STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Titus]

Yeah, I really should've gone with Peridot as a plant in the CGs rather than a neutral that can align one way or the other.
Still, I like the idea for the CGs, and glad I got to run it.

It was a good idea. Masons tend to be auto sheep, which your mechanic changed that by having them do a survival mechanic.

I have an idea on this to spin, which we can talk about because it has kinks.

[grapes]

oh hey what a fun game this was

[Varsoon]

Of course. While I can't run this sort of thing again any time in the foreseeable future, I highly encourage other mods to take and run with anything in the setup that they found interesting or fun to build around

[Varsoon]

oh hey what a fun game this was

Weren't you Lapis in the first game

[Steven Quartz]

@Titus Yea, this is me. Still, that wasn't enough. I feel that it meant nothing in the end. My efforts were to get Crystal Gems to win and that failed.....

@RR I am sorry. I was initially mad and you and I admit that freely, but you are a nice person and so I got over it pretty quickly. The one thing I am sad about is that you robbed me of opportunity to play the game, but since that opportunity would have been taken away anyways via my ban, that might have been for the best, since I was spared from having to watch someone else in my slot. Also, I can relate to your struggles, because I had similar struggles in this game due to Firebringer. I appreciate defending me against him. <3 Maybe we can hydra sometime if you'd like.

@Centi Geronimo!

@Crystal Gems No hard feelings, okay?

[grapes]

Amethyst actually

By the way, spent that whole lylo thinking the gems were scum LOL

[SirCakez]

1) The SC wagon. This was a bit of shitshow. We were prepared to step in and keep SC from being lynched, however his posting, for the most part, never really dissuaded anyone in and of itself. Even though we knew his loss would be a major blow to us, especially given that it would remove any uncertainty from the DGB/KC situation(even though somehow it didn't....), we couldn't risk throwing good money after bad, as it were, and risking our slots who were decently positioned.

Yeah I was utter garbage this game
Even though we ultimately lost, you should be proud of how far you got.

You were not shit. I had to zoom tunnel you and almost lost you. You caught Farside in your web and set up a huge distraction.

I mean yeah I fooled two or three people but getting lynched day 1 as scum is just bad period. Especially with the role I had.

q.q

[Firebringer]

You fooled me cakes you fooled me.

[grapes]

You too! We should be competing for the wooden spoon trophy or something!!

oh please it's not even a competition

[Cerberus v666]

Titus.

I know, as the winning team, it's hard to admit that the game was fundamentally imbalanced in your favor, but seriously.

What about THAT was balanced?

The only scum that was even close to the power level of ANY ONE of the gems was DGB, and she was the traitor and couldn't be coordinated with.

Scum had up to 3 extra kills, two of which were EXTREMELY gated and untargetable(we were only able to trigger the cluster because we devoted every resource we could to getting stress as high as possible, so we could enable town powers that we hoped would drop stress low enough to enable us using it...and this was with a D1 lynch on a member of our team), and one of which would have never come into play if town had just listened to the mod.

Town had more kills than the scum had access to extra kills, with less strongest restrictions generally, and those kills were twice as likely to hit scum as they normally would be. The scum teams protections were okay, but those empowering things that varsoon mentioned town had could have easily benefited those shooting at them.

The gems(I haven't fully read their roles yet because I'm mobile snd things are cut off) had protective powers on 4/5 of their members, combined with passive bodyguarding between them when fused, and two events that made it impossible to kill one of them.

There's more. There's loads more.

Don't argue that this was balanced.

[Cerberus v666]

@Yume/SQ: I'm really sorry about that. I explained my reasoning for killing you in that first post I made in postgame, it just didn't accompish the goals we wanted at all. :/

[Creature]

idk, if there was one extra scum, it would look scumsided.

Maybe three scum dying pretty early sorta screwed things up.

[Firebringer]

@Cerberus I think varsoon was saying you guys treated CG too much like conf town so they became conf town which hugely put them in towns favor as looking like actually masonry when they could easily be viewed as anti town faction that was detrimental to their win.

In essence if they played differently the game could have been more balanced but ehhh...not sure

[Steven Quartz]

@Yume/SQ: I'm really sorry about that. I explained my reasoning for killing you in that first post I made in postgame, it just didn't accompish the goals we wanted at all. :/

That's okay. Well, wanna hydra sometime? I feel that with your logic and my intuition, we can become a juggernaut. <3

We can be Lapis and co or something like that.

And speaking of Lapis, I love her. <3

[SirCakez]

tbh at this point no one should be expecting Varsoon's games to be very balanced
No offense to your game designing at all Varsoon, I just mean your setups are always way too crazy to balance for every possibility.

[Varsoon]

idk, if there was one extra scum, it would look scumsided.

Maybe three scum dying pretty early sorta screwed things up.

Scum losing some of their strongest members early really made it an uphill battle.
If anything, this game serves as a testament to RR's scum-play.

But yeah.
It's the sort of thing that I feel was hard to know before going in. I had assumptions of my own that proved contrary to how the setup rendered. That's likely to happen in a lot of my setups, tbh. Sometimes I get lucky and it works out a la SaGa Frontier--other times, I Bloodborne it right up.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerberus I think varsoon was saying you guys treated CG too much like conf town so they became conf town which hugely put them in towns favor as looking like actually masonry when they could easily be viewed as anti town faction that was detrimental to their win.

In essence if they played differently the game could have been more balanced but ehhh...not sure

We didn't though? The town leaders all decided they were definitely town, as soon as a chink in that appeared we attempted to raise paranoia, we spent two early kills on them in hopes of revealing their redacted win con(which we believed wasn't pro town). Like, I don't know what else we could have done. If we had decided not to shoot them, in spite of haVing a role that was DESIGNED to go gem hunting and made our weak team much stronger if we succeeded, we just end up with more unlychables than scum.

Like, at no point in the game did we have a numbers advantage on the gems+IC.

[Varsoon]

You keep grouping the gems with town, but they're not town.
It doesn't matter if there's 6 gems, 2 scum, and 1 town left.
You get the lynch on the 1 town and you win.
Use your unstoppable kills on the town ICs to ensure it goes smoothly.

[Titus]

@Cerb, I'd rather table balance discussion and get your feedback on my play. I do think some of the balance issues, assuming there were any, were exacerbated by your event firing with your plan, rather than giving me a GS shot.

[Firebringer]

In post 12637, Firebringer wrote:
@Cerberus I think varsoon was saying you guys treated CG too much like conf town so they became conf town which hugely put them in towns favor as looking like actually masonry when they could easily be viewed as anti town faction that was detrimental to their win.

In essence if they played differently the game could have been more balanced but ehhh...not sure


We didn't though? The town leaders all decided they were definitely town, as soon as a chink in that appeared we attempted to raise paranoia, we spent two early kills on them in hopes of revealing their redacted win con(which we believed wasn't pro town). Like, I don't know what else we could have done. If we had decided not to shoot them, in spite of haVing a role that was DESIGNED to go gem hunting and made our weak team much stronger if we succeeded, we just end up with more unlychables than scum.

I think you killing them specifically was the huge mistake.

Leave them alone and when town is looking around going "hey why these gems alive" natural paranoia will kick in.

Kill the town leaders not gems.

[Cerberus v666]

I know, BUT there was no reason to play it that way, AND we had a role telling us "Go kill gems, it's good for you!"

Even in that best case scenario, the game ends from our victory before the cgs removal matters.

And in the scenario where there are loads of gems and few town and scum, the chances of us escaping a lynch with the collective attention of 4-5 players on us was even less likely.

The gems "weakness" was one we were mechanically told didn't exist, essentially.

[Cerberus v666]

In post 12637, Firebringer wrote:
@Cerberus I think varsoon was saying you guys treated CG too much like conf town so they became conf town which hugely put them in towns favor as looking like actually masonry when they could easily be viewed as anti town faction that was detrimental to their win.

In essence if they played differently the game could have been more balanced but ehhh...not sure


We didn't though? The town leaders all decided they were definitely town, as soon as a chink in that appeared we attempted to raise paranoia, we spent two early kills on them in hopes of revealing their redacted win con(which we believed wasn't pro town). Like, I don't know what else we could have done. If we had decided not to shoot them, in spite of haVing a role that was DESIGNED to go gem hunting and made our weak team much stronger if we succeeded, we just end up with more unlychables than scum.

I think you killing them specifically was the huge mistake.

Leave them alone and when town is looking around going "hey why these gems alive" natural paranoia will kick in.

Kill the town leaders not gems.

I disagree. As I said...they lied to conftown, were caught doing it, and nobody cared. No other situation exists where town would be more likely to go after them.

[Creature]

Rolelist

Public Mason
Public Mason
Public Mason
Public Mason
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

Scum wins if they take half the majority or if all VTs are dead.

Wonder how would this work.

[Cerberus v666]

@Titus: whether you or mastin won was immaterial. We chose mastin purely for the sake of consistency in the plan I had outlined to you and yume.

[MathBlade]

Rolelist

Public Mason
Public Mason
Public Mason
Public Mason
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

Scum wins if they take half the majority or if all VTs are dead.

Wonder how would this work.

You keep grouping the gems with town, but they're not town.
It doesn't matter if there's 6 gems, 2 scum, and 1 town left.
You get the lynch on the 1 town and you win.
Use your unstoppable kills on the town ICs to ensure it goes smoothly.

Yep. I tried explaining the same to Titus too no dice.

:/