In post 1017, Ultimate Despair wrote: In post 1009, lucca261 wrote:0) I never said you are faking arrogance. This is again you putting things on my mouth. I said that your tone is of scum trying to get through the pressure.
"Your tone is not an arrogant tone. Your tone is of desperate scum that is trying to disprove anything that is thrown of you because it's a bad case. "
The implication is that I was faking an arrogant tone. This is not me putting words in your mouth, this is me responding to what you said. I acknowledge that I simply could have misread you there, but I certainly don't see how it was unreasonable to do so.
1) You are only trying to answer stuff if people pressure you? If it wouldn't be a problem, you wouldn't answer at all? Regardless of who you are, you are a better player than to not know why I think this.
I wasn't pressured, I was (seemingly) ASKED to provide it.
871 doom asks
Do you have a problem with restating what you've said for the sake of convenience, then?
and then I provided it in
877. Pressure on me for the most part came AFTER that big post (Hans had me on one of his potential lists, Revan called me/Hans as a possibility, not really much else during d3 up to that point, and the only vote made at that point was Hans on Revan).
So clearly I didn't answer due to pressure. So what exactly is the problem you see here? Is this simply something where you THOUGHT that I was under pressure when I provided that data? Do you dispute my version of the facts of the board as they existed at that point in time?
2) Why is this question relevant? Why should I care about what part of the argument would made he believe it or no. If he is town, he has no reason to not believe it. NO REASON. And I think he's town. So he believes in all parts of the argument. (This is UD asking me a nonsense question, that I obviously won't answer, so he can say: "Hey, lucca doesn't answer questions."
It's actually not a nonsense question. It's asking you to look at the specifics of what he was doing with a critical eye. I was curious if you were capable or interested in doing this. Apparently the answer is no.
3) In every interaction you have with people you have to believe something. You believe that I'm super derp town. I believe that you slipped. What is the problem?
My problem is that your argument that I "slipped" is nonsensical. My problem is that it's difficult to distinguish between lazy townies who push this because they're lazy, and scum who push this because it's an easy argument to use to pretend to be useful.
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1) the thing that differenciate both is the attack part. town would be concerned with defend yourself by attacking the case. you are trying to attack the player to disprove them.
Town attack the players who attack them all the time. This isn't your first game, this shouldn't be news to you. You may WISH that town only attacked arguments and not people but I don't believe that this it's somehow news to you that people do not, in fact, play this way. Also...
"caught for the wrong reasons"
or
"town who thinks that the case against him is bullshit"
What exactly differentiates the two in your mind? Do you truly think that town who thinks that the case aginast him is bullshit would only attack arguments and not the people making them?
2) yes, I should believe that what UD is doing is not scummy, because UD said so. You have said that you treat people as town unless you think they're scum. I think that you have slipped. It's different opinions of a same situation.
How many times in your career have you seen this argument being made that someone is treating someone else as town (especially as a response to a push) being a "slip" that they know their alignment? How many times has this argument been correct? Again, this isn't your first game, you should have background that you can use to evaluate the effectiveness of this "tell" (hint: it's a terrible tell and virtually no one can reliably tell alignment from this).
-M
0) I was definitely mad at you when I said that. About our interaction as well. Apologies if I disrespected you of some form.
I don't think you're faking an arrogant tone. I think that simply you are not doing an arrogant tone. Let's stop this discussion because it's not getting nowhere.
1) You were being pressured my Magna, right? He would vote you because you didn't answer his questions and all that. That's pressure. But anyway.
2) What are you trying to imply here? Do you think Fitz is scum that's using that to create a mislynch? That he is too good to be using such a dumb tell? Tell me, if I'm not capable of finding out.
3) So do you think I'm lazy town?
My scumread on you goes much further than this "knowledge of alignment" and we both know it. I've been scumreading you since D1, and this stuff happened at D3. Don't go around and say that scum pushing you with easy arguments when you know that this is not the case.
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1) In a perfect world, we agree that town would attack only the arguments. But the percentage of town who attack the enemy exclusively is way lower than the ones who attack the argument. It's basic psychology. Scum players know that the argument is true, so they attack the enemy instead. Town players know that it's false, so they attack the argument.
What differentiates them both?
Caught from the wrong reasons scum is scum that thinks that they played a good game, and is caught by something dumb like a fake hammer, slip or something like that. Then they normally get mad and all emotional.
Town who think that the case against him is bullshit is town that realizes that a case against him is bullshit. My point against you, and you can clearly see this by how many times I asked you if you townread me, is that I think that Town who think that normally scumreads the player who is doing the case against him. If a player believes that a case is so bad against them, to the point where they get mad about it, they normally think that the only reason someone would do a case so bad is if they are trying to push a mislynch.
But I don't think my case is bullshit. The stuff about the slips, they can be differented viewed by differing players? yes. Maybe it was not scummy and I've been confbiasing you. It doesn't change the fact that I had a scumread on you for a long time and want to see you lynched. And I still believe you slipped.
2) I have seen players get caught on weird tells. I have seen players get caught on fake hammers. I have seen players self-vote as town. Each game is unique. On this game, I think you're scum and slipped.
I'm starting to think that you're scum, but you really believe that stuff about tells and such. And you're not mad about being caught. You are mad about being catch with a thing that you would do regardless of alignment.
I have no experience needed to measure the effectiveness of said tells. If you want to tell me, I would be happy to hear from you.
