Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[Toaster Strudel]

MOS seems somewhat less scummy so then I did before because I do think he is making some sense now. Basically, when he voted you, I, at the time, had a bad vibe about you, so his vote did make sense to me.

Oh - let me get this straight.

(1) When MoS, who you think is scum, votes for me, who you think is scum, that's good! You vote for me. Even when it looks like I'm gone!
(2) When Kaleidoscope, about whom you have no opinion, votes for MoS, who you think is scum, that's bad! You vote for Kaleidoscope.

Where's the logic?

MOS might be scum, but I'm not sure enough that he is to ignore such anti-town looking votes like the one Kaliedoscope dropped on him.

You sounded pretty sure about MoS being before - even just before Kaleidoscope voted.

(1) Explain what MoS has done to make you more sure he's town. Please list the posts he's made where he makes so much sense that a vote against him becomes a scummy vote.

Eh. Kalei's vote dosn't look or feel like a bussing move, though.

But if YOU think MoS is scum (that's the message you were sending us all so I'll take you at your word for the sake of argument) then Kalei's vote should have been interpreted by you as bus'ing. So when you say "Kalei's vote dosn't look or feel like a bussing move" - you are contradicting yourself - or at least, your own stated beliefs.

It looks more like he was thinking that everyone was mad at MOS at the moment

Really? Why would he think that? There was little momentum on MoS.

No one gets a free pass just because they agree with me.

Except Quagmire. Everything he says is true. You're only a skeptic when it's convenient... you're so scum in this game Yos...

[Toaster Strudel]

All right, my re-read is complete.
The basics of it right now because I don't have much time
TS looks far more pro-town to me than before. I have no idea how I got on her being scum. I'm not a big fan of MoS's contributions. I don't think Quagmire needed to mention that he didn't read his role. There was no point in stating it when he did.

FoS: Quag.

I don't think it deserves a vote, because we don't need to get back on that issue right now.
Schis is lurking and just coming in for bandwagons.

FoS: schis

There are a bunch of people who need either major prodding or replacement.

However, I still feel that Peers is scum. He has not done anything this game that has changed my mind on his alignment.

unvote, vote:Peers

More probably coming when I have more time.

Your glaring, complete and utter lack of mention of Yosarian2 is noted.

The slapdash nature of your analysis leads me to believe you have re-read absolutely nothing at all. Why should you? You're caught scum, aren't you.

[Yosarian2]

That's an easy one, everyone is tired with the "BM First Class Wagon."

What about all the other players you defended?

No more dodging please.

Well, who else do you want to know about? Panzer? Panzer made a bunch of posts that sounded logical to me, he was basically making more sense then I usually hear from him, and it gave me good vibes about him. (shrug) Nothing huge, but enough for a few pages into the game.

Are you saying that it's impossible that he said that in Mafia Discussion to give himself a bit of a Day 1 advantage across the board?

I highly doubt it. Lying in mafia discussion in order to get some minor advantage in some future mafia game would be in incredibly poor taste, and would not be behavior I would consider acceptable.

On the other hand, I do believe him when he said he did read his PM now; this might sound a bit strange, but I have never seen Quagmire lie as town, and a person who hasn't read his PM basically has to assume he's town, right?

Er - yes, it sounds uber-strange. OK. You haven't read, or understood, my argument. At all. See, you're looking at it from the wrong angle. It's not that he's assuming he's town; it's that the stunt

can only help him as scum

and that

it never helps the town, especially not with Quagmire doing it

.

Right, which is why I refused to let him get away with it. I STARTED the wagon, remember?

This kind of blind trust of a player that advocates policy-lynches and pulled this stunt as scum before, is VERY ANTI-TOWN.

No blind trust involved at all. It's just that after reading his posts, I tend to think he told the truth both times. The whole point of mafia is to read what people say and try to figure out if they're telling the truth, isn't it? Well, go back and read his posts. Try to forget that you're annoyed with him for the whole thing, and just read what he says and try to figure out for yourself if it feels like he's lying.

What did you want the Quagwagon to accomplish, Yosarian? Tell the whole class.

I made that quite clear right from the beginning. This was the post of mine which started the entire Quagmire wagon.

Theory: This might or might not help Quagmire, but it can only hurt the town, because it makes him literally impossible to read him day 1, and makes all of his posts basically completly useless for information purposes. It's even worse then lurking, because even if someone's lurking just the fact that they ARE lurking MIGHT give the town SOME information.

Suggestion: Assuming Quag is telling the truth, he is probably doing this in order to avoid getting pressured/giving ; that's the only logical reason to do it, after all. So he should give up the "not reading the PM" tactic if we pressure him enough. And frankly, if he dosn't give in to pressure and just read his role PM, his "I didn't read my role PM" thing is a better reason for a policy lynch then anything TS's done this game.

unvote:MOS Still don't like his terrible OMGUS "Oh my god how dare you think my policy lynch attempt is scummy" vote on Jorden, but we'll get back to lynching MOS later.

vote:Quagmire until he reads his freaking role PM.

All along, I thought that if we just put enough pressure on Quagmire, he would give up and read his role PM; since the only rational reason to NOT read a role PM and then to say that you didn't read it would be in order to avoid being pressured or giving tells. So, like I said right from the start, the entire point of the wagon was to make Quagmire read his freaking role PM.

[Yosarian2]

Oh - let me get this straight.

(1) When MoS, who you think is scum, votes for me, who you think is scum, that's good! You vote for me. Even when it looks like I'm gone!
(2) When Kaleidoscope, about whom you have no opinion, votes for MoS, who you think is scum, that's bad! You vote for Kaleidoscope.

Where's the logic?

That actually has nothing to do with my logic.

MOS voted for you at a point of the game where I, as a pro-town player, might have done the exact same thing, so his move made me feel a little better about him.

Kalei voted for MOS in a way that didn't look pro-town at all to me.

I'm not even trying to do the kind of "X voted for Y, Y is scum, therefore..." analysis you're talking about, TS. I tend to think that trying to do that kind of analysis before we actually know anyone's alignment is foolish and self-defeating. What I'm trying to do is read individual posts and try to figure out if they're the kind of posts I would be more likely to make as a pro-town player or as a scum, and that's all.

(1) Explain what MoS has done to make you more sure he's town. Please list the posts he's made where he makes so much sense that a vote against him becomes a scummy vote.

Um, no thanks, I already said I'm not interested in trying to defend MOS at this point.

No one gets a free pass just because they agree with me.

Except Quagmire. Everything he says is true. You're only a skeptic when it's convenient... you're so scum in this game Yos...

There are two specific things Quagmire said that I think are true, and I've explained why I think both things are true a few times now.

[Toaster Strudel]

Are you saying that it's impossible that he said that in Mafia Discussion to give himself a bit of a Day 1 advantage across the board?

I highly doubt it. Lying in mafia discussion in order to get some minor advantage in some future mafia game would be in incredibly poor taste, and would not be behavior I would consider acceptable.

And Quagmire could not do something in "incredibly poor taste?" That's impossible? You can't wrap your head around the idea of Quagmire doing something unacceptable?

Right, which is why I refused to let him get away with it. I STARTED the wagon, remember?

I give you ZERO credit for starting the wagon, since you stated at the onset that it was for pressure only. And he DID get away with it, because you ALSO started the wave that let him get away without having to PROVE that he read his PM, and stop jerking us around. YOU let him get away with it. You and hasdfas.

No blind trust involved at all. It's just that after reading his posts, I tend to think he told the truth both times.

How would you KNOW he's telling the truth? We were all within INCHES of finding out, but nooooo... you and hasdfgas shielded him from the scrutiny of claiming.

and just read what he says and try to figure out for yourself if it feels like he's lying.

No - it's YOUR job to extract from Quagmire's posts what you felt was so convincing when he declared he read his role PM... AT LYNCH MINUS ONE for cryin' out loud... do you get this? He didn't "relent" until he was within hammering range.

Assuming Quag is telling the truth..

Fallacy #1.

he is probably doing this in order to avoid getting pressured/giving

Fallacy #2. It's to discourage people from looking back at his Day 1 behavior, or to plant doubt on the value of any analysis of his Day 1 behavior.

that's the only logical reason to do it, after all.

Fallacy #3, see above.

So he should give up the "not reading the PM" tactic if we pressure him enough.

Fallacy #4. Why, since it might be false in the first place? Maybe he still didn't read it, maybe he'd read it at game start. You don't know, and you're singularly eager to allow yourself to be jerked around.

And frankly, if he dosn't give in to pressure and just read his role PM,

Fallacy #5. See above.

...his "I didn't read my role PM" thing is a better reason for a policy lynch then anything TS's done this game.

Fallacy #6. Thanks to you and hadgfas, we can't be sure of anything - therefore, if you are logical, and pro-town, you don't have any fewer reasons to policy-lynch Quagmire for his stunt, than you did before he claimed to have read his PM.

Confusing tags?

unvote:MOS

You're not voting MoS, you're voting Kaleidoscope.

Still don't like his terrible OMGUS "Oh my god how dare you think my policy lynch attempt is scummy" vote on Jorden, but we'll get back to lynching MOS later.

Why later, always later? You have a better idea? What, you don't think Kaleidoscope is scummier than MoS anymore?

All along, I thought that if we just put enough pressure on Quagmire, he would give up and read his role PM

For the gazillionth time... we don't know whether he did, or when he did it, and what parts of his stunt are manipulating lies, and which parts of his stunt are true.

[Peers]

All along, I thought that if we just put enough pressure on Quagmire, he would give up and read his role PM

For the gazillionth time... we don't know whether he did, or when he did it, and what parts of his stunt are manipulating lies, and which parts of his stunt are true.

Devil's Advocate time: How do we know you read your PM, TS? How do you know I read mine? How do we know anyone read their PM?

[Toaster Strudel]

Explain what MoS has done to make you more sure he's town. Please list the posts he's made where he makes so much sense that a vote against him becomes a scummy vote.

Um, no thanks, I already said I'm not interested in trying to defend MOS at this point.

Right. Because MoS has not made any posts that make such stellar sense for you to find, and you know it. And by attacking Kaleidoscope for voting MoS, you are, indirectly protecting MoS, by shifting the attack away from MoS, onto another player.

MOS voted for you at a point of the game where I, as a pro-town player, might have done the exact same thing, so his move made me feel a little better about him.

You do realize that your vote for me came when I was gone, and the only reason you gave is "She looks like over-eager scum to me."

Please explain why your vote for me is pro-town, but Kaleidoscope's vote for MoS isn't,

using the same set of standards.

No one gets a free pass just because they agree with me.

Except Quagmire. Everything he says is true. You're only a skeptic when it's convenient... you're so scum in this game Yos...

There are two specific things Quagmire said that I think are true, and I've explained why I think both things are true a few times now.

Not logically, you haven't.

[Toaster Strudel]

Devil's Advocate time: How do we know you read your PM, TS? How do you know I read mine? How do we know anyone read their PM?

I haven't made any declaration regarding the reading of my role PM either way; to do so would be jerking the town around.

[Toaster Strudel]

All along, I thought that if we just put enough pressure on Quagmire, he would give up and read his role PM

For the gazillionth time... we don't know whether he did, or when he did it, and what parts of his stunt are manipulating lies, and which parts of his stunt are true.

Devil's Advocate time: How do we know you read your PM, TS? How do you know I read mine? How do we know anyone read their PM?

Devil's Advocate time, Part 2: from all the discussion that has been going on, cornering on hasdgfas and Yosarian (and not Quagmire, as hasgfas and Quagmire might have slipped might be a mislynch), why do you choose to ask me a question whose answer cannot possibly be informative, and fails to contain any statement of YOUR OWN OPINION on hasfgas and Yosarian2?

I hope you realize that hasdfas' bizarre and "out of left field" fixation on YOU reeks of distancing?

[Toaster Strudel]

Full-random

vote: hasdgfas

Speaking of distancing between you and hasdfas. Let me remind you of your first, "full random vote", Peers.

Coincidence?

[Yosarian2]

And Quagmire could not do something in "incredibly poor taste?" That's impossible? You can't wrap your head around the idea of Quagmire doing something unacceptable?

It's quite unlikely. Nothing is certain, and I never said it was.

Look, you're not making a lot of sense here. Do YOU think Quagmire is lying, or do you think he's telling the truth, or are you not sure? Because if you really think he's lying, you should be voting for him.

Part of the reason I suspected you was because it seemed quite obveous to me that the most likely scenerio was Quagmire telling the truth, in which case you were probably looking to get an easy lynch.

I give you ZERO credit for starting the wagon, since you stated at the onset that it was for pressure only. And he DID get away with it, because you ALSO started the wave that let him get away without having to PROVE that he read his PM, and stop jerking us around. YOU let him get away with it. You and hasdfas.

Get away with what, exactally? Whatever gain he might have gotten from not reading his role PM, he clearly lost.

How would you KNOW he's telling the truth? We were all within INCHES of finding out, but nooooo... you and hasdfgas shielded him from the scrutiny of claiming.

NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING. THAT'S ALWAYS TRUE IN MAFIA. I THINK he's telling the truth, that just seems a lot more likely then him not telling the truth, so I unvoted him. Do you have some problem with me trying to figure out if someone's telling the truth or not based on their posts?

and just read what he says and try to figure out for yourself if it feels like he's lying.

No - it's YOUR job to extract from Quagmire's posts what you felt was so convincing when he declared he read his role PM... AT LYNCH MINUS ONE for cryin' out loud... do you get this? He didn't "relent" until he was within hammering range. [/quote]

Um...what?

I came to my own conclusion, which is that he's most likely telling the truth, and explained it. But you don't seeem interested in what I think, you only seem interested in what I can or can't prove, and of course I can't prove anything at this point. So, fine, read what he said and draw your own conclusion.

And now you're...saying it's not your job to read quagmire's posts and figure out for yourself if he's lying or not? When you were the one who was more then anyone else trying to get him to either claim or be lynched? Based on your attempt to lynch Quagmire, I certainly think it IS, in fact, your job.

Assuming Quag is telling the truth..

Fallacy #1.

No, stating your assumptions is not a logical fallacy, it's actually the main part of how logic works. First I explained why I thought that Quagmire is telling the truth, then I explained what that would imply if true. Do you know what a fallacy is?

...and the next 6 so-called "fallacies" are you ripping apart the post when I attacked Quagmire. Which is just freaking bizzare, as when I origionally MADE that post, not only did you not attack it, you agreed with it and FOLLOWED me on it. And now you're trying to say it's logically flawed? Pshaw.

Why later, always later? You have a better idea? What, you don't think Kaleidoscope is scummier than MoS anymore?

Um, because first, I wanted to make Quagmire read his role PM. I suceeded, at which point I went back to attacking MOS, just like I said I would.

Again, you didn't have any problem with any of this stuff the first time around?

For the gazillionth time... we don't know whether he did, or when he did it, and what parts of his stunt are manipulating lies, and which parts of his stunt are true.

For the gazillionth +1 time, no, of course we don't KNOW, that's why we read people's posts is so we can try to FIGURE OUT if they're telling the truth or not.

[Yosarian2]

[quote="Toaster Strudel"]Right. Because MoS has not made any posts that make such stellar sense for you to find, and you know it. [/quote]

...what?

[quote]
And by attacking Kaleidoscope for voting MoS, you are, indirectly protecting MoS, by shifting the attack away from MoS, onto another player.[/quote]

You know, by that logic, you're defending Quagmire and MOS and everyone else by attacking me. I was just attacking the person who, at that moment in time, looked scummiest to me. Do you disagree with me that Kaleidoscope looks scummy? Are you "defending" Kaleidoscope by attacking my vote for him?


[quote]You do realize that your vote for me came when I was gone, and the only reason you gave is "She looks like over-eager scum to me." [/quote]

Yes, certanly. Your action towards Quagmire did make me think you were scum who was over-eager to get an easy lynch.

[quote]
Please explain why your vote for me is pro-town, but Kaleidoscope's vote for MoS isn't,

using the same set of standards.

[/quote]

Did you read Kaleidoscope's comments about MOS?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Ergo, MoS contradicts himself. He should get lynched (and raped)

Unvote Vote: Mastermind of Sin

[/quote]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]It's a policy lynch, MoS. I doubt I have to explain you that, no? <3[/quote]

Do you actually not think those posts are scummy? He attacked MOS for a bogus reason that didn't make any sense, and when he was called on it, he instead insisted that his MOS vote was a "policy lynch", which makes even less sense. I certanly think his behavior there deserves a vote, don't you?


[quote]There are two specific things Quagmire said that I think are true, and I've explained why I think both things are true a few times now.[/quote]Not logically, you haven't.[/quote][/quote]

Um, yes, logically, I have explained why I think both comments are true. You have yet to point out any logical flaws in my explination for either one of those. You have pointed out that it wasn't absolutle proof, which of course I agree with, but you haven't done anything to change my mind.

Make a logical argument about exactally what you think he was lying about, when, and what exactally he would have to gain by it. If you think he's lying scum, the burden of proof here is really on you.

[Quagmire]

I feel like I should be saying something right now because the discussion is on me. However, I'll refrain unless people have any specific questions into my behavior becaues this argument is between Yos2 and TS. I'd like to note that I'm still voting for TS and none of my intentions have changed since I posted content last.

[Peers]

Full-random

vote: hasdgfas

Speaking of distancing between you and hasdfas. Let me remind you of your first, "full random vote", Peers.

Coincidence?

Nope. not random at all. You caught me. I'm obviously distancing myself from my scumbuddies, hasdfas, Yosarian, and Quagmire. We had a brilliant plan that was going to get us the win in this game quite easily, but your keen, analytical mind managed to pierce our veil of secrecy, sieze upon every minute, unseen flaw in our plan, and have managed to win the game for the town on the very first day.

Tell me, what's more likely... that a random vote was cast weeks ago and that person is now voting against me simply out of coincidence, or the above scenario?

The sad thing is... I was buying your case on Yos and hasdaflag. It was logical, it made sense, and then I ask one little question and you go rabid-pit-bull on me. Ease off the paranoia a little before you begin to lose what momentum you've earned with the rest of us the last couple days.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Between Kalei and hasd, who would you vote ?

[Toaster Strudel]

[quote="Yosarian2"][quote="TS"]And by attacking Kaleidoscope for voting MoS, you are, indirectly protecting MoS, by shifting the attack away from MoS, onto another player.[/quote]You know, by that logic, you're defending Quagmire and MOS and everyone else by attacking me. [/quote]Exactly. I am.
[quote="Yosarian2"][quote]
Please explain why your vote for me is pro-town, but Kaleidoscope's vote for MoS isn't,

using the same set of standards.

[/quote]
Did you read Kaleidoscope's comments about MOS?
[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Ergo, MoS contradicts himself. He should get lynched (and raped)

Unvote Vote: Mastermind of Sin

[/quote]
[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]It's a policy lynch, MoS. I doubt I have to explain you that, no? <3[/quote]Do you actually not think those posts are scummy? [/quote]They don't jump out at me, no.

[quote="Yosarian2"]He attacked MOS for a bogus reason that didn't make any sense[/quote]It made sense to me.

[quote="Yosarian2"]...and when he was called on it, he instead insisted that his MOS vote was a "policy lynch", which makes even less sense. I certanly think his behavior there deserves a vote, don't you?[/quote]You said you'd vote MoS until he makes sense, and Quag until he read his role PM. Please state ahead of time what Kaleidoscope has to do for you to later the derail the wagon you are starting

[quote="Yosarian2"][quote="TS"]...[quote="Yos"]There are two specific things Quagmire said that I think are true, and I've explained why I think both things are true a few times now.[/quote]Not logically, you haven't.[/quote]Um, yes, logically, I have explained why I think both comments are true. [/quote]Not to any standard of logic. You haven't explained why you believe everything Quagmire says, but you're skeptical of other players.

[quote="Yosarian2"][You have yet to point out any logical flaws in my explination for either one of those. [/quote]I so totally have, like, over and over. You have failed to give LOGICAL, BELIEVABLE reasons why you are so eager to take Quagmire's nonsense as the truth, Quagmire who has policy voted me, Quagmire who has jerked us around, Quagmire whom you've allowed to go claimless, Quagmire who has pulled his stunt as scum, Quagmire who continues to vote me (a player you now feel might just be town).

[quote="Yosarian2"]Make a logical argument about exactally what you think he was lying about, when, and what exactly he would have to gain by it. If you think he's lying scum, the burden of proof here is really on you.[/quote]I've already answered this

ad nauseum

. I've explained that it's impossible to tell whether he's told the truth at all at any time, especially since you let him get away without claiming, and I've explained many times that his "strategy" can only help him personally if he's scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

I feel like I should be saying something right now because the discussion is on me. However, I'll refrain unless people have any specific questions into my behavior becaues this argument is between Yos2 and TS. I'd like to note that I'm still voting for TS and none of my intentions have changed since I posted content last.

I do have questions.

Did you omit to mention hasgfas on purpose, or accidentally?

Also, I'd like the following from you:
Please give your opinion of Peers.
Please give your opinion of hasdfgas.
Please give your opinion of Yosarian2.
Please order these 3 players on a scale from town to scum.
Please provide appropriate quotes to support any statements that you make.

[Peers]

Also, I'd like the following from you:
Please give your opinion of Peers.
Please give your opinion of hasdfgas.
Please give your opinion of Yosarian2.
Please order these 3 players on a scale from town to scum.
Please provide appropriate quotes to support any statements that you make.

"You must have the above typed out, double-spaced, in no larger than fourteen-point font, on my desk at the beginning of class on Tuesday. This paper is weighted just the same as a test, so it will have a definite impact on your grade. Make sure you correctly use footnotes for your citations and no, Wikipedia and 'I heard on TV' are not allowed as sources."

[Toaster Strudel]

Full-random

vote: hasdgfas

Speaking of distancing between you and hasdfas. Let me remind you of your first, "full random vote", Peers.
Coincidence?

Nope. not random at all. You caught me. I'm obviously distancing myself from my scumbuddies, hasdfas, Yosarian, and Quagmire. We had a brilliant plan that was going to get us the win in this game quite easily, but your keen, analytical mind managed to pierce our veil of secrecy, sieze upon every minute, unseen flaw in our plan, and have managed to win the game for the town on the very first day.

Tell me, what's more likely... that a random vote was cast weeks ago and that person is now voting against me simply out of coincidence, or the above scenario?

Don't knock it; you'll find some people saying that Day 1's are a crap shoot, but if you've played a lot of games, and a lot of them as scum, so start to see that this is exactly the kind of thing scum *tend* to do.

Example. Your first random vote is for hasdfas, right? Sure, by itself, it's not much, in fact, it's nothing. But then... hasdfas makes a lot of really bad mistakes, and he's looking really scummy, and he feels cornered. On of his mistakes is to display an obsession with you. Why you? I cannot think of anything that you have done, Peers, that is so scummy that a player would always want to go back and vote for you. Out of the blue, when there's little hope that any momentum will carry you to the lynching block. So... there's a chance that what hasfdgfas is doing, is last minute distancing. And, then I notice that your first "random" vote was for him.

If hasdfas turns up town, Peers, then you have absolutely NOTHING to worry about from him. If hasdfas turns up scum... well... you're not looking so good.

The sad thing is... I was buying your case on Yos and hasdaflag. It was logical, it made sense, and then I ask one little question and you go rabid-pit-bull on me.

I tend to question and challenge a lot. When I saw that the question you asked comkpletely skirted around the true issues at stake at the moment, which is the scumminess of hasdfas and Yosarian2, I thought, hmmm... why is Peers beingn so irrelevent... and... hey! Funny how hasdfas is obsessed with Peers... yes, that's really been bugging me a lot... so then I look at your posts, and all seem fine, so hasdfas's obsessions seems even more bizarre... and then I notice that your first vote is on him.

Ease off the paranoia a little before you begin to lose what momentum you've earned with the rest of us the last couple days.

Bah. Momentum, schmomentum. I see no evidence of momentum. Yosarian2 (no surprise here) isn't voting for hasfas, so I haven't convinced him; you have showed up, but you haven't voted for either of my nominees; Zu_faul also showed up with some comment that shows he's read nothing at all; even vote-happy ABR hasn't switched his vote. Show me the momentum...

[Toaster Strudel]

Also, I'd like the following from you:
Please give your opinion of Peers.
Please give your opinion of hasdfgas.
Please give your opinion of Yosarian2.
Please order these 3 players on a scale from town to scum.
Please provide appropriate quotes to support any statements that you make.

"You must have the above typed out, double-spaced, in no larger than fourteen-point font, on my desk at the beginning of class on Tuesday. This paper is weighted just the same as a test, so it will have a definite impact on your grade. Make sure you correctly use footnotes for your citations and no, Wikipedia and 'I heard on TV' are not allowed as sources."

Speaking of which... I want you to complete that assignment, too. Would you please? So far you have not made comments that are directly relevent to the discussion. The assignment will keep you focused, haha.

[Peers]

I cannot think of anything that you have done, Peers, that is so scummy that a player would always want to go back and vote for you.

Really?

Oh, please.

Your very third post, you thought someone was bussing me and decided to help them by voting for me. Now you think someone's distancing themselves from me. You go far as to say (your sixth post) that I'm trying to make myself look good because I know Sikario is a mislynch. Your entire early game here was based on the theory that I was scum and was trying to throw people off the trail of my buddies (eighth post). Then you add MoS into the mix for policy lynching you, claiming the scum are him, me, and either Panzer or Jordan.

What I find amazing is that, in your twenty-first post... Nov 25, 11:32am... you say hasdgfas has a genuine reason to be voting for me. And yet now, over a month later, you decide he's distancing from me? Well, that -does- support your newest arguement better... screw the past, we can always call it hindsight!

You left your vote on me until early December, when you changed it to MoS. Two days later, you switched to Quagmire for the read-your-PM bandwagon, while still saying you're not happy I 'got away' without claiming. You then leave for thirteen days and come back focused on Yosarian and hasdaflag.

(...) I thought, hmmm... why is Peers beingn so irrelevent... and... hey! Funny how hasdfas is obsessed with Peers... yes, that's really been bugging me a lot... so then I look at your posts, and all seem fine, so hasdfas's obsessions seems even more bizarre... and then I notice that your first vote is on him.

Yes.... hasdfas was the only one obsessed with me... you've been thinking I'm scum since the game started, had your vote on me for nearly an entire month, and now you're drawing at straws to try and justify it, because you're praying for someone else to start a bandwagon on me. If I turn up scum, you can say "I told you so!" If I turn up town, you can berate whoever started the wagon because you obviously had seen I was town when you took your vote off me. Either way, you come out smelling like roses.

And yet you can't think of anything I've done that's so scummy someone would go vote for me again... I find that an amazingly hard thing to believe.

[Toaster Strudel]

I cannot think of anything that you have done, Peers, that is so scummy that a player would always want to go back and vote for you.

Your very third post, you thought someone was bussing me and decided to help them by voting for me. Now you think someone's distancing themselves from me. You go far as to say (your sixth post) that I'm trying to make myself look good because I know Sikario is a mislynch.

Thank you for the reminder. But is it soooo scummy that a player would always want to go back and vote you?

You say hasdgfas has a genuine reason to be voting for me. And yet now, over a month later, you decide he's distancing from me?

That's part of the kind of thing I like to look for - and believe it or not, there is no contradiction whatsoever. Let's suppose that hasdfas and you are buddies, for the sake of discussion. He's very atuned to what you do that is, in fact, scummy. Because he knows you're scum, and he knows what you're up to. But he has other goals: (1) he must show that he's pro-town, by showing that he's clever at finding scum (you in this hypothesis) and attacking scum and (2) earn himself some "town cred" in order to last long in the game. Therefore, if you do anything vaguely scummy, your buddies will often be the first to call you out on it. Not always - these are not absolutes - but often. So... it's very possible that hasdfas has genuine reasons for voting you; because he's scum, and you're scum, and he wants to show he's good at catching scum and a valuable "townie" and he needs to distance from you.

You left your vote on me until early December, when you changed it to MoS. Two days later, you switched to Quagmire for the read-your-PM bandwagon, while still saying you're not happy I 'got away' without claiming. You then leave for thirteen days and come back focused on Yosarian and hasdaflag.

What's wrong with that? Nice description.

...you're praying for someone else to start a bandwagon on me.

I am? Defensive much? I'm all over hasdgas and Yosarian, and I'm praying for someone else to start a wagon on you, AND I berate hasfas for doing exactly that, which is, starting a bandwagon on you???

If I turn up scum, you can say "I told you so!" If I turn up town, you can berate whoever started the wagon because you obviously had seen I was town when you took your vote off me. Either way, you come out smelling like roses.

You're mighty nervous. Whose lynch am I advocating? hasdfas or Yosarian. Who am I voting for? hasdfgas. You were off my mind... I'd obviously forgotten why I found you scummy earlier... I was even after hasfgas for voting you... jumpy jumpy jumpy!

Why are you totally ignoring Yosarian2 and hasdfas, by the by?

[Toaster Strudel]

Toaster'd

1. hasdfgas
2. Yosarian2
3. Peers

distant fourth...

4. Quagmire (maybe - maybe Yosarian wanted his buddy to read his PR so that he plays better as scum? The jury's still out)

[Albert B. Rampage]

You should change that to Toasted !

I luuuv the smell of toasted scum in the mornin'!

[Toaster Strudel]

You should change that to Toasted !

I luuuv the smell of toasted scum in the mornin'!

Which one are you spreading your marmalade on?