Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[Narna]

The setup was batshit, but I dig it. Maxous was obviously playing like a survivor, and we fucked up by not capitalizing on it and lynching the governor.

[Narna]

My replace in was also ass withe the mcmenno/moi pushes.

[callforjudgement]

Lynching Leonshade didn't actually hurt town at all. It meant the scumgroup ended up smaller when it was created, and Governor is fairly low-power as town power roles go.

[Narna]

I just remember being fairly cocksure in my Maxous read until Leon barged in calling it trash.

[Narna]

mfw each day without facing rope.

[JaeReed]

3 out of 4 seems unlikely to be coincidence, and yet I still feel dissatisfied with the way my play turned out.

I think what happened here is more along the lines of being pinged by your gut and hunting for reasons why that was. The reasoning was incorrect but your instincts were amazing. Basically, the catch was more instinct than logical reasoning. Which I think is perfectly fine in a game.

In terms of what happened with BYF, this is either a huge (if fairly amusing) failure of reading comprehension from BYF for not noticing the indicators in the PM that it wasn't modconfirmed information, or a failure of the mod to send unconfirmed information in a way that isn't clearly marked as unconfirmed. I'm guessing the former, but either way am both somewhat confused and somewhat amused as to how it happened. (For people who missed it, BYF genuinely seems to have believed he was scum, on the basis of a message sent by Maxous, and was possibly more surprised at his Townflip than anyone else.)

It didn't specify scum buddies and stated prior to it that "During Night 7 you received the following message:" from my understanding of it after reading the Gaster's Followers thread and the way Skull said it worked there. I don't believe this was an issue with Skull, tbh, but I don't think it's necessarily reflective on Yoshi. The message was done specifically by Gio in order to deceive. It just worked a little better than they anticipated.

[pieguyn]

yeah OK, I was following this to some extent and I'm going to set my personal feelings aside for a few minutes (be grateful for this...) and say a few things which I hope should be constructive.

1. if you join a game that is openly advertised as bastard, you forfeit any right to claim "the setup made no sense" or "the setup wasn't mafia" or "I don't think I had any way of winning this"; it's an openly bastard game, of course there's going to be shit in there that will fall way outside of your expectations and I'm of the opinion that if you play a bastard game you should not have any expectation that the game should be "fair" or balanced, you should largely just play it for fun and if you win, that's cool too. since apparently there was a lot of issue with this: this is distinct from just not playing to win, obviously yeah you should but it is possible to play to win and enjoy the game normally while still not having any expectation of actually winning the game.

2. I think the idea behind this setup was actually pretty cool (even though I think it needs a few modifications in order to work, which I'll get into below), and I think the scum team size scaling based on # players left was predictable too, I figured that out and I wasn't even in the game nor do I have any flavor knowledge at all.

3. that said, I think if you're going to make a setup like this where it's really easy for players to feel cheesed, 22p is too large and makes players experience that feeling for too long. I think something like a 16p or 18p would likely provide the best length for this sort of setup since it remains a larger game while still not requiring the very high level of commitment required from an ultra-large (>21p ended up being 10 game days) game.

4. also, I think the point about town not being rewarded for lynching "scum" early/scum having no advantage for surviving longer due to the scaling scum team size has merit, and that's why I think a setup based around the principle this was based around is absolute hell to balance *if* you try to implement a workaround for this - it is very difficult to find a single scum player, and if you implement a more gradual scale then it's likely just from a pure odds POV that by the time you finally get around to lynching the scum player you might wake up in LYLO the next day. to work around this, I probably would just bite the bullet, ignore that, and make the initial scum team size constant (if you're doing 22p 4 players, probably 3 players for 18p? this is mostly based on intuition, but again, I also don't think people should go into openly bastard games with the expectation that things need to be perfectly fair and balanced), or maybe constant until the first potential LYLO or pre-LYLO day, decrease once and then constant again (just to make it a bit easier).

all of this is opinion and I don't really know why I'm posting it, I guess I just like talking about setup design.

[SirCakez]

GIOVANNI THE ABSOLUTE LEGEND

Thanks for modding this mess of a game Skull! I had a lot of fun for the most part. The setup was extremely creative and I don't think there's ever been anything like it on MS before. Sorry that your last game on MS ended with so many problems ;(
Borderlands Mafia is still my favorite game of all time. I'll miss your games!

[Pine]

Holy shit this game. There was just no way I could grok this game as a replacement, but as an occasional observer, it was epic.

[Accountant]

I couldn't keep up with this game but Skulduggery is a good person and shame on whoever mistreated them.

[Almost50]

THANK YOU SKULL for inviting me. I -for one- have/had absolutely no complaints whatsoever about the setup (i was a bastard game, so anything goes).

The one thing I REALLY feel sorry about is hat YOU (skull) feel bad and decided to quit modding. Since I enjoy thinking outside the box I very much enjoy playing non-standard setups, and when these are combined with favour it's even more enjoyable to me (grated, I didn't know much about the flavour, but that's what Google search is for).

Once again, THANK YOU for yet another great game, and sorry to see you leave. If you EVER decide to come back for even ONE more game, please make sure you contact me to see if I could play.

[Creature]

I support grades of bastardry.

Btw, Giovanni was pretty obvious even before he became scum.

[massive]

I'm kinda sad I got replaced; I'd like to believe that I wouldn't have gotten lynched where Creeps did (there were requests for choice backup / info that he just couldn't provide, even though I'd crumbed my role AND every recipient of Temmie Flakes confirmed in the game).

I also asked Skull for access to the dead thread once Creeps was lynched and never got an answer; I became convinced that the killer wasn't actually in the game but the Riverman was ferrying people into a scum group that was in the dead thread, and THEY were doing the killing.

.. that's actually pretty clever of me, I might have to run that game.

[Gamma Emerald]

I was in a game where the spec thread thought they were doing the kills but they weren't actually, they just were dead on with who was killed

[Firebringer]

This wasn't mafia lol

[Firebringer]

1. if you join a game that is openly advertised as bastard, you forfeit any right to claim "the setup made no sense" or "the setup wasn't mafia" or "I don't think I had any way of winning this"; it's an openly bastard game, of course there's going to be shit in there that will fall way outside of your expectations and I'm of the opinion that if you play a bastard game you should not have any expectation that the game should be "fair" or balanced, you should largely just play it for fun and if you win, that's cool too. since apparently there was a lot of issue with this: this is distinct from just not playing to win, obviously yeah you should but it is possible to play to win and enjoy the game normally while still not having any expectation of actually winning the game.

You are so wrong I lost a bit of respect pie.

[Firebringer]

I don't know what constructive criticism to give for this game regarding setup or anything.
Anyone who read my posts clearly knows I didn't have fun.

I will say if you are going to mod a game. You should try to be professional while modding.
Not try to start a fight with your players.

Skull felt personally insulted with my issues with their game so messaged me insults and then force replaced me.
Not going to act like a saint but my frustrations were with the game not them

Skull your job is to be the mature one in the game.
If you can't handle someone disliking your game you probably shouldn't mod.

/end rant

[Gamma Emerald]

well skull is leaving the site so *shrugs*

[PeregrineV]

@SKull

- Great game! It was frustrating for me, but not because of the modding. All those townflips were disheartening, but as part of the setup design I totally love it!!
Thanks for letting me play, and if you want to stick around and mod another game, count me as /pre-in.

[zakk]

Bahhhh I got jailed but killed by a strongman

Just my luck




I <3 u Skull

[zakk]

@SKull

- Thanks for letting me play, and if you want to stick around and mod another game, count me as /pre-in.

Same!!

[Ankamius]

Fun fact... me claiming to have a strongman kill was an accident. I'm kind of glad nobody picked up on that, although that was the big reason I never full claimed.

[callforjudgement]

I also asked Skull for access to the dead thread once Creeps was lynched and never got an answer; I became convinced that the killer wasn't actuallyin the game but the Riverman was ferrying people into a scum group that was in the dead thread, and THEY were doing the killing.

.. that's actually pretty clever of me, I might have to run that game.

Your biggest issue there will be working out what town has to do to win. I'd recommend having a scumgroup with no kill that's inside the main game thread, that town win by eliminating, and another scumgroup (with either the same or a different win condition) in the dead thread that performs the kills. You'll also need to make sure that kills happen before any people in your secret scumgroup die; one way to bypass the issue is for the first player who dies to automatically be recruited.

[MathBlade]

Thanks, Skull.

Congrats to the scumteam. Maxous had me fooled all the way up to my death, props to Math for catching him.

Thanks! I've realized I'm like a pendulum...I'm either really really right or really really wrong. Just gotta work on being right more often than wrong.

[SnarkySnowman]

I enjoyed this game and was kinda sad to be replaced. Followed it up to the end though, reading through the mechanics / roles I really didn't expect that, but still really neat / nice job skull!