Large Normal 200 - Big Round Numbers - Game Over

[MortFeld]

Hi I'm replacing a player. I'm on mobile until way later tonight so not a whole lot out of me until then. I plan to read the game before I do too much but I'm a very fast reader. Got to around page 20 before I left, will post my thoughts when I get home.

Someone fill me in. How much time until deadline and who seems to be on the town's preferred kill list?

[MortFeld]

Dunn stop being lewd.
pedit: I hate the post above me.

I've hated nearly all of your posts I've read.

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Who did HS replace?

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Oh HS was in the game from the start? They didn't post at all in the first 20 pages.

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Ya I know they're in AUS.

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rb, who is town?

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Same question to Dani.

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Good shit Mort I like you so far.

Are you buddying, I mean pocketing, I mean buddying me?

[MortFeld]

That's why I asked how many days left. If it's less than 5 I am going to just skim ISOs until night phase.

[MortFeld]

Found the answer. 7 days we gucci.

Profit:

[MortFeld]

Pedit, not profit. No more mobile posting.

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Oh. I only read 11 pages, not 20.

[MortFeld]

good to know mort is conftown just like ircher was

severa that focus on the wagon numbers at this point is extremely suspect to me

you should be voting for who you think is most likely scum and encouraging others to do the same

this is fucking abysmal how does everybody townread this
VOTE: dreamer

Why, and why is that abysmal?

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My vote's on kyouko right? I'm fine with that until I get home. 355 doesn't sit right at all.

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It's the context. Right in the middle of an Ali quickwagon.

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I haven't finished reading. Not sure what Gin's alignment has to do with what I'm saying.

[MortFeld]

Early notes. Couple things: too tired/lazy to change formatting from excel. And stuff about Ircher is from before I knew what slot I was replacing into.

Ircher 66 Town
Alisae 125 Scum
Debi 86 Town

Agree with Ircher's 140. Wraith looks sketch

Wraith 119 Scum??
LUV 143 is very authoritative Town??
Alisae 148 ????? Wtf is this acquiescing, Scum??
Debi's hypothesizing was very obviously
newb, Alisae said Debi is newb, Alisae made
a good point that Ircher was putting the cart
before the horse on Debi, then all it took to
convince Alisae was Ircher's assertion that
Debi's numbers were somehow especially
egregious - to be scum motivated! No way.
Debi 154 Debi is towwwwwwnnn Town
Dunnstral 156, 159 Town??
Alisae 166 and 167 is… not sure if scum, but
lol

Alisae 206 townreads Gin during a period Town
where a Gin lynch was looking possible

LUV 212 felt like town LUV. Overall he's Town
taken a like, wise overseer role which is
something he did as town when he and I
played last

LUV 221 90% sure LUV is town Town
rb 249 flashwagon on now conftown Scum??

Pine 254 Town

[MortFeld]

Still don't know what to think about Creature. More similarly detailed notes to come tomorrow.

[MortFeld]

I wasn't on that wagon, and we already flipped Grey (replaced by texcat, NKed N1, flipped red mafia) who was one of the 2 who quickwagoned Alisae immediately after my post. There's more context there than you're showing, despite having already read that I was not voting Alisae.

What does this have to do with Gin's alignment?

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Got a bit over an hour to read some more. Goal is to get to page 22.

Knowing Gin is town affects the meaning of 355, I don't see how this is difficult to understand

Is this because Gin was the counterwagon to Alisae?

I think you saw an opportunity to throw an anti-Alisae sentiment into the mix when an Alisae lynch was starting to form. Coincidence or not, 2 Alisae votes directly followed 355. One from confscum as you pointed out - not sure why that matters. And not sure why Gin's being a possible counterwagon matters either. I am townreading Alisae, so why should I care that you discredited a townread over now conftown?

As for the validity of 355 itself, Gin's reasons were that Alisae was not coontributing. Especially for someone without much experience, and whose lynch looks to be quickly forming, I don't see getting snippy there as unreasonable. You're a townie and trying to find scum (even if you're bad at it) and somebody says your contributions are garbage - easy to take that personally and it's NAI. You pointing it out after it had already been pointed out with the vague addition of "Not a good look" is not a good look.

i'm so fucking glad mort is here aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

i'm so fucking glad mort is here aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Yes!

<3

[MortFeld]

I haven't finished reading (obviously). Are we confirmed multiball?

[MortFeld]

Thanks. Fast reader slow person.

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Was Pine replaced by Severa?

What are people's thoughts on All Alone? I think they are scum.

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Was Pine replaced by Severa?

What are people's thoughts on All Alone? I think they are scum.

yes severa replaced pine. I didn't even know all alone was still in this game tbh

Severa/Pine is town.

ISO All Alone.

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I still want to talk to rb and Debi, pls help me guys (especially Debi bc I don't trust rb)

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debi is no longer with us pretty sure there was a replace?

Oh, no just 3 prods from what I can tell. Probably should be replaced which is a shame.

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look at those who tried to push her lynch after she came in towning it up

Ircher/Mort and Wraith voted Debi. Expand on this please.

Ircher barely even pushed Debi lynch. He very quickly switched to Wraith. Reminder to Mort to look at people who scumread Ircher for pushing a Debi lynch.

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How did Wraith slip multiball, HS?

510

[MortFeld]

Ech ninjad.

[MortFeld]

overall these pages were a chore. I like replacing in usually but it's hard to contextualize and compartmentalize. Lots of players and at least a few unhelpful townies.

ugh page 11 is an entire page of nothing. No
wonder we have a gross gamestate now.
rb 279 confusing. Are you scumreading them
or are you voting bad players ala 260?
Grey 296 idk not going to jump into WIFOM
here
14 is TvT with one-liners from Grey. This is
annoying to read. Nothing AI in here.
Kyouko 355 Scum??
Echo 365 Town??
Kyouko 368 oh wow now you vote Alisae. So Scum
what you said about you not being on the Ali
wagon at the time of 355 is only valid for
13 posts.
Alisae 373 looks genuine. Town??
Dunn 428 Town??
Gin 438 and 442 eh, that's just how rb plays.
Roulette imo but NAI
Grey 440 I don't see this post coming from a Alisae town
scum buddy. Alisae is a townread for sure.
Grey 448 solidifying my Debi TR
Pine 455 Town
Wraith 468 Town??
Creature 493 Town??
Creature 499 don't get this one. These are
people Creature will not vote? edit: ya
HS 510 agree with the idea that Wraith might Town??
have scumslipped. Agree with Debi read.
Townreads me. Disagree with Ali read. Agree
with Dunnstral read. Don't see why Echo is
particularly scummy. Don't see why Creature
is scum.
HS 529 what about my personality makes
you think I'm town? This one is just so I
can understand my own play better.
I don't really understand HS vs Creature. I
have never done meta reads so I don’t see
how what is or isn't valid in a meta read is AI.
HS' read looks real to me.
rb 552 I have PTSD
I don't feel like reading the rest of Creature
vs HS.
Ircher 564 same.
I agree with nearly everything Ircher is saying
which is good.
HS 597 don't see why.
Zach 604 Town

[MortFeld]

Stronger townreads right now are Alisae, Pine/Severa, Debi slot, LUV, and Zach, in no particular order.

Scumreads are Wraith, All Alone, Kyouko, and a weaker one on rb.

[MortFeld]

I want Kyouko to convince me they're town.

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What in particular makes u TR me? In your catch ups only one of my posts is mentioned.

That post. I liked it, and you also TR Ali when it's the hip and cool thing to scumread her.

[MortFeld]

Btw, anyone still thinks Ircherslot is scum?

Me

Why?

[MortFeld]

Mod announcement

Rb is the

town innocent child

.

That is all.

TY.

[MortFeld]

If you think my read is bad you should tell me why. I'm basically a newbie (3 completed games).

[MortFeld]

Knowing rb is town weakens the read. Looking forward to seeing what people do around then.

[MortFeld]

conftown rb is really good

ISOing him when I get home.

[MortFeld]

He works well in a townbloc

[MortFeld]

Because he's not here

[MortFeld]

imo those pushing wraith know he has a better-than-average towngame and is a danger late-game as town and are trying to remove him from the game

I could be wrong, but, that is what I see when I see certain people pushing him as scum, when I see absolutely nothing scummy in him

Do you see this with Severa specifically?

It's really hard getting a feel for this game.

[MortFeld]

I also keep forgetting it's multiball. Ali could still be scum. Gotta refocus.

Pedit: Which players?

[MortFeld]

Ok I'll focus on Wraith when I get back.

Why are people who aren't you scumreading Dunnstral? (echo, debi)

[MortFeld]

Ok I'll figure it out.

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I don't really care re: what D7 said. He's right, without knowledge of conftown rb and multiball my catch-ups are worthless

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Kyouko, why are you saying you were about to find a different wagon? You voted Ali 13 posts later

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I understand what Servera is saying. Has anyone refuted its validity beyond saying it doesn't make sense?

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All Alone's coasting is bothering me a lot. People have been scumreading them. What made people stop?

Kyouko I saw what you said. I am new and not sure how to play this particular game.

Give me another hint.

Oh, UNVOTE: Kyouko

VOTE: All Alone

[MortFeld]

Quote those please Ali

[MortFeld]

Oh that's pretty much verbatim.

What changed your mind, Creature?

[MortFeld]

I plan to read when I get home but why is Creature confscum?

[MortFeld]

Actually MortFeld might not be scum in which case either team could be either but MortFeld looking for someone to give him an in on the creature wagon is scummy as fuck.

That's not what I was doing. I'm trying to understand a specific thing Titus said, lacking knowledge I would have had from reading

[MortFeld]

I am stymied as to why All Alone is still not part of discussion

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Is it just because there are too many wagons for us to consolidate if we discuss All Alone?

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I ISOd AA. I'll check it again when I have time. I saw someone hiding until people noticed and then doing nothing but covering themselves

[MortFeld]

Also I'd like to point out that Echovision keeps trying to discredit me and my Wraith push. I'm assuming that was the purpose of the 'trying to get into Titus's pants' comment.
He goes tomorrow.

forgot to mention it's cause your Wraith push is shit. give reasons behind it at least instead of repeatedly calling him scummy...

Wait. Servera has given a reason. Do you not understand it or do you deny it happened?

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Answer the other one. I want to know you understand the case and disagree with it rather than just saying there's no case.

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gonna look at Wraith now, I've haven't really paid a whole lot of attention to him this game tbh

I ISOd AA. I'll check it again when I have time. I saw someone hiding until people noticed and then doing nothing but covering themselves

I don't agree that I've hidden. I honestly didn't have a whole lot of reasoning on my first few votes, so just casting naked votes was really the most transparent thing I could do. I also don't think it's fair to say that I did nothing but cover myself, when I led the D1 lynch.

If you did this that's a failing in my reading.

[MortFeld]

I want to hear his reasons for AA, cause AA has been p town.

Mine or Ali's? I just got home, about to ISO AA again.

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Huh isn't Severa the Pine slot

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Oh he's posting on an alt.

annoying

[MortFeld]

Yeah AA is prob town.

[MortFeld]

No she isn't ;~;

Because of one post?

You have a MS version of ADHD

[MortFeld]

Yeah AA is prob town.

i think you still have your vote on them though? you may have unvoted but i don't remember it.

You're right.

UNVOTE: AA

[MortFeld]

rb is here cool

rb who is town

[MortFeld]

Guess I need to do a ton of legwork. Which will be hard with my schedule but I can do it, especially given tomorrow's night phase.

Let's go.

Next thing to read is Ircher vs D7.

[MortFeld]

Ok I'll focus on Wraith when I get back.

Why are people who aren't you scumreading Dunnstral? (echo, debi)

You never got around to this by the wya.

I know. Trust I've not been able to sit and read for more than like, 30 minutes today.

[MortFeld]

er, after this morning.

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In fact it feels like Mort has looked into EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE WAGON for today BESIDES the biggest and best wagon Wraith.

I have no particular reservations against lynching Wraith besides the fact that I have an incomplete picture of the game.

But ye I'm not bothered by your pointing this out. Not fulfilling my promises is bad.

[MortFeld]

All alone is town. I don't remember who was scumreading him, but I don't think they're correct.

Me and Ali but I changed my mind.

[MortFeld]

All alone is town. I don't remember who was scumreading him, but I don't think they're correct.

Me and Ali but I changed my mind.

That's one hellva 180 mister.

No it's not. Pretty reasonable. Are you asking why I changed my mind

[MortFeld]

@hs name is Keaton favorite color is the color of a grilled tortilla

[MortFeld]

All alone is town. I don't remember who was scumreading him, but I don't think they're correct.

Me and Ali but I changed my mind.

That's one hellva 180 mister.

No it's not. Pretty reasonable. Are you asking why I changed my mind

Ye let me into the mind of MortFeld

I basically skimmed right up to where they started actually participating and it looked a lot like they were just tossing in votes so their name was in the VC. Their participation wasn't just covering though. I can see scum leading that lynch for sure in multiball but they definitely participated in a constructive way. Curious why you think they're scum

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Wraith

30 so no RVS vote to start. I never like when people decline to RVS in their first post but it's prob NAI
119 when I read Debi it was CLEAR to me that she was newb and pulled a ratio out of nowhere. It's one of the
reasons I strongly townread the slot. Scum doesn't come up with an absurd hypothetical ratio and spend
paragraphs analyzing the math around it when scum knows how many people are on their team. Wraith
assumed two things:
1. that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge and because of this
2. that the setup was multiball
That the setup is actually multiball could be confbias but I do agree with Severa here. Why would town ever
think that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge? 9/19 is absurd and everyone including Wraith pointed this out.
Yet Wraith, rather than doing what (?) Creature (? Don't remember who this was might have been Pine) did
and repeat "Adapt" 30 times, took Debi at face value. This belies a paranoia that I don't think is town.
Arguments against this are essentially "But Wraith has done towny things" and "This is reachy" so I'm
keeping these in mind as I read.
121 Wraith continues to maintain that Debi has foreknowledge. It is not a possibility in Wraith's mind that Debi
is newb and has no idea what she is talking about.
126 more of Wraith's not allowing that Debi is newb.
130 Wraith allows that Debi might be newb.
144 Ircher says 'yo dude you're assumin a lot and it ain't helpful' Wraith says 'nah it is helpful bro'
488 starts off towny. Alisae's vote was awful. But I can see scum!Wraith making that post assuming Alisae is
not on his scumteam. Especially without even a vote, just like 'yo look at this scummery!' He then goes on to say
he doesn't like rb's entrance but doesn't say why (for the record, I've seen town rb enter other games in a very
similar way) and he townleans Echo and Grey. Echo+Wraith is Severa's proposed scumteam and Grey is
confscum, so /shrug idk imma keep reading.
621 is grosss accusing now conftown rb of a scumslip and then spending two paragraphs speculating about
multiball. I get that multiball/no multiball is part of the basis for his rb vote, but that honestly makes it worse
for me. Maybe I am bad but as town I wasn't even thinking about multiball before it was confirmed.
622 does Grey make this vote if he and Wraith are a scumteam? Probably not, imo
676 Wraith has already said he thinks Alisae is lynchbait (621) and that he shouldn't lynch lynchbait that day,
but now he's 180ing and focusing on Ali's Pine townread - which is a bad townread yes but stuff like that is exactly
why Ali is considered lynchbait. He also recalls her Wraith vote which I get, it's a bad vote. But it feels like he
tosses it in with other pieces of 'evidence' as part of an Ali case, given that nobody latched onto it originally. He's
also explicitly fence sitting between rb and Ali wagons.
681 apologizes for Debi vote… NAI. I've seen both town and scum do this. Reading the rest of 681 it honestly looks
really town. I agree with a lot of what he says and it's really measured, objective, and gamesolvy. His reads are
confusing though for their lack of Dunn and LUV who had both been fairly active.
777 so this is a D7 flashwagon? Hm. Sitting out is NAI I think but I don't like using unmentionable player trends as
justification for a read. Not sure if it's actually anti-town.
1092 ugghhhh these walls I hate walls (knowing full well I am creating some - I would never ever do this
if I didn't replace in after 150 pages). Don't like some of his reads. HS' 1007 is not that bad. Townreads Grey
(though I do highly doubt they're on a scumteam). Don't get the Alisae read, gotta actually read 1097. In general
the reads are based on how much sense players make - not sure if that shows scum/town intent.
1097 ok I guess this could be town. I don't think it's too arguable than an Alisae lynch would be pro-town in
some respects.
Dude I can't deal with Wraith's playstyle. He doesn't even link posts.
2314 why is he scumreading Gin now? 1758 (ok, I can see this) and the vig claim. Given that Gin was actually
fakeclaiming I guess I can see this. But you've been saying Gin is the voice of reason all game and now a post from
AA and Gin's claim that you don't believe transform him from TOP TOWNREAD to SCUMREAD… a little fishy
Hmm. Wraith insists on a Gin lynch a lot. Could be that he believes the claim and wants to push the Vig lynch
through.
Disclaimer, I am skimming. Eyes are getting tired.
Census. What was the percentage of people who believed Gin vs people who didn't? Clearly he was lynched so.
Dunnstral's 2753 is pinging me.
2980 grossssssss why is Alisae town now?? This renews the idea of Wraith+Greyslot scumteam. 2980 honestly
looks like the reads you'd get if you knew it wasn't multiball.
Taking a break bc sleep.

TL;DR Wraith might be town. But I don't like 119 at all and there are enough weird poorly justified switches in opinion to give me pause. Could be explained by Wraith's constant missing a lot and catching up, or that could be a built-in excuse for having reads on the periphery.

[MortFeld]

The way Wraith waffled on Alisae (fence sitting between her and rb), then tunneled Alisae, and then suddenly after the Greyslot flip townread Alisae, also doesn't sit right.

[MortFeld]

Townread Alisae for a reason that doesn't make a whole lot of sense in multiball.

Sorry for spamposting, I'm tired and forget things. Also sorry for misgendering Alisae.

[MortFeld]

I don't like the lack of reasoning from the others on the Wraith wagon

What do you make of what I said re: Wraith?

ik I posted directly before you.

[MortFeld]

If you lynch me today you are consenting to spend your next 2 lynches powerlynching Wraith and EchoVision.

As a lawyer I void this contract

[MortFeld]

Bleh I was shitposting, just thought your implying that future lynches should be bindingly conditional on today's lynch was funny.

If you read my recent posts you'll see I'm open to Wraith lynch anyway.

[MortFeld]

Then vote him. There's a lot of people trying really hard to create a counterwagon here and being 'open' to it isn't good enough.

4 days left first of all, and I'm not caught up yet.

Sorry you're impatient but I'm catching up at the pace I can.

For the record: Slick is the proposed counterwagon, right?

[MortFeld]

I guess Kyouko is pushing Severa now.

[MortFeld]

If you lynch me today you are consenting to spend your next 2 lynches powerlynching Wraith and EchoVision.

LINING
UP
LYNCHES!

What does this mean?

This is what I meant when I said I hated your posting. You're not saying what you think of it, you're just lobbing a phrase at something. Like are you being sarcastic? Do you think Severa is scummy for it?

[MortFeld]

Yes I think they are being scummy for lining up lynches.

Bad

[MortFeld]

Sure.
I SR them too tho so it's ok.

how does that make sense

you just saw something that resembled lining up lynches and went OOH THAT'S A WIKI SCUMTELL and now believe that someone you townread is simultaneously scummy for it despite agreeing with their lynch targets

not like I'm paying attention to much you say. I fucking hope you're town though.

[MortFeld]

Wait it's on the Wiki?
I didn't even look at the Wiki...
Isn't the wiki outdated as fuck?

probably? I just know that it's not something that applies in this situation, and the fact that you agree with the lynch targets means you know it doesn't apply.

[MortFeld]

Remember how we agreed to lynch wraith if the game was multiball

I don't like the lack of reasoning from the others on the Wraith wagon

What do you make of what I said re: Wraith?

ik I posted directly before you.

If Wraith was intentionally fencesitting between Alisae and rb wagons it means he either had a problem with both or was waiting to see which would take off faster so he could join that one. If he was willing to join an Alisae wagon at that early stage of the game I doubt Wraith+Alisae can be on the same scumteam. Tex/Grey and Wraith were the ones pushing Alisae in the later stages of D1 after his early wagon died off, and Alisae was a fairly adamant about his Tex/Grey scumread to the point that blue team was convinced enough by it to shoot Texcat. Alisae could be blue that caught opposing scum, but then Wraith would be red, if Wraith were not town. If Wraith were red, why would he 180 on the slot that got his partner shot?

This is confusing. Wraith + Ali was never a scumteam I considered.

[MortFeld]

Spoiler: Mort Wraith notes

Wraith

30 so no RVS vote to start. I never like when people decline to RVS in their first post but it's prob NAI
119 when I read Debi it was CLEAR to me that she was newb and pulled a ratio out of nowhere. It's one of the
reasons I strongly townread the slot. Scum doesn't come up with an absurd hypothetical ratio and spend
paragraphs analyzing the math around it when scum knows how many people are on their team. Wraith
assumed two things:
1. that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge and because of this
2. that the setup was multiball
That the setup is actually multiball could be confbias but I do agree with Severa here. Why would town ever
think that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge? 9/19 is absurd and everyone including Wraith pointed this out.
Yet Wraith, rather than doing what (?) Creature (? Don't remember who this was might have been Pine) did
and repeat "Adapt" 30 times, took Debi at face value. This belies a paranoia that I don't think is town.
Arguments against this are essentially "But Wraith has done towny things" and "This is reachy" so I'm
keeping these in mind as I read.
121 Wraith continues to maintain that Debi has foreknowledge. It is not a possibility in Wraith's mind that Debi
is newb and has no idea what she is talking about.
126 more of Wraith's not allowing that Debi is newb.
130 Wraith allows that Debi might be newb.
144 Ircher says 'yo dude you're assumin a lot and it ain't helpful' Wraith says 'nah it is helpful bro'
488 starts off towny. Alisae's vote was awful. But I can see scum!Wraith making that post assuming Alisae is
not on his scumteam. Especially without even a vote, just like 'yo look at this scummery!' He then goes on to say
he doesn't like rb's entrance but doesn't say why (for the record, I've seen town rb enter other games in a very
similar way) and he townleans Echo and Grey. Echo+Wraith is Severa's proposed scumteam and Grey is
confscum, so /shrug idk imma keep reading.
621 is grosss accusing now conftown rb of a scumslip and then spending two paragraphs speculating about
multiball. I get that multiball/no multiball is part of the basis for his rb vote, but that honestly makes it worse
for me. Maybe I am bad but as town I wasn't even thinking about multiball before it was confirmed.
622 does Grey make this vote if he and Wraith are a scumteam? Probably not, imo
676 Wraith has already said he thinks Alisae is lynchbait (621) and that he shouldn't lynch lynchbait that day,
but now he's 180ing and focusing on Ali's Pine townread - which is a bad townread yes but stuff like that is exactly
why Ali is considered lynchbait. He also recalls her Wraith vote which I get, it's a bad vote. But it feels like he
tosses it in with other pieces of 'evidence' as part of an Ali case, given that nobody latched onto it originally. He's
also explicitly fence sitting between rb and Ali wagons.
681 apologizes for Debi vote… NAI. I've seen both town and scum do this. Reading the rest of 681 it honestly looks
really town. I agree with a lot of what he says and it's really measured, objective, and gamesolvy. His reads are
confusing though for their lack of Dunn and LUV who had both been fairly active.
777 so this is a D7 flashwagon? Hm. Sitting out is NAI I think but I don't like using unmentionable player trends as
justification for a read. Not sure if it's actually anti-town.
1092 ugghhhh these walls I hate walls (knowing full well I am creating some - I would never ever do this
if I didn't replace in after 150 pages). Don't like some of his reads. HS' 1007 is not that bad. Townreads Grey
(though I do highly doubt they're on a scumteam). Don't get the Alisae read, gotta actually read 1097. In general
the reads are based on how much sense players make - not sure if that shows scum/town intent.
1097 ok I guess this could be town. I don't think it's too arguable than an Alisae lynch would be pro-town in
some respects.
Dude I can't deal with Wraith's playstyle. He doesn't even link posts.
2314 why is he scumreading Gin now? 1758 (ok, I can see this) and the vig claim. Given that Gin was actually
fakeclaiming I guess I can see this. But you've been saying Gin is the voice of reason all game and now a post from
AA and Gin's claim that you don't believe transform him from TOP TOWNREAD to SCUMREAD… a little fishy
Hmm. Wraith insists on a Gin lynch a lot. Could be that he believes the claim and wants to push the Vig lynch
through.
Disclaimer, I am skimming. Eyes are getting tired.
Census. What was the percentage of people who believed Gin vs people who didn't? Clearly he was lynched so.
Dunnstral's 2753 is pinging me.
2980 grossssssss why is Alisae town now?? This renews the idea of Wraith+Greyslot scumteam. 2980 honestly
looks like the reads you'd get if you knew it wasn't multiball.
Taking a break bc sleep.

TL;DR Wraith might be town. But I don't like 119 at all and there are enough weird poorly justified switches in opinion to give me pause. Could be explained by Wraith's constant missing a lot and catching up, or that could be a built-in excuse for having reads on the periphery.

SEVERA TAKE FUCKING NOTES THIS IS HOW YOU MAKE A CASE

I don't like this at all. As annoying as Ali's tone is, she's right. Echo has been taking a stance on Wraith: Wraith is not scummy and nobody has made a case (until Mort). But Severa has made a case; in fact, a large portion of my case comes from Severa. So Echo either
1. doesn't understand the case
2. doesn't think it legitimately shows scum intent or
3. understands it but doesn't think it overrides whatever towny things Wraith has done.

In each case there's a burden on Echo that he hasn't fulfilled. In 1. he should work to understand Severa's case instead of yelling over and over that there is no case. In 2. he should explain why, but since 2. implies ~1. I don't think 2. is the case. In 3. he should explain why Wraith is town (what Ali said).

I don't agree with telling players how they should play but completely disregarding the reasons a wagon has formed is not pro-town.

[MortFeld]

If you lynch me today you are consenting to spend your next 2 lynches powerlynching Wraith and EchoVision.

As a lawyer I void this contract

Objection, don't pull this stunt with a real lawyer. You'll quickly enter policy lynch territory.

You caught me

[MortFeld]

Isn't being hyper defensive bad when you're the main focus?

To an extent but you're completely missing the point. If Wraith is town he needs to put effort into not letting a townie ( himself) be lynched.

I want to literally stop responding to your posts. Also you're scumreading Wraith so if he's scummy for defending himself but no defense leaves your vote on him, there's no situation where you don't vote Wraith. Stuff like this makes me think you could actually be scum because these little jabs you do are not game solving

[MortFeld]

Echo I saw your post. Read the second paragraph of my case if you can't understand what Servera is saying

[MortFeld]

I also haven't forgotten your weird reaction to me right when I replaced in.

[MortFeld]

I believe the claim

Wraith I thought my scumreading you was evident. I just pause since I don't know if a scummer would put so much analytical effort into the catch up walls.

Rebbe explain kyouko vote please. If your claim is true I also scumread Kyouko but I'm not sure why you do.

[MortFeld]

I believe the claim

Wraith I thought my scumreading you was evident. I just pause since I don't know if a scummer would put so much analytical effort into the catch up walls.

Rebbe explain kyouko vote please. If your claim is true I also scumread Kyouko but I'm not sure why you do.

you believe that neither mafia faction got a kill last night??

I townread debislot and don't see why scum who is not under pressure would fakeclaim vig knowing there was only 1 nightkill.

[MortFeld]

Echo any Vig claim makes you uneasy. This game is evidence of that.

It doesn't make you uneasy?

Also there have been 2 vig claims and one has already proven to be a fakeclaim so uneasiness is reasonable imo

[MortFeld]

You saying that worries me. You should have little idea what happened at night. Even if you're a protective PR that would explain only 1 scum nightkill and any number of things could explain the other one.

[MortFeld]

Dunn returned a guilty on someone, who was it again?

[MortFeld]

Or was that a reaction test

Sorry I'm on mobile for today with little time

[MortFeld]

Echo explain to me the perfect, believable vig claim.

Start with them actually being vig

[MortFeld]

Was it a legit claim?

[MortFeld]

If so then why is Dunn voting D7

This game is dumb

[MortFeld]

Sorry last VC I could find you were. Who are you voting?

[MortFeld]

And did you actually return a guilty on EV

[MortFeld]

I'm going to ignore you until tomorrow.

[MortFeld]

Reminds me of 1848 @hs @luv

I want to work out Rebbe Kyouko stuff before anything else.

[MortFeld]

Oh and @rb

[MortFeld]

You saying that worries me. You should have little idea what happened at night. Even if you're a protective PR that would explain only 1 scum nightkill and any number of things could explain the other one.

I don't have any idea what happened at night. That's why it worries me that there was only one kill that was a supposed vig kill. We've already established that there is two separate mafia factions. At night, what do mafia factions do? They kill people. If this vig got the only kill, what happened with the TWO mafia kills that night? One being blocked is believable. A lucky roleblock, or a lucky doc I get it. But that happening twice?? I just don't think it's likely...

Statistically, probably not. Why do you think Rebbe claimed?

[MortFeld]

If Rebbe is scum, I mean.

[MortFeld]

Slick's ISO is 19 posts long.
AA's ISO is 32 posts long.

Your point?

[MortFeld]

Slick's ISO is 19 posts long.
AA's ISO is 32 posts long.

Your point?

They're lurking hard.

Or they're not invested.

Why do you think activity alone is indicative of alignment?

[MortFeld]

I don't see town motivation behind lurking as hard as they are currently and the aren't really trying to progress the gamestate currently.

Dude, how do you know they're lurking instead of just not looking at the thread

[MortFeld]

I don't see town motivation behind lurking as hard as they are currently and the aren't really trying to progress the gamestate currently.

Dude, how do you know they're lurking instead of just not looking at the thread

or they're not interested in trying particularly hard in this game given the gamestate. post count alone barely means anything

If you want to look at post counts, look at yours. You have literally twice as many posts as the next most talkative person yet you've added barely anything of value.

[MortFeld]

General question directed mostly at Titus but any experienced players: If there's a (1-shot) BP in this setup is it town or scum?

For the record, I've been thinking about this one a lot. @kyouko why did you ask this?

[MortFeld]

alisae knows all of this...they're just a scumbag

Was there ever a push for an Alisae PL?

[MortFeld]

I'm not being brought to late game if that makes you happy.
And there has. You wanna start it back up again?

No.

[MortFeld]

Gin actually attempted to start it because they didn't trust I could make the best decision at a Lylo/Mylo situation based off of a game that was ongoing at the time (and now is finished), and they found themselves wrong so they stopped it. It never gained momentium.

I guarantee you if a PL wagon started on you it would not be because of your strength or lack thereof in the lategame.

[MortFeld]

Wait a minute...Mort, why haven't you ignored my slot yet?
You seem like the kind of person that would if you're ignoring Dunn's slot currently.

I see absolutely no value to be gained in trying to sort Dunn right now. Either he's cop or he's a cop fakeclaim. Either way he's not going to help me figure out which (with good reason) and he's not really participating in main discussions either.

These traits don't apply to you.

[MortFeld]

Nobody really pointed it out. I know I didn't because I wanted to see if anyone would react.

[MortFeld]

Slick's ISO is 19 posts long.
AA's ISO is 32 posts long.

Your point?

They're lurking hard.

Or they're not invested.

Why do you think activity alone is indicative of alignment?

If you're right about the non investment, could they have forgotten about the night phase and forgotten to put in their night kills?? That would explain a lot tbh...

Is it possible for multiple scum on the same team to have nightkill powers?

[MortFeld]

alisae knows all of this...they're just a scumbag

Was there ever a push for an Alisae PL?

there was an attempt, i'm pretty sure texcat was on it which is one of my reasons for alisae town lean

This just means red!Alisae isn't likely. blue!Alisae remains possible.

[MortFeld]

I replaced Ircher.

[MortFeld]

4543 is a bad post

[MortFeld]

so is 4552

[MortFeld]

Give me a 2 sentence conclusion from the points made in 4543

[MortFeld]

I don't remember tex pushing for a PL on me.
I remember Gin pushing a PL on me.
Also Severa has Pine's slot currently.

This is the reason I made 4543 or whatever it was. He didn't remember texcat pushing a lynch on him, so I went and showed it. It was to back up what I had said earlier about Alisae probably not being scum. I went through the ISO and found more that I thought should be noted so I noted it. More than two sentences, oh fucking well

ok. it's not a big deal because I don't think it's scummy, just some lazy thinking.

[MortFeld]

MortField, hopefully you aren't thinking of lynching someone that looks associated with texcat.

No. Honestly I haven't looked much at Greyslot.

[MortFeld]

Echo why do you want to lynch Dunn.

[MortFeld]

Can you quote the BP crumb?

[MortFeld]

Waiting on VC to vote but it's probably Wraith.

[MortFeld]

Kyouko is cool by me atm

[MortFeld]

):

that does not bode well for my read on you, mortman!

I scumread Wraith before Severa's claim.

Why should I not believe Severa's claim? If Wraith has no gun we lynch Severa

[MortFeld]

If you mean Kyouko comment, I haven't done a full reading but I was suspicious of Kyouko for bp stuff and I no longer am.

[MortFeld]

Echo why do you want to lynch Dunn.

[MortFeld]

HEY FAKED THE RESULT ON HIM, MORRT

Is this supposed to be self-explanatory

[MortFeld]

TY.

[MortFeld]

Are there any holes in the 'lynch Wraith today lynch Severa tomorrow if Wraith has no gun' strategy? Other than the 'Wraith is town gunman' hole which I'm not too worried about since scum!Severa wouldn't know Wraith has a gun.

Are there any scumcop roles?

[MortFeld]

HEY FAKED THE RESULT ON HIM, MORRT

Is this supposed to be self-explanatory

Dunn faked a cop claim, which he claimed by saying that he got a guilty for me. As the person who recieved the role pm with my non mafia role, I know that this is complete bullshit and its just like Wraith. why would you claim something you're not...

This is what I thought your sole reason was and it's lazy. If someone looks town and they fakeclaim, lynching them on principle is not good play.

[MortFeld]

yeh they could be scums together fosho

yeah the hole in that strategy is that wraith is a strong town player down the line and we need him for later in the game and he is not NEARLY FUCKING SCUMMY AT ALL to be a lynch consideration today and the push on him is BOGUS, scum just want him dead because they fear his analytical threat

I don't consider a trade of town!Wraith lynch today for guaranteed scum!Severa lynch tomorrow a bad trade, but maybe I don't know Wraith well enough.

[MortFeld]

This is what I thought your sole reason was and it's lazy. If someone looks town and they fakeclaim, lynching them on principle is not good play.

yes it is for so many reasons I don't want to get into here now

Fair enough and as I said this is my fourth game on site so I am still learning.

[MortFeld]

Reading Dunn makes me think that it's site meta to play like shit to not get scumread.

[MortFeld]

I am going to sleep. Goodnight lot

[MortFeld]

Low hanging fruit scum is Echo. Everyone in this game realizes that the slot is scum or will as soon as Wraith flips and their associatives are dragged into the open.

You are dangerous scum who may end up endgaming or you are town who has helped scum winconditions the entire game. IE, a perfect vig shot.

wtf is low hanging fruit scum

The post you quoted explains what that means.

[MortFeld]

Not caught up on recent events but I am suspicious of people voting Creature.

[MortFeld]

Servera is voting to lynch claimed Cop. I get they're sure Wraith is scum (apparently) but that doesn't seem right.

I disagree with Wraith that Kyouko was PR fishing. There was pretty clearly a breadcrumb and I see the theory question there as NAI. Wraith can you talk more about this? Like why town wouldn't ask about alignment of BP

[MortFeld]

@Creature: Let's coordinate tonight. Who are you vigging?

Heres how I think is the best way to do this.
Each vig gives 3 or 4 names.
Hell, you can include a name that you don't want to vig for the lolz and reactions.
And if you are NK'D, that's a reaction.
If you are roleblocked if one exists, that's a reaction.
Limiting yourself to one definite kill allows Scum to have too much control over who you NK.

?????

Jfc

[MortFeld]

I wish I knew more about setup balance so I could trust you.

@Wraith yeah I was thinking kyouko was either vig or scum. And they're obviously not vig. But it might have been solely to help with their ircherslot read

[MortFeld]

I AM BEING UNPLEASANT AND SPITEFUL. DO YOU KNOW WHY I AM BEING UNPLEASANT AND SPITEFUL? WRAITH IS STILL ALIVE.

Scum or town I feel bad for Wraith

[MortFeld]

Rebbe already claimed full vig

[MortFeld]

Gross.

Btw echo it's clear you're not reading so idk why you're being sarcastic about that

[MortFeld]

Servera is not VT try again HS. There is no way

[MortFeld]

VOTE: Wraith

I'll take care of either echo or ssbm tonight.

okay shoot me pls get a green flip

LAMIST

[MortFeld]

Mort, Severa can't be anything but VT. I just don't see it.

What

This is like, a reach in itself

Explain

[MortFeld]

I'm with Titus on echo lynch.

[MortFeld]

Can you point out pine soft again for those of us who work 40 hours a week and play almost exclusively on mobile

[MortFeld]

OH>

fai R C op

LOL

[MortFeld]

Gross.

Btw echo it's clear you're not reading so idk why you're being sarcastic about that

just fucking read through... when i read i go from where i last left off to current state so i don't read all the fuck over

I was specifically referring to you posting about Rebbe being odd night

[MortFeld]

Severa was destined to replace pine from the beginning

Pedit: and that's why I said you're not reading. Or at least posting before you read.

[MortFeld]

Ohhhh RC is role cop. Me dumb

I'm ignoring you. You made a comment irrelevant to the gamestate because you hadn't read. That annoys me.

[MortFeld]

There's your soft and it comes from Pine, not me.
So at the very worst case scenario you're conjecturing that I'm scum role cop. and I am perfectly fine with that conjecture because Wraith is still scum and I will be flipped soon enough.
I will probably verify the vigilante claims overnight because I don't suppose there's that many more useful checks to pull off. Probably creature.

Dunn please

[MortFeld]

I'm ignoring you.

[MortFeld]

I'm going to bed, it's 7:20 AM. I'm cobbled up with thoughts right now, I'll take a clean look at the game and rethink the Severa/Wraith situation.
I've been flip-flopping on Wraith all game, just having the slot gone sounds good for peace of mind lmao.

I don't remember where my vote is, but I'm gonna UNVOTE: .

Good for peace of mind? But is he scum

[MortFeld]

VOTE: EchoVision

[MortFeld]

Also hi TB

[MortFeld]

why are we voting me when I hammered a scum?...

Is this why you're town?

[MortFeld]

why are we voting me when I hammered a scum?...

Is this why you're town?

no I'm town cause I got a message in the beginning of the game saying a a townie...

Oh my bad I didn't know

[MortFeld]

Btw I just got fired so starting tomorrow I'll be able to spend more time with y'all

[MortFeld]

Btw I just got fired so starting tomorrow I'll be able to spend more time with y'all

Getting fired is not a good thing.

Didn't say it was.

[MortFeld]

Where are we getting 2 vigs from

creature claimed even-night vig and rebbe claimed fullvig yesterday

EDIT: agreed. you were a scummy little shit sev until he flipped blue now i'm gonna sheep the fuck out of your votes other than this one

VOTE: Dunnstral

Posts like this are why my vote doesn't leave you barring radical new into.

[MortFeld]

That and the fact that you're tunneling on Dunn for a dumb reason.

[MortFeld]

Also the fact that you went "LAMIST I hammered Wraith!"

Pedit: you're stuck on his fakeclaim right?

[MortFeld]

I think it's pretty fucking likely that a shot was made at me and the presence of a strongman makes it pretty fucking likely that I would have been docced.

So we're probably looking at

Blue team shot me
Red team shot RB
Vig/SKs shot Slick/SSBM

Nobody shot you

seems pretty certain to me

wait... breakthrough... dunn lookout who watched over sev last night??

Or he was stating his opinion

[MortFeld]

Wraith, Drealmers, Texcat, and Pine had attempted to do a quick lynch on Alisae on D1. Texcat, we already know, flipped as scum. So is there a possibility that Wraith, drealmerz, texcat, and pine are a team? Or at least some of them are part of a team??

PEdit: true.

I'd like to go back to this btw... Wraith AND Texcat have both flipped scum... different teams but still scum.

Sure. Ali is prob town.

[MortFeld]

That's all that means

[MortFeld]

I don't know what criteria you use for your PoE but what prevents you from townreading LUV?

Pedit: explained.

[MortFeld]

Why did you eliminate echo?

[MortFeld]

VOTE: drealmerz7

fuck it

scumplay

[MortFeld]

It is up to drealmerz to defend himself with something other than his usual... attitude

defend himself against?

[MortFeld]

I noticed the votes I don't understand why they exist beyond an echo counterwagon

[MortFeld]

VOTE: drealmerz7

fuck it

scumplay

i'm getting lynched anyways why does it matter

hehe scumplay

never noticed this but lol

echo if you are town you are playing on my team and right now you are not advancing my team's win condition

[MortFeld]

VOTE: drealmerz7

fuck it

scumplay

i'm getting lynched anyways why does it matter

hehe scumplay

never noticed this but lol

echo if you are town you are playing on my team and right now you are not advancing my team's win condition

well i'm voting for my scum read so idk how i'm not advancing towns win condition

Your scumreads are Dunn and D7? lol

But more to the point if all town ever did was vote their scumreads town would never win.

[MortFeld]

Not sure. I'm gonna do some reading tomorrow. You've done reading too but your analysis is awful.

[MortFeld]

creature isn't a vig, fools

I agree

what would your opinions be on a Creature, Wraith, Titus scum team??

Wraith and Titus most likely. Creature being with them? Ehhhhh, maybe...

Then you think he is red scum? Or you think he is town fakeclaiming vig?

[MortFeld]

creature isn't a vig, fools

I agree

what would your opinions be on a Creature, Wraith, Titus scum team??

Wraith and Titus most likely. Creature being with them? Ehhhhh, maybe...

well the reason I included creature was because when Titus replaced in he seemed to be all buddy buddy with creature. then not too long ago when I asked about it, I wasn't sure if the answer came off as scum theater or not. you said how you don't think Creature is really vig, so I just thought it was a possibility. My votes all over today cause idk where to put it. my reason for drealmerz is stupid...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

I'm confident in this one.

You're voting Titus because you think Creature is scum and because Titus buddied Creature so you think Titus and Creature on the same scumteam? Let me know if this is off base.

And what is your reason for scumreading D7?

[MortFeld]

Also Echo, also I dunno if scum would be so obvious to buddy their scumbuddy.

Not to mention that he's scumhunting by association despite both players involved still being alive.

[MortFeld]

Also Echo, also I dunno if scum would be so obvious to buddy their scumbuddy.

Not to mention that he's scumhunting by association despite both players involved still being alive.

Not to mention the point I'm quoting is a purdy good point mate

One of the few.

[MortFeld]

Echo you're incoherent re: Titus, Creature, Wraith

[MortFeld]

Actually I don't see either scum team killing Slick. He was contributing nothing. Seriously. I've posted almost as much as he did on this account as he did this entire game.

You replaced Rebbe

[MortFeld]

You're claiming that you didn't kill Slick. Means a different killing role did

[MortFeld]

Oh. Someone between blue red and creature didn't kill anyone.

I'm slow, this is what Servera was saying.

[MortFeld]

Holy shit fuck off guys. I did what I had to do to get scum lynched. Have a problem with my playstyle, fine, but you are a fucking tool if you think that I'm scum for it.

:/ People thinking you're scum for lying about having a role twice is not a stretch.

[MortFeld]

Looks like post-game talk honestly.

[MortFeld]

And you've been known to hard bus in the past, no? And you did lie twice about your role? How you blame people, including me, for getting paranoid?

[MortFeld]

Mort you talkin to me?

Cuz if so, Severa sorta went over the top to hard bus. It's fine to feel paranoid cuz I was paranoid too, but then I remembered Occam's Razor.

I was talking to Severa

Occam's razor is not a metric for scumminess or towniness

[MortFeld]

Simple answer: because it's multiball.

Alternative: why don't you vig the people I actually want vigged and let's kill the entire blue team so you know that I didn't hard bus Wraith. Mmmk?

Yeah I think a lot of this comes from not understanding multiball. On my HS I've played multiball but only on scum side.

[MortFeld]

Simple answer: because it's multiball.

Alternative: why don't you vig the people I actually want vigged and let's kill the entire blue team so you know that I didn't hard bus Wraith. Mmmk?

Yeah I think a lot of this comes from not understanding multiball. On my HS I've played multiball but only on scum side.

Basically by making myself the most prominent player in the game I make myself a super obvious nightkill target.
If I was red scum who wanted Wraith dead I would choose to NK him instead. I just flat out wauldn't bus him if I were blue, but I may not be able to convince you of that.

If this is true your inability to convince me would be a failing of my play, not yours.

[MortFeld]

That's what I said.

[MortFeld]

Echo you're incoherent re: Titus, Creature, Wraith

okay. Wraith flipped scum. Titus was trying very hard to make a Wraith vote not go through. This leads me to believe Titus and Wraith are scum buddies. I'll explain the creature part tomorrow when I'm sure about his alignment.

Thanks. It was incoherent because of the Creature part. But I don't think you actually looked at the reasons Titus opposed a Wraith lynch at all when forming this read.

I'm pretty comfortable with HS, Alisae, and Mortfield as my top town reads.

Why HS

[MortFeld]

^ what is your point

[MortFeld]

I noticed it. Again, you don't seem particularly interested in why she didn't want to lynch Wraith.

[MortFeld]

^ what is your point

was backing you up saying that lying about roles is definitely a lynch able offense especially in our game lol

Just realized this isn't even what I said.

[MortFeld]

What?

I didn't say lying about roles was a lynchable offense. I just said it's reasonable for people to be paranoid about Severaslot.