instead of going through your ISO and making shit up or having a conf-bias, I votedScumCakez instead. Not much to explain there, really.

Normally I enjoy Nahdia's fluff prose and posting, but this game I only get a feel of "look how townie I am really! Just jokster nahdia here!" the intent and TIMING of the fluffprose is NOT with the INTENT to humor, entertain (both others and herself), and to add depth to the thread
This is scum Nahdia posing.

That is the wagon I REALLY WANT (because cakez still has 10% of being shit at this game, but his stances and stubbornness continue to sound scummier and scummier with each post so I really am fine with either). The bonus fact that SC was on that horribad mastina wagon, and then DIDNT EVEN RECALIBRATE THE READS with mastina claiming a confirmable role
there was no "ah shit, maybe mastina is town bc of that claim? WHat odes that make Fate?" There was ONLY A HOP FROM ONE MISLYNCH TO THE NEXT BIGGEST MISLYCNH WAGON
if I die over Cakez I dont even
dont even hope for no town nope

While this isn't the ol' screaming Fate from the days of yore, this is a good example of why Fate is a top-tier player.
If he's scum, this is

exactly

the right thing to say. As in, EXACTLY the right thing to say, to get people off of him because this post is just so overwhelmingly town.

If he's town, this is

exactly

the post I wanted him to give me. As in, not only something overwhelmingly town, but also something which gives me some actual meat. See this? This is how to make points that actually resonate with me. Like, Fate's said this about Monokuma and SirCakez, two players I have explicitly said I have zero interest in lynching.

And I am listening to him intently

.

[mastina]

Its value is subjective, because

I

am the one that has to read evaluate it, and it's worthless to me if I have to wade through an ocean of mud to get to

your singular view of the game

when I can just build a bridge, drive over the ocean, and get basically everything I need just the same.

Still a dodge of the point I was making.

You still haven't produced content.
And you've consistently avoided giving stances.
You're still not working to find what's meaningful and what's not.
Fuck, while it's a little bit of a moot point now, you even avoided giving direct thoughts on my slot even post-claim.

For someone who seems so sure that I've done nothing.
You sure seem to be guilty of a lot of nothing yourself.

[mastina]

Fate admitting to voting without even scumreading people lmao

That post was literally the towniest post Fate has made all fucking game, and it OOZED towniness.
I don't care if it turns out Fate's actually scum, that was still a town post. If he's scum, it was a town post he made as scum but it's still a town post to its very core on every possible level.

[SirCakez]

What's town about it? I don't see it at all.

[mastina]

smarter townplay is to only partially claim if that is the truth (at least how I'd do it)

Okay, picture this.
I target a player, and am the scum's nightkill.
The player claims they were the target.
My role may or may not, depending on how thoroughly camn flips roles, explain my role. In short, it may or may not spell out that I lack the 'dies when targeting scum' clause.
Town, not seeing this, assume that I died because I targeted scum.
The player I masonized gets mislynched, because they can't prove I succeeded in masonizing them.

Or, picture this.
I target a scum player, and am the scum's nightkill.
My role may, or may not, flip entirely.
The town, seeing this, will figure out I targeted scum...but might not conclude I was the scum's nightkill.
As a result, this not only leaves open the door for scum to fakeclaim a cause for a kill prevention N1, but also helps hide the reasons why scum chose to kill me N1.

In other words, regardless of whether I target town or scum, unless my FULL role flips upon my death, there's incentive for me to claim my full role, because if I hold back a part of it, camn might not reveal it and if she doesn't the town could make some costly incorrect assumptions.
Ergo, fullclaim.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

MASTIN IS TOWN FOR FUCK SAKE STOP.

[mastina]

I skim Mastina posts for like, keywords and shit a lot.

Yes, you skim.
You don't ignore.

The problem with Prism wasn't saying they skimmed.
It's in saying they ignored me.

Skimming is something everyone does. Anyone claiming they don't skim is a liar.
Ignoring is something only scum benefit from.