Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[mastina]

I don't see a strong case against him other than his role.

This I need to do.
I can't do it in my patented "case without a case" style. Like, normally, I would just put a paragraph or two, maybe three, describing to you in words why a player is scum. That would be my case. I don't often go through the time and effort of actually bringing up the quotes, the links, to support it, because in general I assume that a player will iso BBMolla to see if the things I am saying of him are true. Basically, I'd normally give you my interpretation of his actions, leave you to iso him, and then you would then determine if you think my interpretation of his actions holds water.

...I can't find the words to do that for Molla. It's more of a, "just kinda needs to be shown", sort of thing. I can't say "just fucking iso him", because I know it's not immediately obvious upon isoing him. But I promise you: the case against BBMolla is far from just his role. It's that he's done scum stuff the whole game. The way he went about D1 in particular. It was bad every step of the way. The most egregious part being his reaction to the Pine guilty.

Remember how I said that there was something I wanted to say about the lynch on Pine?

Basically, what I wanted to say was this:
Scum are infinitely more likely to have had this reaction to the guilty.
They start off questioning the guilty, trying to see where it comes from, what sort of validity it has, trying to see if it can be talked out of. And when they determine that it can't be, they vote the doomed scumbuddy.

That's a really crappy explanation of the concept, I need to go and explain exactly what I mean in more detail, but one of BBMolla's sins was that he did exactly that: he tried to argue against the Pine guilty, until he understood that it was not something which could be fought against. At that point, he sheepishly joined the wagon.

God I wish I wasn't so busy right now. I need to explain this better, absolutely NEED to, but I'm not sure if I have the ability to, and even if I do, the time to.

[mastina]

do you trust me+tth's judgment?

On zefiend, yes.
But that's our common ground.
If we lynch our common ground today, we get to do a whole song and dance of disagreeing, of diverging, tomorrow, and that won't be fun, because both of us will want credit for zefiend, both saying, "You trusted me yesterday, why not today?!?", because it was our fucking common ground. I've held a suspicion on the zefiend slot since late D1. I don't need to tell you he's scum, just like you don't need to tell me he's scum. But again. My concern here isn't today, in lynching scum.

It's future days, in lynching scum.

I want to lynch scum in the future.

I don't think lynching zefiend today will allow us to do that.
It'll be a scum lynch, yes! That will be a good thing, yes. But it's not the scum lynch I think we need.

I don't know how to better convey this. Basically. zefiend as scum tells us nothing we don't already know. We know he's scum. He can be lynched at any time. We lose nothing from lynching him, and lynching him is better than nothing and better than a mislynch. But we also gain nothing. That's my problem. I see you talking about zefiend being scum. I see Infinity talking about zefiend being scum.

But who else are you scumreading?
Who else do you think is scum?

Because without a clear direction there, lynching zefiend doesn't offer much, now, does it?

I suppose you could say, my posting today is mostly focused on getting it so that we have a clear picture of what to do after today. A clear picture of how to lynch scum consistently and constantly. Rather than scatter to the wind chaotically.

[mastina]

I just don't think mastin would draw so much attention to herself and act so confident in her reads when she knows she'll get lynched if she gets it wrong too many times.

Actually, you'd be surprised the shit I can get away with when I'm scum.

There's a reason I don't bus my scumbuddies.

It's because I can get away with being wrong on them.

I can mislynch town after town, and not take the fall for it. I shift the blame elsewhere successfully.
If the town manages to take out a scumbuddy of mine, I will fake a similar but opposite shock in the flip being wrong, fake a recalibration, and push reads which are

even more

wrong than before. My reads get stretchier and stretchier as they are shown to be more and more wrong, and yet my confidence level doesn't diminish because confidence is a great tool for charisma, and ultimately as scum the tool you need isn't good arguments but rather good charisma: a cult of personality, so to speak, to carry you through the game.

So yes. I would in fact be willing to draw attention to myself by acting confident in reads I know are wrong, because I know I would avoid the lynch even after these were shown to be wrong. The skill you need as scum is not to avoid the spotlight, but rather, to make the time in the spotlight allow you to push through a lynch on town. (I mean, that's actually true for town, too. Town come into the spotlight. When there, they need to highlight scumreads in order to push through a lynch on scum. But it's a skill I'm REALLY good at as scum, and still at least somewhat-competent at as town.)

Also if I start to make typos and typing things which are nonsensible, it's because that my eyes are drooping asleep right now and I'm entering tiredposting mode of sorts. I need to get caught up in the game, but I'm a little bit asleep already, head out htf the game, so I'm beginning to lose my focus and that means my thoughts aren[t going to make as much sense. This would also be one of the reasons why attempting to make a BBMolla case at the moment would be a Really Bad Idea, as by attempting to do so I would be writing sutf that would be gibberish even to me by next morning.

Apologies if it gets really bad, it is 400 AM right now and that means my coherency is going downhill fast. I should be able to get caught up in the game relatively fast though and think I can beat the worst of it. If you think I'm not addressing something I should, it's probably because I'mm too exhausted to bring forth a proper response tonight mostly on Molla but I suppose also elsewhere. Just ask me about it tomorrow. And also, ask to translate any of my incoherent posting and I'll do what I can to translate tiredposting me into me past slpeepy time,

[mastina]

mastina, plz vote zefiend

The moment I stop voting zefined is the moment we stop getting useful information from the day.
We're not at that point yet, and so I'm not ging to vote zefiend.

I've no particular need to be on the lynch of a scumwagon prematurely. I'll kjin when needed. I'll join if I feel like it too, I guess, but since I don't feel like it and actually think koinging would be counterproductive, I'm not going to. Sorry.

[mastina]

I think one of {molla, cakez, mastin} is scum. Zefiend is another scum.

Where you go wriong is assuming in only one scum. It's two. Is there anything in particular I can do (aside from casing Molla) which I can do to convince you it's BOTH of them, not just ONE of them?

[mastina]

(Incidentally I am SO fucking glad I don;t have to mod at this time, would absolutely be nightmarish. Reason why the most mod errors were made at around this time. Actually, I think they started at 3 AM butstill it was around this time that my mind shut down which is rather disastrous for a mod especially in a more advanced technical game like Gistou was. I can still function well enough to play, because there's nothing I can di worng. I fant vuvk up my playing because I am still saying the stuff I need to say more or less, just with less coherency. But mistakes modding are much easier to maek and muc more costly.)

[mastina]

Yes, I get it it that town can miss things but I think its suspicious that she did.

I didn't miss shit.
The point was simply irrelevant. i saw Heartless's post declaring their rogue leader intentions but it still doesn't work it no your narrative. You're insisting on a timeline of events that couldn't possibly have actually have happened.

[mastina]

I generally skim your posts because I hate your self applied restriction with a passion

Given molla;s apparent issue with people not talking to him, this is acout as close to a flat-out scumclaim as you're ever getting.

[mastina]

Also I'm full JK and locked Cakez two nights in a row. This was said in the claim.

VOTE AJ

I probably dont need to read anymore,
seeing I didnt get a "no result" on cakez, you whore.
I will continue reading, to see what this is to see.
but unless i was redirected, the next scum has been caught, who wants to thank me?

In case it hasn't been brought up yet, you can just as me about this because I know what roles do what.
Roleblocker: targets a player. THAT PLAYER has actions fail.
Rolestopper: targets a player. All actions TARGETING that player fail.
Jailkeeper: targets a player. THAT PLAYER has actions fail, but KILLS targeting that player fail.
Alien, or sometimes called Jailer: targets a player. THAT PLAYER has actions fail, AND has all actions TARGETING that player fail.

So you would get a result on SirCakez because the jailkeep doesn't block you; it just blocked SirCakez.
Also, for what it's worth; AJ the Epic blocking SirCakez is yet more reason why BBMolla is a threat above zefiend and him. SirCakez if scum has had his roe stopped two nights in a row. That mitigates his presence here. Whereas BBMolla has had free reign.

[mastina]

[mastin enters....so many words"...."will people judge me if I dont read everything?"...."ugh...eyes glazing over"

I would probably be more angry about this if I wasn't feeling so tired at the moment. (Tiredness tends to voerwelm all other emotions, as the urge to sleep slowly builds up. Other emotions are antithesis of tiredness, as anger thends to inspire adrenaline as I fumei n agner about game events, but tiredness if strong enough blocks that release as to preserve itself and force me to be bed.)

I have said plenty of game content and myu posts are not long and not hard to follow. Nor am I particularly a samposter. I have an average post length and an aerage post amount among players. Maybe slightly higher tier, but not high in either regardL not wallposting, not spamposting. There's people higher than me in both and that means you can read me and what I say becayse you've got no problems with them so shut up and suck ut, read it, and then get a grip.

[mastina]

Falling asleep now.
Tink I got everything anyway, but 430, prody elling me that I really need to go to sleep right now. I've read up to my posting, at least skimmed it so I don't think Im missing anything of notem let me now if I did htough.

[mastina]

Mod:

Losing power literally as I'm typing this. Fuck. This game was what I was about to do, but, uh, yeah. About to be V/LA indeterminable amount of time due to power loss.

[mastina]

...Well, haven't lost power yet.
But V/LA still applies since I could lose it any second.

I could try to catch up now, but I'd prefer "wait for the storm I'm in to pass and catch up on everything in one go", rather than "start catching up, lose power midway through, most likely RIGHT in the middle of typing a big fucking huge long post, and then have to wait HOURS if not DAYS before resuming and THEN catching up EVEN MORE". So, see you...probably tomorrow, if not, on Tuesday. I should know if I lose power by tomorrow. If I do, it'll take until the repair for me to come back (which might be on Tuesday). If I don't, I'll be back tomorrow.

[mastina]

The bad news is, I did indeed lose power last night.
The good news is, it was back by morning.
I don't think there's danger in losing it again, so I'm here. This might take me a while. Kinda have to...get back in the 'mood' for this game. (It's...hard to explain. Short answer, I have bipolar disorder, makes things easy for me to fall out of synch with a game and kinda become a little apathetic. Long answer, too long for this post, but basically I sometimes have a passion, a drive, a very strong energy where I am confident, the euphoric high; the contrast is that sometimes I get detached, that in spite of me KNOWING I need to pay attention to a game I neglect it anyway, make excuses for not being there, and put it off for as long as humanly possible. It's a bad habit which I know I have and try to break it when I see it coming, and that's what I'm doing now.)

[mastina]

(To explain what that means in more detail: I'm deliberately diverting attention to other tasks. Leaving the thread to check PTs. Logging out and into another account to check PMs and/or PTs. Checking the speakeasy for any new posts of interest. Checking other areas of the site for new content. Mish-mash, even though I don't even play there. MD. Site Ideas. News. Help!, even though I have nothing in there I'd need. It's all an avoidance mechanism. I'm deliberately avoiding tackling this game because part of me doesn't want to. This is something people who know me well have seen before. I've been lynched for it many times. I've flaked from hydras for this very reason. Something made me, in those times, just...not want to be there. So I wasn't there. I wasn't really intending on explaining this, but then I went and actually DID those distractions, realized I was doing them, and forced myself to type this. This, not really something for others to read. Everyone who matters pretty much knows this to be true of me already. They understand it's part of who I am--not a part they particularly like, mind you, but a part that they know exist and are willing to accept anyway as one of my myriad of flaws.

No, this is being typed for ME, because by saying shit like this, I'm effectively making a contract of sorts, a promise. I am reminding myself of these things, and telling myself to overcome them.)

[mastina]

I once played in a mini normal with a full town doctor and a full town bodyguard. That was a long time ago, but still. More recently, I played in one with 2 night 2 doctors, all the PRs were night 2 in that game but still. I've played in one a JK and a 1-shot BP. All

mini normals

. My point is that it's 100% possible to have a jk and a 1-shot rolestop in a large theme.

And again: what kind of scum power existed to counter those?
The night-2 PR game doesn't count because all PRs that game were night 2 (and it was arguably not a Normal game for that reason alone but I digress). I'm talking about the JK/BP/BG/Doctor combos.

Did they have a form of strongman?
Or a form of roleblocker?

Because I am a NRG member. I'm pretty sure you're mentioning some games I was a fucking reviewer on. And while the scum don't need an answer to every possible protection...they do need an answer to strong town power roles like doctor and jailkeeper.

The JOAT with the rolestop, with the town jailkeeper, simply makes more sense as a scum role.

[mastina]

if you convince me molla is scum I will vote there. Good enough?

It

would

be...if your name was Heartless.

[mastina]

I am a fucking jack of all trades.

If you think that:
-Town 2x vigilante
-Whatever the rogue crew has (including at least one kill ability as per Klingoncelt's death and their word)
-Jailkeeper
-JOAT (tracker, the Pine guilty power, some third power which fitting the other two would presumably be investigative)
-JOAT (redirector, deflector, rolestop)
...Plus anything else we have unclaimed (in addition to all the VT abilities, which aren't exactly weak!)...
...Is all town?

I don't know what to tell you.

Because no. Just fucking no. That's not a town composition which would ever make it past a competent review team, unless the scumteam's WEAKEST PR was Pine's 2x-Vanillaizer (which is a pretty damn strong role!).

BBMolla's role is a scum role. I guarantee it.

[mastina]

I really do not want to go back and ISO cakez, so maybe I'll ISO you or you can give more reasons why he's scum too? That would be awesome.

Actually, there's better cases than what I could make right now at this very moment on SirCakez. I'd have to go check to find them all, but one which comes to mind immediately is ironically enough, zefiend's 2615. His wording is different. His exact posts he quotes are sometimes different. But much of what he quotes there, and has to say there, is basically what I would be saying. I don't think it means there's only one scum in the group of zefiend/SirCakez (did zefiend even VOTE for SirCakez? I don't remember), but I do think that it's a valid case even with zefiend as a scumread of mine.

You're funny when you're tired

Only

when I'm tired?!?

Well shit.

I need to up my game then.

[mastina]

like fuck man I really think you're town, mastina maybe not (?), but I really believe you are. can we talk about your worries about me and figure this shit out so we don't need to waste a lynch

I find this genuine btw.

Either scum had to risk a broken situation occurring by holding one of their vanillaize shots, or whenever Pine flipped we'd get 3 vanillaized claims for two shots.

This is a good point actually. What do you think mastin?
Another issue I have with the molla!scum narrative is why pine would risk dying before using all his shots given the day1 wagon thing and him joining the rogue crew.

Plus anti's issue of scum having too much power.

What's there to say on the first?
I disagree. I don't think it's indicative of anything.

As for the second: holding onto a vanillaize shot N1 is smart play, not stupid play, because if scum didn't know what roles were in the game and burned through their shots, then they'd be left defenseless against other PRs if Vanillaizer was in fact their only counter. (But, on the other hand, if they have a JOAT with redirect/deflect/rolestop......) By doing the gambit, they might not be able to use the second shot, that much is true. But they wouldn't have a need for more than one shot.

And Vanillaizer + JOAT with redirect/deflect/rolestop for scum's power is just about right if that's the scum's only power in the game. Goon x 2, JOAT with redirect/deflect/rolestop, and 2x Vanillaizer: two roles which are limited in shots, but serve to shut down select elements of the town's power.

And against that, you've got a lot which needs shutting down! Drunken Piper's JOAT. AJ the Epic's jailkeeper. (JK is one of THE strongest town roles when used properly, especially in the lategame.) The 2x vigilante. The rogue crew abilities which apparently ALSO included a vig shot. (Are you going to suggest scum had no defense against being nightkilled? Because, uh, yeah. THREE likely-controlled-by-town vig shots in a game. Half of the mods on-site will give the scumteam a defense against so much as ONE [not the most competent of mods, mind you, since giving scum a counter to a 1x role isn't ideal but I digress], yet alone, THREE.) And dangerous VT powers. (I mean, I know not all VT powers are going to be threats. But ones like Nacho's are actually pretty damn powerful when timed/used appropriately.)

The 2x Vanillaizer simply isn't enough for all of that, especially if you add in the JOAT with redirect/deflect/rolestop as among them.

So I vehemently disagree with setup spec favoring BBMolla as town. Quite the opposite, it's one of the strongest fucking reasons he's scum.

[mastina]

if you don't trust my reads beyond zefiend, i can respect that. and i can see how you have a scumread on molla bc frankly his posting sucks. but i have a very hard time bringing myself to think that fire thought molla's role (as a scum role) would be acceptable w/ ari's role AND that rc would let that through, not to mention i think they would have a hard time balancing molla+pine's powers.

Here's the thing though.
Pine's power was two-shot. It wasn't an unlimited Vanillaizer. He could neutralize a grand total of two people in the game.
And the town has some incredible killing power.
The two-shot vigilante PLUS the rogue crew ability (which is most likely something that'd go to town) is no laughing matter. That's potentially three out of four scum nightkilled, and their only defense is vanillaizing the 2x vigilante? After the vig gets to shoot at least once? (I'm assuming vanillaizing a target the same night they use their action does not negate the action.) And presumably being unable to vanillaize the rogue crew vig shot, unless gifted abilities also get taken away?

That's a weak-ass counter to the known town power. There's an incredible amount of shit they'd be up against. Again, how strong do you think the scum are? If you thought the scumteam was stacked, I could see Molla's power as being town. But if you think the 2x Vanillaizer was one of their stronger roles, then that means the town necessarily cannot be too strong. Simply put, the town with Molla in it IS too strong.

The scum with Molla

aren't

too strong. It places them at perfectly the right amount of power. If I saw a scum PR flip, I would reconsider my stance on Molla--I'll give you that much! But if I see a goon flip, it's proving my point.

Aside from that, if this isn't enough?
Fuck PRs. Judge by play. Do you actually think BBMolla's play is

town

?

Because I do not.

[mastina]

So that is a no on lynching SirCake your scumread for 100+ Mastina posts?

Nope! Quite the opposite. It's a "yes if given the right conditions".
The right conditions aren't right now, but could easily be there!

[mastina]

Once Pine used his role there'd be pressure on him and a very big chance that he gets lynched.

Yes, but my point there is: how would the scum know that Pine would use his power?

Your counterpoint?
"Heartless was the rogue leader, and posted a very public list, which scum would know. Therefore, scum knew that Pine would use his power, and therefore, you knew to bus him".

Yet you're refusing to address the very simple chronology problem with that.
Heartless posted the rogue leader list in the 1k mark, thereabouts. You yourself admit this, yes? (Because, well. It's in the fucking thread.) At this point, scum would know that there were no scum in the rogue crew. Sure! That's true enough!

Seems like there's no problem...

...Except I was pushing for Pine's lynch since the 500s.

So again.
You're not addressing my basic point. How the fuck would I know that Pine was going to use his power,

at the time that I started pushing Pine

?
I wouldn't.

You're pushing a narrative which simply could never have actually happened.

To use your own words?

I have a very very hard time seeing someone of your experience and understanding fight tooth and nail against something that is easily proven.

You're fighting against something easily shown.
I'm stating the facts, as they are in the thread.
You're stating a narrative, which relies on assumptions which have been shown to be inaccurate.
The only difference is that I know you're capable of doing this as town and in fact it's the very infuriating thing which lets me know you actually are.

[mastina]

It stopped because mastin didn't follow up.

Actually, you've got that backwards.

I

followed it through.

Pine/Gin

did not.

[mastina]

TOWN-
Heartless
BBmolla
NULL-Nero Cain, TheWayItEnds, SirCakez, Infinity 324
ɀefiend, mastina
Aj the Epic, PeregrineV
Titus
SCUM-

Question.

What places zefiend so high in this list?
For that matter, while I've certainly seen other players give reasons for why Titus is scum, I don't recall any from you. I can understand your AJ/PV reads (even if I disagree), and I know where you're coming from on me, but I don't remember why Titus would be your top scumread, and I also don't understand why zefiend is that high.

[mastina]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: zefiend

Wasn't this an L-1 vote?

Because I'm pretty sure this is scum bussing here.

[mastina]

Who do you get internet from?

A cable company.
What happens is that anything taking out the power probably also takes out the cable--in fact, it's easier to take out the cable than it is the power.

I'm not sure if the cable requires external power (i.e., power everywhere), or just internal power (that is, my house), but regardless of which, I had neither, and it does require power to work. Phone, TV, Internet, all of them go down when there's no power. Well, some might be more resilient than others, but the most fragile is definitely the internet especially since my household has a ridiculously fucked up complex system in play that I don't really know how to operate.

[mastina]

Zefiend doesn't word vomit as scum from what I have seen. He just lurks away.

Isn't that...you know, exactly what he's doing now?

A wallpost every three days or so does qualify a poster as not lurking.

[mastina]

That's also a good point about Molla scum that I didn't realize

So why the fuck aren't you voting there?

[mastina]

Why haven't you interacted at all with SirCakez? (According to my memory)

I mean.
I could call all his posting scum if you'd like.

But that wouldn't exactly be productive, now, would it?

[mastina]

Mastina, suppose you are wrong on BBMolla, what does your world look like?

Aside from that world never happening, would have to cross that bridge when I came to it, honestly.

I don't have a backup plan.

I don't have a roadmap in this game.

"If X flips town, Y is scum instead".
I don't have anything like that whatsoever.
I don't have an excess of scumreads.
I have reason to townread all of the players in the game, save three.

I would be left on shaky grounds, yes, if I was proven wrong. I wouldn't exactly know where to go next. I'd have to reassess, wouldn't be able to tell you about it now though because it hasn't happened and I don't think it ever will.

It's not this often I feel so confident on a scumteam.
And there's damn fucking good reason I feel this confident about that scumteam.

[mastina]

That's potentially three out of four scum nightkilled, and their only defense is vanillaizing the 2x vigilante?

well... yeah
not to mention not being awful and avoid getting scumread. that'd probably go a pretty long way in not getting vigged.

Still.
You're positing this passed a review with the possibility of:
-One scum lynched D1.
-The scum's nightkill failing thanks to one of two sources (AT MINIMUM--not even including the possibility of scum killing themselves).
-The vig shooting scum.
-Maybe the rogue crew being able to shoot scum, depending on the exact mechanic there.
-A second scum lynched D2 from AT LEAST ONE SOURCE a guilty (with the possibility of that being GAME OVER RIGHT THEN AND THERE if scum shot themselves/the rogue crew could shoot N1).
-The vig shooting the last scum N2.

...And you think that would pass as balanced against just a 2x Vanillaizer?

[mastina]

if you two dont like that answer, then, I say it is a gut read.
if you dont like THAT answer, too bad, I dont have what you need.

No, that's good enough.
Better zefiend explanation would of course be appreciated, but what you've given is fine.

[mastina]

My thing has been that Pine's role outs him using anti-town action and it would put heat on him thus he makes sense as a bus/distance from.

And my thing has been that Pine's role is not something the scumteam would use unless it was necessary. Unless the rogue crew was all town. Something I could not have known at the time I came in.

You're moving goalposts.

[mastina]

so according to your theory, scum have vanillaizer, jk, AND the manipulative joat
or... what? do you think aj is completely making up the jk claim?
b/c mastin's theory partly relies on aj being town ya' know

(Hint: it's because SirCakez is scum.)

[mastina]

so according to your theory, scum have vanillaizer, jk, AND the manipulative joat
or... what? do you think aj is completely making up the jk claim?
b/c mastin's theory partly relies on aj being town ya' know

oh ugh I missed that part of the theory
Well then my new thesis is that only one of AJ and Molla are town, or both scum. Not both town.

Can't get a clearer example of...what's the word? Twisting? Of bending. Of backtracking? Not quite sure what the concept would be called, but this is a prime example of it:
Being shown wrong.
Then going, "Oh, well I'm still right because...", modifying it.

SirCakez is scum, who needs AJ as a mislynch candidate.

[mastina]

the. narrative. of. these. reads. make. no. sense.

(It's because he's scum.)

[mastina]

I'm VT. Character special ability is a 1-shot boost to target's character special ability. I also identify the base character special ability of my target.

I buy it.

I mean.
I don't think it's

town

.
In fact this reeks of being a scum ability.
But, I think it's truthful all the same.

It should not discourage people from lynching zefiend.

[mastina]

Mastin hit me with your pv read when you have a chance

Town.
PV is never this infuriatingly frustrating when he's scum.

He's got a clear difference in scumplay and townplay. Night and day, even. Even stronger than the difference in your play. LUV was nulltown, but PV is just town. This is his towngame. The actual tell I have for him isn't frustration (though that is a general trend; PV doesn't frustrate me when he's scum and does when he's town but I think that's just incidental), but I'm pretty damn sure this is his towngame. I'd prefer to only share with the class the reasons why if absolutely necessary. Since there's no wagon on PV, that would not be right now.

[mastina]

Goddammit, I'm probably losing power

again

.

[mastina]

I need to reread.
Hold please.

[mastina]

VOTE: Pine

While I sincerely doubted AJ the Epic would be scum anyway, I'm pretty sure this is a town vote, not a distance-from-scumbuddy vote.

[mastina]

Y'all are just jealous of my awesomeness. And you also forget that Gin and I are hydra'ing. Fail less in the future, mmkay?
VOTE: BBMolla
Hey BB. Sup?
Pine

Not only does Pine's response to the vote cement that AJ is town (that does not look like a scum-scum interaction), but also, this again makes me think that BBMolla is scum, here. The way he talked to BBMolla

does

feel like a distance-from-scumbuddy vote.

So I still think that Molla's probably scum.

[mastina]

I'm one with the Force. The Force is with me.
VOTE: Pine

As if there was any doubt Heartless would be town at this time, not only does this sound like a natural vote, it's also a good wagon--Heartless was the fifth voter on Pine. Yes, it was the RVS, but generally I've found that in RVS wagons on scum, scum tend to be near the beginning if present at all. (Most large RVS wagons are made almost entirely of town, especially if on scum.) The reasoning was town, the vote was town, so Heartless is town.

[mastina]

I just saw this movie this morning. I should have a slight idea what's going on.

I just broke Rule #3 of RVS club.
VOTE: ThinkBig
Your lack of Star Wars quotes is disturbing.

These felt incredibly, incredibly, incredibly awkward and out of place. At the time, I thought Kuroi reeked of being scum out of tune with the rest of the game, who didn't know how to act naturally during it. I still stand by that assessment.

[mastina]

VOTE: Sircakes
Nooooooooooooooöoooooooooooooo

At the time, I thought that Aeronaut being on a counterwagon to Pine wasn't a problem--voting SirCakez in this matter looked town, who was trying to be part of the festivities and not ruin the fun. (Too large of a wagon on Pine, game gets serious immediately rather than later.)

But now, I'm pretty sure this is the opposite--Aeronaut's entrance is actually really, really sketchy in hindsight. The quote actually wasn't organic, it didn't have flow to it, and he WAS making a counterwagon to Pine, refusing to join in. It sticks out.

[mastina]

Guys. Don't forget to look outside tonight. It's a full moon.

This also pinged me, because it again felt like Kuroi was faking it, forcing it rather than working with the town and having fun. There was no banter. There was no commentary. Kuroi just posted this, in isolation.

[mastina]

VOTE: infinity

Originally, I liked this for Titus being town, because she was naked voting for a third counterwagon. Basically, her entire attitude felt like it was a "zero fucks given" type thing, where she was town who didn't give a damn what the others were doing, she was going to do her own thing.

Yet now, I'm not so sure. The vote WAS naked. It was unexplained, nothing with it at all. And it was against Pine, who at that stage had six votes. (Also SirCakez at three, but that's incidental.) It actually looks like it was an awkward attempt to try and post, without actually integrating into the group.

[mastina]

VOTE: Desperado
Y'all suck for not letting me OMGUS

This vote also really really sucked--why couldn't Molla omgus-vote Pine?
Just because Pine was already at six votes?

If BBMolla were town, I'd expect him to have a "zero fucks given" attitude--he wouldn't care that there was a wagon on Pine, he'd just vote Pine.
The fact that he didn't showed he was incredibly self-conscious, self-aware, of his image, of the image of the game. He was

afraid

to go onto Pine, and that's sketchy-as-fuck.

[mastina]

I need flips. I can theorize with wagons but please don't try to "help" with my VCA with your votes. Just vote. Trying to help or get me to VCA on page 1 is creepy as fuck and your push on Pine reeks of desperation.

At the time I wrote this off as being standard Titus, not giving it a thought, but looking at it again, it feels forced, awkward, and sketchy--in particular, the defense of Pine.

[mastina]

VOTE: Titus
I didn't know that you were in this game.

This also felt forced and fake--while not knowing a player is in the game is certainly possible (especially as town), this tends to express itself in a...well. Not quite sure what the word would be. Different way. Not this way. It can happen, albeit incredibly unlikely. And when it does, it just. Isn't this.

[mastina]

Hey guys
What's shaking?

This was also a very weak entrance into the game. I wasn't fond of it at the time. Comparatively to entrances like Molla's, this would be saintly, but while it's not egregious, it's not a good entrance by any means. It felt like it was more likely to come from scum than from town.

[mastina]

I don't buy that Mastina suspected Kuroi when she replaced in at all.

I just saw this movie this morning. I should have a slight idea what's going on.

Scum?

^I mean. It's right there in my iso.

[mastina]

I voted you for your desperation posting regarding Pine and your overly friendly nature, which you immediately 180ed on. You still seem to be flailing about, which is odd for page 2 and me barely posting.

Pretty much every assertion here seems entirely premature. Aww, Titus, we're not going to be friends this game, are we?
VOTE: Titus
#srsvote

You could read this either way to be honest, but this, too, felt like it was a distancing-with-vote maneuver. Pine was fucking around, and a great way to fuck with VCA is to vote your scumbuddies early and often, then switch off of them when it becomes inconvenient.

[mastina]

Scum?

Such confidence!

The evidence is there. You said I didn't suspect Kuroi. I pointed out a post where I did.

And if you pretend you don't know that me saying "Scum?" is an actual fucking declaration, I'm calling bullshit and voting you straight out, because you damn well KNOW from MANY games playing with me that yes that is an actual accusation. The only thing stronger than "scum?" is "scum.", with a period instead of a question mark.

I suspected Kuroi. I did not suspect Kuroi as strongly as I did others, like Pine and SirCakez.
But I did in fact

hold

that suspicion. It's also evident in my initial readslist: In 529, where were you?

Nero
Molla
The Thinker
SirCakez
Pine

...Yeah. Fifth from the bottom. Out of sixteen players, you were the fifth-most suspicious to me at the time.

[mastina]

Not if you take figuring out things before you as a sign of scumminess.
Sad cause I like being friends and I SR Infinity and he doesn't likely beg for a wagon on his buddy. You can call it "premature" but the posts speak for themselves.

At the time, I liked this interaction between Titus and Pine, because it didn't look scum-scum, yet now, when looking at it, all I'm seeing is scum banter.

[mastina]

Pine why do you feel the need to defend me

A good question--we know Pine was scum and Infinity was town. So why was that defense so strong?
The obvious answer would be white knighting, but why so strongly, so early?

[mastina]

Titus, I think you're letting your aggroance be your worse enemy again.

This post also pinged for me though, because it felt like it was entirely unneeded. It might have also been a subtle sign of, "please, scumbuddy, don't do this thing, you're being stupid".

[mastina]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AJ

The unexplained naked vote here also felt like it was an attempt at pseudocontent: "Look at me being pro-town by voting like this, that means I have reasons for hopping wagons but am not sharing them, tee-hee!". Yet, there's not so much as a hint as to what AJ's posting could have triggered that. All it looks like is voting someone who was posting.

[mastina]

Side-note to DP:

Joined: November 05, 2007
Location: Whose asking, want to fight about it?
Pronoun: He

Could you enlighten me as to what your rhyme there is? I can't actually see it, yet I feel like there should be one there, given your posting style.

[mastina]

Yeah, I am not reading Mastina's shit.
Nero, my reads were obviously garbage.

These two statements do not go together.
At all.

[mastina]

Well, 13 v 4 also had a number of quirks. First, it was a very low-power scumteam. We had a 1-shot strongman, plus a group power we could activate to get one of three 1-shots, though that also gave Town a 1-shot. Plus, one of our team was a Lover with Town, which is a negative utility role. So I don't know; I could buy a 14:3 from Firebringer in a power-heavy game, he likes his scumteams relatively weak.

If it were any other player than Pine, I would be treating this statement as basically a holy gospel of balance for this game. Since it is Pine, unfortunately, grain of salt involved, and caution to be taken. I

think

that what he says here is still accurate, though. (Obviously can't be sure since Pine is fucking Pine, but. Do what you can.)

It suggests that the scumteam is probably not power-heavy. Powers probably exist, but not in great number.

Also, I'm falling asleep as I type here. I could continue and go all tiredposting, but I've got over a hundred pages that I could reread and it's only 10:15 right now so it's way too early--I can take a nap, sure, but I shouldn't actually be sleeping, meaning...will leave it here, and come back later to continue, after I've had some sleep. (Sorry, meant to get further, but need to mentally replenish lost energy.)

[mastina]

Sorry, was caught up on modding, meant to get here earlier but had dance, here now, gimme a bit to catch up on what I've missed.

[mastina]

mastin what are some things I do that look town?

This game?

None.

In other games?

A ton.

When you are town, you are really obviously town.
Not so much here!

[mastina]

you

KNOW

this is townNero so why would a presumably townMastin pretend like she doesn't know that?

To be honest: I need to refresh my memory on your scumgame.

Like.

It used to be simple.

You and Antihero both had the same tell: lurking. It was a very strong, VERY reliable tell. You lurked, you were scum; you did stuff, you weren't scum.

Tell me, does that tell still hold true?

If it doesn't, then what that means is I lack a baseline for what your scumgame actually

is

. Sure I know what the town-Nero looks like. Sure I've been assuming this is the town-Nero I've known. But I don't have exposure to your recent scum self--so I don't have the absolute assurance of you being town.

As a result, you're someone I'm looking at.

Of Molla/zefiend/Titus/PeregrineV/Nero, you are the one least likely to be scum.
You are the one who I am probably right to have townread.
But I am not going to blindly assume I was right. No, I'm going to do research.

[mastina]

zefiend's 3258 is pretty much a scumclaim, btw.
Coming down with a cold, so won't be devoting much effort to this game at the moment (want to get rid of that sickness fast), but I think people really just need to read it.

[mastina]

zefiend [1] Aj the Epic
PeregrineV [2] Heartless, Nero Cain
Nero Cain [1] Titus
TheWayItEnds [2] Zefiend, BBmolla
Not Voting - [3] TheWayItEnds, PeregrineV, Mastina,

Anonymous Message

PeregrineV is

Antoc Merrick

,

Blue One

Vanilla Townie

. He is aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Yeah, don't think this really needs much explaining.
TWIE is town; that wagon is abysmal.

And also,
VOTE: PeregrineV.

[mastina]

Magnaofillusion has replaced Titus. Please welcome him.

Well that has to be the shortest blacklist ever.

[mastina]

I didn’t realize mastin is in this game or I would not have taken the slot. I’m not replacing out as it’s my fault and I have to suck it up and deal with it.

For what it's worth, I hold no problems with you.
I mean, personally, I think you can sometimes be an asshole, and even when you're not, you can be a royal pain in the ass anyway, but you are by far not unique in those qualities as a player on this site. Plus, couldn't exactly call you out on it without a disclaimer about pots and kettles and the color black.

Grain of salt? Given how he worked Town over in Camn’s game I would expect you’d be throwing the whole shaker of salt at anything he said. Why bother to give it any credence at all?

Because *I* wasn't the one Pine fooled that game.
*I* was actually right on most of my predictions about Pine--not exactly on the money, but fairly close to it.
*I* actually massacred him. When *I* was alive, the town dominated--we had two of the three scum in our sights, and I was right to make the calls I was making.
Then I died.
And with ME dead, Pine worked

the rest

of the town. The surviving town. The town with me removed from it.

So while I take Pine's words with grains of salt, I'm not going to empty an ocean into it.

[mastina]

At this stage I would be reasonably comfortable in making a zefiend-PV-Molla callout for a scumteam, given their play/interaction.

[mastina]

I guess I don't really know what to make of it?

This does not follow from 3366.
"The message is suspect". Instead of voting, we get:
"I don't know what to make of it".

This is why Molla's scum with PV.

[mastina]

I'd like to point out that unless the anonymous messenger is mastina, they have declined to claim.

Yeah my vote should be proof enough it's not me.

[mastina]

And I know I would use that as an excuse as scum but it is what it is.

3419 and 3421?

Not helping your cause!

[mastina]

So folks
Who was the scum on the wagon

A much much much much MUCH better question would be:
Who was the scum OFF the wagon?

TheWayItEnds [1]

BBmolla

Not Voting - [2] TheWayItEnds, Nero Cain

Scum knew that it wasn't them who activated that ability.
Scum knew that it was going to be a lynch on town.
And one player, above all else, casted shade on PeregrineV while refusing to actually take responsibility for the lynch via being a part of it.
Molla is scum. Simple as that.
Now the main question to ask is whether there was more than one scum off the wagon or not. (The candidates are TWIE and Nero, there.)
But your attitude to this post-lynch is sketchy-as-fuck.

Like. I don't see the scumteam as being Molla-TWIE-Nero. Fuck, I have my doubts that even two of them would be scum, but Molla's reaction here is making me think it's possible. The wagon on PeregrineV was driven by town. Heartless, AJ the Epic, Drunken Piper, and myself are all on the wagon--who is scum in there, exactly?

The only possible scum on the wagon are zefiend (likely scum no matter what to be honest) and MagnaofIllusion (who may or may not be scum, research depending).

Oh, and:

Mod: V/LA this weekend

.
Got a lifeguard recert.

[mastina]

Scum off the wagon was TWIE it's more interesting to discuss scum on the wagon

It's really not.

There's two possible names on the wagon for being scum.
Two.

One of them is basically guaranteed scum no matter what (zefiend).
The other is basically a 50/50 shot of being scum (MoI).

So there's nothing of interest there.

The interest is outside the wagon, and the reactions there.
Specifically, the actions I'm talking about most of all (and one of the only possible reasons TWIE could ever possibly be scum), are the actions of those who were off the wagon, yet encouraged the wagon ANYWAY.

[mastina]

I find it hard to believe that Mastin would think the entire scum team would be off an easy mislynch like PV.

So do I! Because I sure as fuck wasn't saying as much!

That you're pretending I am is one of the reasons you're in my scum pool.

There's a difference between "Nero is being a stubborn asshole", and "Nero is twisting logic at every possible point and even flat-out LYING about posts in order to justify his read, giving absolutely no evolution on it at all". This is the latter. Case-'n'-point:

Also I think her V/LA for Sunday is kinda bullshit. Like why not tell us long before you were going to be v/la Sunday?

Spoiler: What is this called, Nero?

Yeah. I would

NEVER

lie about real-life. EVER.
EVER EVER.
NEVER WOULD I EVER. FUCKING. LIE. ABOUT MY REAL LIFE.
You can go burn in hell for suggesting I would so much as for one fucking second. consider lying about my real life.
You know me.
You FUCKING KNOW me.

And lying about my real life is something I would NEVER do. EVER.

I have a fucking class.
I'm midway through the pre-class class. Taking a break from it, which quite frankly I shouldn't be doing but it's exhausting. This is a full lifeguard recert class I'm going through. Which means CPR, AED, First Aid, whole works--and I came here to RELAX, to take a break, from the stress of the learning and I don't have the patience to deal with your shit.

NEVER

raise that accusation against me.
NEVER.

[mastina]

Basic hierarchy of scumreads:
I will lynch Molla.
I will lynch zefiend.
I would not recommend lynching anyone else, even though there's a third scum, because I'm not sure who said third scum is yet.
The candidates would be Nero, Magna, and TWIE.
I don't think it's TWIE--it's possible, given his lack of content and the treatment of PV yesterday, but I don't think this is his scumgame; there are a few things which make this game feel different from Steven Universe in his attitude. I can explain this if necessary, but basically, he's the least likely of the candidates to be scum.

Leaves Nero and Magna.
Kuroi's slot was sketchy-as-fuck. Nero's tunneling this game goes beyond the normal level of tunneling from him. Nero, when he's town tunneling, at least makes sense--the Nero of this game has been shown wrong, and then when shown wrong, invented new reasons, twisted new logic to justify a lack of reads evolution, and that's something which isn't something I remember from him as town.
Yet Magna's slot's not much better. Titus was suspicious before, and fit perfectly as a scumbuddy: she refused to vote either zefiend OR Molla. MagnaofIllusion hasn't really done anything to really scum up the slot, sure enough, but he also hasn't done anything to town the slot up, either. Also, the very fact that I'm not seeing alarm bells in MoI should, itself, be...an alarm bell. Townreading him = reason for him to be scum; scumreading him = reason for him to be town. This is closer to the former than the latter.

So while I'm pretty sure one of Nero/MoI is scum, I can't tell which of them it is yet and therefore would not recommend lynching in there until we can get a better idea of the gamestate. Which is why lynching either of Molla/zefiend, and then lynching the other, is a top priority.

[mastina]

hehe. That rage is so fake. I'm obviously not accusing Mastina of lieing about the lifeguard cert, what I am accusing her of it that the timing of going V/La is fucking convenient.

"I'm not accusing her of doing this something, except I am totally accusing her of doing that something!"

What the fuck do you call an accusation of the timing being convenient if NOT an accusation of me lying?

Like, I'm assuming that this wasn't a last minute thing so presumably Mastin knew about it before hand so why not say anything about it till the night before?

Funny story, that!
Did you know I've been dealing with bullshit technical errors for TWO FUCKING WEEKS in regards to my Y learning account?
Did you know it took my boss's boss LOGGING INTO MY ACCOUNT in order to get that issue resolved?
Did you know that I wasn't actually signed up for the class until Thursday or so, in spite of having tried to sign up for nearly half a month?

Yeah of course you didn't, because that's knowledge I, with it being MY FUCKING LIFE, chose not to divulge.
I kept it simple. I am doing this thing. I gave that knowledge at the first available time I could give it--and only because I had the thought of, "Oh, probably should mention I'm busy at this time I am going to be really fucking busy". That was all you should have needed to know.

So once again, with absolutely no respect attached because you deserve none:
Fuck. off.

[mastina]

I know that I was on the Cakez lynch but I was just really sick of the day phase and obviously only Zfiend or Cakez was viable...but we should have been lynching Titus that day.

Like, the level of bullshit in here is off the charts, especially considering how hypocritical this statement is.

[mastina]

Townreading him = reason for him to be scum; scumreading him = reason for him to be town. This is closer to the former than the latter.

like this think about townreading him and slightly suspecting him looks like leveraging on a buddy.

Hey Nero.
Let's play a game.
It's called "guess my alignment where I give this statement". What alignment was I when I said this?

Ok sounds good.
VOTE: Farside

By the way, just sayin'. I absolutely hate you.
I don't exactly have a lot of experience with Killthestory, but I was townreading him enough where I wasn't really bothering to read him.
Now, you.
You, I know I can't read. There's a damn good reason I policy-cop you whenever I have that power.
And, dammit.

I'm scumreading your posts, in spite of me trying not to.
Thus, why I hate you.

Or how about these?

I'm dead serious about Magna by the way: if anyone has

anything

they'd like to share about him which would make me feel better, I'd love to have it so that I could actually write him off and not bother getting a read on him.
'Cause, uh, yeah. As-is. He's someone I desperately want to be alignment confirmed one way or another.

Shadow_step I just don't have a read on either way, but there's nothing which made him remove him. This was prior to MoI's posting, of course. He'd be at the Shadow_step level right now.

I can say MoI is the secondary one I'd look at, but this is not a scumread, more of a, "give him a thorough look to make absolutely sure he's not scum" read.

Go on. Guess. Because all of those are me expressing a scumread on MoI, when MoI wasn't scum; most of them note specifically why Magna is a policy-check for me in games thanks to this. What was my alignment? I went through the trouble of removing game links so you can't cheat easily. What was my alignment in each of those quotes?

[mastina]

I know that I was on the Cakez lynch but I was just really sick of the day phase and obviously only Zfiend or Cakez was viable...but we should have been lynching Titus that day.

Like, the level of bullshit in here is off the charts, especially considering how hypocritical this statement is.

Says the person who spent the first two days avoiding the main wagons.

Pine-A-Tonics

[LYNCH]

Mastina

, Drunken Piper, Infinity 324, Heartless, SirCakez, BBmolla, Klingoncelt, Desperado

Pine-A-Tonics

[2]

mastina

, Nachomamma8

The Thinker

[LYNCH] TheWayItEnds, Heartless, Infinity 324, AJ the Epic, Pine-A-Tonics, Desperado, SirCakez, Drunken Piper, Klingoncelt

[mastina]

Like.

Nero is flat-out LYING about the game.
Not exaggerating.
You can argue that maybe his memory is shit.
But he's been pushing facts which just aren't true the entire time he's been pushing me.
He's making shit up to justify the read on me. Selling a narrative which if you actually bother to check out his sources, is shown to be horseshit.

And he wonders why I think he could be scum.

[mastina]

I'm flatout intentionally lying about this game and you only think I

could

be scum.

Damn straight.

Really says something about how much I respect your towngame right about now, huh?

I used to look up to it, yeah.

But with this shit I can say that you're either scum or your ability went to the crapper and you've lost all of it.

Take your pick.

It'd be easier for me to believe you're scum.
It'd be more righteous. It'd be more satisfying. It'd be more rewarding. It would make me feel oh SO much better if this shit you're pulling came from scum. Because that way, I could still respect a town Nero. Because this game wouldn't be you as town, I would be able to call you friend and ally again.

So tell me. Is that the case? You scum? Because if you're not. Then the level of attack you have sunk to is despicable beyond despicable. It's despicable regardless of alignment--but it's flat-out unacceptable coming from town. So that's why I want you to be scum. I FLAT-OUT FUCKING

WANT

YOU TO BE SCUM.

But I don't actually KNOW you are scum because I don't actually KNOW your alignment.

[mastina]

You still spent the early game avoiding myslynches.

There is an alignment this is meant for!
Specifically, this alignment tries to avoid mislynches and focus on lynching scum!

Now, pray tell, which alignment would that be? Which alignment would try to avoid mislynches and try to lynch scum?

[mastina]

Not gonna quote 3541, but will give this as a response:

[mastina]

Err, 3540.
The long MoI post. Not 3541.

[mastina]

As for claim order: Molla already claimed, and zefiend already claimed.
Those two are the ones I'd most want claimed before me and I'm near the top of the claim order so I don't mind claiming:
Princess Leia (thus my "I'm force-sensitive" earlygame), VT.
My special ability is a shitty passive requiring a player to die first. And I don't know who said player is. Just that in order for said passive to be used, they'd have to die; Firebringer hasn't informed me this has happened, so that means the player who needs to die is still alive. Hold on for a sec, need to check my role PM for the exact details.

[mastina]

Oh.
Slight correction to make: my role PM's not Princess Leia; to be more precise, it's technically Leia Organa, Rebel Princess, but same thing.
My special ability, Hope, is to be given the death star plans upon the death of a certain player. It doesn't give any further specifics. No name of the player in question. No character attached. Just, "when a certain player dies, you get the death star plans".

I'm presuming it is an automatic passive. And that the fact it hasn't happened yet means that the player in question is still alive. But I don't even know what the death star plans would actually

do

. I'm GUESSING it would be some sort of ability. But I don't actually know, which is why the ability is so shitty.

[mastina]

Might I also point out: Drunken Piper being revived by a treestump ability is another reason to call into doubt BBMolla's claimed special ability--the ability he claimed is effectively a personalized version of what this public ability did.

[mastina]

Princess Leia (thus my "I'm force-sensitive" earlygame

Why did you feel the need to crumb?

Because that's just what I do.

can we lynch mastin now

This, during the day, in mylo, versus this:

But please continue tunneling me I look forward to rubbing it in your face post game

...During the night. I've never seen a more blatant turnaround out of opportunism.

As for claim order: Molla already claimed, and zefiend already claimed. Those two are the ones I'd most want claimed before me and I'm near the top of the claim order so I don't mind claiming: Princess Leia (thus my "I'm force-sensitive" earlygame), VT. My special ability is a shitty passive requiring a player to die first. And I don't know who said player is. Just that in order for said passive to be used, they'd have to die; Firebringer hasn't informed me this has happened, so that means the player who needs to die is still alive. Hold on for a sec, need to check my role PM for the exact details.

hey a-hole, there are other abilities floating. dont answer for them with all of your bloating.

If you didn't want me to fucking fullclaim, you shouldn't have put me so high up on the list! Because zefiend already fullclaimed:

I'm VT. Character special ability is a 1-shot boost to target's character special ability. I also identify the base character special ability of my target.

Now he didn't claim flavor, I suppose, but he did fullclaim, and you put me as next on the list after him, so.

[mastina]

Feeling pretty shitty with my sickness--going to try turning in early to see if I can sleep it away, so going to skip posting tonight. Will post tomorrow, most likely.

[mastina]

Apologies.
I need to take another day off.
It's just that I've been suffering a lot more than normal with this sickness. (It's possible that it's not a normal cold. I felt a little feverish multiple times today and this would be one way of explaining why temperature's been a problem for me because too hot then too cold then too hot.) I've got my eye on the deadline for today, which is over ten days from now, so I know I can afford to take my time resting/recovering.

Now ideally I wouldn't lay a last-minute vote.
I want to read the entire thread.
And also reread the thread.
Also, I want to do pair analysis, giving a list of trios and how likely or rather unlikely they would be and why. I actually think this might hold more importance than the reread, though I think getting up to date on the game thread would come first.

Still, all the same: sickness still sucks. Still is here. And needs to not be here. Resting/recovering seems to be something which should take priority over giving content at this very moment.

I'm now somewhat skeptical of my body's ability to fight this off by tomorrow (and even if I did, there's family night then, plus a tae kwon do test tomorrow), but I THINK there's nothing on Saturday? So I'm hoping to have bested this battle by then.

[mastina]

The good news is: mostly recovered!
The bad news is: not fully recovered!
The worse news is: even if I was, some family thing came up and I wouldn't be available until late tomorrow anyway!

I'll be sure to find time on Sunday though.

[mastina]

Going to get to this later tonight.
Still sick as fuck, and not exactly in condition to play here atm (would be...very unpleasant--very, very, very, VERY unpleasant and that's not something you need to see), but while I'll still be sick later tonight, I'll be in condition to play hopefully. So yeah. Be back later tonight, after real life stuff. Like eating. And napping. And music maybe. And general ~not being scum of the earth vibes~ shit. You get the idea.

[mastina]

Correction.

I need to not be here tonight.

I really need to not be here tonight.

I thought this game would be in a different mood.

I am NOT in a mindset where you want to see my reply to Magna's 3588.
On a different night when I've calmed down I'm sure I would be able to do so.
Tonight, no. When I say you don't want to see me respond.
I mean you really don't fucking want me to respond.

I've managed to keep myself from getting banned--I'd rather not cross a line to earn one and I would.

[mastina]

I'm not exactly calm right now, but I think it's subdued enough where my anger won't actually show in my posts, so.

My issues with Mastin from what I have read since replacing revolve around [HER] seemingly singular focus on BBMolla as obv-scum.

My main issue with you stems from your continued misgendering of me.

In all my time on here, there's been a grand total of ONE other person who has so consistently misgendered me. ONE other person. That person went from friend to...no longer friend, and is responsible for the one and only time I've replaced out of a game on mastin2. So let me make this perfectly clear: I am sick of this shit. Really, really sick of it. You call me Mastin; my name is mastina, and Heartless didn't ask you about Mastin; they asked you about MASTINA and yet you deliberately said Mastin instead.

You constantly call me he. You were doing it the entirety of Steven Universe 2, and what's worse, you were doing it behind closed doors, where I couldn't call you out on it. Multiple times, people have corrected you on it. You were told by MANY people about this in Defcon mafia. You misgendered me when I was dead and could no longer defend against that, but there someone was kind enough to call you out on your shit.

At every stage, you call me he. But I'm a girl. I have a female avatar. I have a more feminine name (one which you refuse to use). My pronoun is listed right on my fucking posts. Every fucking post I make, it's there: "Pronoun: She". I have made it abundantly clear each and every time to not call me a he. Yet even after repeated requests to not do so, you persist with this.

It would be one thing if it were just an occasional thing.

But I came out literally three years ago. Three fucking years ago. That's a long damn time to adjust. I even have a new account which is even harder than my last one to misgender. And yet. You're not just occasionally doing it, accidentally once every while. It's every post. Every fucking post. And never a "sorry". Never an acknowledgment. You've been called out on your shit before.

And my main issue with you.

Is that it basically feels deliberate. Like it's a deliberate attack on me.

I normally wouldn't bother to honor your blacklist request since I frankly don't keep track of the players who blacklist me; that's their responsibility, not mine. I also don't keep a blacklist of my own. But this level of constant abuse? Good way to tempt me!

So what exactly do you disagee with Mastin? Aside from me calling you out on your bullshit which I knew you would take umbrage with.

Aside from the above? Too fucking much. The only thing in there are some shitty zefined points.

[mastina]

Haven't used 1-shot ability.

You...haven't used your one-shot ability yet...which was basically an investigative...when today is mylo.
Is that what you're saying here?

...

VOTE: zefiend.

[mastina]

I was also sent a 1x voyuer the night before and used that on Heartless and was told they were targeted with a protection and Investigation role. I asked what a jailkeeper would show up as and Fire says that it would be protective.

So...you think that AJ the Epic is a scum jailkeeper, jailing a town Heartless?

[mastina]

The

LAMIST

I'd bet the game on it is pretty obv scum hoping to save their partner and get a mislynch in probable MYLO.

keep throwing around those empty buzzwords.

This is very LAMIST.

[mastina]

but if we want to talk about unproveable claims....just look at Mastins.

Not my fault. That's what I have. I don't know what the death star plans are, what they do, what they provide, because whoever needs to die before I can get them...hasn't died. It's a huge fucking inconvenience, and there's nothing I can do about it.

[mastina]

Yes, Cakez did eventually overcome Zfiend, so even if we want to argue that Cakez was the counter wagon to Zefiend then there'd be scum sitting on the Cakez lynch.

SirCakez [LYNCH]

PeregrineV

, Titus,

Infinity 324

,

Aj The Epic

, Zefiend,

Heartless

,

Nero Cain

[mastina]

I'll wait for Anti's verdict on the setup, but my first impression is all the claimed specials are probably town.

That would require:
-zefiend, MoI, Nero as a scumteam (which I don't think I need to tell you why I find unlikely), OR:
-zefined, TWIE, one of Nero/MoI as a scumteam.

I'm sorry, but I simply don't see any of those three combos as being likely.
I'll do full pair analysis when I have the chance (probably not tonight), but I just really think that Molla is scum.
zefiend, Molla, and then a third (most likely one of MoI/Nero) is what makes the most sense to me.

[mastina]

I was thinking about how that would work and I never got to a completely satisfying conclusion.

Look, I have the role. I have the most direct access to it. I know the exact wording. And even I can't figure it out. I thought that maybe my role might've been a backup, actually--that someone had the death star plans at the beginning of the game, and upon their death, I'd inherit them instead. But nobody claimed as much. There's not even a character whose death I can clearly see going, "Oh! There's the trigger!" Like, maybe a Captain Antilles, or similar role. That'd make flavor sense. But nobody has claimed that flavor, meaning that there's no clear player whose death would trigger this.

I don't have the words for the emotions that makes me feel. In my ranting to the dead thread, there's quite a few expletives mixed in, mainly directed Firebringer's way. I don't know. I couldn't figure it out. I still can't figure it out.

[mastina]

there's a bit of town power here, but it's mostly concentrated on a few ppl. scum already have TWO known ways to shut it down (factional nk + vanillaizer).

I think you overvalue the importance of the scum's NK when it comes to PR balance.

I know the strength of the scum NK for GENERAL balance, but I do not think mhsmith or RadiantCowbells or Firebringer account for the basic fundamental mafia ability when it comes to other roles--basically, YOU say that the scum's nightkill is a way to shut down town power. While

technically

true, I don't see this as being a balance concern. It never crops up in any review I've ever done as far as I can remember. It simply isn't talked about.

So no. I don't think it's two ways. I think it's one gated way: a limited-shot vanillaizer.

[mastina]

you can't have a clusterfuck of power over a few people and then give scum TWO general counter roles, that's FUCKING NUTS.

This is true! AJ the Epic is, as a result, town. (As if there was ever any doubt.)

But what about one gated general counter role, and a second very specific situational gated counter role?

molla's role is middling to weak

Exactly!

[mastina]

No need to convince me of anything, really. The dispersion of powers and claims makes me fairly confident about my guess that one of AJ/BB is scum. And with mastina's constant pushing on BB, it's pretty obvious who I think it is. AJ and MOI have actively engaged in vote-parking on me because I was a fairly attackable mislynch when heartless and Infinity were pressuring me hard. It's probably no coincidence that mastina constantly calls me (and other townies) scum, but avoids wagons at all costs.
mastina + MOI + AJ is where I'm at right now.
VOTE: MOI

Not sure if this blatant copy of Nero is scumbuddies or just scum buddying town though.

zefiend is 100% definitely scum, period, no matter what.
The thing in question here is Nero. (And for that matter, MoI.)

[mastina]

Heartless, why do you think you are still alive?

Hmm, maybe that has to do with the fact that we have a claimed fucking jailkeeper?
A jailkeeper who, if scum, could just...not protect Heartless?
I mean. He quite literally said N3: "I forgot to protect anyone".

If AJ were scum, then scum would have killed Heartless that night.
But because AJ is town, the scum didn't know that AJ wasn't going to.

[mastina]

@MOI-What was Mastina's d1 case on Pine?

Pure unadulterated rage at how I can read him and others can't.

[mastina]

TTH, you know that scum pushing their buddy is a solid scum tactic and happens rather often right?

Yes and I am one of the strongest proponents on-site of just how fucking stupid that is to do when scum. Because,

bussing should really only be done when absolutely necessary, when there's no way you won't get away with NOT doing it. in this case, mastin probably just would've entered calling pine town. being scum and having a buddy not be scumread is a LUXURY, one that you don't just throw away. mastin knows this.

^More or less, this. Bussing is absolutely idiotic. It is playing as a survivor, not playing as scum. It is playing self-centered, rather than playing with a plan. It is playing like a blind idiot with no thought.

Bussing is a failure to run proper risk-reward. Doing a bus is low-reward: bussing is SO fucking common that you get zero towncred from having done it, and thus, there is little to be gained from it. Doing a bus is high-risk: losing a scumbuddy makes the game MUCH harder on you. ESPECIALLY when said scum is the strongest fucking role in the game. We've established that we've had a grand total of two roles flipped, with two extra roles claimed, plus the 1x-abilities of each player. That means the scumteam's power roles can't POSSIBLY be stacked. You can't have super-strong scum roles. As a result?

The Vanillaizer is basically confirmed beyond a shadow of any doubt to be the scumteam's strongest role. As a result, bussing them with the intent to lynch them on DAY FUCKING ONE is the absolute worst possible scum move. That, not even going into how this is a hydra of fucking Pine, and TheRealGin-N-Tonic. TheRealGin-N-Tonic is a rising star, including in his scumplay. Pine is fucking Pine. He got a fucking TITLE for his ability to manipulate others so consistently. The two of them are DREAMTEAM SCUMBUDDIES.

Which is why the idea I would

throw that all away

is so insulting. It's insulting to my capabilities as a scum player; I am not that amateurish. And it is insulting to my ability to read Pine; I am the fucking EXPERT at reading Pine. Like. My ability to read him transcends logic. I just fucking KNOW when he's scum. And I knew he was scum here. I didn't explain it well--but I pushed. And pushed. And pushed.

[mastina]

Just as a note, mastin has hard bussed before, and I could feasibly see mastin planning a bus on Pine as a way to ensure town cred for one of them.

Yeah, the thing about tricks is they only work once.

That's my driving scum mantra. Every fucking game is different. I never run the same strategy twice. I change things up, specifically because I know that they won't work again.

The reason Left4Dead worked well is because of two factors:
One, the huge overlap in playerlist between it and The Walking Dead--I knew I was going to be scumread, so I knew a lynch on me was inevitable, because my scumgame was fresh in everyone's minds. That game was recently enough that they knew exactly what to expect...or so they thought.
Two, because I had never pulled the stunt before. It was the first, and only, time I have done it, because I knew that it would work.

Now, people fucking know. I brag about Left4Dead constantly as being one of my elite scumgames among elite scumgames. Prior to Inorganic Chemistry, it was THE elite scumgame of elite scumgames. It is memorable. It is unique. It is a testament to my abilities--but it is also all of these things specifically because it was the first and only time I did it.

EVERYONE knows about the gambit I pulled there--everyone. Literally everyone. Because I constantly tell them about it, as a beacon of situational awareness. That game is a defining example of situational awareness: I knew going in that people would scumread me. I knew that I was going to be lynched. So I knew to call my scumbuddies scum and the town, town, so that when I did die, it would confuse the town especially since I fucking ORDERED my scumbuddies to bus me.

But let's talk about situational awareness! Coming into this game, I replaced into a slot which was pretty damn town! Pretty Princess was obviously town. There might have been one or two sentiments expressed of the contrary, but by and large, there was neutral to positive sentiment about my slot. FURTHERMORE, the last scumgame I had was Green Day--the only player here knowing of that is TellTaleHeart (a slot who was scumreading Pretty Princess anyway), which mind you is a reason Heartless (and NOT Nacho) would've been my N1 nightkill.

It's been ages since anyone here has seen me as scum, and fuck, it's been ages since *I* have played scum--in fact, Green Day was almost a solid year ago if I recall correctly. As a result, nobody knows my "no bussing" rule. Nobody knows that I would buddy and defend my scumbuddies. Nobody knows what to expect of a scumastina, so I could get away with blatantly scummy shit like protecting Pine and protecting my scumbuddies. This is what situational awareness would tell me as scum.

So the fact that I "bussed" Pine...is in fact all the proof you need that I'm not fucking scum.

Yet the fact that you're casting shade like this? Very much did not escape my eyes.

[mastina]

Oh zefiend is prob scum just for that push

And yet, you refuse to lay down a vote.

[mastina]

Lets even count PV as a scum kill b/c it was their message that framed PV.

holy
shit

And now you know why my attitude towards Nero is what it has been.

[mastina]

how was taekwondo?

Was alright. The students both passed. I gave them feedback, as the tester.
Though it would be nice to get feedback on my feedback, something I don't actually get. Ah well.
Did some nice aggressive sparring--my instructor chided me for not going at test-level, though that was because I was looking for the student to give me something, hoping to encourage it by acting more laxed. Nothing too serious, though.

[mastina]

which was basically an investigative

no its not

Character special ability is a 1-shot boost to target's character special ability.

I also identify the base character special ability of my target

.

Seems awfully lot like a special ability rolecop to me! What do we call that?

Oh yeah. An investigative.

[mastina]

I DO!

And that can't happen why?

Aside from game balance?
Aside from suboptimal role usage?
Aside from the points Heartless raised?
Aside from the points I've already raised?
Aside from AJ being obvtown?
Aside from your own fucking action proving that AJ's ability is real and he used it in the way he said he would?
Aside from how scum have this nasty tendency to lie?

...No I guess I wouldn't have many reasons to present to you.

[mastina]

What do you think of MOI finding my claim scummy that we can't confirm it but ignoring yours?

It's not the smoking gun you think, because MoI as town would be biased by his reads filtering in, he scumreads you and doesn't scumread me, and that would be reason enough...

...HOWEVER. However, while it's not the hard-scumtell you insist it is, I find it scummy anyway, for the WAY he went about it. But that's like. In all of his posts. So it's nothing remarkable. He's scummy. That is one reason he is scummy. It is not a defining reason he is scummy.

[mastina]

Yes, Cakez did eventually overcome Zfiend, so even if we want to argue that Cakez was the counter wagon to Zefiend then there'd be scum sitting on the Cakez lynch.

SirCakez [LYNCH]

PeregrineV

, Titus,

Infinity 324

,

Aj The Epic

, Zefiend,

Heartless

,

Nero Cain

Why is Z's name not in read if you think he's scum and why ignore Titus?

Because I colored in only known alignments. If this were from my perspective, then AJ would be colored green, rather than the blue I show him as. As for Titus, I've made it abundantly clear: I think one of you/MoI is scum.

I think the other is town.

But I am having a LOT of trouble pinning down which is which.
One is basically guaranteed to be scum.
The other is almost assuredly town.
Yet I can't discern which would be which.

I highlighted your name, however, because this was your fucking point.

[mastina]

what if there's only 2 scum?

Then, one, my job becomes so much easier.
Two, it means that the town's powers become MUCH stronger and that the scum's lack of power outside the vanillaizer isn't enough. A micro-sized scumteam has a single scum PR. A micro-sized scumteam in a LARGE cannot function with only one; it needs a second. So it'd increase the strength of my Molla scumread.
Three, it would mean that Molla-zefiend is the scumteam and that MoI-Nero is town-town.
So four, why the FUCK is your vote on Magna, the player

not

guaranteed to be scum, rather than on zefiend, the player who

is

scum no matter what?

Two scum, three scum, doesn't matter.
zefiend is scum on any given scumteam.
MoI is only scum in select circumstances.

So we REALLY should be lynching zefiend first. I don't understand why you're on MoI.

[mastina]

Then why is AJ's name blue?

Because AJ is a confirmed by your own fucking word power role.
And even better, a role confirmed to be unbalanced-as-fuck if on the scumteam.
You have this game have two members of the NRG: Firebringer the mod, and mhsmith a reviewer.
You have an ADDITIONAL two members of the NRG in-game: both Antihero and myself.
Anti and I don't have a total agreement on the setup--that's natural enough I suppose, as multiple reviewers are required for a Normal for that very reason; we don't always agree.
...But on subjects we DO agree on...

...There's a pretty damn high chance we know what the fuck it is we're talking about!
Yes I realize this is an Appeal to Authority; no I don't give a fuck because it is still a valid point.

Your idea of balance is utter shit.
Antihero and I are actual fucking NRG members and we've both told you as much.

[mastina]

bc moi is the place nero and our reads meet

And if Nero is scum and MoI is town? What then?

zefiend is scum--you think so, I think so. We should be lynching there, first.

[mastina]

mastin 2 other scum besides zefiend go.

Molla is one, easy.
The problem is the third.
It could be Nero.
It could be MoI.
It's almost assuredly one of them--it's establishing WHICH of them it is which is the issue. I can't figure it out right now and would just be much more comfortable lynching the confirmed scum (zefiend) than the possible scum (MoI). It's safer. It's easier. It gives more time for us to refine our reads. It's just...better.

[mastina]

What do you think of Mastin hard town reading Titus all game until today?

I think that you have an awfully funny definition of hard townreading considering that Titus was nulltown to me the vast majority of the game--she was among my weakest townreads.

[mastina]

Is there a world where MoI isn't scum?

Strictly speaking, it'd technically be possible to be three.
Realistically speaking, there's two:
Where there's only two scum (in which case, MoI is town)...
...Or where Nero is scum.

In both instances, MoI is town. (The third would be TWIE being scum but fuck that.)

[mastina]

Zefiend [3] MagnaofIllusion, Aj The Epic, Mastina,
MagnaofIllusion [3] Nero Cain, Zefiend, Heartless
Not Voting - [2] TheWayItEnds, BBMolla

Both two away from being lynched. Notably, this is mylo: it only takes two town voting a town player for scum to win.

AJ is town. I am town. MoI is a question mark, sure--but if zefiend was town, then there would be enough to lynch him.

Conversely, on MoI...Heartless is town, but Nero is a question mark and zefiend is basically guaranteed scum. If MoI was town, scum wouldn't be able to lynch him.

[mastina]

Anti.
While I appreciate your changed read on Molla.
I'm gonna have to tell you to go back to what you had before. You were right; I was wrong.
Molla is town.

Upon Magna's death, I received the death star plans.
The death star's a fucking factional scum JOAT.
Specifically, the death star's abilities are Cloaking Field (all scum are ninjas for the night), Firing the Death Star (strongman kill), and Impenetrable Hull (scum become BP for the night).

Against that kind of firepower, Molla literally can't be a scum JOAT; they

have

a scum JOAT, a factional one, so they don't need a player who has those powers.

I don't see how scum could hold ANY PR, really, at this point.

VOTE: zefiend.
There's no universe in which zefiend is town this game.

[mastina]

Yes. Immediately after Magna died. I was given a message from Firebringer, which said that I had received the death star plans. Within that message, I was given the names of three abilities, and the description of what they did, and told, essentially, "this is what the death star does". Meaning the death star is a scum JOAT.

I mean.
Unless you think:
-That my role has yet to actually be triggered, AND
-That it was a scum messenger sending to me at

exactly

the right time...

...That's pretty conclusively from Firebringer? I realize I fullclaimed, but it's kind-of hard to fake fully the exact format of Firebringer's PMs, so I'm pretty sure it's legit. The scum have a JOAT, a ninja/strongman/BP JOAT to be more specific, and with the scum having that kind of a power, I just don't see any way for Molla to be anything other than town.

[mastina]

yeah but the NRG also banned hydras so what do they know really.

mhsmith and Firebringer weren't reviewers back then. If Antihero was one (would have to check when he joined), he didn't weigh in. As for me, I was vehemently against banning them and fought that battle very hard and remain bitter about losing it, so.

[mastina]

I'm here but I really don't know what you want me to say?
I haven't said anything but I can't really think of anything TO say, so.

[mastina]

Suggestion.

Normally, in mylo, we have two options: talk it out and try to decide on a lynch...
...OR, we no-lynch, have a player nightkilled, and go into lylo.

Heartless has been obvtown the entire game, which would normally give me a strong bias towards working with them to try and figure this out. But they are not conftown.

...Yet this game has something which alters the status quo: the underutilized, frequently outdated, Last Will.
How about we say nothing in-thread (so go without discussion, as to prevent tipping the scum off)...
...Except all of us PROMISING that we've updated our last wills to accurately reflect reads if we are the nightkill?

Basically, my plan is this:
We say nothing about reads publicly here in the thread.
We all spend as much time as we need privately reviewing the game. Posting prod-dodges, funny videos, off-topic conversations as needed, if necessary.
When everyone says they are ready, when everyone says they have updated their last wills and done their homework, we no-lynch.
...And then, when the scum nightkill a player, we have that player's input in lylo. The full benefit of them still alive, without the drawback of paranoia. The scum can't kill strategically because they're taking a shot in the dark--they wouldn't know the reads of the rest of the town, and what input they would provide. They wouldn't know what 1v1s would come up, which battles they could win, or not.

Firebringer SAID he wished towns used that mechanic more.
And this seems like the perfect fucking opportunity to utilize it to its maximum value.

Is this viable?

[mastina]

Alright. I THINK I'm ready.
VOTE: No Lynch.

[mastina]

Mastin your how was your death star info phrased?

If you want an answer beyond this:

Upon Magna's death, I received the death star plans. The death star's a fucking factional scum JOAT. Specifically, the death star's abilities are Cloaking Field (all scum are ninjas for the night), Firing the Death Star (strongman kill), and Impenetrable Hull (scum become BP for the night).
Scum

have

a scum JOAT, a factional one, so they don't need a player who has those powers.

what tripped that, mastin? did fire tell you?

Yes. Immediately after Magna died. I was given a message from Firebringer, which said that I had received the death star plans. Within that message, I was given the names of three abilities, and the description of what they did, and told, essentially, "this is what the death star does". Meaning the death star is a scum JOAT.

...Then you're gonna have to wait for Firebringer to clear my paraphrase.

[mastina]

Okay, so paraphrase of Firebringer was approved.

Basically, I was told,
"DEATH STAR:"
With the three abilities below that laid out in detail. Approximate wording--
Cloak Field: Scum ninjas for night of activation.
Firing the Death Star: Scum perform strongman kill when activated.
Impenetrable Hull: Scum immune to death for night of activation.

It specifies that the Death Star allows for the whole faction to be these things:
The whole faction becomes ninjas, so it's not a standard ninja. The whole faction become bulletproof, so it's not a single player being bulletproof.
It doesn't specify "one specific player". So not inventors. "Scum will strongman kill". Scum, not specific scum. I'm pretty sure that Firebringer is using Scum here to mean Scum in general, else he would say "a scum" if it were specific.
Also the description of cloak field uses '

their

', and actionS, plural.

It's not an inventor. It's not a JOAT being used personally, as in, the standard scum JOAT which is required to do the things. So it's not gifting a player ninja/strongman/BP status; it's not itself gaining ninja/strongman/BP status; it is granting these things to the entire faction.

Ergo, factional JOAT. I am basically positive this information is genuine.
And I am somewhat-skeptical of Molla fakeclaiming a role he doesn't have.
And if Molla really has a JOAT, then the scum with THIS JOAT can't be Molla.

...But I fucking hate this situation right now because clearing Molla violates one of my longest-standing principles:
Role, versus Play.

When it comes down to it, I trust Play nine times out of Ten. Molla's play is sketchy across the whole fucking game.
Molla's Role is something that I'm having trouble seeing as being from scum.

I don't want to make the same mistake I did and drag out a game for two weeks in lylo the way I did in Steven Universe...

...But at the same time, this is actually not as easy, so yes. I do need to take my time. And I am sorry, Heartless, but I DO need to consider the possibility of Molla as scum. In Steven Universe, I had both role and play backing my RR suspicion. Here they are in conflict, so I'm going to spend some time rereading.

I know this game is in lylo, but this is all I have time for at the moment. It IS the weekened, I AM busy, and I have other priorities aside from this game I need to attend to, but I intend to give this game a thorough look-over.

[mastina]

don't overthink it or agonize about it too much though

Unfortunately, that's kind-of my thing.
I'm not conftown here, but I'm guessing I'm going to be the deciding vote here, and one of the problems I'm working on is eerily similar.

TheWayItEnds is a VETERAN of Steven Universe. He saw, first-hand, how much time and effort I put into evaluating my reads, yet he ALSO saw how I ultimately stuck to my guns, how I ultimately decided to lynch my largest scumread. If he were scum, he would know this, so I'm just not sure he leaves me alive if scum.

Then there was yesterday. He saw Heartless go after BBMolla. He knew that I also have held game-long suspicion on Molla. Why would he advocate for a no-lynch when he knew that between those two factors, he had a very realistic chance of pulling out a win?

...Yet it's not exactly like Molla doesn't know me either. He KNOWS the confidence I display is a facade. He KNOWS that I am consistently, constantly, plagued by doubt--I don't always show it, but I am. He knows that me living to lylo, when I've had every opportunity and reason to die, will

really freak me out

, because damn fucking straight, yeah, it does. Ultimately, if I had died I'd have thought Molla was scum (my last will mentions this), but me living isn't exactly clearing him as town, because he knows how much I hate this sort of situation.

I mean. His experience isn't as recent as TWIE's. But he still KNOWS me. He KNOWS that I am likely to wrack my head on it and make the wrong decision.

I really need to think.
I don't know.
I kind-of just want to be voted to make this easier. If by town, to lose the game to scum with no blame attached on my part; if by scum, so that I don't have to bother sorting which player is scum.

But.
I sincerely doubt that's actually going to happen at this stage, so.

I need to think.
One moment I'm thinking it has to be TWIE.
The next, Molla.
I'm trying to figure it out, figure out what my little voice is telling me, to figure out which option is the fear/paranoia, and which option is the real gut, but I can't tell right now.

I'll be back later and try to do some analysis.
Push come to shove, right now I'd

probably

vote Molla, but that sounds absolutely terrible to me and I REALLY don't want to make that call right now.

[mastina]

Like.
There's a couple of things I've thought of. (I've PMed them to Firebringer for the time being, will basically need to note compile later on.)
But right now. I'm not quite sure what to do with them. I'm not quite sure how to use those thoughts. How to make something of them, how to repeat history.
I was feeling pretty fucking lost in Steven Universe 2, but I at least had a

plan

there to become unlost. Didn't work as expected, but I had one. Here, I'm still trying to figure it out and I'm not quite sure how to accomplish that.

[mastina]

Okay but. Like does it say the scum team has access to the death star. The scum team contains the death star. You know that death star has these abilities. How is that phrased.

The role PM describes what the Death Star does.
The Death Star abilities are scum abilities (ninja, strongman, bp) which when activated give one of three effects to the WHOLE scumteam.

So of those, "you know the death star has these abilities" is the closest, I guess? If I'm understanding the question.
The PM says effectively, "This is the Death Star", and then lays out the three abilities the Death Star possesses, all of which trigger for the whole scumteam.

I'm not sure I can give a better answer than that because that's all the information I have.

[mastina]

mastin check my recent games. I've just been shit. I used to be bad but I've gotten even worse. I get why this looks all orchestrated cause orchestrating bullshit is my favorite thing to do but all I can say is I've done nothing but tell the truth, as good or bad as it looks.

I do promise I'll try. I do owe you that much. But one thing I'm noticing is that you're spending time defending yourself from me. You're treating things like I already have the hammer, that you and TWIE have crossvoted--yet while that's certainly a possibility (even probability), I'm not seeing an effort to scumhunt here (as in, figure out who the scum is), and I'm also not seeing any signs of offense.

I

am

seeing those things from TWIE.

What do you have to say to that?

[mastina]

I think TWIE is scum so I don't see a point in appealing to him

My point here though is that you're basically acting the way scum act in lylo.
TWIE is not someone you're likely to sway--so there would be no point in trying.
There would be no point in casting shade on me, on throwing suspicion on me, because you'd know that TWIE would be going after you, and that it would come down to me, so you'd be focusing on me...which is what you're doing.

As town, I would be expecting you to

not

know for sure that I am town. As town, I would be expecting you to be doing scumhunting. It wouldn't need to be much. It could be a one-liner. It could be a simple question. But I'd expect you to be doing SOMETHING if you were town, because I don't think you as town would hold conviction in a scumread...or if you did.

IF you did hold conviction in a scumread. You wouldn't hold this hesitancy to vote. You'd be pushing TWIE. You'd be on the offensive, trying to explain to me not only that TWIE is scum, but also to trust that you're town.

The thing is, what you're doing falls into neither category, but rather, something which is squarely in the middle, so to speak, trying to have the best of both worlds, the pattern I'd associate with scum: you are appealing to me, but you are avoiding committing, just in case it turns out TWIE has interest in voting me. How am I supposed to see that as town?

[mastina]

mastin in as few words as possible (ideally 1) whats the difference between my scum game and my town game.

Bleh. One exists, I'm sure of it. I know the difference in my head, the concept of the difference between your towngame and your scumgame is clear as day in my head, it's just finding the right English word to translate that I'm finding difficult.

Like. Closest I can think of are along the lines of: Focus. Content. Attitude. Approach. As town, you have a tendency to still be useful even early-on, though you specialize at the lategame. Your basic methodology is subtle, slight, minimalistic pushes, where the goal is to set your later game up. You tend to banter more as town, at least, more naturally. Like, your scum banter still exists, sure, but...it's different, and I'm not quite sure what words to use to explain the difference (aside from maybe the above) between them because honestly the difference in your banter is one of the strongest indicators of your alignment yet how exactly to describe what makes your town banter be town and what makes your scum banter be scum I'm not quite sure how to place into words.

As scum, your tendency is still to be minimalistic. You lurk. You post very little content. You do a lot of prod-dodges. Fuck, you even try to be useful in the early-game! But your focus in said early game is actually TO make you look good. As town, you might give some subtle content early-on, but you're mostly setting up for a lategame push, a reveal of sorts. As scum, you give the content early-on, but the intention is to look good, rather than to set up a plan.

I think that's the word for it, actually. The Plan. The plan as scum is: "Avoid attention. Look good. When surviving later in the game, given these factors, nobody will be surprised, allowing for scum to endgame". The plan as town is: "Don't bother putting much effort in early; it's a waste of time. Do little things, and gather notes. Keep things in mind, and if living long enough, later in the game analyze all that's been given".

I saw signs of the latter basically immediately, and nothing you've done or said has actually changed my conclusion there, which is why by play I'd think you'd have to be town: NOT ONLY does Molla look like scum by play, BUT ALSO, you look town by play, at least, my understanding of your play.

[mastina]

and also whats the first post i made that made you think i was town.

You were a townread before your slot became yours, so I was already biased in thinking you were town. I townread Indigo's entrance. Gamma did nothing to diminish it. If anything, if scum had daytalk, I'd expect 696 to be posted in a scum topic rather than in the game thread. Admittedly, not the strongest of townreads. But above null, and you did nothing to make me instantly go at you.

Looking at your iso, I'd say the first post I'd call "more likely to come from a town-TWIE than any other alignment" would maybe be the chain of posting in 986, 990, and 991. Though, that said: I think I was also biased by recent experience of your scumgame. In Steven Universe 2, you never once willingly laid down your vote until the day of your death. So, you entering with a vote did look town to me at the time though in hindsight I think that was actually null since PRESUMABLY, you not voting is not actually a scumtell/you voting is not a towntell. (Still,

at the time

, I thought you voting was a town move, not a scum move.)

1012 also looks town in your iso. Like, there are other posts I am skipping which I think are town posts, but they're posts which could feasibly come from scum even if I think they're more likely to be town. It's like I said, the things you were doing and focusing were more or less my expectation of you as town, not you as scum, and they existed basically immediately.

I could go on, but you asked me to do the first posts in your iso, not your entire iso.

[mastina]

the worst part is i asked you to out that knowing that if you knew it it wouldnt even help me.

Eh there was value enough. It told you that I'm not scum bullshitting.

For what it's also worth--I still hold it true, even today, that in what I'm seeing, you look town. You look like you are actually thinking. You look like you are actually considering things. But Molla doesn't. I do owe this game a full redo though: a rethink on the conceptual level, NKA, VCA, scum isos, and looking at both of yours for those interactions.

I don't want to promise a timeframe to finish this. But I do want to promise that I am thinking.

I am truly sorry, Molla, if you are town and TWIE is scum--but that's one reason that I need to do this. I need to really think about how plausible, how feasible, things are. And to spend some time crunching the mental math on the setup, and the plausibility of possibilities. Maybe research mod meta if I have the time. There's lots of work I should be doing, and I know from experience I'm not going to get it all done. Fuck, it's possible I'm dragging out the inevitable just like last time and if that turns out to be the case, then I am truly sorry, but.

I need to get it right. And this is me, trying to get it right. (I'm sure the dead thread is bitching and moaning about me at this point, but they got the PMs I've sent, so they know just as well as I do exactly what my issue now is.)

[mastina]

Posting here to say, probably not posting tonight: there's some white stuff on my kitten's nose. Now, a quick google tells me I should

probably

not be concerned.

Most likely, kitty litter. (After all, she has some basically permanent black stuff stuck to her fur under her chin which I assume is food dried into her fur; this wouldn't be much different.) Maybe dry skin.

Still, all the same: I want to alert my family of this and keep an eye on her until I can personally deliver the message, so...not going to post tonight even though I planned to.

Sorry.

[mastina]

Standing implies that I am firmly on two feet.

I very much am not.

Like. The implication of standing is that there is a

stance

behind it.
I have conflicting ones. I don't know anymore.
I really, really don't.

I should have a lot more to say.
I should be doing a lot of work, instead I've been putting it off, slacking off, doing miscellaneous shit like updating my wiki (I'm basically browsing the Scummer Subpages, not to mention, looking at the actual Scummers in question, to see if I can steal their formatting/ideas for stuff on my own wiki), adding articles to the wiki, and editing articles, all of that rather than actually being here in the game.

And that's detestable on my part and it's a bad habit that I need to cut out because I need to stop fucking putting this game off out of my fear, and yet that's exactly what I've been doing because that's what I'm experiencing is a lot of fear, of being wrong, of making the wrong choice, of having things not work out the way I want them to. I'm not even sure I'll get to this game tonight even though frankly right now it

should

be my top priority. Should be, but I haven't eaten, I haven't done my daily blog, I haven't done my work blog and I suck so will probably still do something else which is...not this game.

I will try though.

[mastina]

Fucking

hell

, this is bullshit. I knew today was gonna be bad the moment I woke up and I was told, "Hey, stay off the computer, we're gonna be fixing stuff".

I had no fucking clue it'd get

this

bad. For a start, my dad insisted that the problem between the computer and the monitor was something breaking, rather than the far fucking more likely, loose connection. Then, in his incompetence, he managed to shut the fucking computer off WITHOUT KNOWING HE HAD DONE SO. He insisted that to fix the computer would require disassembling it, so who fucking knows what he has broken.

So here I am on my damn LAPTOP. The one which is abysmally slow. Oh and did I mention half of what gives it power is suddenly missing and so, will soon die?

And it takes me literally HALF AN HOUR to get my fucking laptop to actually get a damn internet connection because it boots up that damn slowly (admittedly, mostly my fault; I have a lot of shit open and a lot of it likely has memory leaks), meaning that this message is going to take a while to reach you and the ONLY way I am going to be able to post is if my some MIRACLE the fucking desktop ends up actually fixed.

[mastina]

Bleh.
That's not news I needed to hear.

I've got to do a few things, but will absolutely need to give this game attention.

[mastina]

[mastina]

What the fuck I swore it was 1:30 not 4:45.
I need to get sleep, so I need to go to bed, so while I was planning to post in here it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

[mastina]

Fucking hell.
We are not fucking no-lynching in fucking lylo.
We. are. not. fucking. no-lynching. in. fucking. lylo.
But I will not be around at the time of deadline.
I have one window where I will be online tomorrow--ONE. Prior to the deadline. And that's a small window. (Three hours

at best

.)

So I am here.
And working on this game.
Because apparently I need to.

I was reviewing Steven Universe 2, and I think I'm going to put my notes from there to good use. As much as I can anyway.

[mastina]

I suppose it'd be a bit late for answers here, but. Have to try all the same.

TWIE, Molla:

Can you summarize the game itself? Include any details you think are relevant.

TWIE, Molla:

Can you give your thoughts on roles in this game? Any insight.

TWIE:

Can you describe why you are town?

Molla:

Can you describe why you are town? Not "but I am town". I mean give me a reason to believe you are town.

TWIE:

Why would Molla be scum?

Molla:

Why would TWIE be scum?

Spoiler: To-do list

-I need to review my own iso, and succinctly pick up all relevant points.
-If possible, review time of inactivity--is any time strategic?
-Look for someone encouraging wagons on town, especially while off said wagons. (Comes from scum.)
-Look for signs of frustration when defending town and/or fencesitting. (Town.)
-When rereading, look for buddying towards flipped scum (probably comes from town), but it must be buddying, NOT defending.
-Similarly, look for scum buddying towards unflipped players. (These both indicate town.)

-Look for how valuable a scum player was when pushed: town lynch the most dangerous; scum bus the least useful.
-Town protect PRs; scum out, discredit, marginalize, and kill PRs. Look for who did which.
-Town will also protect town more; scum will protect scum more. See if one is more true in a player.
-Town will try to convince others that their read is right; look for signs of this happening.
-Town will try to dispel misunderstandings, whereas scum will try to dismantle opposition entirely. Look for this vital difference.
-Scum will survive bandwagons, whereas town tend not to. Look for this.
-Scum will attempt to frame town, especially avoiding responsibility while doing so. Look for this.
-Scum attempt to force town to make mistakes which they can then exploit.
-Scum are survivalistic; look for that. Similarly, they'll focus on trying to convince a player they are town; look also for this.
-Scum try to get compliance from town, and will ask for permission. Town don't care. Look for this.
-Scum will attempt to handle scumbuddies, directing them to optimal positions and play. Look for evidence of this occuring.
-Scum will attempt to make the town waste energy. Look for this.
-Scum will test the waters. Look for this.
-Town will try to find town/scum, and convey it when they have done so;
Scum will attempt to manipulate others, such that they misread the mindset of one another.

-See why the lynched town were lynched. Review their points, and how valid they were.
-See why the killed town were nightkilled.
-Look for signs of a player breaking the chain in town information.
-Similarly, review the players who were known to be accurate: who talked them down? (Or, at least, attempted to.)

-Observe townblocs: how they formed/fell.
How solid were they? What caused their collapse?
Did they form naturally, or artificially?
Who dismantled them (especially natural ones)?
Who was present in the artificial ones? (Especially if absent from a natural one.)

-Look into the mindset of players, and see what their interactions were for--did it make sense to think that way?
-Look at the circumstances--how, why, and when someone did what they did, and the nature of the interactions.
*Timing is everything, as is accountability and thoroughness.
-Look into the motive of actions: what did this hope to accomplish as town? Does that make sense? What did this accomplish if scum? Which is simpler? Which is more likely?
*Basically, find the reasoning given and evaluate its validity.
-Figure out the intention of actions, by analyzing strategies used, what said objectives were, and how well their behavior supports them.
*What drove them to do this?
-Analyze why a player was, or wasn't, on a wagon.
-Find the player who most keeps their options open. (They're probably scum.)

-Cognitive dissonance (actions not matching words) will indicate scum, especially from a rational player.
-Use pattern recognition (look for trends in the data), and value the simple patterns highest.
*Mindset/motive/intention WILL show in said patterns.
-In analysis, speculate, but don't assume.
-Weigh the possibilities versus the probabilities, using said trends.
-Look for signs of consistent wrongness across the whole game,
ESPECIALLY consistent failures to advocate for scum death.
-Ultimately, I'm doing guesswork.
-Go with my instinct. (Not bias. Instinct.)
-Be okay with the call.

I've got a personal PT where I can dump notes, so I'll be keeping some of this private, but I'll share any of the pertinent information as I go through this.

[mastina]

Basically. You will get my posts tonight.
And then you will respond when you log in.
And then I will see your responses tomorrow, at approximately 1-5 PM (give or take an hour or two on both ends) PST. (Or PDT, whatever, you know my timezone. 2:30 AM as I type this, so ~12 hours from this post.)

I'm not voting tonight.
But that window I talk about will be my ONLY chance to vote tomorrow.
So this is literally it.

You guys get ONE interaction with me.
ONE.
To decide the fate of the game.
So you better fucking make it count.

[mastina]

im vigging the ever loving shit out of drunken sailor, im not dealing with that self post restriction all game

Molla. What was the point of this post?

[mastina]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: zefiend

This is literally the first mention of the zefiend slot in your entire iso--what spurned the vote there?

[mastina]

Scum off the wagon was TWIE it's more interesting to discuss scum on the wagon

Interestingly enough, all three of us were OFF the SirCakez wagon. Titus and zefiend were the scum on the wagon.

[mastina]

MoI is most certainly scum I think? I don't see many scumteams that wouldn't include him.

This is also literally the first mention of the Titus/MoI slot in your entire iso--what spurned this comment?

[mastina]

wow im sure this will be productive. cant wait.

I'm sorry what concerns me doesn't concern you. What are your concerns?

What I dont get is why she lied.

if you cant explain the scum reasoning behind it then why do i care. like cool cant wait for the 2 of you to argue about what you talked about in pms when your conclusion is well i dunno why she did it. great. like shes already scum reading you so she sees things you do as scummy. shock awe gasp.

TWIE, what spurned this comment from you?

[mastina]

id be pretty okay with zefiend titus or molla lynches i think

Why'd you say this without voting, when you had earlier shown you were perfectly willing to lay a vote down?

[mastina]

Something I also need to review is the given character abilities. I'm basically looking to see if the claims make sense. I have thoughts there, but I need to organize and verify them.

[mastina]

Molla might be scum.

I kind-of want to trust my early reads to be right, here.
I was right about Pine.
I want to also be right on Molla.
But I'm not sure--if Molla were scum, then why would I still be alive? He's had seven nights to nightkill me. Sure, one of those nights I insisted he was town the day before, and the following day I expressed no opinion. That's still 5/7 nights where I had him as a scumread. So why not kill me? ESPECIALLY when my read had changed? (Okay. So admittedly. I said in my last will, essentially, "If I die. Lynch Molla. Period." So while my read

had

changed, it's not impossible for Molla to have figured out that my last will would say something to the effect of "if I die it's because I wrongly changed my scumread on Molla so lynch him if I do end up nightkilled".)

[mastina]

Pine? Nah, if he escapes, short of a cop guilty on him, he'll wiggle out of whatever we try to throw at him especially after I'm the N1 nightkill.

Oh I had NO idea. (Okay so technically it was a gunsmith, butstill. Pine's wagon was

losing

momentum prior to Drunken Piper outing the guilty if I recall correctly so he really WOULD have gotten away with it, too, especially since there was strong momentum on town by my memory.)

[mastina]

(Speaking of, this would be a perfect time to do a detailed VCA, but I should probably finish my iso work first. Me, then the scum, then the mod.)

[mastina]

Because crying is reserved for the losing side.

(Incidentally, I will fucking cry if we fucking lose this game because of a fucking no-lynch. I mean. I will vote prior to the deadline. But the only options there are for me to vote wrong and be endgamed, or for me to vote right. And if I vote right yet we fucking no lynch. Then I will fucking cry. I will eat the endgame if I end up being wrong. I would deserve to lose. But a fucking NO LYNCH? In fucking LYLO? So damn fucking straight I'm expecting you two to respond to me, and either vote, or be around after I have

cast

my vote.)

[mastina]

Oh. Right. So I'll still be checking out the VCA to make sure, but.
I'm not sure how much good it'll do. TWIE basically hasn't voted the entire game, and that's been a rather deliberate choice on his end. Molla is also, from my memory, largely off the major wagons--in short, basically both falling into the same position I'd be looking for the last scum, with no obvious discernible difference between the two. I'll still need to check my mental math here on the VCA, to make sure there isn't a pattern which very strongly suggests something, but I don't think it'll be as helpful as it would normally be.

[mastina]

Weren't you just saying Pine could read BBMolla? Now they're buddies?

No, I was saying I could read both Pine and Molla and both are scum.

This seems like a really fucking important post as well. Titus was misrepping my position on Pine and Molla. We know Titus was scum, and we know Pine was scum, so there was already at least some extensive reasoning here, but the question is whether it's both or just the one.

[mastina]

How often do you guess scumteams on d1?

Pretty damn often. Now I'm not saying those teams tend to be perfect--but they

are

usually around 50% accurate at

minimum

, so.

That, and TWIE

Because TWIE replaced Gamma who replaced Indigo who was town. Also TWIE has towned the thread up just from his entrance alone (well, it's town if you know him anyway--the content he gave is not his scumgame and anyone who knows him, knows it isn't his scumgame), so.

I also really want to trust these. Like. I know my accuracy has gone downhill as of late. Very notably so in fact. I've gone from catching nearly the full scumteam to catching half, if I'm lucky. But.

I still want to fucking believe.
That I was on the right track.
That I was headed in the right direction.
And. Well, my reads did notably improve.
So I want to think that this one was also right.

I'm just. I'm not actually sure. It'd mean that on D2, I had three of the four scum. And Titus was basically at null and continuously slid south the entire game and MoI did nothing to bounce the slot up--quite the opposite he continued to degenerate and became a scumread.

I'm just.
I'm not sure I can actually nail an entire scumteam like that.
It'd be a really fucking good ego boost, yeah.
It'd be something I desperately need for my confidence right now.
Yet.

It feels too good to be true.
Even though I REALLY want to trust that yes it is fucking true.

[mastina]

Why is Tina town?

Because I'm a Classically town mastina.

Oh right this.
I totally forgot about this 'crumb.
When I claimed, I referenced my force sensitive 'crumbs since Princess Leia is in fact force sensitive.
But here I capitalized the C in Classic, because the idea here was to mention that I am a Classic Star Wars character, Princess Leia.

[mastina]

If you want to correctly identify a strong player as scum, you could always drop Pine from null to scum, and then bam. There ya go! Correct scumread on a strong player.

So I was reading this, and the thought crossed my mind.

"What if Pine's still in the game?"

Like.

What if one of the reasons it's this fucking hard to have reliably caught scum.
Is because the WIFOM mastermind isn't actually gone from the scum?
That being.
What if Molla's claimed special ability to talk to a dead player

is

real...and he used it on Pine?
The idea of there being a role to talk to a dead scum player feels like it'd be a really neat ability, and I think it might help to explain some things in the game. VCA dodging among them.

[mastina]

Fuck it'sd getting late.
Like.
Reallyu late.
Beginning to lose coherency late.
Fuck.l
There;s just.
There's just so much I need to do. And nt nearly enough time for me to do it.
I'm not sure if I can continue. When the fuck did it get this late? But I can't give up. I'm finding alsp at the keyboard, yet if I stop, tomorrow is going to be a rushed clustefuvk. I don't know why it's hitting so hard.
I was like. Fine five minute s ago.
Yet typing is a crash right now. It's just. I don't know what to do.l
I really want to pull an all-nighter, yet. I;m not sure I can actually be useful right now.
I need sleep, yet when I will awake we'll be dangerously close. It's like 4 AM right now and I've been working here for an hour and a half yet I'll be resuming probably at earliest w2 PM which will mean that I get 3 or so hours because circa 5 PM I need to start prepping for dance and that means no more posting which gives me that limited window to cast a final vote.
There's so much more I want to do here.

But I really don't have the time for it. I;mn at the mercy of my mind. I'll sleep on the matter. Literlaly. As in, quite literally. but sleepytime needs now.

[mastina]

I'm actually kinda skeeved out that you're around, TWIE.
That you're around as if waiting for me to vote.

[mastina]

Especially since you didn't actually address any of my questions/requests to you. Yet you've had plenty of time to do so.

Yes I know that you're normally not the type of player who would go into detail about this sort of thing, but.
This is fucking lylo.
And I am paranoid-as-FUCK right now.

[mastina]

i have a question for you

So do I! (Well, plural.) I'll answer yours if you'll answer mine.

[mastina]

Mine shouldn't be, either!

[mastina]

and yet here we are. and i havent answered your questions. and you arent voting me.

I'm looking into things right now. Because between the things I

didn't

mention yesterday, and this attitude of yours, I am very, very much freaked out.

[mastina]

Last visited:Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:57 pm
Post #4142 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:57 pm
So Molla's last visit to the site was quite literally this game with that post. Meaning that if he's lurking, he's doing so offline. (More likely, he flat-out just isn't around.)

[mastina]

this would be my attitude regardless of my alignment though. so. would you like to hear my question

Yes but that's the frustrating thing. Your games are, to you, very very very largely identical. There are subtle differences. But they're largely the same--yet. There's timing. You're here

exactly

at the time I said I was going to be around. Not before. Not after. Exactly at the time I said I would be here. (I was actually a bit late, both for ~reasons~ and for my internet connection failing...twice.) What am I supposed to think?

Molla's absence actually looks like negligent town.
Time and time again. I've seen the trend. Where town who were near the brink of being lynched. Just. Haven't been around to give the content they should have. Or they were around...just, too late.

You fucking KNOW I've been leaning towards Molla being scum.
You fucking KNOW that I have also stated that before I leave I'll be casting a vote.
And you show up at the designated time, as if waiting specifically for me.
What am I supposed to think of that? Just coincidence? Something that you would be around for regardless of your alignment at this given time? At this time SPECIFICALLY, no less? Especially since you're going out of your way to be around right now? (You post largely in the evenings similar to both Molla and me, just at a time slightly before I am around.)

[mastina]

i hide my online status. i assume a lot of people do

It's not whether you would.
It's whether Molla did--he does not.
When people hide their online status, that Last Visited box will always 100% of the time show "-".
Molla's last visit was here, in this game.
He's just flat-out not around.

You

are

around.
And I realize that there's the slimmest of chances Molla's following the thread offline.
I realize there's also the significant chance that regardless of his alignment he's lucking out at my last-minute paranoia in his absence.
But right now. You're engaging me. And you're making excuses. You're dodging. You're deflecting. You're addressing my issues on the surface yet not actually addressing the underlying issues. Responding to the literal words without responding to the intention, the meaning, behind the words.

[mastina]

my question is time sensitive.

Yeah! And so are mine.
Because I'm on the fucking clock. Two hours. Exactly two hours from the time of this post. That's all I have left. That's the only window in which I can be guaranteed I can vote before deadline. (I'll double-check the math, to see if I can get home, log in, and cast a vote after dance and have it still be before deadline, but if so it'd be really fucking close.)

And you're avoiding me.

[mastina]

im waiting for you to acknowledge that im going to ask you something. then im going to ask it.

Consider it acknowledged then.

[mastina]

Day 8 ends in 0 days, 7 hours, 42 minutes!

It being 3:43 at the time I loaded this, that means:
7 + 3 = 10.
43 + 42 = 85.
11:25.

Dance ends at latest 9:45.
At most it is an hour's drive.
So I get home at 10:45 or so.
Meaning there is a window for me to vote in. A very fucking small window, but a window all the same. If need be I'll phonepost the vote. But right now I am not fucking voting.

[mastina]

cool then go copy paste me your last will from last night.

Last Will:

If I die, lynch Molla.
If I live, I intend to reread the game.
But if I die, it was Molla who killed me.

Both TWIE and Molla know that I reevaluate in lylo, yes.
But TWIE saw me in Steven Universe 2 and how in spite of doubting my RR read I ultimately saw it through--here he would expect me to do similarly, so if he was scum, he would let me live and mislynch Molla. Meaning, my death means Molla's scum.

Antihero and TTH wouldn't nightkill me. They'd either no-kill or kill Molla. They wouldn't leave me around to wonder why they were alive. So if I die, it's because Molla killed me. If I don't die...well then typing out a last will isn't very useful now, is it? I'll still be alive to scumhunt. But for the time being, this will do.

[mastina]

I'd give you the timestamp there, too, but I'd rather avoid getting modkilled.

[mastina]

(It was on Wednesday March 15th, I can tell you that much, but what time I don't think I can legally do.)

[mastina]

thats the most non mastin last will ive ever seen.

I could have probably made the wording stronger, in hindsight, yeah. I could have been firmer. I could have spoken with a far more fucking commanding voice. But I included all the content necessary: If I die, lynch Molla. Period. If I died, it's because Molla killed me. TWIE if scum wouldn't nightkill me because he saw me in Steven Universe 2. He'd know I'd doubt myself and really think things through--but I ultimately stuck to my guns in Steven Universe 2 and TWIE if scum would have no reason to believe this game was different. If Heartless is scum, then they wouldn't want to leave a question as to WHY they were around. A kill on me would make people wonder why they were around and I wasn't around. If I didn't end up nightkilled then there wouldn't be a point in the last will and I'd be reevaluating my stances if alive so there wasn't a need for me to pursue other options unless that did come to pass. (Which it did.) I conveyed all of that. I didn't do it perhaps as well as I should (in fact, looking at it, I actually made a really fucking huge typo ), but I wasn't aiming for a long wall.

I knew that the longer my wall.
The more I typed out.
The less likely it was that my message would be received clearly.
I needed to keep it short and simple.
I needed to keep it basic, and to the fundamental facts.
Nothing complex. Nothing like a full case. Just simple truth. Because that's what I knew would be listened to.

[mastina]

Alright. I THINK I'm ready.
VOTE: No Lynch.

Right about here. The last will was submitted just before this post.

[mastina]

(Okay. So technically, it was about half an hour before. But that was still Wednesday, March 15th, by my timezone. Early AM, but still March 15th. Whole, live on the west coast and post past midnight, thing.)

[mastina]

if youre scum who do you nk last night?

I'm honestly not sure.

Probably

not you. You have talent in the lategame which I would be terrified of (the thing which keeps it from being definitely not you), but you were also Molla's leading scumread, and furthermore, you were a weaker townread of Heartless. Your death would pit me against Heartless (a player considered conftown the whole game) and Molla (a player Heartless was very fucking strongly townreading as their last will showed).

Probably

not nobody. I was the one who came up with the Last Will plan, so it'd be a bit pointless for me to after coming up with that plan, not take advantage of it with a nightkill. (Then again, that would've been the best way to subvert my plan, so maybe.)

I'm honestly not sure when it comes to Molla versus Heartless.
Heartless has been a universal townread the whole game--yet was not conftown. There were signs players were doubting Heartless yesterday, which meant in lylo it might be possible to mislynch them. Furthermore, if I let Heartless live, then I'm pretty sure that Heartless would side with me rather than with you in a TWIE-mastina fight. So for those reasons, it would be viable for me to kill Molla.

...But then again, Molla has been my consistent scumread the whole game--it would be easier for me to let him live and have a nice, convenient lylo suspect. The thing is, Molla's been inconsistent on his reads. That level of wildcardness is not ideal come lylo. And if killing Heartless, there's no clear advantage for me. I'm not at a distinct disadvantage, admittedly...but I'm also not at a distinct advantage. You're not so easy to take advantage of. Molla's been inconsistent. So as scum if I killed Heartless I would be left with an unsure lylo, something I would probably want to avoid. Then again, with Heartless as considered conftown the whole game, paranoia might not be as much of an ally as ideal.

But I'm not quite sure about this. As scum I'd have been thinking about my endgame since the beginning of the game, but as town I only have a best guess as to what the plan with me as scum would be. I suppose, given these factors, I'd

lean

towards killing Molla, outside chance of killing Heartless. But I don't actually KNOW.

[mastina]

i couldnt peg down your nk in my will either.

Great, so now that we've established that I'm

probably

not scum (because if I were scum it would be easy to peg who I would kill), with me having answered your questions, would you kindly return the favor?

[mastina]

TWIE, Molla:

Can you give your thoughts on roles in this game? Any insight.

TWIE:

Can you describe why you are town?

TWIE:

Why would Molla be scum?

^These three. Roles aren't busywork because they're really fucking relevant given Molla's claim to be one and Heartless's last will (which you so consistently have been quoting) was so strongly emphasizing. I want your words rather than a quote of Heartless's.

I want your words on why you would be town rather than my words for it. I've done more fucking work to defend you than you have.

I want your words on why Molla would be scum. Here I'd accept quotes of me, but I'd at least want to see YOUR reasons for it. If you aren't 100% committed to calling me scum (and you obviously aren't, since if you were by your own admission, you would be voting), then there must be at least some shred of reason you are considering Molla and I want to see it.

None of those are busywork.

[mastina]

i really kinda just want it to be molla and for this to be easy and for all of my reads since thinker to have been right all game. yeah fuck it. i think id vote molla over heartless

...

This close

to voting Molla.

The long analysis I'm not sure of being town without research--I think it's town (since TWIE is right, he hasn't done that much all game), but I'm not sure it's town. But this line I have an incredibly hard time seeing coming from scum. If you're scum, fuck you TWIE because that's EXACTLY. EXACTLY the fucking thing that I was thinking and it's exactly the thing I needed to hear.

[mastina]

literally i think ive been obvtown since pine day 2. opening the thread after PV died is just bonus. my literal only readslist this game was 2 scum and molla and yet when we hit mylo i wanted to no lynch instead of pushing through with the molla lynch that was clearly going to happen and that i could back up wanting.

You're not wrong! I've thought of those things, too.

But I still have one hour left (plus the extra window) and I want to do as much as I can to make sure I'm not wrong here.

I really think it's Molla.
I really don't think it's you.

But I don't want to fuck this up. So I want to be sure.

At this stage I'm at the point where I'm thinking I might be okay losing to you, but I want to put aside as much of that remaining doubt as I can.

[mastina]

Fuck. Started doing this, but it's taking too much time. I'm basically out for now.

Pine-A-Tonics

[6]

The Thinker, Aj the Epic, Infinity 324, Desperado, Heartless

, PrettyPrincess

SirCakez

[3]

Drunken Piper

,

Aeronaut/zefiend

,

alban/Nachomamma8

BBmolla [1]

Pine-A-Tonics

The Thinker

[1]

KuroiXHF/Nero Cain
Infinity 324

[2]

SirCakez

,

Titus/MagnaofIllusion

Desperado

[1] BBmolla
Not Voting - [3]

Klingoncelt, Lil Uzi Vert/PeregrineV

, Indigo/TheWayItEnds

Pine-A-Tonics

[6]

The Thinker, Aj the Epic, Desperado, Heartless, PrettyPrincess

,

Infinity 324
SirCakez

[3]

Drunken Piper

,

Aeronaut/zefiend

,

alban/Nachomamma8

Titus/MagnaofIllusion

[3]

KuroiXHF/Nero Cain

,

Pine

,

SirCakez

PrettyPrincess [1]

Heartless

Drunken Piper

[1]

Lil Uzi Vert/PeregrineV

Infinity 324

[1]

Titus/MagnaofIllusion

Aj The Epic

[1] BBmolla
Indigo/TheWayItEnds [1]

Klingoncelt

Not Voting - [1] Indigo/TheWayItEnds

Pine [5] The Thinker, Aj the Epic, Desperado, PrettyPrincess, Infinity 324
SirCakez [2] Aeronaut, alban
Titus [3] KuroiXHF, Pine-A-Tonics, SirCakez
PrettyPrincess [2] Heartless, Drunken Piper
Infinity 324 [1] Titus
Aj The Epic [1] BBmolla
Indigo [1] Klingoncelt
Not Voting - [2] Indigo, Lil Uzi Vert

Rogue Leader Vote:

SirCakez (1): PrettyPrincess
Drunken Piper (1): Heartless

I'll be back tonight to cast my vote.

Deadline is at 11:20 PM or so Pacific time.
I will be around at 10:45 or so Pacific time.
So I will cast a vote at that time.
If it's a hammer, then it's a hammer.
If it's not the hammer, then the town player better the fuck be around in that window to place the fucking hammer vote.

It'll give me that one last chance to think it over. I tend to do a LOT of thinking during dancing (there's a fair amount of idle time during which I will pace and pacing produces thinking), so I'll be reviewing my notes away from the keyboard.

[mastina]

"You may fire when ready."

VOTE: BBMolla.

[mastina]

Dun Dun Dun Dun Da-Dun
Dun Da-Dun...

[mastina]

DUN DUN DUN DUN Da-Dun
Dun Da-DUN~......

[mastina]

We will deal with your rebel friends soon enough...

[mastina]

Kinda funny that mastina brought up a vc that made her look WORSE instead of better, and that soon after came the final vote and hammer

I mean yeah it did but I sure as fuck wasn't going to admit it.

I notably avoided VCA this whole game actually which shoulda been a tipoff--one of the three queens of VCA not doing it until literally moments before the deadline? Yep. Scum.

But hey. You live with the cards you're dealt. (I really wasn't supposed to be the endgame player which is why I was so pissed off at that guilty. *I* was supposed to be the guilty result, dammit! My early Pine interactions were specifically designed so that upon my lynch, Pine would be auto-cleared and coast to an easy endgame.)

For what it's worth, my role was Encryptor. My special was reviving a scumbuddy for one phase. (Molla's power was actually a close mirror to my own in that regard, another reason that we lucked out.)

Also, that Molla vanillaize was totally my idea. Worked out SO much better than I coulda ever hoped it was. And I was also the one driving MOST of the nightkills this game. Nacho was my idea. Desperado, me. Infinity, also me. Drunken Piper, yep, that was mine. AJ, I killed in a panic because I omitted that our Death Star JOAT (1) didn't work on members of the rogue crew, and (2) could only function when the rogue crew was active, meaning I had no fucking strongman kill at my disposal and AJ's jailkeep really WAS dangerous to me. (I diverged from the plan by killing AJ.) Heartless, that too was me.

The one and only nightkill this whole game which wasn't my idea was the Nero Cain kill, which was Pine/Gin's idea. (Because that was the phase I used my power.)

[mastina]

Oh goodness molla flaked out on end of game for basically the entire last 24 hours? Ouch, not a cool way to end it

Yeah, I would have won by default from a no-lynch. But, I think ending the game on a lynch was more appropriate anyway.

It really frustrated me that neither Molla nor TWIE were voting; I wanted the game to end two weeks ago and I knew it was most likely going to be a scum win at that, so *I* didn't want to drag the day out. I wanted it over quickly and painlessly. But optimal scum play is to not cast the first vote (ESPECIALLY not on TWIE who could have held a role such as vengeful or supersaint), and that meant that I needed to wait until TWIE voted Molla, or make a really fucking convincing case on TWIE when hammering him. Both which required me to wait for the town players to act first, and Molla never did whereas TWIE only acted when Molla/myself did meaning the one and only time he was really around posting strongly was when I was at the last day.

I'm sorry to all the townies who had to live through that. Not the best way for you to end up losing.

[mastina]

The way you phrased the death star shit matched exactly the scum team ability stuff from hunger games.

At Pine's suggestion, I actually omitted information.
And when I later asked Firebringer what the formatting would be for my safeclaim, I learned...
...That if my role were real, he WOULDN'T have omitted information.

Quite literally, this is what he told me:

Death Star:

Once one of these abilities are activated, the Rogue Crew is notified of the ability activated and its effects.
All of these are one shot abilities
If a majority of Rogue Crew is scum, none of these can be activated
If the Rogue Crew is disbanded, none of these can be activated
These can be activated only at night and only one per night

Cloak field:

Scum are ninjas for the night none of their actions can be seen, this will not include specials. Rogue crew actions cannot be blocked/manipulated/etc.

Firing the Death Star:

Scum can perform a strongman kill. Rogue crew becomes immune to kills for the night (including this strongman)

Impenetrable Hull:

Scum become immune to death for the night. Rogue Crew gains a rolecop check.


This is how I would do it.

...Our scum PT, when it's released, will show you how that is literally the exact fucking wording we had.

So I was actually scumclaiming because I

didn't

give you everything. (I mean, I was scumclaiming in lots of different ways across the whole game, but that was among them.)

[mastina]

Everything is released automatically except the Scum PT, they have 48 hours to decide if they want it released or anything redacted.

I already gave my explicit permission to release everything. I owe Antihero a good read, after all. <3

[mastina]

Why did Pine/Gin want to kill me but not you?

Because I wanted to fucking endgame you for being an absolute asshole whose entire reason for scumreading me was utterly wrong. You had ONE aspect where you identified what made me scum that was correct--but you added it as quite literally a fucking AFTERTHOUGHT. If your entire posting had been like that one point I wouldn't have objected so strongly to your death, yet because it was a fucking afterthought and your entire reasoning for me being scum was just you being an absolute asshole, I had no desire to reward your terrible behavior with a nightkill, because it would inevitably end up boosting your overinflated ego.

You thought that when I said this during the game it was a scum lie, right?

Newsflash:

It wasn't.

[mastina]

Kinda surprised you guys let heartless live that long. In the danganronpa theme game scum dayvvigged tth like immediately on day one (and that was probably their single biggest win eliminating her so fast)

The

idea

there was threefold.
One, we figured that Heartless would be the target of any protects/watches. Normally I don't care for that sort of thing, but we were playing an increasingly tight scumgame requiring increasingly more precision.
Two, we figured there were just higher priority kills almost every night. Nacho

terrified

me. Desperado I know is a good lategame player and as a member of the rogue crew was conftown. Infinity was the closest townie to being right at the time of his death and he had the charisma to get people to listen to him so I wanted him gone. Plus he was conftown so nobody would question his death. Drunken Piper was reasonably accurate and was conftown so needed to die. We had originally planned to leave AJ alive and as long as AJ was alive we had to leave Heartless alive, and the only reason this changed is because I needed AJ dead in order to win the game.

Three, my main reason, Heartless was just too damn accurate and I knew that if Heartless died, then that would cause the town to unite behind them. So I was waiting for them to get paranoid. I was waiting for their reads to change, from accurate to wrong. They never did, and that's one of the main reasons both MoI and zefiend ended up lynched, so it was probably a bit of a mistake, holding out for the hope of them suddenly having a shift from right to wrong.

[mastina]

Especially considering that both you and Pine have admitted that it was planned that way.

No, but you see.
You got it wrong.
I wasn't bussing Pine so that I would get town credit.
I wasn't bussing Pine because I thought Pine would go down.
I was fucking bussing Pine because I thought *I* was going down.

So your reasoning was exactly the fucking

opposite

of accurate.
I was bussing Pine because I was expecting Heartless and Infinity to drive a lynch through on ME. Infinity had me nailed dead to rights that this was my scumgame. Heartless had my slot nailed and when I came in my presence did nothing to weaken their read on me. Between them, I was under the impression I was a walking deadwoman, so the plan was for me to make sure that my attacks against Pine would set Pine up to survive.

There was ZERO plan for Pine to die. He was our fucking endgame player. (So was Aeronaut, btw. The plan was me to die, and Pine to live, with Aeronaut too. Titus was semi-expendable as well, but I knew I was the least-valuable member of my team.) There was EVERY intention for ME to die. I was the person who was most obviously scum of our team and I was the person who was most obviously going down first.

Pine breaking into the rogue crew had literally NOTHING to do with this, because that was something we did expecting Pine/Gin to talk their way out of and they fucking WERE talking their way out of it.

Then the guilty happened and all our plans went up in smoke. (By the way, goddammit, Drunken Piper, you magnificent bastard you. You have no fucking idea just how much you wrecked the scum's plan.)
But the simple fact is you WEREN'T right.
You couldn't have been more wrong.

I joined expecting to die.
Not expecting to be the final scum.