Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[Heartless]

That's potentially three out of four scum nightkilled, and their only defense is vanillaizing the 2x vigilante?

well... yeah
not to mention not being awful and avoid getting scumread. that'd probably go a pretty long way in not getting vigged.

Still.
You're positing this passed a review with the possibility of:
-One scum lynched D1.
-The scum's nightkill failing thanks to one of two sources (AT MINIMUM--not even including the possibility of scum killing themselves).
-The vig shooting scum.
-Maybe the rogue crew being able to shoot scum, depending on the exact mechanic there.
-A second scum lynched D2 from AT LEAST ONE SOURCE a guilty (with the possibility of that being GAME OVER RIGHT THEN AND THERE if scum shot themselves/the rogue crew could shoot N1).
-The vig shooting the last scum N2.

...And you think that would pass as balanced against just a 2x Vanillaizer?

yes

and it's b/c if that scenario that you just described actually happens, that means scum played badly enough to deserve the humiliating loss

it's not the game designer's job to shield shitty scum teams.

[Titus]

titus is a pats hater?

you learn something new every day

Yeah, I don't like cheaters.

[Heartless]

and i also happen to know RC isn't averse to swingy roles/setups either

[Drunken Piper]

I am a fucking jack of all trades.

If you think that:
-Town 2x vigilante
-Whatever the rogue crew has (including at least one kill ability as per Klingoncelt's death and their word)
-Jailkeeper
-JOAT (tracker, the Pine guilty power, some third power which fitting the other two would presumably be investigative)
-JOAT (redirector, deflector, rolestop)
...Plus anything else we have unclaimed (in addition to all the VT abilities, which aren't exactly weak!)...
...Is all town?

this..this is the problem I have with
the amount of claimed town power, seems like a myth.

[Nero Cain]

...And you think that would pass as balanced against just a 2x Vanillaizer?

no one is arguing this.

[Titus]

I am a fucking jack of all trades.

If you think that:
-Town 2x vigilante
-Whatever the rogue crew has (including at least one kill ability as per Klingoncelt's death and their word)
-Jailkeeper
-JOAT (tracker, the Pine guilty power, some third power which fitting the other two would presumably be investigative)
-JOAT (redirector, deflector, rolestop)
...Plus anything else we have unclaimed (in addition to all the VT abilities, which aren't exactly weak!)...
...Is all town?

this..this is the problem I have with
the amount of claimed town power, seems like a myth.

And we only figure out balance by lynching scum.

If Pine is a strongest, (a goon flip for instance) then scum are in the PRs most likely.

If Pine is a weak one, that's not a necessity. Based on my reads by play, I would say the PRs are true so scum buddy like no one's business.

[Drunken Piper]

TOWN-
Heartless
BBmolla
NULL-Nero Cain, TheWayItEnds, SirCakez,
Infinity 324
ɀefiend, mastina
Aj the Epic, PeregrineV
Titus
SCUM-

EDIT:

TOWN-
Heartless
BBmolla
Nero Cain
NULL- TheWayItEnds, SirCakez,
Infinity 324, mastina
ɀefiend, PeregrineV
Aj the Epic,
Titus
SCUM

And how is Mastina so high up the lisT?

TOWN-
Heartless
BBmolla
NULL-Nero Cain, TheWayItEnds, SirCakez, Infinity 324
ɀefiend, mastina
Aj the Epic, PeregrineV
Titus
SCUM-

Question.

What places zefiend so high in this list?
For that matter, while I've certainly seen other players give reasons for why Titus is scum, I don't recall any from you. I can understand your AJ/PV reads (even if I disagree), and I know where you're coming from on me, but I don't remember why Titus would be your top scumread, and I also don't understand why zefiend is that high.

reads man reads, it is funny how a "high"
position is the scum side of null

(sigh)

Entry Titus: "nonsense posting" ....."either is not reading, or is refusing to read"...."statements like ("being town is so fustrating") makes me think scum" .."seems opportunistic"..."leaning scum[/i]" )

if you two dont like that answer, then, I say it is a gut read.
if you dont like THAT answer, too bad, I dont have what you need.

[Nero Cain]

Once Pine used his role there'd be pressure on him and a very big chance that he gets lynched.

Yes, but my point there is: how would the scum know that Pine would use his power?

Your counterpoint?
"Heartless was the rogue leader, and posted a very public list, which scum would know. Therefore, scum knew that Pine would use his power, and therefore, you knew to bus him".

Yet you're refusing to address the very simple chronology problem with that.
Heartless posted the rogue leader list in the 1k mark, thereabouts. You yourself admit this, yes? (Because, well. It's in the fucking thread.) At this point, scum would know that there were no scum in the rogue crew. Sure! That's true enough!

Seems like there's no problem...

...Except I was pushing for Pine's lynch since the 500s.

So again.
You're not addressing my basic point. How the fuck would I know that Pine was going to use his power,

at the time that I started pushing Pine

?
I wouldn't.

You're pushing a narrative which simply could never have actually happened.

To use your own words?

I have a very very hard time seeing someone of your experience and understanding fight tooth and nail against something that is easily proven.

You're fighting against something easily shown.
I'm stating the facts, as they are in the thread.
You're stating a narrative, which relies on assumptions which have been shown to be inaccurate.
The only difference is that I know you're capable of doing this as town and in fact it's the very infuriating thing which lets me know you actually are.

If my original argument was that Pine was only getting pushed b/c it looked like him/other scum weren't being included in the hood then yeah you'd have a point.

My thing has been that Pine's role outs him using anti-town action and it would put heat on him thus he makes sense as a bus/distance from.

I've been debating whether or not the mod would put an automatic scum role like that.

Though if he is scum then Mastin would know his role and be pushing that

.

Given that Pine's role basically confirmed him as scum it would make plenty of sense as a bus.

and there are others.

TBF, I don't think there's any defense against my paranoia/point that Pine would make sense as a scum push so all this "but how would scum know he'd use his power" "but I was pushing him before Heartless made their list!" and my favorite one "Pine would ony make sense as a bus if the scumteam were POWERFUL!" seem pretty scummy.

[Nero Cain]

I assume something really bad is currently happening if Titus is saying something I agree with. Maybe she's distancing from you...idk.

[Nero Cain]

I assume something really bad is currently happening

like a nun getting mugged or poachers killing baby seals

[SirCakez]

That's also a good point about Molla scum that I didn't realize

what point?

That his claimed role doesn't fit with the power levels of what we've seen

That's also a good point about Molla scum that I didn't realize

So why the fuck aren't you voting there?

Because like I've said he's not my strongest scumread?

[Heartless]

so according to your theory, scum have vanillaizer, jk, AND the manipulative joat

or... what? do you think aj is completely making up the jk claim?

b/c mastin's theory partly relies on aj being town ya' know

[Heartless]

i have this really intense desire to vote cake now..........

[Heartless]

VOTE: sircakez

[Nero Cain]

vote:ɀefiend

[Infinity 324]

And again: what kind of scum power existed to counter those?
The night-2 PR game doesn't count because all PRs that game were night 2 (and it was arguably not a Normal game for that reason alone but I digress). I'm talking about the JK/BP/BG/Doctor combos.

Did they have a form of strongman?
Or a form of roleblocker?

We don't know what power scum has in this game, so that's irrevelant. Sure, the scum probably had some power to counter that. (Idk why it matters since 2 protective roles by themselves make for a weak town, but ok)

Scum could have a strongman

and

a roleblocker this game for all we know. I mean, we know they had a vanillaizer...

[Infinity 324]

I am a fucking jack of all trades.

If you think that:
-Town 2x vigilante
-Whatever the rogue crew has (including at least one kill ability as per Klingoncelt's death and their word)
-Jailkeeper
-JOAT (tracker, the Pine guilty power, some third power which fitting the other two would presumably be investigative)
-JOAT (redirector, deflector, rolestop)
...Plus anything else we have unclaimed (in addition to all the VT abilities, which aren't exactly weak!)...
...Is all town?

I don't know what to tell you.

Because no. Just fucking no. That's not a town composition which would ever make it past a competent review team, unless the scumteam's WEAKEST PR was Pine's 2x-Vanillaizer (which is a pretty damn strong role!).

BBMolla's role is a scum role. I guarantee it.

Someone else verify this, I see it as plausible...would you need 4 scum PRs to counter 5 town PRs?

[Infinity 324]

zefiend's 2615

People keep saying this, but I don't see how "cakez defended and townread pine" is a legit case.

[Infinity 324]

i would be one of the people she wouldn't know what to tell.

assuming all the PR claims are town, i think the setup is WELL within range of balance-able esp if fire went with a scumteam size of 4

Ok thank you.

[Infinity 324]

Titus, I'm willing to talk to you if you're willing to accept you might be wrong on me.

Sure I am willing to accept the possibility I am wrong on you. Right now, you are so "go with the flow" and spammish, it blocks out everyone else. My biggest issue is you are in the way.

Is anyone saying your posts bring new insight? No. Are they doing things to help others develop reads? No. Your posts are useless for the most part.

If you are town, I need you to talk less but say more opinions to engage with.

Titus, I am trying my absolute best to make posts that progress the game. I'm not really sure what else you want from me.

In terms of reads, can you talk about your cakez and molla reads?

[Infinity 324]

vote:ɀefiend

You little shit

[PeregrineV]

I am a fucking jack of all trades.

If you think that:
-Town 2x vigilante
-Whatever the rogue crew has (including at least one kill ability as per Klingoncelt's death and their word)
-Jailkeeper
-JOAT (tracker, the Pine guilty power, some third power which fitting the other two would presumably be investigative)
-JOAT (redirector, deflector, rolestop)
...Plus anything else we have unclaimed (in addition to all the VT abilities, which aren't exactly weak!)...
...Is all town?

this..this is the problem I have with
the amount of claimed town power, seems like a myth.

Probably not, since each VT also seems to have a power.

[Firebringer]

.

[PeregrineV]

VC

Vc

Why do you toy with my emotions like this!!

[Nero Cain]

vote:ɀefiend

You little shit

rude