Open 672: Friends and Enemies and Enemies: Music on a whim

[Joey_]

To be fair this is not the kind of play that happen often because mason crumbs a lot and people are pussy about ccing

[Lowell]

From page 8:

@tenshi's 242: Big lungs is town. Tonally. Gut read. Something. As for revan? Well,

mostly I just want him to be town because he townreads me. But if I have to give a

reason, I'd say it's the effortlessness with which he called me town. He didn't do it in

a performative way that would ping me that I'm possibly being pocketed.

252- good post, will reconsider revan. also laud is town.

306- tenshii votes laud, calls case on revan opportunistic [hadn't occurred to me, not sure I agree]

340- TB claims mason

350s+ - pile on joey for pushing mason claim [eh, I don't see it]

492- realeo hits it exactly right, no one gives a shit about masons

Sorry I missed the weekend, folks.

[Lowell]

Long story short, I basically agree entirely with realeo's 492 regarding the mason claim and joey's role in it. It's multiball, so, it's not clear why either team would give up a chance to kill their opponents just to take out a mason. Esp if the other team might do it for them. TBH my reaction when I read the claim was "damn, glad I'm not scum bc I don't know wtf to do with that" (LAMIST!). If anything, it just makes the rest of our jobs easier because we can limit the field of potential scum.

VOTE: realeo

PLOT TWIST! So, I agree with realeo's 492 completely. Honestly, I think he's thought about this scenario a little too much. And too carefully. The subtle way he comes back later with a short-list of killables also reads scummy to me. Not sure how he narrows it down to three there. I should for sure be on it, but so should several others.

[cassielle]

So, I agree with realeo's 492 completely. Honestly, I think he's thought about this scenario a little too much. And too carefully. The subtle way he comes back later with a short-list of killables also reads scummy to me. Not sure how he narrows it down to three there. I should for sure be on it, but so should several others.

This feels like crap.

1: The standard for his silly readslist is obvious: activity, with TB out of the running because claim. This is the exact criteria for the list. I pointed it out (loudly calling it bad and a guaranteed train of MLs) and he accepted that it was a good point (implying agreement with it being a bad list).

2: Having put a lot of thought into these sorts of things myself, by your logic I also must be scum. In fact, anyone who's put any significant amount of thought into scumteam motivations and best strategies has to be scum by that same logic.

However: Town has more reason to think these things through than scum. Here's a town narrative. If you know (or can figure out) optimal or near-optimal scumteam strategies, you can watch for signs of them to pinpoint scum, and you can manipulate scum into giving town certain information (e.g. flips) because the only way to deny that information would be to increase the difficulty of their own wincon.

Therefore, on the basis of the above, I think your Realeo scumread is crap. How do you respond?

[ThinkBig]

Long story short, I basically agree entirely with realeo's 492 regarding the mason claim and joey's role in it. It's multiball, so, it's not clear why either team would give up a chance to kill their opponents just to take out a mason. Esp if the other team might do it for them. TBH my reaction when I read the claim was "damn, glad I'm not scum bc I don't know wtf to do with that" (LAMIST!). If anything, it just makes the rest of our jobs easier because we can limit the field of potential scum.

VOTE: realeo

PLOT TWIST! So, I agree with realeo's 492 completely. Honestly, I think he's thought about this scenario a little too much. And too carefully. The subtle way he comes back later with a short-list of killables also reads scummy to me. Not sure how he narrows it down to three there. I should for sure be on it, but so should several others.

Eeeeew.

[ThinkBig]

Here is where I am at:

Town: {BK, Real, Laud, Cass}
Lean town: {Hans}
Null: {Everyone else not mentioned above or below}
Scum: {Lowell, Revan, Joey}

[ThinkBig]

My biggest problem with Lowell is that his entire ISO is opportunistic votes and attempts to cast shades. Quickly becoming a very strong scum read - even stronger than Joey

[ThinkBig]

VOTE: Lowell

I want to start pressuring this slot. I'll deal with Joey later this DP and if he lives to DP2 that phase should sort him out.

[alban]

Mod, don't replace me. I will try to read.

[Superhans]

+1

haven't voted a player since RVS.
think Lowell is a good place to start, do not like his vote on Realo.

VOTE: Lowell

[Superhans]

Mod, don't replace me. I will try to read.

thanks man.

[ThinkBig]

VOTE: alban

Boom.

RVS

VOTE: cass

She's a try-hard scum. I can see it already. Wagon with me sheeple.

How am I not voting?

VOTE: cass

Very opportunistic vote on case. You're now voting real. Why? How do you feel about cass now?

[alban]

Night here. Will read tomorrow.
Ty Superhans

[ThinkBig]

Have a good night alban. Thanks for staying.

[Lowell]

So, I agree with realeo's 492 completely. Honestly, I think he's thought about this scenario a little too much. And too carefully. The subtle way he comes back later with a short-list of killables also reads scummy to me. Not sure how he narrows it down to three there. I should for sure be on it, but so should several others.

This feels like crap.

1: The standard for his silly readslist is obvious: activity, with TB out of the running because claim. This is the exact criteria for the list. I pointed it out (loudly calling it bad and a guaranteed train of MLs) and he accepted that it was a good point (implying agreement with it being a bad list).

2: Having put a lot of thought into these sorts of things myself, by your logic I also must be scum. In fact, anyone who's put any significant amount of thought into scumteam motivations and best strategies has to be scum by that same logic.

However: Town has more reason to think these things through than scum. Here's a town narrative. If you know (or can figure out) optimal or near-optimal scumteam strategies, you can watch for signs of them to pinpoint scum, and you can manipulate scum into giving town certain information (e.g. flips) because the only way to deny that information would be to increase the difficulty of their own wincon.

Therefore, on the basis of the above, I think your Realeo scumread is crap. How do you respond?

I.... disagree? Realeo seems like a smart guy. He's trying to figure out what to do. One of the scumteams ought to kill him.

[ThinkBig]

So, I agree with realeo's 492 completely. Honestly, I think he's thought about this scenario a little too much. And too carefully. The subtle way he comes back later with a short-list of killables also reads scummy to me. Not sure how he narrows it down to three there. I should for sure be on it, but so should several others.

This feels like crap.

1: The standard for his silly readslist is obvious: activity, with TB out of the running because claim. This is the exact criteria for the list. I pointed it out (loudly calling it bad and a guaranteed train of MLs) and he accepted that it was a good point (implying agreement with it being a bad list).

2: Having put a lot of thought into these sorts of things myself, by your logic I also must be scum. In fact, anyone who's put any significant amount of thought into scumteam motivations and best strategies has to be scum by that same logic.

However: Town has more reason to think these things through than scum. Here's a town narrative. If you know (or can figure out) optimal or near-optimal scumteam strategies, you can watch for signs of them to pinpoint scum, and you can manipulate scum into giving town certain information (e.g. flips) because the only way to deny that information would be to increase the difficulty of their own wincon.

Therefore, on the basis of the above, I think your Realeo scumread is crap. How do you respond?

I.... disagree? Realeo seems like a smart guy. He's trying to figure out what to do. One of the scumteams ought to kill him.

Trying to coordinate night kills? Yuck.

[Lowell]

I would like to coordinate night kills if I could do it right, sure. I have a list too, and realeo is on it.

[ThinkBig]

I would like to coordinate night kills if I could do it right, sure. I have a list too, and realeo is on it.

How is coordinating night kills town??? Interesting you should say one of the scumteams should kill him as opposed to the other scum team should kill him. You seem to know he is town in the wording that you use

[ThinkBig]

The best night outcome is for the scum team to shoot each other or to shoot the same person. By coordinating night kills, you are trying to get the teams to shoot two different people. That is blatantly anti town.

[Lowell]

I'm saying whichever team he's not on. How would I know which team unless I'm on a team?

[ThinkBig]

Opportunistic voting, casting shades and now coordinating night kills. Yeah, Lowell is definitely scum

[Big Lungs DK]

@dk tell me what would be the scumgain to poke at seemingly 2 masons claim? To fish ? A scum gambit ? What about just town wanting to clarify the bad claim

See 505:

#1 The scum motivation - I won't out my main but I know Joey_'s main and he is a competent scum player and I've seen him make wild plays before. I would not bat an eye if Joey was trying to out multiple Masons to draw them into the line of fire of the opposite scumteam so that his partner would be safe from NKs for 2-3 nights as the other scum faction killed the masons. It is also very much like Cloud to do something brazenly scummy knowing that town will hesitate to call him scum when he's being so obvious about it.
-This is what he wants you to think

Exemple : 1st team kill the most obvious mason TB,

scum laud!search for another mason then claim last mason

This is possibly NK coordination, also in that situation the last mason can claim if necessary and if laud is VT he can back down from his false mason status, and if he's scum, then, at worst, we trade a mason 1 for 1 with scum

So, I agree with realeo's 492 completely. Honestly, I think he's thought about this scenario a little too much. And too carefully. The subtle way he comes back later with a short-list of killables also reads scummy to me. Not sure how he narrows it down to three there. I should for sure be on it, but so should several others.

This feels like crap.

1: The standard for his silly readslist is obvious: activity, with TB out of the running because claim. This is the exact criteria for the list. I pointed it out (loudly calling it bad and a guaranteed train of MLs) and he accepted that it was a good point (implying agreement with it being a bad list).

2: Having put a lot of thought into these sorts of things myself, by your logic I also must be scum. In fact, anyone who's put any significant amount of thought into scumteam motivations and best strategies has to be scum by that same logic.

However: Town has more reason to think these things through than scum. Here's a town narrative. If you know (or can figure out) optimal or near-optimal scumteam strategies, you can watch for signs of them to pinpoint scum, and you can manipulate scum into giving town certain information (e.g. flips) because the only way to deny that information would be to increase the difficulty of their own wincon.

Therefore, on the basis of the above, I think your Realeo scumread is crap. How do you respond?

I.... disagree? Realeo seems like a smart guy. He's trying to figure out what to do. One of the scumteams ought to kill him.

Yeah trying to coordinate the NK with the other team. Joey probably not Lowell's partner
Also, if you expect one of the scumteams to kill him, why would you try to lynch him?

VOTE: Lowell
So, @Lowell's partner, (if it's not Joey), you can shoot Joey to equalize the teams. If there's a full scumteam after a scum!Lowell flip you could probably eliminate his team by shooting Joey

[ThinkBig]

Real/Lowell = Not a team
Lowell/Joey = Not a team

[ThinkBig]

Actually Joey/Lowell can be a pair.

[Big Lungs DK]

How is Lowell/Joey not a team considering Lowell's 527 is covering for Joey's behavior surrounding your claim?
pedit: ^