Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[Prism]

I mean, it couldn't have been that blatant since I had to spoil the answer.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: TheRealGinNTonic

This is my next scumread after Mastina.

Is Mastina confirmable? I do not know for sure. If Mastina is scum, it would be trivial to claim to recruit a partner. We should wait for a while until Day 2 or 3 (probably 3) and seeing if Mastina dies or not (although scum may gambit by not killing Mastina). For now, I think I will let Mastina live.

Vaxkiller, I may be willing to vote Fate but first can you please give a summary of your case on Fate?

[Nachomamma8]

The biggest factor here to determine is whether Pine picked one of Fate/Nacho and they're playing a top-form scumgame, or if Pine didn't pick one of Fate/Nacho first, and they're both town.

Earlier, you pointed out that there are several possible avenues Pine could have taken.
If you are correct, one of me/Fate/you are scum; the logic for the picks you laid out doesn't make sense otherwise.
That means if we are all town, it's time to throw a good number of those assumptions out.

Am I wrong?

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: TheRealGinNTonic

This is my next scumread after Mastina.

Is Mastina confirmable? I do not know for sure. If Mastina is scum, it would be trivial to claim to recruit a partner. We should wait for a while until Day 2 or 3 (probably 3) and seeing if Mastina dies or not (although scum may gambit by not killing Mastina). For now, I think I will let Mastina live.

Vaxkiller, I may be willing to vote Fate but first can you please give a summary of your case on Fate?

Explain your scumread; don't be slippery and run away.

[Nachomamma8]

it would be trivial to claim to recruit a partner.

Claiming a partner makes the pair lovers; which means if someone catches Mastina, they both die. Alternatively, if someone catches Mastina's partner, they also both die. That's not trivial as much as it is really fucking stupid.

[Nachomamma8]

I mean, it couldn't have been that blatant since I had to spoil the answer.

There's something you're missing and I'm surprised that you're missing, but this is going off the rails and is 100% a post-game conversation.

[Nachomamma8]

But the obvious part was that you were manipulating mastina into that townread and you wanted me to know it.

[Nachomamma8]

BTD6 I responded within a minute; I know there's no way in hell that you just posted that and left. If you need to go, then just post a "g2g" or something similar.

[Prism]

I concur that it's a postgame conversation, as I said I have a tendency to opt for the personally fascinating over useful. After 7 years taking the same paths gets old, you know? I just couldn't resist that last shot.

Anyway I get the feeling you realize I'm town if you are, even if you won't admit it, so let's rock some shit later tonight.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: TheRealGinNTonic

This is my next scumread after Mastina.

Is Mastina confirmable? I do not know for sure. If Mastina is scum, it would be trivial to claim to recruit a partner. We should wait for a while until Day 2 or 3 (probably 3) and seeing if Mastina dies or not (although scum may gambit by not killing Mastina). For now, I think I will let Mastina live.

Vaxkiller, I may be willing to vote Fate but first can you please give a summary of your case on Fate?

Explain your scumread; don't be slippery and run away.

I did, from 1055 to 1225.

[Nachomamma8]

Sum it up for me.

[Nachomamma8]

For example, I think that Monokuma is scum because their scumread on Fate is quite garbage and the way that they're pushing it is weird. I think that Cakez is scum because the pushes that he's trying to make lack all of that endearing conviction that I've experienced when he's tunneled me in the past.

[Nachomamma8]

In the meantime, yes I will read your posts and yes I will respond to the posts you've already written.

[BTD6_maker]

it would be trivial to claim to recruit a partner.

Claiming a partner makes the pair lovers; which means if someone catches Mastina, they both die. Alternatively, if someone catches Mastina's partner, they also both die. That's not trivial as much as it is really fucking stupid.

Am I missing something? If Mastina targets someone they will become Masons, not Lovers.

[Nachomamma8]

Masons are confirmed town to one another.
If mastina claims someone is confirmed town to her and then we found out that they're not, then what do you think our next move would be?

[Nachomamma8]

Again, no explanation for Ari being 100% scum. Also, you claim Mastina is Town purely because she is hard to lynch. This is faulty logic and does not clear anyone. Mastina is being wagoned. Some wagons lead to a lynch; some don't. It is possible to consistently avoid lynches even with a wagon. Also, I am doubting whether what you say is actually true about Mastina. Provide evidence.In short, Ari is not confscum and this reasoning is terrible. On Day 1 we only have one guaranteed confscum, and that's Pine.

Ari's scum meta is lurking and Ari replaced into this game to lurk. The chances that he is scum are high; no, they are not 100%, but Ari has a well-documented meta of lurking as scum and look he's lurking. This makes him a good choice in general.

Gin's point was that Mastina is a capable scum player and thus is hard to lynch as scum; you're right that the logic he's presenting is silly logic but I don't believe that having thoughts that are silly make a player scum. I don't know if you got that "mastina is hard to lynch as scum" evidence or not but she's a strong player; look at her ISO in the scumgames she linked and you should be able to see that easily enough.

[BTD6_maker]

We should in theory find out whether they are actually Town. However, chances are most people will simply trust Mastina so neither will be caught.

[Nachomamma8]

You claimed Ari was 100% confscum. Not posting much for some time may make someone slightly more likely to be scum, but nowhere near obvscum, let alone confscum (which can generally only be attained through Cops or similar investigatives). Also, you are claiming Ari can be read entirely through meta. I doubt there is anyone who can be read instantly through meta alone. Meta may help somewhat, but it is generally weaker than actually examining posts for scummy content (not just lack of content).

Questionable Content: Day 1, I see Aristophanes lurking. I call him 100% confirmed scum, complain about how he hasn't been lynched yet, laugh at people who aren't lynching him. He was scum.

1854. I say "hey guys, Aristophanes is posting a bunch, confirmed town". He was town.

No two games don't make a proper sample size but sometimes it really is that easy.

[Nachomamma8]

We should in theory find out whether they are actually Town. However, chances are most people will simply trust Mastina so neither will be caught.

The wagon on Mastina after she claimed mason recruiter says different.
The people who are calling mastina scum despite mason recruiter claim says different.

If she decided to claim it as scum, it makes sense to claim it when she's widely townread and thus could get away with some cheeky nonsense like that (our very own Fate got away with it in the past!). But she's not. Paranoia is following her everywhere she goes, and thus, mason recruiter is a horrible fucking claim.

[Nachomamma8]

You claimed Ari was 100% confscum. Not posting much for some time may make someone slightly more likely to be scum, but nowhere near obvscum, let alone confscum (which can generally only be attained through Cops or similar investigatives). Also, you are claiming Ari can be read entirely through meta. I doubt there is anyone who can be read instantly through meta alone. Meta may help somewhat, but it is generally weaker than actually examining posts for scummy content (not just lack of content).

Questionable Content: Day 1, I see Aristophanes lurking. I call him 100% confirmed scum, complain about how he hasn't been lynched yet, laugh at people who aren't lynching him. He was scum.

1854. I say "hey guys, Aristophanes is posting a bunch, confirmed town". He was town.

No two games don't make a proper sample size but sometimes it really is that easy.

And even if this didn't exist, it

still

wouldn't be alignment relevant; whether people can be read through meta or not is GAME THEORY and unless you have compelling reason to believe that Gin doesn't buy into that particular game theory then it's completely and utterly null.

[Nachomamma8]

You still with me, BTD6?

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

Except the person I was voting claimed something confirmable so I obviously wasn't going to stay there, while Fate just jumped to Prism because wagons???

Your reason for switching: "Well that wagon's not going to happen, let's go here".
Fate's reason for switching: "Well that wagon's not going to happen, let's go here".
Fate's explanation was actually better than yours:

He was on a two-man wagon including himself. He said that it might not happen, and that we might have to compromise. The only non-Fate, non-mastina, non-Monokuma (his vote at the time) wagon in the game? Prism, with two votes not including himself. So he switched. This was not a sudden inexplicable switch. He talked about the switch well before he actually did switch.

Your reason for switching was, as Fate so eloquently explained, "Well I don't buy it, but let's switch off anyway".

Fate mentioned Prism 2 times earlier: saying Prism was among the lurkers who could be scum, and yelling at Prism after they called him scum and voted him for his Monokuma push.
And then he moved there. Like this wouldn't have been as bad if he hadn't been doing "compromises" all fucking game. Just look at his ISO, he's vote hopped a dozen times.

What's town about it? I don't see it at all.

I don't know what to tell you if you can't see it because it's just so GLARINGLY obvious that I really can't figure out how to present it. Everything. Every thing. The tone, the content, what he's talking about, the sincerity, the validity of his points, the transition from one subject to the next, the way he addressed the points, the subjects he fit into that post, the whole damn thing was just town and if you don't see it I literally don't know what to tell you; there wasn't a shred of scum in that post. It was purely town.

It looked like Fate posting 101. I have no clue what you're referring to in that post, so we're going to be disagreeing here.

Can we just get rid of SAJ as a compromise?

Mastin town dies, mastin scum doesn't dies. Simple.

SAJ is lurker slot/fence sitter.

Bad slot is bad.

I ISOed SAJ to check this out and yeah their ISO is awful. So I would support this, if I absolutely can't get Fate through.

Like. Let me put it to you this way.
Thanks to this exchange?
I am 100% certain Gin-And-Tonic and Prism are town.
Fuck all my other reads, they can go to hell, you can scrap them all as far as I'm concerned in comparison to this.

Finally something that we agree on.

Consider the fact that mastina has been forthright about her notion that the votes to lynch her simply do not exist in this game. Now consider that she's right.

If this is the case, and she BELIEVES this is the case, why on EARTH would she claim something CONFIRMABLE in this situation at L-3?

Use your noggins, guys. Seriously.

This is convincing me
<.<
>.<

SAJ's ISO is hot garbage so I would compromise there but I'm not letting Fate get away without a fight.

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

Hell of a lot better than a me-lynch thats for sure

This is another example of the "compromise everywhere" stuff Fate is doing that I mentioned above.

[Nachomamma8]

oh good
my favorite snack food

[Nachomamma8]

he's vote hopped a dozen times.

This isn't a scumtell.
This is Fate 101.

[Nachomamma8]

Although you are absolutely right that his SAJ vote sucks.