Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[PeregrineV]

Greetings all!!
Not sure who I'm replacing, but will read up over the weekend. Fun full posting on Monday.

[PeregrineV]

Starting the reading-

I'm sure I'll find out some of what I want to know as I read. If not, will check here.

First- do we have anyone who has claimed to have been vanillized by Pine-A-Tonics?

[PeregrineV]

bbmolla

night 1 or 2?

[PeregrineV]

I kind of don't want to know, but how did the vig get lynched day1?

[PeregrineV]

ok, back later or manana

[PeregrineV]

also n2 Cakez did not target anyone.
if you were curious if he was walking around with a gun.

Track result?

[PeregrineV]

50 seems a reaction to 49 which seems a reaction to 47.

Find it hard to believe PineTonic calls out scumbuddy-Titus for her voting infinifty, and telling her to back off (57 , 60).

If PineTonic whiteknights a town player, it most likely is from another town player, not from a scum partner.

Unless I find something that informs me otherwise, I have Titus as leaning town.

[PeregrineV]

also n2 Cakez did not target anyone.
if you were curious if he was walking around with a gun.

Track result?

(DP sees the question...and just stares at Pere...silent)

???

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Nero for Rogue Leader

About the Rogue Leader thing, I think it's a disservice to vote yourself as captain. The way it's set up, it's like we can vote to lynch someone and that's who we think is scummy, as for voting for rogue leader, it's like voting for who your strongest town read is.

Basically, if you're town, then people will see that and you'll be elected and it seriously discredits a whole other dimension to the game that can be analyzed if you vote yourself.

/Gin

Also don't think scumbuddy shoots down partner for trying to gain advantage in the game. I think they would instead also vote themselves to back the idea up, that way if either gets picked, scum benefit.

Nero leaning town

[PeregrineV]

He tracked Cakez, who didn't move.

Then what was the night1 result?

[PeregrineV]

Back on page 28, but Mastina leaning scum.

[PeregrineV]

it's a ROGUE crew ability, I think they're 1 shot by night.

OK. Haven't gotten to day2 yet.

[PeregrineV]

I'm no where near having read the whole game, but I started with a Pine ISO and jumped into points there.

@Mastin-

My biggest issue with your claim is the point in time you came up with your Pine scumread (post 512).
You then "read", and confirm it with your vote 520.

this is followed by "Molla might be scum" (521). Based on progression, this read comes from:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Desperado

Y'all suck for not letting me OMGUS

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AJ

I think it's enormously likely scum participated in the player count discussion

alban probably town btw

Going back to the actual game at hand, I'm content with our vote on Titus because Pine brought up a good point that it feels off to have a strong personality saying she caught scum right out the gate but have the level-head to produce VCA which apparently she's good at doing.

this is dumb reasoning

not scum, but it's dumb

is this actually why people are voting titus

Titus does this shit like every game. Its null.

ding ding ding

VOTE: SirCakes

im vigging the ever loving shit out of drunken sailor, im not dealing with that self post restriction all game

oh yeah aj is still scum

Meanwhile, Pine tries to open dialogue with you in 517, never before talking to you or mentioning your name.
Then this stuff:

Spoiler:

How do you look at blank votes and pick what is town and what isn't town?

I use the force.

Or if you prefer, fuckin' voodoo shit.

Actually no, that answer means absolutely nothing. I'm still content with my question until I get a real answer.

/Gin

Actually no, that answer means absolutely nothing. I'm still content with my question until I get a real answer.

It was a real answer!

I'm force-sensitive! I know things.

I've read a lot of your articles and wiki links and I expect you to follow your own advice in looking in the motivations behind the post and not at face value.

First rule of mastina: do as I say, not as I do.
Second rule of mastina: If it doesn't look like I am doing as I am saying, there's at least a 50% chance you're reading it wrong and I am in fact doing exactly as I say.

Granted, there's the 50% chance that I did in fact not follow my own advice, but this? Not one of those times.

Think about that for a moment.

I've read a lot of your articles and wiki links and I expect you to follow your own advice in looking in the motivations behind the post and not at face value.

First rule of mastina: do as I say, not as I do.
Second rule of mastina: If it doesn't look like I am doing as I am saying, there's at least a 50% chance you're reading it wrong and I am in fact doing exactly as I say.

Granted, there's the 50% chance that I did in fact not follow my own advice, but this? Not one of those times.

Think about that for a moment.

Oh my god you're like a modern day sphinx

Okay no, seriously. How did you judge RVS votes as town/scum?

both ^^
/Gin

Okay no, seriously. How did you judge RVS votes as town/scum?

I'm force-sensitive, I told you already. I used the force.

Which looks like a bunch of /Gin posting

But, by 584, you have sloidifdied that Pine-a-tronics is scum.

At least she's Town this game.

Yes I am! You, however, are your usual scumfuck self!

And this:

Pine is also scum. I prefer to vote Pine, in spite of SirCakez being scum, because lynching scum is lynching scum. The who or the why isn't as important as the act itself. Obviously I'll vote SirCakez if I can't lynch Pine. That goes without saying. But Pine is the scum I would prefer to lynch, because my scumread there is not only stronger, it is also on a firmer basis (I know Pine better), with better reasons, and also on someone who WILL slip away if you let him go.

Meanwhile, neither head of the hydra tries really hard to break you from your read, nor do they try to engage you that I can see. If your sure Pine is scum based on his 5 posts, yet the Gin side does nothign to affect your read?

Sounds kind of fake.

Triple ISO of Pine-Mastin-Molla

Code: Select all

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=69912&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=28641&user_select%5B%5D=29138&user_select%5B%5D=16026&user_sort=Go

[PeregrineV]

Kind of at 53. I think Heartless and Infinity can go in the town group.

[PeregrineV]

SirCake into the scumpile also.

[PeregrineV]

Scum is in {AJ, aero, pere, TWIE, molla}

Mastin convinced me that molla is possible but not that's it's likely.

Have to ISO cakez but I doubt he's in there.

You're a townread because of Pine's treatment of you, not because your reads are right.

Try better, please.

[PeregrineV]

Was Kling or Desp a vig shot?

[PeregrineV]

Scum is in {AJ, aero, pere, TWIE, molla}

Mastin convinced me that molla is possible but not that's it's likely.

Have to ISO cakez but I doubt he's in there.

You're a townread because of Pine's treatment of you, not because your reads are right.

Try better, please.

No. If you'd like to discuss any read in particular I'd be happy to. But I'm not gonna say "gosh darn you're right, my reads are shit" just because you say so.

Sure. Your AJ read and your Aero read first.

Why do you think they are scum?

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Mastina

What did the Rogue Crew or whatever do night1?

What did they do night2?

Looking at the votecount stuff, why was the night1 group changed form what it was?

[PeregrineV]

With aj, I don't like how he talked about being a better scumhunter on later days but hasn't really done any of that, instead he's largely defended himself and posted fluff today. I also didn't like his reaction to the heartless vote.

As an objective veiwpoint, he has been posting his reads and how he reached them.

As for fluff, you sound like Pine:

Right now I do have a couple questions as I'm confused on the purposes of some people's actions.

First one is about the RVS stage and SirCakez, I was quite puzzled when Infinity said he didn't like the wagon forming on Cakez and then Cakez voted Infinity soon after. Question is mainly for Sir because I don't see what would make him vote Infinity after saying that.

The next one is what AJ thought was overblown when he said it in post 48, the follow up question is after Infinity asked him what AJ's thoughts about it was, is why he never continued his questioning of Infinity?

Also if I'm correct in the terminology, his posts are fluffy?

I know it's the RVS stage and it's hard to pick stuff out, I just don't know why an actual opinion hasn't been formulated from that slot in regards to anything useful.

Also, Pine is trying to set him up to be the next lynch:

Alban, whats your opinion on the cakez wagon and do you think AJ is the better lynch or no?

His reaction to the Heartless vote seems normal, since he's townreading the slot (509, 939).

---

With aero, it's partly that he caught up and then disappeared, partly zefiend's catchup which I find very scummy, and partly trusting mastin.

He was replaced, so there is that.
I totally think Mastina is scum.
Aero's Pine interactions don't look like scum with scum. Aero should be neutral or hostile, not questioning or friendly. (1075-1076-1118-1119)

[PeregrineV]

Scum is in {AJ, aero, pere, TWIE, molla}

Mastin convinced me that molla is possible but not that's it's likely.

Have to ISO cakez but I doubt he's in there.

You're a townread because of Pine's treatment of you, not because your reads are right.

Sell me on this, please.
I wasn't seeing it while reading.

412, Pine responds to request (from Drunken to Cakez) for case with "ISO infinity", when Pine has pretty much stated "no read"- this is treating infinity like he is scummy
550- Asking infinity to get info for him- treating infinity like town
1210, 1218- Pine still treating Infinity like he is town

It all looks like Pine was trying to buddy infinity but keep him in a null pile for a future mislynch.

[PeregrineV]

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

Pine & Mastin interaction was zero. And most of the "Pine" was the other hydra head.
Mastina did not "sort" PineTornics, she already knew he was scum.
And he didn't fight it, no matter how often she repeated it over and over again, because no way did they want a 1v1 with each other.

[PeregrineV]

Gin mentioned this once without a push and that's it, there's no reason why that couldn't be shade on a buddy.

Why bother when he could just ignore his buddy. Nobody gives credit for shade.

That made me look at who was chasing AJ at the time, because a little bit of shading could help the cause of a scumbuddy.

[PeregrineV]

Given that I think cakez is most likely town atm, this is not very convincing. I'm not sure about the context, but I think it's definitely plausible that scum would suggest their buddy as a possible wagon.

Why is Cake a townread?

[PeregrineV]

Mastin is town imo, also I could definitely see those interactions being distancing.

Mastin is scum.

For fun, ISO Pine and yourself. See how he treats you.
Then ISO Aero and Pine. See how he treats Aero.

Get back to me with thoughts.

[PeregrineV]

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

This is so scum

He thinks Mastin is town too.

[PeregrineV]

Pine & Mastin interaction was zero. And most of the "Pine" was the other hydra head.
Mastina did not "sort" PineTornics, she already knew he was scum.
And he didn't fight it, no matter how often she repeated it over and over again, because no way did they want a 1v1 with each other.

Mastin was lazy/busy, pine was avoiding her. I think that explains it

Why would Pine avoid her when he could fight her to push a mislynch on her?

Lazy/Busy mastin with 4th most posts in the game?

Who else is Mastin treating the exact same way?

[PeregrineV]

You're saying you think Pine and mastina would have planned the whole thing out from the time she was "scum-reading" him?

It's a hard pill for me to swallow.

Why is that unbelievable?

I think it annoyed the shit out of Pine, but Gin didn't care, he just knew not to fuck with the plan.

Pine has like 3 excuses why it was OK for Mastin to scumread them.

[PeregrineV]

Because it's easiest to find scummy things from people you know are scum, and that makes it look like you're scumhunting. Also it might stand out if you just ignore someone.

Pine ignored Mastin.

Scum can't scumhunt there own team too hard, because then they either have to full on bus, or back off and flip thier read on them. That kind of move starts to look obvious.

[PeregrineV]

Because his wagon grew quickly, died slowly, and was not CW'ed for forever and a day. Plus his thoughts were all over the place and seemed to be organic. (need to iso for specifics and verification on that second part)

would like to see specific posts.

This wagon?
SirCakez [7] Aeronaut, alban, Nero Cain, BBMolla, PeregrineV (as 'lil Uzi), Infinity 324, Aj The Epic

[PeregrineV]

:sigh:

[PeregrineV]

I'm amazed that everyone hasn't auto-sheeped Mastina.

VOTE: Pine-A-Tonics

This is pretty cruddy, for obvious reasons

Thinker - you asked for a case on infinity. But what do

you think

about him?

[PeregrineV]

Treating Mastin the same way as pine or infinity, peregrine?

Mastin has the same read on Cake- as Pine. Said it in practically every post I read. Had no interaction with him. Cake was also OK with it.

Spoiler: Whay Cake is scum- by Mastina (day1 only, expires after that)

@ Mastina I don't buy the Cakez wagon as a righteous town wagon at all and I have no clue how you've arrived at that interpretation.

Well SirCakez is scum, so there's that. There maaaaaaaaaaaaaaay be bussing involved in the SirCakez wagon (would have to double-check who the voters there are), but that doesn't change the fact that he's scum. Lynching scum is lynching scum.

Which, speaking of, is why I am voting Pine.

could you do me a solid and go over cakez?

Given that, one, there is a wagon on SirCakez, and two, SirCakez is not my current vote?

...No. I'll give you something on someone who is scum and won't be lynched without me giving you said something, but if they're just gonna get lynched without me needing to, I'm not gonna spend my time there. It's a waste of effort.

@ Mastina I don't buy the Cakez wagon as a righteous town wagon at all and I have no clue how you've arrived at that interpretation.

Well SirCakez is scum, so there's that. There maaaaaaaaaaaaaaay be bussing involved in the SirCakez wagon (would have to double-check who the voters there are), but that doesn't change the fact that he's scum. Lynching scum is lynching scum. Which, speaking of, is why I am voting Pine.

????

What's there to not get? I don't care about the wagon composition on SirCakez (though looking at Desperado's list of the names, there's really none that are incredibly objectionable--the worst is LUV and even that's possibly from town), because SirCakez is scum. It doesn't matter if his whole team were bussing him. It doesn't change the fact that he's scum.

Pine is also scum. I prefer to vote Pine, in spite of SirCakez being scum, because lynching scum is lynching scum. The who or the why isn't as important as the act itself. Obviously I'll vote SirCakez if I can't lynch Pine. That goes without saying. But Pine is the scum I would prefer to lynch, because my scumread there is not only stronger, it is also on a firmer basis (I know Pine better), with better reasons, and also on someone who WILL slip away if you let him go.

SirCakez? I can lynch him any day. Literally, any day. As long as I'm alive. And even if I'm not alive, he could probably get lynched because there's enough support for his wagon that even postmortem my words would be advocating for his death.

Pine? Nah, if he escapes, short of a cop guilty on him, he'll wiggle out of whatever we try to throw at him especially after I'm the N1 nightkill.

So while I'll vote SirCakez if necessary, as far as I'm concerned, right now...it isn't necessary.

Let me word it to you this way:
I go where I feel I am needed.

I am needed on Pine.
I am not needed on SirCakez.

If it turns out that I can't lynch Pine, and it turns out that I am needed on SirCakez, I will switch to him.
But otherwise, I'd prefer to go on Pine, if for nothing else to make the statement that, yes. Pine is scum.

It's not that hard a concept to grasp.

Thinker who is scum?

Apparently I am by virtue of Thinker most definitely surely actually truly being town. Clearly.

Thinker's posting continues to underwhelm. That meta defense was awful.

Yes, exactly my point.
I'm not sure how more obvious my sarcasm could've been in that post, and the fact that you're pretending to have not known it was sarcasm is one of the reasons you're scum.

@ Cakez wagon: who else will you guys lynch? It's stagnating and I don't see anyone trying to push it forward.

Aside from Pine-and-Gin, my current vote?

I'd vote The Thinker.
I've laid out my reasons for why Molla is scum.

I'm pretty sure that's our scumteam: SirCakez, Pine, The Thinker, and Molla, so I'd prefer not to vote outside of there.
MASSIVELY prefer not to vote outside of there.
Like, you could maybe talk me into spite-voting a more nullish read like LUV, but I'd vote there fully expecting a town flip rather than a scum one.

If you want to lynch scum, lynch Pine.
Else, lynch Cakez.
Else, Molla.
Else, TheThinker.

Infinity
Drunken Piper
Nacho
Aeronaut
AJ the Epic
TWIE

Heartless
Desperado
Titus
Klingoncelt

Nero
LUV

The Thinker
Molla
SirCakez
Pine

Thereabouts. Molla, SirCakez, and TheThinker are all pretty equal; LUV and Nero keep trading places; the lines in the town list are a bit arbitrary and I could place dividers between Drunken Piper-Nacho, Nacho-Aeronaut, Aeronaut-AJ, Heartless-Desperado, Desperado-Titus, and Titus-Klingoncelt; I cold remove the divider between Heartless and TWIE; I could keep the dividers exactly as they are and switch around almost any of the names in most sections; it's a really, really loose approximation.

{Nero Cain, Desperado, Heartless}
{Drunken Piper, Aeronaut, Titus, SirCakez, Nachomamma8, Aj the Epic}
Null: {Pine, TheWayItEnds}
{Klingoncelt, BBMolla, Lil uzi vert, mastina, The Thinker}

You realize you share half of my scumreads, right? (Molla, Thinker.) And have a third of my scumreads in your null pile (Pine), while having one of MY nulls in your scum pile (LUV)?

And for that matter, aside from SirCakez and maybe Aeronaut, your townreads are literally identical to mine?

This is what I was talking about.
You have good reads. You and I are thinking many of the same things.
Yet you and I don't seem to have the capability to actually work together.

I don't know how to fix that.

I mean there was a 5 man wagon on SC. She came in and was all like "lets vote Pine!" Essentially all wagons do start out as vanity wagons. She's saying that her vote on Pine was

NOT

a vanity vote since she's now being sheeped and I'm just not the biggest fan of the explanation.

Well it wasn't.

I voted Pine expected to be followed.

Do you, realistically speaking, expect to be followed with your vote on me?

Because I did feel like I'd be followed when voting Pine. I figured I might need to provide some basis for it to justify to vote. So when people asked, I gave it. And my answers were apparently satisfactory enough where people started voting Pine after I did. Meaning my vote wasn't vane. It was with purpose: lynching Pine, and lynching Pine first.

I already explained this to you before.

If the Pine wagon didn't take off, I'd have pushed it harder. Given more reasons. Given stronger basis. And tried to get it to go through.
If that still failed (it didn't), if after all of that, nobody would vote Pine? I'd leave it there for as long as possible AS vanity, as a statement, but not to the detriment of the town. If SirCakez as scum was lynched without me, so be it. I feel no need for towncred. I have him as a scumread, so it doesn't mean I need to vote him when everyone else was. If SirCakez as scum looked like he was going to live, then if there were no other wagons on scum, I would intervene. I would hop right back onto SirCakez and drive that wagon through, because lynching scum > lynching town.

Yet that never became necessary, because Pine became a wagon. And as a result? Pine lynch > SirCakez lynch > other scum lynch > town lynch. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about this concept. Not all scum lynches are created equal. Some hold priority over others. Lynching Pine is a top priority. Failing that, lynching the largest wagon on scum. (Which at the time was SirCakez, but now is TheThinker.) Don't allow town to be lynched. Push for the scum to be lynched. If a lesser scum is lynched without me on it, so be it. If a lesser scum needs me to be there, I will go there, otherwise I won't. I'll stay on the greater scum. Especially since lynching the greater scum is a realistic possibility. Lynching Pine is an obtainable goal...so why would I settle for SirCakez? Just because he's also scum? Just because I'd want towncred for being on the lynch of scum? Fuck no. If you feel the need to be on the lynch wagon of every scum player, you're playing the game for the wrong reasons. Being accurate, and being where you are needed most, are more important skills to have. And I'm needed most on the Pine wagon.

It's really that simple.

Mastin is still probably scum, she definitely needs to explain why she townreads klingon.

Experience.
Wait a couple of weeks and I'll probably be able to tell you more about it. If you want me to talk now, I have to keep it vague and generic and unspecific as possible, which...I basically already have done?

Also, that TheThinker wagon was town as fuck with two obvious, glaring exceptions:

VOTE: Pine-A-Tonics.
(The other is SirCakez.)
Aeronaut has moved into full-blown scumread territory. LUV's push on me makes me think that, short of Pine coaching them to do exactly that (not impossible, mind you), they are probably town. The fourth remains Molla.

Half-on, half-off.

The stalling signifies to me that scum were happy with the game state and weren't being wagoned until klingon got traction. Or: none of the wagons were scum and we were just able to lynch thinker at the end due to compromise. But the wagons on pine, AJ, and cakez stood long enough with little enough opposition that I'm comfortable calling them town.

Alternatively: the wagon on SirCakez was on scum, and morphed into the wagon on Pine, also on scum. Scum used deadline and players' suspicions on TheThinker to rush through a quicklynch on town, rather than on scum.

I still maintain that the majority of that wagon is town, but the Pine and SirCakez votes are egregious.

Are we still "almost in RVS", mastin? Cause your play hasn't changed much from yesterday

What game are

you

reading?

Sure the fuck isn't this one because I'm going absolutely

ballistic

to try and get you to lynch Pine-a-Tonics.

There are some things I am avoiding--quite deliberately in some cases. I have reasons for that, not all of which I can elaborate on.

But what are you asking for?

I'm telling you exactly why Pine is scum.
I'm telling you why Gin's head is still scum.
I'm laying out their actions.

I'm pointing out why SirCakez is scum.
Molla hasn't even posted much of anything so there's nothing to point out as scum aside from that he hasn't posted much of anything.
And Aeronaut was prodded meaning he hasn't actually posted much of anything. They're not posting, so obviously I can't point out why they're scum if they're not showing it, now can I?

But for Pine, who IS posting?

I

have

been.

What do you want that I haven't given? I've given you the VCA. NKA. I've given you the mindset. The motive. The interactions, the tone, the content of the posts. They're scum. I guarantee you.

I need to reevaluate townreads since I was wrong about Pine and Klingon. I feel safe with this vote though.
VOTE: AJ

"I swear I'm going to reevaluate my reads, but here have a vote which...is not me reevaluating my reads".

The problem is that no one has really done anything scummy

Try looking at players like Aeronaut and SirCakez for a start.

There's others I have in mind, but that'll require me to effort on rereading and pointing out sections--something I hope to do tonight anyway, but certainly not before I first get caught up on the game.

Oh, right. That reminds me.
VOTE: Aeronaut.
I wasn't actually voting. New day, Pine's dead, and all that.

K-2SO, JOAT
1- shot Deflect, 1-shot Redirect, 1-shot Rolestop

Okay.
Fuck the vanillaized claim.
VOTE: BBMolla.
BBMolla was a scumread of mine D1, and this is a scum role full-stop.

Molla's claim to be vanillaized is almost assuredly a gambit.
And, yes. That sort of wifom claim is something

exactly

up Pine's alley.
It's his modus operandi, even. He SPECIALIZES, absolutely SPECIALIZES. More than any fucking player in the game. SPECIALIZES in wifom gambits. And it was his role they gambited on.

Now, not sure whether they actually used a vanillaize shot on Molla. Could work either way. Lying allows Molla to get away with using these abilities and also has the side-effect of making people never want to target Molla. (They assume, "Oh, Molla was vanillaized, he must be town and thus not worthy of being looked at".) Using it truthfully allows for stronger wifom and the possibility that if Molla was, say, watched, then nobody would call him out on the bullshit.

Both have the ups and the downs.
But this claim?

This was a scum role. Through-and-through. There's ZERO town use in those abilities, outside of specific situations.
The scum use of those abilities is obvious:
Redirection, need not be said. Basically one of the strongest possible scum abilities and was blacklisted from Normals for damn good reason.
Deflection, much the same: protects a scumbuddy from harm.
And rolestop?

We just learned that the Rogue Crew had a vig kill.
We also know that TheThinker was a 2x-vig.
What do you think that rolestop shot was meant to be used for?

It's a scum role. Simple as that.
Molla's play is scum (I'll show that in a bit), Molla's claim is scum, he's just scum.

Trust me on this.

Spoiler: Cake defending Mastin scumread of Cake (probably Pine too)

The amount of text in this game just doubled in a page
I'm excited for another round of arguing with mastina

The amount of text in this game just doubled in a page
I'm excited for another round of arguing with mastina

What are your first impressions on Mastina?

/Gin

Still think the slot is town, just irritated that she's going to be annoying me by holding her cryptic scumreads over my head while being completely closed to engagement

In his own post, he had other places that he looked like he wanted to go and settled with me

But is it really.

Yep, I'm not sure what this quote is supposed to show

I sometimes wonder if Mastina just RNGs her reads and then tries to explain them. That would be funny.

It's mastina Piper
Don't expect her plays to line up with what she's saying

Where did Titus write me off as bad town?

I'm to lazy to ISO to get the quotes but basically when I said your vote on Titus was bad then she was all like "oh hey how is this diffrent than all the others times I've been wagoned unjustly." or something along those lines.

I don't recall this at all.

I sometimes wonder if Mastina just RNGs her reads and then tries to explain them. That would be funny.

Hey, lets talk theory!

So, as scum, I think that calling a player town is kinda buddying or pocketing to use the new jargon. I think alot of players are stupidly OMGUSY so when a scum player calls another player town then its less of a chance they get voted and I think, atleast subliminally, when a player knows they are town and are being called town they kinda go "Oh hey X is reading me correctly so they must be town too!" This is my first time playing with Mastina but I've played several times with her on the Mastin2 account and I know that she has entered the game in a similar style in the past. Was she scum that game? Town? She likely does this regardless of alignment although she's fairly scummy here.

She does it regardless of alignment. It makes me wonder if her "lists" and quote walls where she goes "town, town, scum!" are just for WIFOM.

Also, I like Heartless.

#HeartlessForRogueLeader2017

That's a

Vote: Heartless for Rogue Leader

In case mod wants to be picky.

Don't dodge my question

Aero's lack of presence when he has been posting elsewhere on site is concerning

Ok I get trying to start new wagons but these 4 vanity wagons should not be a thing

^^^

^ that is what I mean by rambling

And while nice, it's the kind of ramble that I can easily see being fake.

They're mastina rambles, they're NAI.

So yes, I'd like to know why I was demoted from top tier town and leapfrogged by someone on your null list (Aero) and someone that you were considering moving to null (Piper)

Why do you care so much about this? Looks like something odd to be stuck up on.

Also I know this will never happen today but my Titus read is really heading south. Nothing she's posting is memorable and she's hardly contributing in general.

the part where you were saying her play around klingon makes sense as scum

Attempting to pocket Klingon by backing off of her was what it looks like now.

Pine's behavior around mastina means she's probtown, agreed.

[PeregrineV]

This wagon?
SirCakez [7] Aeronaut, alban, Nero Cain, BBMolla, PeregrineV (as 'lil Uzi), Infinity 324, Aj The Epic

Yes, that one

OK. When you find the posts that explain why Cake is town, we can disucss the wagon makeup. I have lots of townreads on it.

[PeregrineV]

PV, talk to me about your Titus read.

Sure. I think she's town at this point.

[PeregrineV]

50 seems a reaction to 49 which seems a reaction to 47.

Find it hard to believe PineTonic calls out scumbuddy-Titus for her voting infinifty, and telling her to back off (57 , 60).

If PineTonic whiteknights a town player, it most likely is from another town player, not from a scum partner.

Unless I find something that informs me otherwise, I have Titus as leaning town.

This mostly.

[PeregrineV]

Plus scum-Titus has 4x times the shitposting, in order to wreck the most havoc with town as possible.

Plus, I'm saving a hard-ISO of her until after more flips, since I read/misread her at about 50%.

[PeregrineV]

I actually tried to use an action but was reminded I was vanillaized

We have no way of knowing if you were actually vanilliaized, correct?

Or is this confirmable somehow?

[PeregrineV]

My biggest issue with your claim is the point in time you came up with your Pine scumread (post 512).

To understand what happened, you need to know the events which transpired: I started reading from about page 18 (that was the spot I noticed that there was a slot up for replacement), until I was caught up to the latest post. (The spot I actually began posting.)

This got me some initial reads, like Drunken Piper and Heartless as town and I believe Pine/SirCakez both as scum. I lacked a lot of game context though.

Then, I went back to the beginning of the game, both for the value of the RVS and to fix that issue.
And started reading chronologically.

And there, you can track which page I was on with my thoughts by the quotes before, after, and during statements. For instance, Molla became a scumread on some page--I didn't quote it, but he did a series of postings around one page in particular which made me think, "This looks like Molla as scum". You conveniently put quotes here, and from memory I believe it came in that 236 - 254 range.

Meanwhile, Pine tries to open dialogue with you in 517, never before talking to you or mentioning your name.

No fucking shit?
I wasn't in the game, PeregrineV.
I'm a replacement.

It's a little fucking hard to talk about a player who's not in the game yet, now, isn't it?

Pine started talking to me the moment I actually entered the game. My SLOT is mentioned in their iso, though. Admittedly, only once, in 280, but it's there.

Meanwhile, neither head of the hydra tries really hard to break you from your read, nor do they try to engage you that I can see.

What the fuck are you reading?
Pine was constantly. CONSTANTLY. Saying, "Oh, lol, mastina's wrong again". Gin engaged me multiple times and said, "mastina is wrong". You want to get into this quote war, you WILL FUCKING LOSE because yes while I may not have been QUOTING many of Pine's posts, I sure as fuck wasn't blind to them and was reading each and every one of them remembering them QUITE well so I know

damn

good and well you're spewing bullshit here.

If your sure Pine is scum based on his 5 posts, yet the Gin side does nothign to affect your read?

Why would it?

Gin's posts were null-at-best to me. Some of what Gin said was scummy, some of it was null, none of it was really town.

Whereas Pine. You know. The head I have the game history with. Was scumposting at every step of the way and I KNEW it was his scumposting. I had the game experience to call it what it was.

Welcome toReck's Restrospecitve Rehash.

Code: Select all

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=59569&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=2441&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_sort=Go

ChannelDeliBird busses Nexus in post 168. CDB rides that to win the game.

Welcome to NY172

I read a few of your posts, and felt it was your scum game. It was.

Code: Select all

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=41158&f=55&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=12314&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_sort=Go

Right now, I think this is your scum game, based both on your posting, and general scumplay in the past that is highly similar.

[PeregrineV]

SirCake into the scumpile also.

Yes, he is, and I'd be happy to bus him if you'd vote with me there! Push come to shove, if nothing else.

Let's see it.

Vote: SirCakez

[PeregrineV]

And I need you to stick with it, since you called SirCake as scum by post 16.

[PeregrineV]

I was vanillaized.

Which sucks cause I would have had a permanent PT with Nacho

I think BBMolla is probably town.

[PeregrineV]

Vote Rogue Leader: Drunken Piper

[PeregrineV]

Vote Count 2.00

Not Voting - [15] Aeronaut, TheWayItEnds, Heartless, Infinity 324, AJ the Epic, Pine-A-Tonics, Desperado, SirCakez, Drunken Piper, Klingoncelt, BBmolla, Titus, Nero Cain, mastina, Lil Uzi Vert,

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2017-02-08 12:26:20)!

I was vanillaized.

Which sucks cause I would have had a permanent PT with Nacho

Molla claim comes 11 posts into day2. I don't see Molla saying this for town credit unless Pine already knew he'd been copped.

[PeregrineV]

Either scum had to risk a broken situation occurring by holding one of their vanillaize shots, or whenever Pine flipped we'd get 3 vanillaized claims for two shots.

This is a good point actually. What do you think mastin?

Another issue I have with the molla!scum narrative is why pine would risk dying before using all his shots given the day1 wagon thing and him joining the rogue crew.

People need to engage the people they disagree with more.

See 2428. And i thought he was lynched from a guilty, not because he joined the Rogue group.

[PeregrineV]

Also I'm full JK and locked Cakez two nights in a row. This was said in the claim.

VOTE AJ

I probably dont need to read anymore,
seeing I didnt get a "no result" on cakez, you whore.

I will continue reading, to see what this is to see.
but unless i was redirected, the next scum has been caught, who wants to thank me?

You were suspicious enough of Sir Cake to do your thing to him, and your wondering why AJ was suspicious enough to jailkeep him? His iso is full of arguing his Cake scumread.

This is some strange ass logic- do you think AJ is bussing Cake?

[PeregrineV]

it is my understanding the a JK, makes the "target" untargetable.
"no result" was not my result label.

That's rolestopper.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: AJ

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

If cakez was on jail, he could not do an action.

DP would have gotten that result, not Cakez did whatever.

So excuse me for being annoyed at your lecture spam.

If you know Drunken Piper's claim is consistent with AJ's claim, why does that deserve a vote on AJ?

[PeregrineV]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

(DP reads this following..."A Jailkeeper that

simultaneously blocks and protects their target

is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, provided that any mutual blocking scenarios are planned for during review. Any role that receives results (such as Tracker or Watcher)

but is blocked

should receive a "no result" message, rather than told their target didn't go anywhere or nobody visited their target. A Jailkeeper cannot stop a Strongman from committing a kill.")

You were not blocked, Cake was blocked.

I'm not sure if people are really this unsure of roles and how they work, or are intentionally misrepresenting them on purpose....

I'm feeling like it's the latter.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: SirCakez

I'm more willing to do this than zefiend, but it has much the same problem.
Would SirCakez flipping scum actually get you listening to me?

Yes. Bussing you entire team will make me listen to you. If you happen to be town, then you are playing to your wincon in lynching scum.

Also, I don't feel the need to establish myself as town by lynching yet another scum. That won't stop idiots from scumreading me, and it won't give people who

aren't

scumreading me any more proof than what they already have. In short, it won't change how people view me at all, because they'll make excuses or because they already knew and didn't need proof.

What I DO need to do is to lynch the scum who aren't getting lynched without me pushing there. zefiend is scum, who can be lynched today or any day. SirCakez is scum, who I feel can be lynched any day but there may be resistance, which is why he's a slightly better lynch than zefiend. But BBMolla? Molla, if left alive, won't be caught. He will get away with it. And that's why I'm not moving my vote unless I have no choice but to move my vote. Today we will lynch scum. I guarantee you that much. It's just a matter of which scum we lynch.

So that is a no on lynching SirCake your scumread for 100+ Mastina posts?

I am really shocked.

[PeregrineV]

...this is the guy that got a guilty on pine

Yes.

Where are you at with reads at this point pere?

I think they are all out there.

Mastina & Cake are scumreads, TWIE a null (unread), most others leaning on the townside of null.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV has been prodded.

Sorry thought this was in night.

I'm here.

[PeregrineV]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

(DP reads this following..."A Jailkeeper that

simultaneously blocks and protects their target

is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, provided that any mutual blocking scenarios are planned for during review. Any role that receives results (such as Tracker or Watcher)

but is blocked

should receive a "no result" message, rather than told their target didn't go anywhere or nobody visited their target. A Jailkeeper cannot stop a Strongman from committing a kill.")

You were not blocked, Cake was blocked.

I'm not sure

if people

are really this unsure of roles and how they work, or are intentionally misrepresenting them on purpose....

I'm feeling like it's the latter.

so are you saying I scum?
that leaves me sad and numb.

No, if I did, I wouldn't be voting you Rogue Leader.

[PeregrineV]

I thought you said you thought piper was being intentionally obtuse wrt setup, so how do you townread him? What do you think of him unvoting aj if that's the case?

I don't know if it was intentional. By the end of the posting chain, I don't think so.

I think he should unvote AJ, I find AJ to be town.

More interested in why Titus voted AJ based on the conversation.

[PeregrineV]

huh, putting the below together and it comes to mind,
I dont have a lot in my town column, am I unkind?

Someone tell me why I am wrong,
I even wont make you do it in a song.

TOWN-
Heartless
BBmolla
NULL-Nero Cain, TheWayItEnds, SirCakez, Infinity 324
ɀefiend, mastina
Aj the Epic, PeregrineV
Titus
SCUM-

Mod: you have BBmolla listed twice in the alive "spoiler" on page 1.

Talk about your null and why the people on it are null.

And why is Titus scum in your eyes?

[PeregrineV]

Getting paranoid that he could be scum and pine joining the crew n1 basically guarantees no scum out of that group. Or at least it's very likely. Piper is still probably town but better to be safe.

so as scum, I chose to throw a buddy who had AT LEAST one more,
neutralizing shot day 2, out the door?

you were fine, when you thought you were higher.
in my list of reads, what else has transpired?

(....DP sniffs the air...."yep" he thinks to himself, "bullshit is here")

@infinity

- that was some pretty bad backtracking....

[PeregrineV]

TOWN-
Heartless
BBmolla
NULL-Nero Cain, TheWayItEnds, SirCakez,
Infinity 324
ɀefiend, mastina
Aj the Epic, PeregrineV
Titus
SCUM-

EDIT:

TOWN-
Heartless
BBmolla
Nero Cain
NULL- TheWayItEnds, SirCakez,
Infinity 324, mastina
ɀefiend, PeregrineV
Aj the Epic,
Titus
SCUM

And how is Mastina so high up the lisT?

[PeregrineV]

Reads list pre-thinkover

Piper
Nero
Heartless
...

Post-thinkover

Nero
Heartless
Piper
...

What is there not to get

Well, you made it sound like Drunken bussed Pine.

Now you are saying that you thought over the relative towniness of each player, so much that Nero would now make a better Rogue Leader because he is now more towny than Piper?

[PeregrineV]

I am a fucking jack of all trades.

If you think that:
-Town 2x vigilante
-Whatever the rogue crew has (including at least one kill ability as per Klingoncelt's death and their word)
-Jailkeeper
-JOAT (tracker, the Pine guilty power, some third power which fitting the other two would presumably be investigative)
-JOAT (redirector, deflector, rolestop)
...Plus anything else we have unclaimed (in addition to all the VT abilities, which aren't exactly weak!)...
...Is all town?

this..this is the problem I have with
the amount of claimed town power, seems like a myth.

Probably not, since each VT also seems to have a power.

[PeregrineV]

VC

Vc

Why do you toy with my emotions like this!!

[PeregrineV]

I am a fucking jack of all trades.

If you think that:
-Town 2x vigilante
-Whatever the rogue crew has (including at least one kill ability as per Klingoncelt's death and their word)
-Jailkeeper
-JOAT (tracker, the Pine guilty power, some third power which fitting the other two would presumably be investigative)
-JOAT (redirector, deflector, rolestop)
...Plus anything else we have unclaimed (in addition to all the VT abilities, which aren't exactly weak!)...
...Is all town?

this..this is the problem I have with
the amount of claimed town power, seems like a myth.

-Vigs do not always hit scum
-the rogue crew, in theory, can be controlled/influenced by scum.
-JOAT #2 is pretty much hit or miss.

Not going to bash any of these claims yet until they contradict or get disproven.

[PeregrineV]

reads man reads, it is funny how a "high"
position is the scum side of null (sigh)

Yes. Seems odd, but the assumption is Mastina really toned it up, then scummed it up even more.
or
Towned it up some, then scummed it up more.
or
Scummed it up alot, then towned up some,
or
just scummed it a little, but has mostly been null over three game days.

So I'm asking how the read fluctuated to arrive at where it is.

[PeregrineV]

vote:ɀefiend

He was town 5 days ago. How'd this change?

[PeregrineV]

I'm here. Gonna be busy with class and reports all day so I'll get to this tonight.

Dunno if I'm at L-1 or what's going on since I haven't skimmed yet... I'm VT. Character special ability is a 1-shot boost to target's character special ability. I also identify the base character special ability of my target.

Any info to report at this time, esp. that may confirm/deny existing claims?

[PeregrineV]

I'm here. Gonna be busy with class and reports all day so I'll get to this tonight.

Dunno if I'm at L-1 or what's going on since I haven't skimmed yet... I'm VT. Character special ability is a 1-shot boost to target's character special ability. I also identify the base character special ability of my target.

Any info to report at this time, esp. that may confirm/deny existing claims?

Haven't used the ability yet. FYI, it doesn't check abilities derived from Roles. It checks special abilities which presumably everyone (including VTs) has.

It would be OK in future games to not actually admit that it is unused. Better to leave scum guessing by just saying "no info".

but I get it.

[PeregrineV]

Mastin hit me with your pv read when you have a chance

[PeregrineV]

Get you votes in for Drunken for leader.

[PeregrineV]

Well I mean if AJ is scum he did probably clain his real role. In that case there isn't really a risk of cc

i will consider that if there ends up being a 5 man masonry or some shit. scum getting both a vanillaizer and a jk is ridiculous.

you were Rogue Leader night1 and night2. Who was in your group each night?

[PeregrineV]

And Kling was vigged, correct?

[PeregrineV]

I saw a couple of people mention that Pine's crew joining power was a scum power. Who all was saying that?

[PeregrineV]

We all were highly suspicious of it at first but then some of us warmed up to the slot with gin's posting. I don't remember who did and didn't

Looking at the ISOs of Heartless, you, Desp and Drunken, no one seemed to find Pine scummy for merely joining the Rogue Crew with his power. I don't think he started getting votes until after Drunken Piper started in on him.

However, I'm pretty sure I've read a few times where people in day3 are saying that Pine's power was "obviously scum". Trying to find who said that, to see if they had that same opinion day2 before Pine was actually caught.

But, not finding any of them. Please link them if anyone can find any.

[PeregrineV]

@ 3008-


Yeah, kind of sad that scum has the best Last Will so far this game.

[PeregrineV]

Mastin is still probably scum, she definitely needs to explain why she townreads klingon.

Experience.
Wait a couple of weeks and I'll probably be able to tell you more about it. If you want me to talk now, I have to keep it vague and generic and unspecific as possible, which...I basically already have done?

Also, that TheThinker wagon was town as fuck with two obvious, glaring exceptions:

VOTE: Pine-A-Tonics.
(The other is SirCakez.)
Aeronaut has moved into full-blown scumread territory. LUV's push on me makes me think that, short of Pine coaching them to do exactly that (not impossible, mind you), they are probably town. The fourth remains Molla.

Half-on, half-off.

Ok. So heartless, desp, me, and nacho were in the rogue crew last night, and then pine joined the crew in the middle. This creeped all of us out, but gin made some towny posts in the pt so yeah.

Okay, so that's pretty blatantly a scumclaim.
Heartless, you, Desperado, and Nacho are all clearly town. That's an all-town rogue crew if ever I've seen one. (So, joining had some clear scum motivation.) Further exemplified by Nacho's death during the night. And then, you're telling me Gin made good points in the PT?

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I basically taught TheRealGin-N-Tonic how to town it up behind closed doors. (Not directly, but indirectly, via my theory work. Most recently seen here, but elsewhere too.) Because, uh. Yeah. They're closed fucking doors. We can't see them. It's easier to manipulate two or three town players than it is the entire town.

Was the vig given to someone on the crew or off the crew?

[PeregrineV]

Was the vig given to someone on the crew or off the crew?

[PeregrineV]

Looking at the ISOs of Heartless, you, Desp and Drunken, no one seemed to find Pine scummy for merely joining the Rogue Crew with his power. I don't think he started getting votes until after Drunken Piper started in on him.

Well at first we expressed suspicion of it in the crew, but the next day we weren't as worried

Mastin's been pretty consistent about scumreading pine for joining the crew, don't know about anyone else

She was voting him before the announcement, if you look at the order in which she posted. Whether she read 1506 before posting 1520, I don't know.

Mastin is still probably scum, she definitely needs to explain why she townreads klingon.

Experience.
Wait a couple of weeks and I'll probably be able to tell you more about it. If you want me to talk now, I have to keep it vague and generic and unspecific as possible, which...I basically already have done?

Also, that TheThinker wagon was town as fuck with two obvious, glaring exceptions:

VOTE: Pine-A-Tonics.
(The other is SirCakez.)
Aeronaut has moved into full-blown scumread territory. LUV's push on me makes me think that, short of Pine coaching them to do exactly that (not impossible, mind you), they are probably town. The fourth remains Molla.

Half-on, half-off.

Ok. So heartless, desp, me, and nacho were in the rogue crew last night, and then pine joined the crew in the middle. This creeped all of us out, but gin made some towny posts in the pt so yeah.

Okay, so that's pretty blatantly a scumclaim.
Heartless, you, Desperado, and Nacho are all clearly town. That's an all-town rogue crew if ever I've seen one. (So, joining had some clear scum motivation.) Further exemplified by Nacho's death during the night. And then, you're telling me Gin made good points in the PT?

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I basically taught TheRealGin-N-Tonic how to town it up behind closed doors. (Not directly, but indirectly, via my theory work. Most recently seen here, but elsewhere too.) Because, uh. Yeah. They're closed fucking doors. We can't see them. It's easier to manipulate two or three town players than it is the entire town.

[PeregrineV]

Looking at the ISOs of Heartless, you, Desp and Drunken, no one seemed to find Pine scummy for merely joining the Rogue Crew with his power. I don't think he started getting votes until after Drunken Piper started in on him.

Well at first we expressed suspicion of it in the crew, but the next day we weren't as worried

Mastin's been pretty consistent about scumreading pine for joining the crew, don't know about anyone else

anyone else?

[PeregrineV]

Was the vig given to someone on the crew or off the crew?

whatever night it was.

[PeregrineV]

Was the vig given to someone on the crew or off the crew?

whatever night it was.

Not sure if I want to answer

Trying to pick up another read. Pretty sure it's already been said, but don't have time to dig.

[PeregrineV]

Is there a part where the Rogue crew tells us the good they accomplished last night?

[PeregrineV]

Is there a part where the Rogue crew tells us the good they accomplished last night?

It must be with the part where you tell us in what universe your Aeronaut read makes sense. :3

Show me my Aeronaut read and we can discuss it.

[PeregrineV]

What is with your obsession with the Rogue Crew?
What do you think it does?

I would think that it has some extra ability that would be useful to town.

I would think that with an all town crew and I think a hood, you guys would be able to bounce ideas off each other and improve your reads overall.

At a minimum.

[PeregrineV]

Is there a part where the Rogue crew tells us the good they accomplished last night?

uhhhhhhhh...what?

it's a neighborhood. what exactly are you demanding? bc it kinda looks like ur just trying to sound authoritative in making noise

See my post above this one.

[PeregrineV]

(DP sits an ponders...

last night, he tracked Infinity. today he saw a.) that he wasnt dead and b.) the mod hadnt given him a result. DP wondered why he didnt get a resulted and prayed (consulted) with the powers that be...DP is waiting for the gods to answer his prayer. Give the claimed powers in the game...I should have at least received a "no result". Which makes me believe that the almighty gods have screwed up. DP assumes that the reason that the gods did not given a "no result" was because Infinity is dead and was vanilla..but...he have a claimed Jailkeeper in the game

DP prays somemore...

Oh mighty god(mod) hypothetically speaking if someone died the same night that he was tracked, would the tracker receive a "no result", "some result", or get no notification of anything?

"Went nowhere" or "no result"?

[PeregrineV]

(DP sits an ponders...

last night, he tracked Infinity. today he saw a.) that he wasnt dead and b.) the mod hadnt given him a result. DP wondered why he didnt get a resulted and prayed (consulted) with the powers that be...DP is waiting for the gods to answer his prayer. Give the claimed powers in the game...I should have at least received a "no result". Which makes me believe that the almighty gods have screwed up. DP assumes that the reason that the gods did not given a "no result" was because Infinity is dead and was vanilla..but...he have a claimed Jailkeeper in the game

DP prays somemore...

Oh mighty god(mod) hypothetically speaking if someone died the same night that he was tracked, would the tracker receive a "no result", "some result", or get no notification of anything?

"Went nowhere" or "no result"?

???

If you got "Went nowhere", that is a result that your target sat at home.
If you got "no result", maybe target was ascetic? (Not sure how ninja is handled).
If you don't get an answer back, and you should get an answer, it sounds like you were blocked. (Granted, the mod could also give you no result if you were blocked. Personal preference I guess.)

So, "Went nowhere", "No Result", or are you not getting an answer from the mod, or something else?

[PeregrineV]

(DP sits an ponders...

last night, he tracked Infinity. today he saw a.) that he wasnt dead and b.) the mod hadnt given him a result. DP wondered why he didnt get a resulted and prayed (consulted) with the powers that be...DP is waiting for the gods to answer his prayer. Give the claimed powers in the game...I should have at least received a "no result". Which makes me believe that the almighty gods have screwed up. DP assumes that the reason that the gods did not given a "no result" was because Infinity is dead and was vanilla..but...he have a claimed Jailkeeper in the game

DP prays somemore...

Oh mighty god(mod) hypothetically speaking if someone died the same night that he was tracked, would the tracker receive a "no result", "some result", or get no notification of anything?

"Went nowhere" or "no result"?

???

If you got "Went nowhere", that is a result that your target sat at home.
If you got "no result", maybe target was ascetic? (Not sure how ninja is handled).
If you don't get an answer back, and you should get an answer, it sounds like you were blocked. (Granted, the mod could also give you no result if you were blocked. Personal preference I guess.)

So, "Went nowhere", "No Result", or are you not getting an answer from the mod, or something else?

the gods sent me NOTHING. no mail,
no notification, only that the day had started....oh hell.

Confirm with his holiness that you are supposed to receive nothing.

[PeregrineV]

(DP sits an ponders...

last night, he tracked Infinity. today he saw a.) that he wasnt dead and b.) the mod hadnt given him a result. DP wondered why he didnt get a resulted

and prayed (consulted) with the powers that be...DP is waiting for the gods to answer his prayer.

Give the claimed powers in the game...I should have at least received a "no result". Which makes me believe that the almighty gods have screwed up. DP assumes that the reason that the gods did not given a "no result" was because Infinity is dead and was vanilla..but...he have a claimed Jailkeeper in the game

DP prays somemore...

Oh mighty god(mod) hypothetically speaking if someone died the same night that he was tracked, would the tracker receive a "no result", "some result", or get no notification of anything?

Your targets death should not affect YOUR result.

If he went somewhere, you get told where.
If he did not, he went nowhere.
Unless you were affected as per 3172

Have you already confirmed non-receipt?

[PeregrineV]

Is there a part where the Rogue crew tells us the good they accomplished last night?

It must be with the part where you tell us in what universe your Aeronaut read makes sense. :3

Show me my Aeronaut read and we can discuss it.

Here you go.

With aero, it's partly that he caught up and then disappeared, partly zefiend's catchup which I find very scummy, and partly trusting mastin.

He was replaced, so there is that.
I totally think Mastina is scum.
Aero's Pine interactions don't look like scum with scum. Aero should be neutral or hostile, not questioning or friendly. (1075-1076-1118-1119)

Yeah, I don't think zefend is scummy.

Which part are you questioning?

[PeregrineV]

nevermind...ignore the above.
I just got a message from the god, that I love.

Infinity targeted the Thinker
so the one shot back up, is apparently gone down the sink-er.

Wasn't thinker dead last night?

[PeregrineV]

the back up for this game targets the dead.
I guess old infinity wanted a vig, because he was seeing red(?)

I see his vote reset thing, but dead pepole don't have votes on them.

[PeregrineV]

curious though TWIE and Pere,
why havent you asked Heart to confirm this information up in here?

Why would I think you are lying?

And I would expect him to counterclaim if needed.

[PeregrineV]

The problem is, by this point he's got roughly a 50/50 shot to be scum by PoE.

I see you have scumreads on: mastina, one of AJ/molla, and presumably, TWIE.
How were these 50/50 odds for Peregrine calculated?

mastina, BBmolla, AJ, TWIE, Titus, Peregrine

3/6 = 50/50

Don't have a scumread on TWIE.

So three of

mastina
BBmolla
AJ
TWIE
Titus
Peregrine

are scum?

[PeregrineV]

the back up for this game targets the dead.
I guess old infinity wanted a vig, because he was seeing red(?)

I see his vote reset thing, but dead pepole don't have votes on them.

Sorry if I make you sleepy, but confirming your ongoing results is part of the deal when you claim.

So.......

[PeregrineV]

the back up for this game targets the dead.
I guess old infinity wanted a vig, because he was seeing red(?)

I see his vote reset thing, but dead pepole don't have votes on them.

Sorry if I make you sleepy, but confirming your ongoing results is part of the deal when you claim.

So.......

votes have nothing to do with it.
you dont understand the role and I dont give a shit.

Hmmm.

You saw infinity target a dead player.
Infinity role PM says he resets votes.
Votes cannot exist on a dead player.
I give a shit, so help me understand.

[PeregrineV]

Anonymous Message

PeregrineV is

Antoc Merrick

,

Blue One

Vanilla Townie

. He is aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Yes.

[PeregrineV]

Does anyone with flavor knowledge know anything about the anonymous message?

I think those types of things are always WIFOM involved. It could be scum framing Pere. Or even if Pere is scum, why choose to inno yourself instead of guilty a non-clear?

Though I will say that every other message I've seen like that has been "mod-confirmed", so this one is rather suspicious. I wanna hear from Pere before I jump to any conclusions.

It's my role PM. Like verbatim.

[PeregrineV]

also just throwing this out there as a point of note.
if Heartless is scum, he probably gave a

one shot backup

to a buddy to sink this boat.

that buddy would have used the ability last night
to get a

vig power

to use tonight, with much delight.

nevermind...ignore the above.
I just got a message from the god, that I love.

Infinity targeted the Thinker
so the one shot back up,

is apparently gone down the sink-er.

the back up for this game targets the dead.

I guess old infinity wanted a vig, because he was seeing red(?)

Ahh, got it.

[PeregrineV]

PV, are you just not going to address

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2017-02-28 00:26:20)!

Anonymous Message

PeregrineV is

Antoc Merrick

,

Blue One

Vanilla Townie

. He is aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

this thing that happened in your absence?

It's my role PM.

[PeregrineV]

PV.

you're killing me man.

Nah. Still trying to decide to. I know you can town it up when needed, so if not now, when do you think its needed?

[PeregrineV]

Well, since I'm outted, I'm just going to come out and say it.

Why was Infinity killed when he was like the weakest of all the hard town reads? you could talk to him for 3 pages and get him to change his read on someone. Why kill him over someone like Heartless or Drunken?

[PeregrineV]

but you werent responsible for posting it right?

No. But it's not my entire PM, since nothing below picture.

[PeregrineV]

Well, since I'm outted, I'm just going to come out and say it.

Why was Infinity killed when he was like the weakest of all the hard town reads? you could talk to him for 3 pages and get him to change his read on someone. Why kill him over someone like Heartless or Drunken?

Feel free to answer.

[PeregrineV]

Well, since I'm outted

this is a very odd way of phrasing us knowing your flavor.

Not really. Could have been WIFOM that I was a PR. Now there's not.

[PeregrineV]

Well, since I'm outted, I'm just going to come out and say it.

Why was Infinity killed when he was like the weakest of all the hard town reads? you could talk to him for 3 pages and get him to change his read on someone. Why kill him over someone like Heartless or Drunken?

Feel free to answer.

So you could make this exact insinuation.

What am I insinuating? Just so we are on the same page.

[PeregrineV]

You're also now conveniently off the hook for talking about your zefiend read. I didn't forget that.

Actually I think I did-

Is there a part where the Rogue crew tells us the good they accomplished last night?

It must be with the part where you tell us in what universe your Aeronaut read makes sense. :3

Show me my Aeronaut read and we can discuss it.

Here you go.

With aero, it's partly that he caught up and then disappeared, partly zefiend's catchup which I find very scummy, and partly trusting mastin.

He was replaced, so there is that.
I totally think Mastina is scum.
Aero's Pine interactions don't look like scum with scum. Aero should be neutral or hostile, not questioning or friendly. (1075-1076-1118-1119)

Yeah, I don't think zefend is scummy.

Which part are you questioning?

[PeregrineV]

Which part are you questioning?

The part where you townread Aeronaut based on the four posts you linked.

Is this it? There is no question.

[PeregrineV]

Well, since I'm outted

this is a very odd way of phrasing us knowing your flavor.

Not really. Could have been WIFOM that I was a PR. Now there's not.

...how do you figure that us knowing your flavor makes it so you couldnt be a PR?

Because it says Vanilla Town?

[PeregrineV]

Aero's Pine interactions don't look like scum with scum. Aero should be neutral or hostile, not questioning or friendly. (1075-1076-1118-1119)

Sure, I'll go ahead and try to prove a negative instead of you trying to make a case about why he IS scum.

This game is boring. How dare you people make Star Wars boring!

Not really liking LUV, and I completely do not buy Drunken Piper's post restriction. It looks a LOT like something fabricated to excuse minimal content.

Drunken Piper, please discuss your restriction, or confirm that you're just dicking around.

VOTE: Drunken Piper

Pine

This seems like a post that's.... out of place? Like, it would have made more sense to be hounding people about their post restriction on page 5 or so, and not now when there's a lot more to work with.

This post, if Aero is scum, is calling out his scumbuddy in a manner that does not allow him to bus easily, because it's not very aggressive, and does not make Pine look more town, because it's not requesting exposition.

well his title is "couplet typer" so i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this is a posting gimmick

Oh. That does explain things.

That's irritating.

VOTE: LUV

LUV is mostly a gut read. It's based on a broad reading of their ISO, nothing specific. Sorry, it's a boring game, people are playing things close to the vest, and Titus has been reasonable lately.

I feel as if you could do things to make it not-boring though.

Okay, serious answer - everything you're doing seems calculated to be safe and inoffensive. Like you're trying not to be noticed, like you're trying not to ruffle feathers. Not one thing individually says that, but your vote patterns and calm but unproductive attitude does.

Alright, I do agree with this assesment of LUV; at the same time, I feel like there are more people that this could apply to.

Scum interaction if Aero were scum would be to attack the read, or agree/sheep the read, not call them out for a completely different part of the post.

In addition, scum doesn't bother with the second half of the post. This is all like 600 posts later, so Aero is reading through looking for things that ping him. If he is scum, he doesn't spend time on his buddy and then ever so weakly agree with him.
Look at 1122, he is still 600 posts behind. He's trying to read the game.

Okay no, seriously. How did you judge RVS votes as town/scum?

You'd be surprised at what you can judge from RVS.

Same here. No reason to create an associative with a scumbuddy without townreading or bussing them. He is commenting on stuff that interests him.

Now having said that, if mastina's going to try to throw out hard townreads and scumreads for shit said in RVS, then that's bs; but as far as first impressions and starting reads go, rvs can be pretty helpful.

Clarifying his previous stance. This one is less about Pine, but include Mastina, who I more strongly scumread when I first read through.

[PeregrineV]

Which part are you questioning?

The part where you townread Aeronaut based on the four posts you linked.

Is this it? There is no question.

if u weren't being intentionally obtuse, this is where u explain in more detail why the interactions made aero town.

So, now you can go ahead and explain why Aero and zefend are scum.

[PeregrineV]

someone hasn't been reading the thread

You have 365 posts.

[PeregrineV]

(As DP slept off his last tear, conversation exploded. but he saw this that caught his eye, he will do the other catch up later)

I believe Heartless already asked this question, but

@DrunkenPiper

: if you tracked Pine to nacho N1, wouldn't you also have tracked him to BBmolla? If you didn't, isn't that confirmation that BBmolla is lying about being vanillaized? I don't know how Firebringer would resolve that but maybe you should ask him.

you can do this math, if that was the case,
then I wouldnt be talking about BBmolla in this time and place.

hmm, think hard new guy, think hard, try not to use any aids.
and you will probably figure out that I am a...............

I missed this, but you DID track Pine to BBMOlla night1, correct?

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: zefiend

scum catch up

Why?

bc you use a ton of words to say not very much and the reads themselves are so cookie cutter and meh

talk about this more when not on a phone

Read his catchup again, still don'tt think it's scummy.

Where did you "talk about it more"? I cant find it.

[PeregrineV]

3359 can p much be summed up as "he doesn't fit inside a hilariously narrow model of what scum would do, ergo town"

It can be summed up as "Aero sure as shit isn't treating Pine like a scumbuddy." therefore probably not scumbuddies.

[PeregrineV]

null line ---> [^SirCakez^, Titus, Indigo,

Aeronaut

, Klingoncelt, Pine-A-Tonics]

null line ---> [Titus, TWIE,

Aeronaut

]

Infinity, Nacho, Desperado, and

Aeronaut

are my choices.

Aeronaut's catch ups still look town to me. He's reacting to mostly important things and the commentary does suggest a genuine reads development.

I mean yeah you started town reading him but he was obviously null from 441-1057. I know this is a star wars game but Jedi mind tricks won't work on me. So you are going to have to EXPLAIN why Aero is one of your top 4 town reads instead of just waving your hand and acting like "his catchups are town" is valid.

You don't have to keep up the authoritative act just because you're embarrassed by getting facts wrong. Aero was null back on 441 because he hadn't posted anything of substance and he was on V/LA.

Since I posted last Sunday, Aero posted his catchup. I read it and thought he were town and said so in the posts around 1234.

Do you want me to list out the points that he mentioned that I thought were town? Very well:

• His point about PrettyPrincess not trying to game solve (Post 836)
  
• His point about Klingon not trying to game solve (Post 836)
  
• His point about LUV's SirCakez vote being terrible (Post 838)
  
• His response and analysis of my post to SirCakez (Post 838)
  
• Questions to Infinity in Post 838 and Post 1070.
  
• His point about Pine in Post 1075.
  
• His point about Klingon in Post 1120.

-TTH

Hi guys!
Anti and I finally got our shit together and had a real conversation about this game.

We are in agreement that Nero Cain, Drunken Piper, Infinity, and AJ are all likely town.
I'm not exactly sure if I can trust mastina. However, Antihero specifically he asked me to have faith in his mastina read so that's exactly what I'm going to do.
I am not affording him the same trust on the Titus read because I think he gives her too much benefit of the doubt and gives in to AtE rather easily. I haven't seen any reason to think she's town yet and her zefiend defense is mildly concerning to me.

Antihero holds fast to his BBMolla townread based on setup speculation and I know that's his forte so I'm trying not to second guess it too much. But I see some major red flags in Molla's play. The most recent:

sircakez the honest truth is I am beyond terrible at mafia now. I am the worst player I've ever seen.

the only fact I know is I'm town and I don't particularly think you are so your lynch is better than mine.

I don't know about anybody else, but if scum were scared enough of me to vanillaize me on Night 1 I would feel fucking fantastic. I would think someone vanillaized would be emboldened to push their reads even

more

but Molla's slinking around like a dog in a thunderstorm. I don't get it. The attitude doesn't make sense to me.

Antihero has a townread on TWIE, citing the one interaction with Pine in the Post 1565 region. He's enigmatic and null to me but Anti's instincts are good enough that I'll just go with that for now.

Peregrine troubles me. LUV was already a troublesome slot for me and PV himself has yet to post something cogent or convincingly town.

In particular, his read on the Aero slot bothers me:

With aero, it's partly that he caught up and then disappeared, partly zefiend's catchup which I find very scummy, and partly trusting mastin.

He was replaced, so there is that.
I totally think Mastina is scum.
Aero's Pine interactions don't look like scum with scum. Aero should be neutral or hostile, not questioning or friendly. (1075-1076-1118-1119)

If you follow all the links provided, the interactions look pretty damn neutral to me. I suppose you could say the banter about mastina's RVS reads in 1118 and 1119 could be "friendly" if you tilt your head and look at it in just the right lighting, but it's a thready argument. There are other posts here and there that give me the heebie-jeebies but the zefiend defense is probably the most unsettling thing for me.

I'm tired so I'm stopping now. Zefiend and SirCakez tomorrow.

-TTH

Yeah, so you can also explain this while you are at it.

[PeregrineV]

will hammer if needed
PV want to say anything else smart or seeded?

I'll catch up, and say my piece.

If I'm still at L-1, I can hammer myself, since we aren't going to be scumhunting, I'm sure as hell not being endgamed because my role PM was posted in the thread and I WAS LYNCHED ANYWAY.

[PeregrineV]

no character ability claim huh....

No.

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, so you can also explain this while you are at it.

Pine flipped between those two posts.

Pine flips 1767

what's your read on aeronaut?

2103- You vote zefend (Aero)

I find your "thought processes" linking Aero to Pine to not exist. You spent time (1341) towncasing the slot, but suddenly that means shit and you magically connect Pine to Aero. But no one else to Pine.

And when you went through Pine iso (1857), Aero never gets mentioned.

So, it really sounds like you are making shit up.

[PeregrineV]

if he's scum he's going to have to do stuff eventually regardless of what happens in the next couple hours.

a non-pv lynch just isn't happening at this point. there's really no sense in prolonging this

Rush it faster.

Vote: Heartless

[PeregrineV]

That's also been a read Anti's talked me over to his side on.
But I guess you have to force "contradictions" where you can.

If no one else is going to call you out, that's on them.

[PeregrineV]

So someone chose to post your Role in the game for everyone to see … how do you think they came across those salient details?

Gotcha MoI!!

[PeregrineV]

ppl, really this is not brain surgery. the anonymous message is a scum gambit that just didn't happen to work

Actually, since you are apparently safe from the nightkill, you should do that thing where you offer to lynch yourself when I flip town.

[PeregrineV]

The immediate and obvious answer is "because one of us is scum." You could go with the less OMGUS-y "because their reads are bad and they'll be counted on to push mislynches" angle, but they both serve the function of discrediting our reads.

Your reads are TheThinker = scum
Pine caught by a guilty
Cake=scum
me=scum

Your organic reads are pretty much 100% wrong. So, I don't need to discredit them, really.

[PeregrineV]

Now let's get to the Aero post:

This post, if Aero is scum, is calling out his scumbuddy in a manner that does not allow him to bus easily, because it's not very aggressive, and does not make Pine look more town, because it's not requesting exposition.

What? That's preposterous. What about this post would prevent Aero from jumping on Pine late-wagon if he needed to? It wouldn't. In fact, it would make the bus look more convincing ("Look, I wasn't just cutting my losses, I was building on previous suspicion.")
For context, Antihero voted Pine on the previous page and at that point Pine was a 3-man wagon. It would make perfect sense for Aero!scum to call Pine scum for distancing purposes but not give the wagon any momentum by actually voting.

Scum interaction if Aero were scum would be to attack the read, or agree/sheep the read, not call them out for a completely different part of the post.

"Call them out" is a

very

generous assessment of what Aero did in Post 1076. It's a gentle poke at best. It's also hard to argue the impact of the "call out" when mastina already got on Pine's case for the "boring" line in Post 520.

In addition, scum doesn't bother with the second half of the post. This is all like 600 posts later, so Aero is reading through looking for things that ping him. If he is scum, he doesn't spend time on his buddy and then ever so weakly agree with him.

Why not? I don't get your point or why that would be so unlikely.

Same here. No reason to create an associative with a scumbuddy without townreading or bussing them. He is commenting on stuff that interests him.

The assertion that scum can't engage in idle musings about each other's posting is patently absurd. And you've never seen scum put each other in the "null read" section on their reads lists? "Either bussing or townreading" isn't a scum model that holds up to any amount of thought. Furthermore I don't think it would occur to anyone to think that exchange was particularly telling or "associative" as you're calling it. The third sentence may or may not be true, but is not alignment indicative.

Clarifying his previous stance. This one is less about Pine, but include Mastina, who I more strongly scumread when I first read through.

Clarifying his previous stance

to subtly discredit mastina's read

. Aero is going out of his way to point out mastina

can't

justify a

hard

scumread on Pine with just that kind of RVS logic.
Given that Pine was scum, that doesn't sound particularly town to me. That sounds like a soft defense.

Are you trying to argue that I'm wrong in my interpretation, or that the Aero interaction with Pine makes him scum? Because it apparently did not become your opinion that Aero/Pine scumteam until I stated my opinion that it did not.

[PeregrineV]

Which one of these is not like the others? The black text instead of white -- I could understand. But the coloring of "Blue One" blue seems like a mistake, trying to make the role seem more legit. However, "Blue Four" is not colored in actual PMs. You said that it was your role PM, verbatim. If you actually looked at your role PM (or just looked at the dead PMs...) you wouldn't format it like that unless you were faking it.

VOTE: Peregrine

You forget that the Anonymous Message also did not Welcome! me, like in all your quotes.

[PeregrineV]

It's quoted right on the page of this post. There was also a lengthy discussion between Anti, zefiend, Infinity, and Titus (among others) where zefiend's reads post and progression on his mastina read were central issues.
You couldn't have really missed all of that if you even took a cursory look at posts in the 90s page range and you're putting a lot more effort into mouthing off than actually attempting to understand the zefiend read.

No it's not. Just link the post like a normal forum mafia player. Half of us care and will doublecheck.

I saw where you tried to say his catchup sucked. I disagree, even if I didn't agree with his reads, he explained how he reached them.

[PeregrineV]

First, there's the simple fact that the two posts were made under fundamentally different conditions. Post 1341 was made on Day 1, before any flips, and Post 3075 was made on Day 3, after Pine had already flipped scum. That changes the lens I view the posts through. Sure Aero's anti-Pine point in Post 1075 was a fair one, but was there any semblance of a concerted Pine push or a vote on Pine when it mattered? No.

When did it matter? You and Aero pushed Pine exactly equally. Except maybe Aero pushed him more than you. You voted him with Drunk's guilty.

In day1, you didn't like his posts, voted him once, then decided he was town:

The only one I would keep in the null tier is TWIE. I think Titus is mildly town for her most recent push on Infinity. While I don't agree with the points that Infinity's been especially "agreeable" or "buddying," the push itself feels genuine from posts like Post 1201 and Post 1209. Keeping in mind that catchups are often look "town" given the poster's advantage of doing everything after-the-fact, Aeronaut's catch ups still look town to me. He's reacting to mostly important things and the commentary does suggest a genuine reads development.

I also don't think Pine-A-Tonics has a good chance of being scum. The Gin head has already had some good posts that Infinity's already picked up on and pointed out. I also happened to take a look at the Hunger Games thread where both heads were scum. Given that baseline of scum activity, I'm a bit doubtful both these heads would sit on their asses, especially when getting voted up. I think the apathy's a little more likely to be town than not here.

-TTH

Then there's the other set of eyes and brain on this game who is on record in this thread as having doubts about the Aero slot in Post 1613 and he's since acquired a strong scumread on the second occupant of the slot, zefiend. In our conversations about this game, he repeatedly insisted the zefiend slot was scum for the same reasons he's giving in this game thread. Since I respect him and value his opinion, I re-evaluated my initial Aeronaut read and realized it might not have been accurate. These kinds of things happen in a functional and healthy hydra.

Nah, I counted that, you voted him once day1.

Looking at Zefiend's catcup post:

OK, read the whole game. I have a lot of conflicting thoughts about many players, but at this point I am pretty confident that

@mastina

and

@Heartless

are town, so I would appreciate some help sorting through these thoughts and maybe pointing out things I missed.

I like

@Nero Cain

's points about Titus and I feel a lot of players are sleeping on her this game. However I do not like Nero's thoughts on mastina because his scumlean(?) read on her seems poorly or under-developed. I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

However, I also like

@Titus

' issues with Infinity. I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning. His read on mastina also feels unnatural, propelled in part by a combination of paranoia and the general tendency of others (re: Nero & Heartless (at times)) to pressure her. On the other hand, I dislike the fact that Titus' scope and breadth of other players in the game is quite narrow. I would feel more comfortable with the slot if she attempted to engage others with more vigor.

I initially liked

@Infinity

's push to get the game rolling, so-to-speak, and that has always been a personal town-tell I use. I cannot definitively point to anything Infinity has pushed or pressured organically, but at the same time, he does ask beneficial questions and probe efficiently when things are "happening" in the thread. I feel uneasy about this slot, but not necessarily worried. Infinity, do you feel that Titus' game-long push on you is a non-issue?

I believe Heartless already asked this question, but

@DrunkenPiper

: if you tracked Pine to nacho N1, wouldn't you also have tracked him to BBmolla? If you didn't, isn't that confirmation that BBmolla is lying about being vanillaized? I don't know how Firebringer would resolve that but maybe you should ask him.

@SirCakez

: You asked me to specifically look at the Pine interactions. I noticed, while reading D1, that you continually regarded the Pine-wagon as a poor lynch. You and I both know that I have been burned by reading too heavily into something like that before (re: College Mafia, where you soft-defended scum on D1). The key difference this game, however, is that the scum in question has flipped earlier than 3-way LYLO, yet nobody else seems to be calling attention to these associations (besides Infinity's VCA). What exactly were you hoping I gleaned from analyzing the Pine interactions?

The LUV/Peregrine slot is actually pretty null for me and hopefully Peregrine will contribute more.

I am comfortable sheeping mastina on BBmolla -- his content is unsatisfactory, mastina pointed out a key logical fallacy (re: SirCakez--Aj the Epic D1 voting patterns) that seemed to get buried, and the gambit actually seems quite plausible.

I would also lynch Aj toDay for a collection of pinging behavior I recall from my reread. I would have to dig deeper and review to shore up that scumread, but for now I just wanted to get my initial thoughts out there.

It sure look's like he's reacting to mostly important things and the commentary does suggest a genuine reads development.

[PeregrineV]

Are we sure this isn't a scum plot to get Pv lynched? Scum Rolecop + Scum Messenger?

Why would my PM being posted result in my lynch, that's r-

Yeah, I see what you mean now.

[PeregrineV]

will hammer if needed
PV want to say anything else smart or seeded?

Would like to know if you tracked Pine to Molla. I can't find where you said "Yes, Yes". Because that does rhyme.

[PeregrineV]

unvote

don't want PV to self hammer. I'm forcing MOI to read the rest of the game.

That's OK. If I log in next time and I'm at L-1, I'll hammer. There's no point in posting and being ignored.

[PeregrineV]

if he's scum he's going to have to do stuff eventually regardless of what happens in the next couple hours.

a non-pv lynch just isn't happening at this point. there's really no sense in prolonging this

Yes, you idiots, no point in not lynching me!!

Day 4 ends in

10 days, 6 hours, 11 minutes!

[PeregrineV]

i'll take that action

if u self hammer

lol, no you won't!

[PeregrineV]

but u won't do that.

nor will u claim.

bc ur the messenger.

Ok.

[PeregrineV]

i have yet to hear a denial

Already said I'm not claiming. I have no info to add to the game anyway, and anything I say just to not be lycnhed would be stupid, because nobody will bother listening anyway.

[PeregrineV]

oh boy this claim dodging

let me go get that dgb quote real quick

Go quote where you did all the things you claimed.

[PeregrineV]

Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.

Reading is tech.

[PeregrineV]

he didn't

claim

yeah... that's what i thought.

No, you were actually told 6(?) times that I wasn't claiming.

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, that's what I thought....

[PeregrineV]

molla, nero, twie, dp. you know what needs to be done

pv you can have the last word today

So your really not going to respond to anything?

[PeregrineV]

i mean... if tth wants to argue w scum that's her time to waste

i'm not

Except I'm not scum.

[PeregrineV]

Spoiler: BBMolla Role PM

Welcome! You are

K-2SO

, Droid ,

Jack of all Trades

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

A reprogrammed imperial droid, you now serve the Rebel Alliance in all matters they need of you, usually fighting behind the lines serving to infiltrate and gather information for the rebellion.

Abilities:

Vote - You can vote during the day.
1 Shot Redirector-At night you can redirect the actions of a player to another selected target.
1 Shot Deflector-At night you can deflect all actions targeting a player to instead target another selected target.
1 Shot Rolestopper- At night you can stop all night actions from affecting another player, this will not roleblock the selected player.[/center]

Character Special Ability

memory banks

:
Select a player, if they die at any point you will gain a permanent chat with them instead of them joining the dead thread. Once a player is selected you cannot switch.[/center]

Win Condition:
You win when the Empire has been eliminated.

That was the original role pm, he would have normally flipped as being a VT.

TheWayItEnds Has Been Endgamed!

Spoiler: TWIE ROLE PM

v

Welcome! You are

Bail Organa

, a Rebel Senator

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Serving as a senator for the republic before becoming part of the empire you are one of the founders of the alliance and architects for the rebellion.

Abilities:

Vote - You can vote during the day.[/center]

Character Special Ability

I called you here

:
You can message mod to allow the thread to be open for the night.
You can only use this once.[/center]

Win Condition:
You win when the Empire has been eliminated.

Spoiler: Mastina ROLE PM

Welcome! You are

Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin

, a

Encryptor

. You are aligned with the

Empire

.

Commanding the Death Star itself, you are have presented yourself everything that represents the Empire, strength, stability, and order. You will not the rebels slip away from you.

Abilities:

Imperial kill - You share a factional kill with the other Imperials.
Encyrptor-As long as you are alive the Empire has constant communication.
Battlecruiser - You and the rest of the Imperials can meet [HERE] to discuss your plans out of earshot of the Rebels.
Vote - You can vote during the day.

Character Special Ability

Our moment of triumph

:
Allow a dead scum teammate to rejoin the scum chat for a day/night
Can only be used once.

Win Condition:
You win when the Rebels have been eliminated or nothing can stop this from happening and at least one Imperial is alive.

[/center]

The Scum Team of Mastina, Zefiend, MagnaofIllusion and Pine-A-Tonics Have Won!

Actions: [Night 1]
Drunken Piper targets Pine-A-Tonics with Gunsmith [Guilty Result]
Heartless gives Strongman to Desperado [Success]
Aj The Epic jail keeps SirCakez [Success]
Pine-A-Tonics vanalizes BBmolla [Success; Poor BBMolla]
Aeronaut goes to kill Nachomamma8 [Success]

Personal Note:
Klingoncelt now has character ability to make someone hated.

Actions: [Night 2]
Titus goes to Kill Desperado [Success]
Drunken Piper tracks SirCakez [Success]
Aj the Epic Jail keeps SirCakez [Success]
Heartless gives Backup to Infinity 324 [Success]
Desperado uses Strongman vigilante to Kill Klingoncelt [Success]

Personal note:
People sure do love targeting sircakezs

Actions: [Night 3]
Aj the Epic Jailkeeps PeregrineV [Success]
Mastin goes to kill Infinity 324 [Success]
Infinity 324 goes to get vig shot [Success but died]
Drunken Piper tracks Infinity 324 [Success]
Heartless gives Voyeur to Nero Cain [Success]

Actions: [Night 4]
TWIE opens chat for the night [Success]
Nero Cain uses Voyuer on Heartless [Success][Result: Protective]
Aj the Epic jail keeps Heartless [Success]
Magna goes to kill on Drunken Piper [Success]
Drunken Piper watches Heartless [Success][Sees Nero Cain and Aj the Epic visiting]

Actions: [Night 5]
Mastina goes to kill Nero Cain [Success]
Aj the Epic jail keeps Heartless [Success]
Actions: [Night 6]
Aj the Epic jail keeps Heartless [Success]
Mastina goes to kill Aj the Epic [Success]

Actions: [Night 7]
Mastina goes to kill Heartless [Success]

*sigh*

[PeregrineV]

@Fire- still a fun game, thanks for running and letting me play!!

I think I like the VTs having a power, even if it varied. Kind of makes it a role madness game but not too crazy.

Liked the Rogue Crew idea, but I'm always suspicious of those, since I think they would be hard to balance.

[PeregrineV]

r u sighing at yourself?

i hope so.

No more so than normal.

It took the entire living scumteam to lynch me, so I was doing something right.

You'll state that I should have claimed, but since the reality is my claim would have no effect on my lynch, I'll just disagree with that idea, and you'll just disagree with me.

You'll say I played badly, and you had 90-100% of the scumteam figured out, and that if the rest of town had been moderately skilled, town would have won.

Or some variation of the above.

Am I right?

[PeregrineV]

i genuinely wish you had just claimed your ability pv.

Why? It would not have changed anything.

[PeregrineV]

also anti im genuinely shocked that aj didnt update that last will.

like.

what.

Last will is so awesome for investigative roles to really get info out there. I think it will take time to figure out how to best utilize it in future games, since it's not something we had access to much before.

[PeregrineV]

Am I right?

no, and if that's what you get out of my posts i'll kindly invite you to avoid me in future games and i'll return the favor

i'll say that you shouldn't have posted info and tried to make it look like mod info. there wasn't a plausible town reason for it. think it's just me? it wasn't. ppl were either thinking you were scum gambiting or scum sent the message to set you up. maybe twie was the only person who didn't think the mod messenger was scum.

I actually have not read your post-game posts. I'll go read them with high expectations.

The message I sent would be posted by the mod no matter what. There is not very much I need the mod to say that I couldn't just post. However, I was able to effectively and legally post my role PM, but it had to be through the mod.

I'm willing to listen to alternative information I *should of* had Fire post.....