Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[MortFeld]

Oh yeah, scum no killing lets Chaos investigate more people. So the game state doesn't remain the same, and progressively benefits town more.

Thanks.

[MortFeld]

I'm not opppsed to a Nero lynch, I just can't shake the feeling that RK is scum based on how she described Nero's play.

Are you referring to when RK townread Nero based on very little data?

[MortFeld]

So you're saying you think RK is more likely than Nero to be scum because of that post?

[MortFeld]

@LUV Ok, then you wouldn't be opposed to lynching Nero and confirming RK?

I'll get to the specifics of your case either later ronight or in the morning but if you think I am scum why did you say?

I'm not confident at all in town!Naomi come LYLO,

but I am confident in town!Nero

.

I was saying that if Naomi is town, I don't trust her to find the scum in LYLO, but if you are town, I do trust you. It was a statement on who to night confirm - Naomi is a better target than you are. I don't believe this anymore. The statement was based on perceived player skill.

Unvote because rb said he wants to slow down the game, and I agree.

[MortFeld]

It was a statement on who to night confirm - Naomi is a better target than you are. I don't believe this anymore.

I should clarify this. You are less of a variable in my mind than Naomi is. I think she is town, but I could go either way. I am more sure that you are scum. This makes you a better lynch than a night confirm. But, I think your slot needs sorting before anything else.

still not sold on Naomi being town after she basically admitted to pushing a bullshit argument.

I'm also not sold. Do you think she is scum?

[MortFeld]

Ah I missed your bolded vote.

If the case on Naomi is "pushed a bullshit argument" when the bulk of the case was not the refuted argument, I'd still rather lynch Nero.

[MortFeld]

I was saying you didn't post D2 I can't link to posts you didn't make

You said he posted elsewhere on the site

[MortFeld]

I can't quote games that are active.

I didn't ask you to link the posts actually, just to copy and paste the time/date. You're EST right?

[MortFeld]

Hm? That post from Nero was on Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:07 pm. Day 2 ended at Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:58 am. So it was 2 hours after day end.

Fishy, but it is untrue to say that post was during Day 2.

Pedit: ah ok. Explain how he's been inactive? I just did a big PBPA of his concrete activity.

[MortFeld]

i feel like doing it just to see how long keyenpeydee will take to end the game somehow

can we do it?

Yes! Scum no kill indefinitely please. 2 birds with one stone - makes this game especially notable for at least 2 reasons, and assures a town win.

[MortFeld]

For the record Nero, I'm not going for a Naomi lynch today. It's between you and RK for me, with the other getting JKd. Unless you have a convincing Naomi case, you're on a vanity wagon.

[MortFeld]

Im not sure if this'll fly for the rest of town but I'm gonna try it so here is another thing that may prove nero!red or me dumb. So; If you guys was in nero's position. Where you know there is one red left and one of the players focused you HARD, Like unreasonablly hard. Would you think they are

A) A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abadon that will only kill themselves and end the game if they are red the next day as its not in lylo.
or B) A Green who is convinced they know who the last red is

i feel that A) is not a thing that can really come from a green motive (as thats what nero selected) I think their vote is another red tell...
I'm not sure if you guys agree or if i'm just reaching but whatever. Thats for the world to choose.

Are you saying that Nero focused you hard, and that Nero is "A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abandon"? Or are you saying that Nero thinks you are A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abadon?

If it's the former, your argument is circular. If it's the latter, I don't understand the point.

2841 is a derp, probably more of a townderp than a scumderp. Would you call this LAMIST? scum!Naomi saying 'scum might have a godfather' is an attempt to mimic a towntell, since obviously there can be no godfather in a normal, and town!Naomi wouldn't know the last mafia's role. Seems NAI.

2838 is pretty much how I feel about Nero's case on Naomi right now. I'd need more to think she's scum.

Naomi, just so you know, Arc is (probably?) going to announce who she's jailing before she does it. This gives her JK ability the added benefit of being able to confirm townies, in addition to being able to find scum. But it does mean that she won't jail someone based on a lynch's flip.

[MortFeld]

Are you saying that Nero focused you hard, and that Nero is "A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abandon"? Or are you saying that Nero thinks you are A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abandon?

Im saying that its the latter here, but that view point doesn't line up with it being non-lylo (8 to 1) as if nero does flip green i'm pretty much killed myself and I think from a town perspective that would be kinda obvious. The fact they omgus'd and tried to convince others to lynch me rather than trying to convince me to drop where I'm going seems like a red move.. if you think about his motives for voting me its. They pushed me, and then got my idle times incorrect. Which both seem like kinda weak reasons.

Thanks for explaining. You said that, if you really were a red tunneling hard on Nero, "if nero does flip green i'm pretty much killed myself and I think from a town perspective that would be kinda obvious." Why would it be less obvious from a scum perspective?

That is, why would scum be more likely to take actions based on belief of the contrary; that the town might not sort you tomorrow, and that you need to be sorted today while Nero is alive to convince people?

[MortFeld]

Let me restate your argument so I understand.

1) Nero is pushing Naomi.
2) His reason for doing so is Naomi's push on him.
3) Either Naomi's push is town motivated, or it is scum motivated.
4) For Nero to be voting Naomi for her push on Nero, Nero must think it is scum motivated.
5) This would characterize Naomi in Nero's mind as a Red looking to get a kill on a Green with reckless abandon.
5.5) the other side would be that Naomi is a Green who is convinced they know who the last red is.
6) A town player would have no reason to think that 4) and 5) are true. This is because it is obvious to town that a tunneling scum would die after they player they tunneled flips green.
6.5) The reason Nero doesn't see 6) is because he is only trying to assure a mislynch, not find the last scum.
7) Therefore, Nero's push must be scum motivated.

A few questions.

-Is this a faithful reproduction of your argument? If not, please let me know where I'm mixed up.
-How is 6.5) not circular? You are saying that Nero is missing a town perspective for 6) because he has a scum motivation (trying to get a mislynch) for voting you. But saying he has a scum motivation presupposes that he is scum-aligned.
-Is the second part of 6) true? Think about town!Nero. Assume he really does think you're the last scum. From his perspective, if he is lynched today and he flips town, do you really think he believes you will be lynched tomorrow?

I think you've hinted at the missing piece but I want to make sure you say it. I think this is pretty much a damning argument at this point in time given the right support.

[MortFeld]

As 6.5 is stated it is circular.

Basically the missing piece is that Nero does believe that you won't be lynched tomorrow. This is obvious based on his voting you instead of RK. As town, he would have no reason to believe this, since you have been pushing him all day. As scum, he has ample reason to believe this. If he dies, the game is over. Therefore, his push of you is definitely scummy.

It is odd that he's not voting RK. His case against you (as it stands) is bad. As either alignment, you'd think he'd get on his counterwagon.

@Nero, Naomi is not getting lynched today. What do you think about RK?

[MortFeld]

well he did put a bit of shade my way heavily focusing on me getting the prod times wrong. also saying things like; shouldn't a player from a long time ago know this. Which kinda reads to me like he thought that he could turn the entire town on my Position given my Activity.

Are you saying that Nero does think town will actually lynch you tomorrow if Nero is lynched and flips town? I don't get what this post is responding to.

And why do you characterize this as shade? It seems valid to me. 'Trying to turn town against __' is also a way of framing 'trying to convince town that __ is scum,' which is something both town and scum do.

[MortFeld]

well he did put a bit of shade my way heavily focusing on me getting the prod times wrong. also saying things like; shouldn't a player from a long time ago know this. Which kinda reads to me like he thought that he could turn the entire town on my Position given my Activity.

Are you saying that Nero does think town will actually lynch you tomorrow if Nero is lynched and flips town? I don't get what this post is responding to.

And why do you characterize this as shade? It seems valid to me. 'Trying to turn town against __' is also a way of framing 'trying to convince town that __ is scum,' which is something both town and scum do.

Just the way they did it. like quoting my experience despite only having less than a handful of games and stuff..

I'm not saying they think green. I'm saying they think red looking to flip tables on me seems more red than green.

You misunderstood my first question but it's not a big deal. I agree with your argument or at least a version of it.

[MortFeld]

I'll get to the specifics of your case either later ronight or in the morning

Waiting.

[MortFeld]

It's not literally a counterwagon but it is functionally the town consensus for an alternative to your lynch.

[MortFeld]

Like other than RK I'm the path of least resistance today so why would it be impossible for scum you to push me today?

-Premise: Naomi's push of you is scum motivated.
-Either your flipping town will result in Naomi's being lynched tomorrow, since she seems to be tunneled on you, or it will not result in her being lynched tomorrow.
-You are trying to convince town to lynch Naomi today amidst some resistance.
-You would not do this if you believed that Naomi will be lynched tomorrow as a result of her tunneling.

[MortFeld]

Like other than RK I'm the path of least resistance today so why would it be impossible for scum you to push me today?

-Premise: Naomi's push of you is scum motivated.
-Either your flipping town will result in Naomi's being lynched tomorrow, since she seems to be tunneled on you, or it will not result in her being lynched tomorrow.
-You are trying to convince town to lynch Naomi today amidst some resistance.
-You would not do this if you believed that Naomi will be lynched tomorrow as a result of her tunneling.
-Therefore, you believe that Naomi will not be lynched tomorrow.
-One reason for this is that you are scum and know that your flip ends the game.

EBWOP. Yes, it is possible for town!Nero to believe that Naomi will not die tomorrow if Nero flips town despite her being the most adamant proponent of a Nero lynch. But this means that Nero acknowledges that people have reasons to townread Naomi. Perhaps this would be a place to start convincing people? I have yet to see a real Naomi case from Nero.

[MortFeld]

mort who are we voting today?

Probably Nero, if not Nero then RK. Very long ball on Naomi.

[MortFeld]

Did you play chat mafia before coming here Mort?

I've been in plenty of games where scum pushes town and town doesn't lynch scum/who pushed town the next day so its no guarantee but there's a good chance that she'd be copp'd/docced.

Yeah I agree with this. This is definitely the weak point in that argument, which basically only stands now because you lack a case on Naomi. Although I will say that if you and RK die and flip town going into tomorrow Naomi is probably next.

[MortFeld]

And yeah I've played chat mafia on a forum with Melee people. There's been a fairly large influx of people from there to here recently.

[MortFeld]

LUV what are your thoughts on being confirmed tonight instead of Nero/RK?

[MortFeld]

mort who are we voting today?

Probably Nero, if not Nero then RK. Very long ball on Naomi.

I don't think Nero is scum. I can confirm it tomorrow. I can jail keep him tonight.

Bleh. Who is your vote then?

[MortFeld]

I am not voting NERO. Period.

If guys are lynching Nero then I am not listening to anyone either. Its vice versa. I am done with noob arguments with the VI's. If you want to team work, I am game for it but this isn't team work. Nobody events wants to listen to me.

I'm pretty sure asking you who you want to lynch is trying to get your input ∴ listening.

I'm very game for teamwork. A couple questions:

1) Again, who is your preferred lynch, and a backup? You said

I am not around for 24 hours. I am okay lynching RK. Go ahead.

Is this still where you stand? And if not RK, then who if your second choice?

2) Can you explain your Nero townread in a way that others can understand? So far it amounts to "he's playing like he does as town" which, while I completely understand how it informs your townread, you cannot possibly expect to cause anyone else to townread him.

[MortFeld]

I am not voting NERO. Period.
I am done with noob arguments with the VI's.

I agree that your recent arguments with Naomi were unnecessary. What do you think about my case on Nero? Answers not accepted: the case is bad because he is town.

[MortFeld]

Lynch Nero/RK.
Jail Nero/RK.
Cop LUV.

[MortFeld]

Yeah I just want LUV sorted or at least partially sorted before tomorrow. If he's town I'd rather he be alive toward LYLO.

[MortFeld]

If we're not killing Nero then we jail him yes. And I personally want LUV's alignment checked but Chaos can of course check whoever he wants to. Pref not rb or the person being jailed.

[MortFeld]

Ah I see, we're finalizing actions. Jail Nero. Expressing intent to lynch RK.

[MortFeld]

Unvote please.

[MortFeld]

Nobody hammer.

[MortFeld]

Ok cool.

Anything else we need to work out before hammer?

[MortFeld]

Sure.

VOTE: RK

[MortFeld]

MOD NOTES:

If someone has been hammered for the next few hours, Expect the flip to be delayed because it's night here and I need to sleep. Feel free to discuss more when y'all are waiting.

[MortFeld]

If we had lynched Nero yesterday we'd have lynched scum 3 days in a row

[MortFeld]

Hm. What does everyone think about no-lynch today and letting Chaos investigate Nero? I want to be sure.

[MortFeld]

Hm. What does everyone think about no-lynch today and letting Chaos investigate Nero? I want to be sure.

Forgot Chaos can't do this. Eh, it's not really a big deal. The whole issue with Chaos living to LYLO doesn't exist anymore with an extra night.

[MortFeld]

Yeah lynch the jailed target and win.

This is not guaranteed true, as I spent like 20 posts discussing Day 3. There is a chance Nero is town which would give us even numbers, no good.

[MortFeld]

U_U We jailed the obvious red and no kill happened.. are you gonna suggest we no lynch and jail nero indefinitely till we can cop everyone?

We only need to cop Nero.

[MortFeld]

Bored.com

Sorry, I feel like making sure we win.

[MortFeld]

I know, which is why I'm waiting for Arc.

If Arc comes back and says she jailed Nero and then we lynch him, he flips town, and we kill someone who could have been a confirmed townie, I'm not gonna be happy.

[MortFeld]

To be fair as there was no NK we are on even numbers right now.

Oh, so we are. Not sure how I missed that. Yeah, lynch Nero once Arc confirms.

[MortFeld]

So far my scum points method is 100% effective

[MortFeld]

To be fair as there was no NK we are on even numbers right now.

Oh, so we are. Not sure how I missed that. Yeah, lynch Nero once Arc confirms.

Wait, no. We're on even numbers, I didn't miss anything. If we lynch and Nero is town, scum kill tonight and we have 6.

[MortFeld]

Er, I should say - we're on even numbers tomorrow if we lynch, odd tomorrow if we no lynch.

[MortFeld]

Its impossible for us to lose.
Even if NC is town. Arc announces her jail target. If a kill happens that person she targeted is clear. So that's 4 clear townies if any of the other cleared townies are killed. That 4 cleared townies and 2 non cleared. We have 2 lynches. Auto win.

This isn't true if Arc's jail target was Nero.

[MortFeld]

Oh I see what you meant. Let me think about it.

[MortFeld]

hehe. I was town. Lynch the fuck out of Naomi tomorrow.

Can we please jail Nero for a couple more nights and no lynch? We have literally no incentive not to.

[MortFeld]

We have literally no incentive not to.

Except that Shadow is bored.

[MortFeld]

VOTE: No Lynch

[MortFeld]

You know what we should do... lets all quote our role pm's bar RB and Mort.

I'm not confirmed town.

[MortFeld]

Chaos copped me, yes. Chaos can still be scum, though this would have required a serious gambit not worth considering IMO until LYLO.

Continuing to jail Nero actually has a double purpose. Once Chaos cops everyone he either has to return a guilty result or we know he's scum. Once we lynch the guilty, if they flip town we know Chaos is scum.

We have literally. No. Incentive. Not to no lynch today. Stop being stubborn people and win the game optimally.

[MortFeld]

Chaos copped me, yes. Chaos can still be scum, though this would have required a serious gambit not worth considering IMO until LYLO.

Continuing to jail Nero actually has a double purpose. Once Chaos cops everyone he either has to return a guilty result or we know he's scum. Once we lynch the guilty, if they flip town we know Chaos is scum.

We have literally. No. Incentive. Not to no lynch today. Stop being stubborn people and win the game optimally.

yeah but that'll take forever! given the two day down time inbetween.. going for one more cop is another week worth of waiting... and that kinda sucks..

Would you rather play poorly? I don't understand this... what's the motivation to get this game over with if there are still fringe cases where we lose?

[MortFeld]

Mod, will the game end in a draw after a certain number of days & nights without a lynch/kill?

Key already answered this iirc, said that this has never happened and Key isn't sure.

[MortFeld]

I know, which is why I'm waiting for Arc.

If Arc comes back and says she jailed Nero and then we lynch him, he flips town, and we kill someone who could have been a confirmed townie, I'm not gonna be happy.

Lol. Now you're thinking like me..


Good. So who did i target last night. Let me re-check that.

Looking forward to seeing the result. If it's Nero we likely win the game with no-lynch today.

[MortFeld]

Looking forward to seeing the result. If it's Nero we likely win the game with no-lynch today.

Today and tomorrow.

[MortFeld]

Stop voting to lynch Nero.

[MortFeld]

Lynch the asshole. the jailor prevented them taking a kill all the reds didn't push them and there lurky as fuck. JUST DO IT >_< I sware to god I'll kill myself if you don't >_< I'm not being held hostage in this game because you think all the reds not pushing them, them not contributing and no kill happening when there blocked isn't enough to go off of. I am not waiting 3 weeks to confirm everyone because your a chicken shit. fuck that. grow some balls and kill the guy the jailor has a positive on. >_<

This is a lot of abuse to take from someone advocating a play that has a chance to lose when there is one with literally no chance to lose. Replace out if you don't want to wait but you are gamethrowing if you don't.

[MortFeld]

Obviously Nero is 99% scum. But No Lynch and Arc jailing again is correct.

@Mod if someone is V/LA during night and they have a power role, what happens?

[MortFeld]

I'm ignoring you now. This game is solved, I'm not going to put any effort into convincing people who don't want to take the solution.

[MortFeld]

Naomi, the game is basically over so it's not like being in this game for another 3 more weeks is going to be too much trouble. I've barely focused on this game since Toto was lynched.

This. I just think it would be a major shame if Chaos was scum or if Nero was town and we threw because people didn't feel like waiting.

[MortFeld]

So Your literally holding me hostage, thus why im holding you hostage. I will kill myself if no lynch happens today.

This is incredibly petty, and also a little crass.

[MortFeld]

I get that it's confusing for you to be in two games at once, but this game is going to develop minimally. I refuse to vote for Nero when there's another option that guarantees a town win.

[MortFeld]

1) We have a jailor positive on them. So there red.

They could be town.

2) If they are green that is one less person to cop to complete the game

You are arguing that it is beneficial to lynch a townie when we don't have to.

3) as we are not in lylo or mylo it also free's up the jailor to prevent the correct killer killing as at the moment if they are green we are halfling our PR hunting and they can just kill when they wish

Explain this more. I'm not getting it.

4) As we are not in lylo or mylo the result of them being killed and them being green is getting myself back to full production as I conciser other targets.

Why do you need to be at full production if the game is already solved? You just have to type VOTE: No Lynch for 2 days.

5) Not sitting here for the 3 weeks it'll take to cop the remaining people.

You are willingly playing poorly because you have no patience.

[MortFeld]

I'll check it when I have time. Probably and hour or two.

[MortFeld]

The main issue with lynching today is that if Nero is town, and Arc doesn't jail the scum tonight, they can no kill again to get us to lynch another townie and confirm nobody.

[MortFeld]

Confirmed townies are arguably worse for scum than missing nightkills.

[MortFeld]

I'll vote Nero as soon as Arc tells us who she's jailing tonight in the event of Nero town flip.

Request for Naomi.

[MortFeld]

I do have the game solved. I haven't tried to solve it yet in the event that we lynch Nero today.

If there's a solution that doesn't involve Naomi throwing a fit, we should take it.

[MortFeld]

Mort why is Nero town if scum are no killing. He just could be scum who didn't kill.

Also when the JK target is already outed. Scum literally do not have a reason to not kill the cop. It's just impossible.

If scum kill the Cop, we get a confirmed townie (Nero). If scum no kill, the Cop gets a result. Confirmed townie. So if by "Scum literally do not have a reason to not kill the cop" you mean that scum have equivalent reasons to kill the Cop, and to not kill the Cop, then sure I agree. How does this mean that scum would never no kill?

[MortFeld]

And I never said that Nero is town? I'd put money on his being scum.

But why bet when I can just take a sure thing?

[MortFeld]

If Nero is scum, we only have to wait a maximum of two extra days using my method. If Nero is town, then my method was necessary (maybe, haven't worked out the alternative) and we can lynch someone else. I don't think there's a scenario where we spend forever Cop confirming everyone.

[MortFeld]

Spoiler: analysis

Day 1. Players Alive: 8

We lynch Nero.

Shadow
LUV

Mort

rb

Chaos

Naomi

Nero

Arc

Green = confirmed town. Blue = PRs.

Night 1.
Scum kill Arc or Chaos. Probably Arc. Arc jails Naomi. Chaos doesn't get a Cop check.

Day 2. Players Alive: 6

Shadow
LUV

Mort

rb

Chaos

Naomi

Arc

We lynch LUV.

Night 2. Players Alive: 5

Shadow

LUV

Mort

rb

Chaos

Naomi

Scum kill Chaos.

Day 3. Players Alive: 4. MYLO.

Shadow

Mort

rb

Chaos

Naomi

We lynch Shadow.

Night 3. Players Alive: 3. Town wins.

Shadow

Mort

rb

Naomi

This assumes Chaos is Cop. If Chaos is scum, the tree diverges before he is killed.

Night 2. Players Alive: 5

Shadow

LUV

Mort

rb

Chaos

Naomi

Scum kill a confirmed townie. Say, rb.

Day 3. Players Alive: 4. MYLO.

Shadow

Mort

rb

Chaos

Naomi

We lynch Shadow.

Night 3. Players Alive: 3

Shadow

Mort

Chaos

Naomi

Scum kills Naomi.

Day 4. Players Alive: 2

Mort

Chaos

Naomi

Scum win.

At Day 3 we're in MYLO. Say we No Lynch (which we should do today instead).

Day 3. Players Alive: 4. MYLO.

Shadow

Mort

rb

Chaos

Naomi

No lynch.

Night 3. Players Alive: 4

Shadow

Mort

Chaos

Naomi

Scum kills Naomi.

Day 4. Players Alive: 3. LYLO.

Shadow

Mort

Chaos

Naomi

Town win. There has to be a confirmed townie still up, whoever is unconfirmed but town will know that Chaos is scum.

I'm convinced. Town wins even if Chaos is scum, assuming we No Lynch at MYLO. We just need confirmation of who Arc is jailing tonight since she's the likely nightkill if Nero is town.

I'm salty at Shadow, who tried to convince me that I was wrong without doing the work. Naomi tried but she didn't do all of the necessary work.

[MortFeld]

Chaos can be sum. Nothing rules it out, though a number of things make it a nearly impossibly thin possibility, including the setup.

[MortFeld]

Oh yeah. Arc is V/LA until the 8th.

[MortFeld]

Not sure. I just know she is.

[MortFeld]

I'm convinced. Town wins even if Chaos is scum, assuming we No Lynch at MYLO.

I already said this. Problem is that we need a JK tonight for the game to be 100% solved, and Arc is V/LA.

[MortFeld]

The math still works out if we only lynch once right Mort?

Only if we get a JK tonight.

[MortFeld]

But yes it doesn't matter when we no lynch. We can do it tomorrow or the next day.

[MortFeld]

We should kill Nero today either way.

I al literally just making sure we get a JK, since Arc is V/LA.

[MortFeld]

Arc we are waiting to know who you'll target if nero is green to move on with the game. please tell us.

This! Most likely the game ends after a Nero lynch but we can't lynch him until we have a contingency.

[MortFeld]

Good to see this is how rb acts when he's conftown PuppeyFace

[MortFeld]

Maybe I should just que..

Don't see why not. As I said, this game is solved.

[MortFeld]

true... but its not officially resolved.. hmm... you think if I asked the mod would allow me to talk about my meta in this game while its active? If I remember correctly It is okay if the mod gives permission

I'm not sure but it wouldn't help because you're not even confirmed town in this game.

[MortFeld]

Are you one of those people who is unhelpful as town so that they can win more often as scum?

[MortFeld]

You were extremely quiet and you basically only voted me. The fact that I don't even remember your reads is a testament to how quiet you were.

[MortFeld]

I know rb, I was kidding

BrokeBack Mortain is hilarious though

[MortFeld]

UNVOTE:

Fine with delaying until Arc gets back.

Who did you target last night what are your results chaos?

He already said. He targeted me and I'm town.

[MortFeld]

UNVOTE:

Fine with delaying until Arc gets back.

Who did you target last night what are your results chaos?

He already said. He targeted me and I'm town.

That sounds convenient!!! This even worsting my read on him. Think this from scum perspective. You're the probably one player who doesn't require conformation and here be comes with a result on you. Very fishy!!!

It doesn't matter. We win even if Chaos is scum.

You jailed Nero, right? You can jail Chaos tonight if you want but I'm requesting Naomi. Just let us know who.

[MortFeld]

I wonder what the dead thread looks like.

[MortFeld]

I used to play League with friends. But I tend to get too stressed doing things I'm not good at, and I am not good at League, so I stopped.

[MortFeld]

Thanks Mr. Skeleton I won't forget it

[MortFeld]

Yeah the fact that she's actually posted yet avoided saying the literally 2 things we need to end the day and probably the game, is very bothersome.

[MortFeld]

Oh.

UNVOTE:

[MortFeld]

I guess I'll actually respond to something.

UNVOTE:

Fine with delaying until Arc gets back.

Who did you target last night what are your results chaos?

He already said. He targeted me and I'm town.

That sounds convenient!!! This even worsting my read on him. Think this from scum perspective. You're the probably one player who doesn't require conformation and here be comes with a result on you. Very fishy!!!

It doesn't matter. We win even if Chaos is scum.

You jailed Nero, right? You can jail Chaos tonight if you want but I'm requesting Naomi. Just let us know who.

I should not be the jail target tonight. Naomi is a fine choice.

If Arc blocks someone and there's a kill, we get a third clear tonight. Presumably, Arc would be the kill just because of how fast she can confirm people. If we no lynch and there's a kill, we're at 7 with 3 confirmed (rb, Mort, and Arc's target). We lynch one of the three non-confirms that isn't me, and I get an investigation N5. Scum either kills me, in which case there's 3 confirmed to 2 others, which is a town autowin, or they let me investigate and clear another player. If I'm scum and don't die, I either claim an innocent result, which puts me in the two others and I'm lynched with the other non-confirmed person, or I claim a guilty, we lynch the guilty, they flip town, and I'm lynched in LYLO the next day.

Obviously, if scum no-kill tonight or if Arc successfully blocks a kill, we don't get a third confirm, but she would get to try again the next night plus my investigation the next night.

Essentially, my point is that right now, scum have to weigh killing me to prevent more people from being confirmed while shrinking the pool of people that aren't confirmed. If I become confirmed town, I'm the obvious kill choice the next night.

Hm. I forgot that scum!Chaos could return a false guilty in MYLO. Let me recheck my solution.

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Nevermind, Chaos' inno on me is enough for town to win even if scum!Chaos lives to MYLO.

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I agree that Chaos is a suboptimal jail target since he's already so close to confirmed town.

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We should not allow ourselves to go to mylo as long as one of the two PR's remain.

We always go into MYLO, technically. We just have to No Lynch at MYLO to win, but we could No Lynch earlier and it's the same thing.

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We should not allow ourselves to go to mylo as long as one of the two PR's remain.

We always go into MYLO, technically. We just have to No Lynch at MYLO to win, but we could No Lynch earlier and it's the same thing.

would be a big risk.. I think keeping out of mylo encase one PR lies will allow us to win 100%

It literally doesn't matter but if it makes you feel safer we can No Lynch the day before MYLO instead.

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It doesn't matter if chaos is scum. He always dies at LYLO because he confirmed me.

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We literally lynch whoever arc jailed and make sure she jails someone in {shadow luv Naomi} tonight and that's enough conftown to guarantee a win.

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This game is still going on...

talk to arc

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^Nero talking like he knows a kill won't happen tbh

RB missrepping my point. Though TBF I did misread his statement. I had thought he was saying that if there is no kill tomorrow night that Naomi will be confirmed town. I am likely dying today, why is it scummy for me to believe that a Naomi block is blocking scums kill?

It's not. It's pretty much the only rational viewpoint for you to have.

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Okay so I'm going to be straight with you. This is what I want in your next post Arc.

1. Who you targeted last night.

Are you blind? otherwise you're clearly not reading the game. I targeted Nero as requested by the town. Now please stop derping.



I ll be back from my vacation tomorrow morning. I have few things I would like to discuss before we end this day. I am not sure why all the brag about finishing the day so early when we have so much time.

Mod wont replace me out because I called for V/LA. I was out of town, this happens all the time. So please stop nagging on things that are not important because it is not helping..

I ll share my thoughts pretty soon. Now, hold your pants please!

No brag, just frustration given that the game is solved but we can't end it.

Even if Nero is town, town still wins.

Though I am still very willing to do the No Lynch strategy, it's not necessary for a town win assuming town are all moderately intelligent.

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Are you blind? otherwise you're clearly not reading the game. I targeted Nero as requested by the town. Now please stop derping.

Arc, you never confirmed this and two nights ago you jailed rb which was clearly against what the town wanted.

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Nero probably not scum. I want to hear Mort thoughts.

Mort - Please speak up.

I don't mind mislynching a townie if that helps all of you see the scum for all of us. If nero flips town, Can we all agree that Chaos is scum?

I've already spoken up.

We lynch Nero today. If he flips town, the number of

confirmed

townies is still enough for town to win by PoE. EVEN IF CHAOS IS SCUM and he lives until LYLO, he is guaranteed to be alive alongside a confirmed townie. He also is forced to give another result before LYLO because of the no kill last night, which means either a false guilty (he dies) or a true inno (he confirms yet another townie).

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Drone lynch was a crapshoot, game could have gone very very differently if we had lynched HS or Naomi or someone else.

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Did my yelling against the HS and Naomi lynches do anything at all? P sure i would pushed drone if i hadnt been lynched, at least

You were alive during the Drone lynch. You didn't vote

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Ya you were out of it this game LOL

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I mean of course Drone was scummy. But I did feel like, had Toto and Nero been louder, we could definitely have lynched a number of other people.

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Ha. Read the dead thread. More on my day 4 thought process when I get home.

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My play Day 4 was dumb, I agree. That said, Chaos wasn't confirmed, and it was entirely possible that scum no killed, so the only issue with my being cautious was that the game took longer. I guess I should understand that people have lives and also wanted to get the fark out of this game.

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Scum nk to frame somebody almost never works.

In a vacuum maybe not, not gonna dispute that. And in this game with the Cop and JK both alive it would have been detrimental. All I was saying was that it was a

possibility

and that town had the luxury of being able play around it, until I did the math and realized town 100% won even if Nero was town.

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gg, sorry i played so shit teem, would love to play w/ rb, mort, chaos, uzi, naomi, drone, and kamelot again, not to kick shit at anybody not in this list
i think we all learned a lot from this game, and my play in particular has skyrocketed

I'd love to play with you again also. I might queue up for next though I don't have faith in my ability to play 2 games at once.

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I recall 2F suspecting you right? Was it shitty reasons? Or?

Good reasons. HS was a good exercise for me at least in 'does objectively scummy things, sounds very very town, is town.'

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Oh true, but some things I do could definately be shewed that way. take my day 1 play. I only saw TvT I said it ws TvT but a smart Red player could easily of pushed that as fence sitting. which I could then eventually work out they was a red and vote them inresponce they could call for an omgus or chainsaw defence. so.. yeah..

Am I missing something? Calling an argument TvT isn't bad town play if you think it's TvT. Of course scum might twist it by saying it's fence sitting, that's what scum do for any town action.

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It sounds like you're saying your Green meta involves anti-Green play. Seems like less of a 'lol Naomi is so hard to read' and more of something you could work on?

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The only person who really pushed for your lynch this game was town.

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Mort is a cool dude
What fighting games do you play? I've forsaken them myself, but I used to love me some anime fighters.
MVC4 is coming to steam, so I might give that another shot depending on how the australian online scene is (mostly if it exists lel)

Just SSBM. I played Melty at a friend's arcade but that went miserably since I had never used an arcade stick before lol

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It sounds like you're saying your Green meta involves anti-Green play. Seems like less of a 'lol Naomi is so hard to read' and more of something you could work on?

honestly I like my style its more honest and open.. despite the anti-town stuff inherent to it. Most of the time people kinda work out around D2 that I gotta be town based on my actions so.. I feel that it does the job.

It also sets up a pretty reasonable argument that your Red play looks like your Green play, at least until you play enough Red games.

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Yeah I never understood the smash hate because I never even played video games as a kid. Wasn't allowed to until I moved out lol. Also everyone I personally know in the melee community is pretty cool.

I'm pretty sure we only have one Round 1? Unless you count long beach as LA

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It sounds like you're saying your Green meta involves anti-Green play. Seems like less of a 'lol Naomi is so hard to read' and more of something you could work on?

honestly I like my style its more honest and open.. despite the anti-town stuff inherent to it. Most of the time people kinda work out around D2 that I gotta be town based on my actions so.. I feel that it does the job.

It also sets up a pretty reasonable argument that your Red play looks like your Green play, at least until you play enough Red games.

I think if I was doing a red game I just would try to forget who my team is and just post normally I think it probs is the only way to really play given my style XD

Yeah I'd venture that this is kinda objectively wrong red play? So that reinforces the idea that you play suboptimally resulting in that people can't meta you, though that might not be the intent.

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A good number of melee players actually joined MS recently. Hopefully they'll stick with it, though I doubt it.

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Let me guess, melee forums got mafia?
I would assume this is where ssbm_kyouko comes from too?

Yeah smash twitter made its own mafia forum. Some fun games actually.

And I don't think so. The people I know of are Laudandus, shadonra, and pineconerush.

:3 I just play league of legends for my 'fighting game' fix :3 its slower pace and less skill (combo) and more thinking tallent

Yeah the way I'd compare them is that league takes more strategic planning than melee does. If your plan is inadequate coming into a melee set you're pretty screwed, whereas in league, even bronze players adapt their plan throughout the game.

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Can we all play together?

Even me?

I'm not blacklisting you after reading the dead thread, FWIW.

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Why do you think Arc townread you so strongly, Nero? Like did you do anything specific to engineer that?

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No lynching Day 4 and 5 wasn't that bad.

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I talked too much this game.

I need to learn how to be loud without micromanaging the thread now that I have a job.

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LOL wtf