Mini Normal 1873 (Game Over)

[Alisae]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69420

[karnos]

So Shannon, you're saying that, from your point of view, Jordan's play was like throwing a punch at LQ but holding back so he doesn't get the blame for it?

It's worse. He is throwing shade on LQ, and then when someone (me) took his words seriously he turned around and accused me of being scum jumping on an opportunistic wagon (of course, it was a wagon of 0 at the time I voted).

Why do you say you took nadroj's words seriously here? You said you voted LQ for defensiveness and over-explaining rather than his logic, but as far as I can tell nadroj's "shade throwing" was only based on LQ's logic.

UNVOTE:

don't really want my vote anywhere right now tbh

Are you actually reading the thread or just my iso? It was XnadrojX who started questioning LQ leading to his defensiveness & over-explaining. At the time I was taking XnadrojX for town pushing to find scum, and I didn't like LQs reaction.

[LicketyQuickety]

Throwing shade Lq

It means to make someone look bad with out committing to it.


Like you literally just did the mafia scum dictionary definition of throwing shade. You say you have me as a null read but you went out your way to say "have you thought of him knowing your town" Which in my mind doesn't even make sense. Because if I was a null read why are you worried about alisae view on me. Even then my answer was about trying to get a better read on alisae by not contaminating his thoughts. Also the same argument you made can be applied with

Alisae, can you see the angle where Garmr

knows

you are Town?

I could easily make bull shit up saying you only said this because your scum and you know alisae is town and you want to stop the garmr town read because you're afraid of me. But I won't because using he knows cases are bad.

Yep. Piccolo taught you how to dodge pretty well Gohan.

I see you're taking lessons in the 'annoy people until they give you what they want' school of scumhunting eh

There's a condition to my responding in full that has yet to be fulfilled that I expect to be soon. Simple as that.

I agree. Alisae is just being aggressive there is really no substance there. Unfortunately people follow people like them.

Talking about shade throwing. This makes alisae look bad and seems like your throwing it for the heck of it.

What is actually wrong with what I said? You haven't actually addressed the fact that your post CAN be taken as you knowing Alisae is Town. Why no argument there and just saying it is throwing shade?

How can it be taken that way? You haven't actually provided a case on how it could becuase I honestly don't see how it could be.

You said you were his partner trying to derail the wagon hehe
don't mind me just a joke.

Lol oh k Still kinda don't get it through.

What do you think about XnadrojX/karnos/liquity/ through?

I would like to hear more of your opinions through because you sheep a lot of noticed. Sheeping isn't bad as town since there are times town need to sheep. But it's always good to have some independent thought. It helps me in a variety of ways if all the players are actively posting with their own thoughts. Since I thrive in those scenarios.

The phrasing here seems quite stilted and unnatural. Not sure whether it's natural style, early game awkwardness, or scumminess.

Probably a little bit of natural style and something else(not scum or early game awkwardness.).

I was a little conscious of that post through I'm kinda amazed you picked up on that. I rewrote that one like 3-4 times before I was satisfied with it. Originally it was going to be "what did you think of my case on karnos?" Instead of the highlighted section.

But then it occurred to me that alisae is a player that will sheep their town reads.

I didn't want to contaminate alisae's answer with my own thoughts. I wanted to see what type of answer alisae would produce and if I could get anything information on his alignment out of it.

You said you were his partner trying to derail the wagon hehe
don't mind me just a joke.

Lol oh k Still kinda don't get it through.

What do you think about XnadrojX/karnos/liquity/ through? I would like to hear more of your opinions through because you sheep a lot of noticed. Sheeping isn't bad as town since there are times town need to sheep. But it's always good to have some independent thought. It helps me in a variety of ways if all the players are actively posting with their own thoughts. Since I thrive in those scenarios.

I'd rather have Alisae improve as a player than policy lynch him every game.

In these three posts we see you mentioning Alisae and how they are sheeping. You mention how as Town sheeping isn't necessarily a bad thing. You then go on to say that you think it would be better if Alisae improves as a player instead of PLing them every game based on their sheeping as Town. I really find it unlikely that you are somehow saying that Alisae sheeps as a playstyle and not just as Town.

What can be deduced is that A) You don't say a single thing about how she could do that as Scum. And B) Based on her Town play sheeping you infer she is Town.

She has not had a single completed game as Scum.

And when you say I'm not committing? Please, the game days are 3 weeks long and you are giving me shit about not committing to a read balls deep after like 72 hours.

Please spare me the bull shit. You literally tried to make me and alisae look bad and didn't follow up with a scum read or an investigation into it. That's amateur scum play.

Also what's your motivation as town to muddy up other players who are being town read??????

Sure it could be amature Scum play. It could also be good Town play in a style you are not used to. Look through this game to get a picture of how I play as Town sometimes: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=69627

[Garmr]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69420

I am confused why it's relevant to this game alisae. Maybe you can tell me how so I can understand?

[Alisae]

Garmr, LQ mentioned the game where he was scum and I was town earlier. Wanna look at it?

\

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69420

I am confused why it's relevant to this game alisae. Maybe you can tell me how so I can understand?

[karnos]

He isn't "just" being g aggresive. He's picking up on and pushing things that scum normally dont bother with.

He was under the spotlight, getting attacked for an incrediblyy reachy case. These are the people likely to get a wagon on then first. There was a slight legitimate reason for you to lynch him, but it looked way more likely that you saw a wagon on LQ since he was currently under attack but with no votes on them. Here's some sense for you to interpret.

Doesn't anyone else see the contrast here? In two consecutive posts xnadrojx implies scum wouldn't push on something reachy, and then follows up by saying I'm likely scum because I pushed something reachy.

Er, what?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Who are the people Jordan is referring too? It's hard to understand what you're saying. Just tell me a narrative and include the post number.

Like I don't know the context of the posts. So tell me Jordan said that "Player X" is townie for doing "action X" but I see a contradiction that Jordan says "Player Y" is scummy for doing "action Y"

If you could explain it to me in that form it would be very much appreciated because I'm having a hard time following what you want me to see.

[Garmr]

In these three posts we see you mentioning Alisae and how they are sheeping. You mention how as Town sheeping isn't necessarily a bad thing. You then go on to say that you think it would be better if Alisae improves as a player instead of PLing them every game based on their sheeping as Town. I really find it unlikely that you are somehow saying that Alisae sheeps as a playstyle and not just as Town.

What can be deduced is that A) You don't say a single thing about how she could do that as Scum. And B) Based on her Town play sheeping you infer she is Town.

She has not had a single completed game as Scum.

And when you say I'm not committing? Please, the game days are 3 weeks long and you are giving me shit about not committing to a read balls deep after like 72 hours.

Please spare me the bull shit. You literally tried to make me and alisae look bad and didn't follow up with a scum read or an investigation into it. That's amateur scum play.

Also what's your motivation as town to muddy up other players who are being town read??????

Sure it could be amature Scum play. It could also be good Town play in a style you are not used to. Look through this game to get a picture of how I play as Town sometimes: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=69627

Ok first up
You jumped to conclusion/made one up.

1. I don't like policy lynches in general and I don't feel alisae deserves to be policied. Also policy was the topic at the time.
2.If you know alisae sheeps as town and I'm talking about past games where alisae has sheeped. Then how does that infer I know what alisae is this game Also if I thought alisae was town from sheeping why would I ask him to show independent thought so I can get a better read?
3.I don't scum read alisae and I haven't found anything scummy about their slot so why would I say alisae could be scum in this scenario ect. I just wanted a clearer read and if you want to ask I'm town reading him now.
4.Never did I say sheeping or imply it = town.




Still through I'm not sure what to think of you anymore.

[Garmr]

Who are the people Jordan is referring too? It's hard to understand what you're saying. Just tell me a narrative and include the post number.

Like I don't know the context of the posts. So tell me Jordan said that "Player X" is townie for doing "action X" but I see a contradiction that Jordan says "Player Y" is scummy for doing "action Y"

If you could explain it to me in that form it would be very much appreciated because I'm having a hard time following what you want me to see.

xnadrojx
It's jordan spelled backwards.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I know who xnadrojx jordan is lmao I'm asking for the context in who Jordan was talking to or about in the quotes Karnos posted.

[LicketyQuickety]

I know who xnadrojx jordan is lmao I'm asking for the context in who Jordan was talking to or about in the quotes Karnos posted.

What's your read on me currently? I haven't see you mention a thing about me yet. Why?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I believe, if my memory is good, post 281 or 271 I said I liked your diction.

For now I am reserving judgement as per your request.

[Lexa]

Fine. I'll be patient and wait look a good child.

The condition for my posting reasoning for my vote on All Alone has now been fulfilled. That condition was All Alone posting so as to see possible reaction / lack thereof in response to my vote.

Prior to my joining this site and signing up for this game I spent some time reading through a couple of the longer games on this site to get a feel for how the game was approached here (sidenote: super helpful, scumhunting tactics I picked up made me so much better in the game I'm currently in on my main site). One of the games in particular featured both All Alone and Alisae, providing a reference point for meta reads. At the time of my vote, Alisae had several votes on him as a result of his posting style and I decided that adding additional pressure to him was less beneficial than putting pressure on All Alone in an attempt to create reactions to base reads on him from.

Based on that previous game that I had read (which I believe is still ongoing last time I looked ~a week ago), I am reasonably confident that Alisae is town. His actions this game are entirely consistent with his behaviour in the previous game and his scumhunting, while arguable how effectual it is, follow similar patterns. That being said, I'm not willing to consider them a lock town at this point in time as their posting style inherently creates a looooot of noise that can hide more legitimate tells on them.

All Alone having posted is now grounds for me to place a FoS on them. Their previous meta as I interpreted it had them being, while not necessarily a lot more active, considerably more proactive in their scumhunting tactics. Their post 285 shows them unvoting as their only post of content since RVS based on "not wanting their vote anywhere" right now. While I'm willing to give this a pass for players who are more actively using their vote and have shown some kind of previous commitment to reads, his lack of activity on that front means that his unvote here looks considerably more like a scum who doesn't want their vote to be tied to someone they can be held accountable to for their opinions should they unvote and wagon in the future.

Posts from AA/Alisae have been my focus since game start, I'll likely wall post later in the week after I come off low activity and have been able to take some time to reread the thread and consider posts at more than face value.

[Lexa]

Forgot to mention the other thing which was that based on that game I had a fairly strong picture of how Alisae played while my picture of All Alone was less definitive and I wanted to firm that up immediately

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'll likely wall post later in the week

Noooo.

Be concise or your points are drowned in your own words

[karnos]

Who are the people Jordan is referring too? It's hard to understand what you're saying. Just tell me a narrative and include the post number.

Like I don't know the context of the posts. So tell me Jordan said that "Player X" is townie for doing "action X" but I see a contradiction that Jordan says "Player Y" is scummy for doing "action Y"

If you could explain it to me in that form it would be very much appreciated because I'm having a hard time following what you want me to see.

The first was referring to Alisae.

The second is referring to LQ and my vote upon him.

I realize I am bias since he is voting me, so I am looking at his posts with a microscope, which is why I am asking if anyone else sees it. It seems to me that in the first post, he is saying Alisae is making a reachy case ("He's picking up on and pushing things that scum normally dont bother with."), and because of that Alisae is town. In the second case, he outright says the case on LQ is reachy with only a slight legitimate reason to push, but this time he thinks it proves I am scum.

I'm just a bit dumbfounded at his logic. It's hard to fight the case he has on me if he can use the same argument to prove one person is town and another is scum.

[karnos]

Just to be clear, I don't think Alisae is scum.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Oh my god I'm in love with Mastina and her Vote Count Godsend.

<<< <3 >>>

Karnos was the first to vote LQ, just check the spoiler for people who have been voted on.

Opportunistic voting is usually found in the butter zone of wagons which is in the middle, usually votes 3-5. To say the first vote on any player is opportunistic is seriously misusing the common terminology because it sounds nice.

[Lexa]

I'll likely wall post later in the week

Noooo.

Be concise or your points are drowned in your own words

Wall posts can be concise. There's just so much content and I intend to get as clear a picture on things as possible that even concise posts on the game (considering I haven't been actively posting to compensate) will require a considerable amount of writing in all likelihood.

[LicketyQuickety]

I believe, if my memory is good, post 281 or 271 I said I liked your diction.

For now I am reserving judgement as per your request.

Fair enough. I sometimes get reads on people based on the way they read me, but I did say to reserve judgement so I can't just back away from that. I knew/know some of the things I have done/said have been a bit questionable which is why I said to reserve judgement. It looks like I am going to have to get into my groove to get Town read this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'll likely wall post later in the week

Noooo.

Be concise or your points are drowned in your own words

Wall posts can be concise. There's just so much content and I intend to get as clear a picture on things as possible that even concise posts on the game (considering I haven't been actively posting to compensate) will require a considerable amount of writing in all likelihood.

Where do you play?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Lexa,
I prefer players to do real time interactions over wall catch up posts because real time is a lot harder to fake reads on players. So when you want to talk about something, make an opening statement, let someone talk to you and discuss it; like right now let's do it.

Who in the game is giving you the bad vibes?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@LQ, I will leave a comment that your play intrigues me but I do not yet no how I feel about it.

[Lexa]

I'll likely wall post later in the week

Noooo.

Be concise or your points are drowned in your own words

Wall posts can be concise. There's just so much content and I intend to get as clear a picture on things as possible that even concise posts on the game (considering I haven't been actively posting to compensate) will require a considerable amount of writing in all likelihood.

Where do you play?

My user name here is different from on that site because I don't want common associations between the two which is a roundabout way of saying I'd rather not say.

@Lexa,
I prefer players to do real time interactions over wall catch up posts because real time is a lot harder to fake reads on players. So when you want to talk about something, make an opening statement, let someone talk to you and discuss it; like right now let's do it.

Who in the game is giving you the bad vibes?

I generally agree, though I don't have much time, class in the morning. I've been mostly reading on mobile and looking for All Alone posts so specific players haven't jumped out at me too much yet (hence the majority of my motivation for taking time to read back through the thread).

Obviously All Alone isn't rubbing me the right way. You are actually giving me odd vibes, on the surface you seem extremely towny but I'm catching hints of asking a lot of questions and pushing activity without especially contributing new information yourself which is an effective strategy where I play.

karnos and jordan are the obvious picks given how they've been argued for but I'm less interested in them right now than I am in going back and looking at the content from the people who started pressuring them

[mastina]

Good news: computer back.
Bad news: have a kitten on me.
Makes work hard.